Charlie to possibly sell Echostar? [Archive]

KeithLINY

01-20-03, 11:13 PM

Dow Jones Business News

http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030121/0102000027_1.html

Ergen May Sell EchoStar to Murdoch or Liberty Media
Tuesday January 21, 1:02 am ET

NEW YORK -- EchoStar Communications Corp. (NasdaqNM:DISH - News) Chairman Charles Ergen, recently blocked by federal regulators from acquiring his main rival in the U.S. satellite-television market, has been talking with long-standing adversary Rupert Murdoch as well as Liberty Media Corp. about possibly selling his company, industry officials familiar with the contacts told The Wall Street Journal.
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There haven't been any formal negotiations, Mr. Ergen isn't commenting on his motives and it isn't clear what response these preliminary feelers have sparked. EchoStar currently has a market capitalization of $12.4 billion and debt of about $5.7 billion.

The surprising twist could indicate that the EchoStar chief is worried about his long-term ability to compete against players with deeper pockets, better access to programming and world-wide reach. He tried to attain that last year with an $18 billion bid for Hughes Electronics Corp. (GMH) and its DirecTV satellite unit but was shot down by federal regulators on antitrust grounds. Mr. Murdoch is now interested in acquiring DirecTV as part of his U.S. expansion plans.

People familiar with the matter say Mr. Ergen also had a similar contact with executives of Liberty Media, controlled by cable-TV mogul John Malone.

A headstrong entrepreneur, Mr. Ergen built EchoStar's Dish Network into the country's second-largest direct-to-home satellite service with eight million subscribers, compared with 11.2 million U.S subscribers for DirecTV.

For years, he has decried accelerating consolidation among cable-TV providers and global media companies. But he now appears to have at least opened the door to joining that trend.

EchoStar didn't dispute that it has been engaged in discussions with the pair of media powerhouses, but it isn't clear which side made the overture. In a brief statement, EchoStar said it "continues to focus its efforts on maintaining its leadership position in the cable and satellite industry. Obviously our board of directors would be required to consider any firm proposal that would benefit our shareholders." A company spokesman said Mr. Ergen wasn't available for comment.

Spokesmen for Mr. Murdoch's News Corp. and Liberty Media also declined to comment.

Wall Street Journal Staff Reporters Andy Pasztor, John Lippman and Martin Peers contributed to this article.

James_F

01-20-03, 11:29 PM

I think we'll see both DBS providers sold. They ain't going to get more valuable. Eventually Digital Cable will eat away at DBS and I think both realize that its better to sell when you are on top before you are forced out of cities. Heck maybe Liberty or News Corp can do what Echostar and GM couldn't, merge the systems together.

Bob Haller

01-21-03, 04:01 AM

Well its sad, but after finally watching the chuck chat my feeling was that he wasnt the Charlie of a couple years ago. He is different. Like I asked before, he or someone close ill? Charlie depressed?

You cant blame him for cashing it in...

One of the wealthiest men in the world. Why not relax and enjoy life. Travel? When your that rich why not take advantage of it?

Does he truly think DBS cant survive without the merger?

Or is he trying t screw up the D sale?:)

Play Murdock along for a year or more? Meanwhile D starts looking for a differnt buyer thebn sells. Charlie decides no sale putting it to murdock once again........:):)

Because of the clear lack of management invcolvement of late I think its a legit sale attempt. Nop doubt I will NOT be hearing from any of my one time sources since my rantimng opf late on the DP mess. Oh well time wil;l answer all of this....

Steve Mehs

01-21-03, 04:42 AM

Wow, when this is all said and done DBS may be totally different then it is now. I wonder if Charlie has been pondering this for a while or in light of the failed merger or what.

John Corn

01-21-03, 04:52 AM

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Here's another article from Forbes:

EchoStar in talks with Murdoch, Liberty Media -WSJ

NEW YORK, Jan 21 - EchoStar Communications Corp. is in talks to sell itself to Rupert Murdoch or Liberty Media Corp., the Wall Street Journal reported on Tuesday.

Citing industry officials familiar with the contacts, the newspaper said EchoStar Chairman Charles Ergen, recently blocked by federal regulators from acquiring Hughes Electronics Corp. (nyse: GMH - news - people) and its DirecTV satellite unit, has been talking with Murdoch's News Corp. <NCP.AX> and Liberty Media but there have not been any formal negotiations.

Officials of Liberty Media, EchoStar, and News Corp, in New York, were not immediately available for comment.

Ergen is not commenting on his motives and it is not clear what response these preliminary feelers have sparked, according to the report.

Rest of the story (http://www.forbes.com/newswire/2003/01/21/rtr852536.html):

John Corn

01-21-03, 05:03 AM

Why is Charlie trying to take the most viable buyer away from DirecTV?..........:confused:

tres

01-21-03, 05:23 AM

I hope the new owners add trio, goodlife, bet-jazz, b-mania tv, vh1-country, and HBO-zone.

Nipper the Dog

01-21-03, 06:03 AM

GM is trying to sell Hughes & DirecTV to GE

Frapp

01-21-03, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by raj2001
Yup I am not joking here. I just heard on WCBS Radio 880 (New York) that Charlie Ergen is in talks to sell Echostar.

And you would not guess who he is talking to - Rupert Murdoch (News Corp.) and John Mallone (Liberty Media), who were previously rumored to be most likely trying to buy GM Hughes DirecTV. I could not believe it myself, and this is probably why DISH subscribers have been seeing the strange behavior of late.

Keep your ears peeled tomorrow to the stock market reports, folks. I am still in disbelief here.

YES, YES, YES, YES, YES ..................... HAAAAAAAAAA !!!!

I have remarked for over the last year that Echostar would either go bankrupt or be forced to sell/merge to another entity once the merger was rejected :hurah: :dance: :cool:

But everyone said, OH NO Frapp, you are wrong :lol:

Yes, Frapp-E hits another one on the mark ;)

Boy am I glad...... actually, VERY GLAD I am no longer a dealer for either company. You dealer guys here stand to be murdered financially .. Residuals will be Poof .. Gone ... Remember Primestar and what they did to dealers when they were sold :shrug:

Ok ... I`m now going back to normal :hi:

James_F

01-21-03, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by Frapp
But everyone said, OH NO Frapp, you are wrong :lol:

Frapp, you are just a class guy! :lol:

Frapp

01-21-03, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by James_F

Frapp, you are just a class guy! :lol:

WEll, I try, I try ;)

Scott Greczkowski

01-21-03, 08:38 AM

This news does not surprise me, in fact I mentioned last month I would not be surprised if this happened.

From where I sit Charlie has lost his spark, to move to sell the company may indeed be best for the company. Although I cringe thinking about HDTV if Rupert gets his hands on the company.

I think the Merger was Charlie's last step to take the company into the 21st century, I believe Charlie did indeed realize that without a merger that DBS would have a rocky future. As we are seeing now, DBS will have a very hard time in the future when your local broadcasters switch over to Digital signals (and many of them in HDTV)

Charlie's attitude and demeanor as of late has not been the Charlie of old, take a look at the recent Charlie Chats and you will notice that Charlie is not the Charlie of old.

It's sad in a way when a Charlie Chat is held and people call up and say when are you going to add a new channel, and the reply will be that there is not enough bandwidth to add anymore channels, yet at the same time they added NBA, NHL and CNBC World without having a bandwidth problem, so Charlie explanations as of late have not added up.

I am going to make a prediction, Satellite TV WILL Change a few years from now the satellite service you get will not be the service you have now. I predict that instead of DBS being a competitor to cable it will be a companion to cable.

I believe that Cable while carrying many HDTV Channels will offer its customers down converted HDTV in Analog format so that everyone will not need to buy new HDTV's, satellite on the other hand will carry the Cable Channels such as USA, TNN, Lifetime in HD. If you have an HDTV and want the HD Channels it would not surprise me to have the Cable Company install a DBS Dish on your house.

I also see C Band (The Big Dishes) coming back into style so that those who wish to choose what they can get can indeed have choice.

Charlie was indeed a pioneer and has built a great company, but that great company as of late has been showing cracks in its foundation. It's time for Charlie to ride of into the sunset and let someone else seal the cracks. And if I was Charlie as I rode of into the sunset I would have a big smile on my face and I would be laughing all the way to the bank.

RichW

01-21-03, 08:42 AM

Without the merger, the vision and excitement of DBS is now probably gone for Ergen. Plus it looks like the growth in DBS has levelled off. DirecTV is now projecting a 1 percent growth rate and could actually lose subscribers.

gcutler

01-21-03, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by Frapp
I have remarked for over the last year that Echostar would either go bankrupt or be forced to sell/merge to another entity once the merger was rejected :hurah: :dance: :cool:

You still have not proven in any way that Dish is going to go bankrupt or is being FORCED to Sell.

Charlie may just be tired of it all and wants to cash out. Or perhaps he figures there is little more he can do.

But you have done nothing to prove that dish will go Bankrupt or forced to sell. Why would dish go bankrupt? Even with them giving away equipment if they can get people to stay with AT150 for 12 months, they probably break even. Have you read their stockholder reports? Dosen't sound like the edge of Bankruptcy to me.

Win Joy Jr

01-21-03, 09:11 AM

The key here is that growth has leveled out. Now it is up to running the day-to-day business and earning a profit from a flat number of subs...

My bet, he is looking to move onto something more exciting...

Bob Haller

01-21-03, 09:19 AM

Some folks are GREAT at starting companies but loose interest in long term operations. Perhaps Charlie is one. I just hope its not something else like family illness....

Charlie put DBS on the map, and started LIL. Did you hear his comment on the last chat about when there were few LIL citys up.

Kinda reflective, from someone ready to retire.... comment.

I HOPE he gets the spark back and continues with E. But if he is truly tired of it better to move on than leave it without direction...

I remember Pat Sajak making a comment like that about the desk on his talk show, within a couple nights he was gone....

dlsnyder

01-21-03, 09:29 AM

Maybe Charlie got an offer to take over Ted Turner's restaurant when he becomes president of AOL Time Warner!

tampa8

01-21-03, 09:31 AM

There were a few posts here from myself and others that said the outright rejection of the merger was very shortsighted. In my opinion those that are saying this move is because Charlie didn't get his way are way off base. CNNFN in their discussion pretty much said what I think. Charlie feels that there can be no future for DBS against CABLE with two smaller companies. Period. Does Rupert have the ability to overcome what Charlie feels he cannot? Unknown, but possibly in a different form than what now exists. If DBS is not allowed to carry one HD network feed for each network to everyone, there is no way they can offer HD to each city without some type of technical advancement or aquiring more SAT freqs - or ending duplication with Direct Tv. Then, what about PBS going to HD? Connecticut Public Broadcasting is very close to going digital and HD. Their programming is different from say Boston's WGBH. So they would have to carry each PBS station for every part of the country.

At the end of the day, if DBS does indeed fail, exactly what the FCC and Justice Department said they did not want will be exactly what happens. Less compitition. Cable (God help us) would have little competition. I will say this, I am not a doom and gloom person. Does Charlie have a plan we just cannot see right now? Start a third company and merge two of three?Will Murdoch make DBS stronger and better? Because there is much money to be made I have to think something will take place for the better.

I M Knot

01-21-03, 09:33 AM

Charlie knew that he couldn't compete against a Fox/Liberty owned DTV

Charlie is smart - he read the tea leafs - DBS rise is over - now the DBS descent into a rural signal provider has begun.

Mike123abc

01-21-03, 09:42 AM

If I were a buyer of DBS companies and looked at the US market, I would choose to buy Echostar over Hughes for the following reasons:

1. Capacity aka more transponders. No matter how you add it up 50 CONUS vs 46 CONUS. 35 Wing transponders and 6 on lease at almost no cost (since they have the satellite up there anyways) vs 0 Wing.

2. 8PSK already established. Charlie took the heat of changing the standard, I do not see how DirecTV could do it with so many different manufacturer's boxes.

3. Profitability. It is much easier to take over a company that is making money every quarter.

The only downside of Echostar is fewer subscribers, but you can look at the trends and see that that advantage of DirecTV is quickly disappearing. You could even go for the double hitter of getting E* and R/L DBS at the same time. With R/L DBS satellite one could offer HDTV top 4 networks to the top 30 markets (west ones served off of existing 148 slot) combined with the Super stations in HDTV, it should keep cable at bay for a few years. Dish has empty capacity on 110 right now they could add 15+ HDTV channels.

Maybe someone would buy Dish and finally use the capacity Dish has always had but never seemed to capitalize.

James_F

01-21-03, 09:43 AM

Merger or not there is still bandwidth problems that the owners will need to figure out over the next few years. LIL killed DBS, not the FCC and Justice Department.

gcutler

01-21-03, 10:06 AM

Why are you talking about DBS as if it is dead. Just because charlie is leaving dosen't sound the death knell of DBS. LIL may have killed DBS for the PQ fanatics, but for the average "Give me channels" people it is still the advantage. And how many customers would there be if there were only the top 10-13 markets with Locals. LIL allowed DBS to be considered by the guy who was unhappy with his cable company. Of the 10 people I helped convert to DBS, lack of LIL would have stopped their conversion before it ever started. Now if they stop adding cities to LIL then DBS can get some form for stability on PQ which many will be totally happy with. We all knew Lack of Merger would mean inability to add more Locals, so they should just stay Status Quo and work out as many issues as they can. If they fail at that point, then they fail.

Insider Reporter

01-21-03, 10:07 AM

Charlie is talking separately with John Malone and Rupert Murdoch.

Speculation is that the sale will be to only 1 of these groups due to the cable/tv manufacturer recent deal on built in tuners on digital sets starting in 2004.

With his background in the cable business, John Malone is in favor of converting Dish encryption to Digicipher II. Because the DCII code is 95% the same as the ATSC code, it would very inexpensive to produce DCII conditional access cards for the new digital designs.

Rupert, on the other hand, by virtue of his ownership in NDS would want to convert Dish to DTV type encryption.

In either case, Kudelski is out of the loop. Echostar hardware design and equipment will cease. This would leave Canada's Expressvu and Spain's Via Digital as orphans in the satellite Nagravision DBS business

hikerak

01-21-03, 10:13 AM

Any idea what Rupert Murdoch and John Mallone could bring to E*? Not just what we want them to bring but what they could realistically bring?

Darkman

01-21-03, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by John Corn
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Here's another article from Forbes:

EchoStar in talks with Murdoch, Liberty Media -WSJ

NEW YORK, Jan 21 - EchoStar Communications Corp. is in talks to sell itself to Rupert Murdoch or Liberty Media Corp., the Wall Street Journal reported on Tuesday.

Citing industry officials familiar with the contacts, the newspaper said EchoStar Chairman Charles Ergen, recently blocked by federal regulators from acquiring Hughes Electronics Corp. (nyse: GMH - news - people) and its DirecTV satellite unit, has been talking with Murdoch's News Corp. <NCP.AX> and Liberty Media but there have not been any formal negotiations.

Officials of Liberty Media, EchoStar, and News Corp, in New York, were not immediately available for comment.

Ergen is not commenting on his motives and it is not clear what response these preliminary feelers have sparked, according to the report.

Rest of the story (http://www.forbes.com/newswire/2003/01/21/rtr852536.html):

hehe,
Lets wait and see what happens at the very end...
They are only talking for now...
I know it can happen...But as they also say: "Talk is cheap" :)

Insider Reporter

01-21-03, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by gcutler
Why are you talking about DBS as if it is dead.

Starting in 2004, Mr & Mrs Couch Potato will be able to buy digital/HD sets, put the plug in the wall, plug in antenna and/or cable and watch OTA dtv/HD + Cable HD without a set top box.

Do you really think that these people will spend money on a satellite system to get less? Harr.........................rdly.

DBS is in for a rough ride in areas that have plenty of OTA digitals + a modern cable operator.

Darkman

01-21-03, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by tres
I hope the new owners add trio, goodlife, bet-jazz, b-mania tv, vh1-country, and HBO-zone.

hehe,
i think it's the First priority on their list at the moment :D :D :D

I suggest for you to look at and be concerned with "The Big Picture" for now rather then hoping/worrying about "a couple of channels"....

Let the deal get finalized first, then hope/request "the above"...
It's like - you are trying to "eat the dinner", that is not even close yet to "being cooked" :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ronmort

01-21-03, 10:37 AM

I don't know why some posters think that DBS is in decline. All the projections I have read claim the future growth of DBS looks promising. Actually, I remember reading articles cited on here which stated cable is in decline. There will be ups and downs for all businesses based on the nation's economy which I think is much worse than it seems. I still think there is a great future for satellite tv.

FTA Michael

01-21-03, 10:42 AM

One of the scariest things about this story is that I called it last week! See http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11277 where I said "It's weird. I was also thinking that on some Charlie Chat soon, he's gonna drop The Big One -- that he's stepping down and cashing in at least some of his chips."

Of course I said that in response to bunkers, who said it even more directly: "charlie ... may have a deal almost done to sell the company (his baby) to a competitor (other than DTV)".

Which just goes to show that if you get dozens of people speculating about the future, at least one or two will be close to correct. :)

James_F

01-21-03, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by gcutler
<snip>

I'm not saying its dead, I'm just saying its not a growth segment anymore. When locals move to HDTV, how will DBS compete. :shrug:

I was trying to say that the mature DBS market isn't going to be as interesting and Digital Cable might be able to know most DBS subs in cities back to cable. But who knows... With GE/News Corp and others looking at the market, this thing might change a couple times. HDTV is the future and I don't think DBS can continue with its current technology and survive.

Scott Greczkowski

01-21-03, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by James_F

When locals move to HDTV, how will DBS compete. :shrug:

Thats the problem, they can't and wait until all of the channels start converting over to HD.

Already we have HBO, Showtime Discovery Channel, soon it will be ESPN, Bravo and Cinemax. Soon I expect MANY more Cable Networks to launch HD Simulcasts.

The key to this is they won't simulcast forever.

Ultimately the FCC is going to have to step in and open things up and perhaps (gasp) even approve a merger because there is not enough bandwidth up there once everything goes digital. And I don't see anyone wanting to watch Highly compressed HDTV.

gcutler

01-21-03, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Insider Reporter

Starting in 2004, Mr & Mrs Couch Potato will be able to buy digital/HD sets, put the plug in the wall, plug in antenna and/or cable and watch OTA dtv/HD + Cable HD without a set top box.

Do you really think that these people will spend money on a satellite system to get less? Harr.........................rdly.

DBS is in for a rough ride in areas that have plenty of OTA digitals + a modern cable operator.

Well the price better come down quite a bit as The cost of HDTV in 2003 is still tooo much. Whose to say the price will be right even when those boxes. Alot can change over into 2005. And still even with HD, my cable company does not offer as many channels as D* or E*. So they will not be spending money to get less, it all depends. You are all Predicting the future, and most predictions are wrong. Who knows what the situation will be in 2005-6. If my cable company still offers significantly less than Dish then why would people give it up. Of course each cable offering is different so who knows.

Jacob S

01-21-03, 11:23 AM

I do not think that C-band will have a ''big'' comeback. I also think it would take more than 2 years to have a big change with dbs because it would take time to buy a company then convert receivers/satellites, build new satellites, launch new satellites, etc. Tha all takes time.

I read somewhere on here that DBS is gaining a lot more subs than cable is. DBS may not be growing quite as fast as they once were but they are still growing. DirecTv would be growing a LOT more if they were not losing so many subscribers. I read that they lost 800,000 subs but were able to gain more than that, so if they would find out how to keep the subs they have, their gains would be MUCH higher. If they would not add as many subs anymore they would start losing sub counts.

If cable is making a change with times then it will be time for satellite to do the same. Cable had to swap out all of their receivers when digital cable came, satellite will have to do something as well to keep up with technology.

Dish and DirecTv needs to diversify, such as trying to advance this wireless internet service to making it more affordable and bundeling that with satellite, and providing other services.

I also think that Charlie can be a part of satellite without having to own part of it. Maybe this is what Charlie is looking at, that he does want to be a part of it but does not want to put financial risk into it anymore, that he has enough money to live very well and that he should take what he has and cash in. The only way he can cash most of his money is to sell the company if he owns a lot or most of the stock.

Walmart Greeter

01-21-03, 11:32 AM

I forecast that Charlie will buy Comcast Cable after the Dish deal is done.

gcutler

01-21-03, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by James_F

I'm not saying its dead, I'm just saying its not a growth segment anymore. When locals move to HDTV, how will DBS compete. :shrug:

I was trying to say that the mature DBS market isn't going to be as interesting and Digital Cable might be able to know most DBS subs in cities back to cable. But who knows... With GE/News Corp and others looking at the market, this thing might change a couple times. HDTV is the future and I don't think DBS can continue with its current technology and survive.

Ok, I agree its not a growth segment. But Necessity is the father of invention. And the current technology can improve. I mean any of us without a 6000 or 921 will need to upgrade our HW to get the HD anyway so perhaps that might be the time some hardware changes occur. I've just heard tooo many predictions over the years that have spelt the death knell of just about everthing and many are wrong because of 1 or 2 factors not considered by most.

But snce everone here is predicting, I might as well make one. My prediction is that tooo many people and companies will wait tooo long to get the equipment (because of cost or procrastination, shortages will occur, etc.) and the best laid plans of mice and men will stumble thru a lot longer drawn out process than expected.

sampatterson

01-21-03, 11:34 AM

Well at least Charlie can start using the "we can do that after the merger" answer to all questions again...

platinum

01-21-03, 11:34 AM

Rupert may well be feeling out Charlie so he can get a better deal on D*

John Corn

01-21-03, 11:43 AM

gcutler, I couldn't agree with you more. :)
Charlie is keeping options open, he's a buisness man, it's quite simple. DBS isn't dead yet, and neither is it's growth.

lee635

01-21-03, 11:47 AM

Let's consider the long view. Small and medium size cable systems cannot afford to upgrade to offer digital cable, internet, and local phone service.

What if these smaller cable outfits partnered with DBS to offer the "cable TV" portion of the system via minidish? This opens up bandwidth on that cable system for services such as local channels, internet and local phone service. If the internet and local phone service can provide a better revenue stream than an anemic cable tv franchise, then it could turn some potentially bankrupt cable systems into profit centers. I can see a future for DBS, especially in the rural stronghold.

And don't forget that DBS offers nationwide coverage for services that may not be offered via local cable. NFL Sunday Ticket comes to mind.

Now if some geek out there can figure out a decent satellite internet... ;)

gcutler

01-21-03, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by John Corn
gcutler, I couldn't agree with you more. :)
Charlie is keeping options open, he's a buisness man, it's quite simple. DBS isn't dead yet, and neither is it's growth.

I just imagine Mrs. Ergen is saying "Look the Kids are all in High School, we've spent the past 20 years building this company. Lets cash out before Al Sharpton comes back and scares the Labs."

raj2001

01-21-03, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by gcutler

I just imagine Mrs. Ergen is saying "Look the Kids are all in High School, we've spent the past 20 years building this company. Lets cash out before Al Sharpton comes back and scares the Labs."

Hah that's the best response yet.

John Corn

01-21-03, 12:02 PM

Charlie probably is concerned about E* future, he's not sick or depressed, Charlie has probably simply putting in alot of long hours, he's a buissness man and a gambler.

I still see growth in the DBS secter it's not dead yet.
I do no one thing......Hold on folks, the future will be intresting over the next few years.

Jacob S

01-21-03, 12:05 PM

So in other words, Echostar would not manufacture the product anymore even if they would sell just the Dish Network part of Echostar? Or would Echostar manufacture the DCII or NDS receivers?

Eyedox

01-21-03, 12:14 PM

If Rupert gets ahold of E*, you can FORGET about new HD channels since he and FOX don't believe people can tell the difference between 480p and 1080i.

tres

01-21-03, 12:24 PM

As long as the Playboy Channel remains at $14.99 a month, I will continue with Dish!!! In my area, Charter Communications charges $9.99 for any one show on Playboy, whether it be a thirty minute show or a 90 minute show. That is highway robbery!

Darkman

01-21-03, 12:27 PM

I do not think anybody knows for sure anything yet anyhow..
people just talking...
Where does it leave current 721 and upcoming 921 then? (down the drain?)

[EDIT] - this Post got moved i guess from a different thread, but above i was refering to the DCII and DTV encryption if other parties buy E* (it was in relation to the post BELOW)

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Charlie having separate talks with Malone & Rupert

Charlie is talking separately with John Malone and Rupert Murdoch.

Speculation is that the sale will be to only 1 of these groups due to the cable/tv manufacturer recent deal on built in tuners on digital sets starting in 2004.

With his background in the cable business, John Malone is in favor of converting Dish encryption to Digicipher II. Because the DCII code is 95% the same as the ATSC code, it would very inexpensive to produce DCII conditional access cards for the new digital designs.

Rupert, on the other hand, by virtue of his ownership in NDS would want to convert Dish to DTV type encryption.

In either case, Kudelski is out of the loop. Echostar hardware design and equipment will cease. This would leave Canada's Expressvu and Spain's Via Digital as orphans in the satellite Nagravision DBS business
-------------------------

Darkman

01-21-03, 12:35 PM

tres (Guest) said:
-----------------------
As long as the Playboy Channel remains at $14.99 a month, I will continue with Dish!!! In my area, Charter Communications charges $9.99 for any one show on Playboy, whether it be a thirty minute show or a 90 minute show. That is highway robbery!
-----------------------

hehe :) :) :)

Scott Greczkowski

01-21-03, 12:35 PM

IF (and only IF) something happens it will be YEARS before we see any real changes (especially to the equipment)

Mike123abc

01-21-03, 01:01 PM

Does Echostar really make anything now? I believe that they outsource the manufacturing of their boxes to companies like JVC. Yes I do believe they design and program them.

shilton

01-21-03, 01:51 PM

Read my other thread...Murdoch deal unlikely and we can put this thing to rest. Looks like Charlie has NO plans on selling but rather is buying himself time to grow by screwing Rupert out of a direcTV purchase.

I think its safe to say we can put our minds at ease for now anyway! Dish does seem to be looking to the future (even if it means cheating and playing tricks to get to the top).

Ah...the great American way of business...Gotta love it!

Jacob S

01-21-03, 04:20 PM

So maybe Murdoch sees what Dish is doing and going to stop anything before it begins.

Wedgecon

01-21-03, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Mike123abc
Does Echostar really make anything now? I believe that they outsource the manufacturing of their boxes to companies like JVC. Yes I do believe they design and program them.

Echostar still designs and manufactures all of their receivers. The JVC badge is just put on to get them into retail stores.

DirecTV is going to pretty much the same thing, Most are made by Hughes in the same factory with only minor differences between the brands.

Bob Haller

01-21-03, 04:50 PM

Well charlie appears disconnected from the business. I still think its possible.

jeffwtux

01-21-03, 05:34 PM

Maybe he finally realizes DirecTV is a big competitor all along, and that they really can't compete right now. I don't think DBS is in a decline, but maybe Dish is about to be and Charlie is just getting out on top.

jeffwtux

01-21-03, 05:38 PM

Wait a second, what exactly is the rumor????
Is he really selling out completely or just selling some stock??? You people might be making way too much of this. Have any of you seen Echostar stock lately??? It's like doubled from it's July low. Any smart person would sell and diversify from hear. This doesn't sound like a bail or dirty insider trading. It's obvious to anybody hear that Dish faces major problems in the future, and if you can sell the stock at short-term highs, I say go for it.

Jacob S

01-21-03, 05:45 PM

Buy low and sell high, why buy high?

jeffwtux

01-21-03, 05:54 PM

Who is buying high? Not Charlie.

BERT GORDON

01-21-03, 06:43 PM

Maybe Disney gets into the mix for DISH or DirecTV alongside GE/Viacom/NewsCorp?

Steve Mehs

01-21-03, 07:55 PM

Does Echostar really make anything now? I believe that they outsource the manufacturing of their boxes to companies like JVC. Yes I do believe they design and program them.

ETC designs the hardware but actual manufacturing is done by SCI (www.sci.com). JVC and RCA branded boxes are use to get into national Retail, JVC for Sears and CompUSA and RCA for WalMart and RS.

raj2001

01-21-03, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by jeffwtux
Wait a second, what exactly is the rumor????
Is he really selling out completely or just selling some stock???

Nope. I think Charlie is sweating beads at the thought of Murdoch owning DirecTV and adding it to his global empire. That was one of the reasons he jumped to buy DirecTV when Murdoch wanted to buy it.

Let's face it - Charlie is already fighting programming providers (the recent TNT and NESN fiasco proved that), and with one of the biggest programming providers owning his direct competitor (cable doesn't count, because you won't go back to cable, right?) you must expect him to get nervous.

jeffwtux

01-21-03, 08:22 PM

Raj:

Oh, but I thought he really didn't compete with DirecTV. His #1 competitor is cable, right? :)

Jacob S

01-21-03, 08:23 PM

Yeah, and #2 is DirecTv

raj2001

01-21-03, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by jeffwtux
Raj:

Oh, but I thought he really didn't compete with DirecTV. His #1 competitor is cable, right? :)

Well not really, there are areas without cable TV. "Cable is the competitor" was the excuse Charlie used to try to get the merger approved.

jzoomer

01-21-03, 09:27 PM

DBS companies, as any business, are there to make money. This is something that they've never done and there is no sign that they ever will. That is why both major players are looking for a buyer.

I don't know who will fold first, but the number of satellite companies will go down to one. I wouldn't be surprise if Murdoch buys them both and the FCC approves this.

JosephF

01-21-03, 09:30 PM

ETC designs the hardware but actual manufacturing is done by SCI. JVC and RCA branded boxes are use to get into national Retail, JVC for Sears and CompUSA and RCA for WalMart and RS.

Receivers are also built by Thomson and JVC.

Thomson builds receivers under both the RCA and E* brands.

Interestingly, the JVC "branded" boxes are built by SCI. All of the JVC "built" receivers are sold as E* product.

SCI also builds all of the ExpressVu receivers.

bogi

01-21-03, 09:55 PM

With the latest talks with Rupert ant TNT over content I guess Charlie had realized its not the hardware that matters its the content. That is why he is willing to sell in my opinion.

If he had a merger he could bully the content providers because they would of been loosing 10 million plus viewers.

MarkA

01-21-03, 09:59 PM

If Rupert decides to purchase E*, I think it will change for the better. I'm basing this on what I think of his British satellite service - British Sky Broadcasting.

BTW, if he does buy E*, what's the betting he changes the name to something that includes the work Sky ? Possibly American Sky Broadcasting. Honestly, I expect he would change it to a Sky name. Probably Sky America or American Sky Broadcasting. DISH Network is a name that has little brand recognition (unlike DirecTV), so why not change it to match the rest of your services?

PSB

01-21-03, 10:11 PM

I agree, no matter what one he buys he WILL change it to the SKY name. I cant wait for more football (soccer?) on TV.

platinum

01-21-03, 10:14 PM

My bet is he buys D*

Scott Greczkowski

01-22-03, 09:11 AM

Good read.

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E33%257E1126617%257E,00.html

raj2001

01-22-03, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by PSB
I agree, no matter what one he buys he WILL change it to the SKY name. I cant wait for more football (soccer?) on TV.

What's soccer?

I only know about futbol.
:D

shilton

01-22-03, 10:05 AM

appeared on Forbes.com
Murdoch Won't Deal With Ergen Again

NEW YORK – Rupert Murdoch is about as likely to attempt another deal with nemesis and EchoStar Chief Executive Charlie Ergen as he is to shift Fox News to a liberal stance. Satellite industry spectators can consider this morning's report that the two parties are in discussions as little more than posturing in this neverending pay-TV poker game.

In a game plan that would make Peanuts character Lucy proud, EchoStar's Ergen has already snatched the football out from under News Corp. honcho Murdoch twice. In so doing, Ergen has accomplished two critical objective: He kept DirecTV out of News Corp.'s hands, preventing Murdoch from topping off the global satellite network he yearns for, and he's kept DirecTV without the cash-rich partner it needs as its parent's financials flail.

"I can't imagine that Murdoch isn't treating Ergen with extreme caution," says Precursor Group analyst Scott Cleland. "The deal risk of them buying EchoStar is off the charts, because Ergen will weasel out of it leaving Murdoch without a U.S. partner and DirecTV without the help it needs." Liberty Media chief John Malone is likely partnering with Murdoch on any new bid he makes for DirecTV and has also reportedly been talking to EchoStar as well.

But Ergen doesn't need to sell, and DirecTV still makes more sense for Murdoch and Malone.

This round of talks between Ergen and Murdoch may be a part of several possible strategies. Ergen may want to freeze up the satellite industry further, giving him more time to gain on DirecTV as he managed to do while their merger was slated. Or Murdoch may just want to send a signal to DirecTV that it's not the only game in town and that any News Corp. deal will be priced accordingly.

Ergen doesn't need to sell out anytime soon, despite his protests about the weakness of his business and the threat that cable's ability to offer broadband Internet access poses for it. Much of that talk was just to convince regulators to let him buy DirecTV.

"Ergen is generating more cash flow than Hughes and has gained market share in every quarter for the last year and a half," says SG Cowen analyst Tom Watts.

And while broadband may pose a challenge for Ergen at some point, Cleland doesn't see that becoming a problem for years. "Cable is using broadband as a defense, but it's not defending their rural areas because even cable isn't offering much broadband there," he says. "In the next few years Ergen has 10 million to 15 million rural customers he can poach from cable."

Ergen's business may be in better shape, but from Murdoch's standpoint DirecTV is still a better buy simply because it has more viewers--11 million compared with Echostar's 7 million or so. Murdoch's primary goal is to get more distribution for all the film and TV programming he owns.

News Corp. and EchoStar may have a sea of acrimony between them, but it's business plain and simple that'll keep these two players apart.

All this seems to be for nothing. The experts are saying Charlie is NOT selling but just buying time to kill off the DirecTV deal with Murdoch while he works to build new ground for Echostar. Based upon Charlie's "poker playing" in the past, I am inclined to agree. I doubt the company will be sold and as for the remarks that Dish is not a well enough recognized name...lets remember that Dish has been growing at a rate much faster than DirectTV and companies like AT&T thought they'd be #1 forever in their business too. Just because they are not #1 today does not mean Dish cannot catch up...and let me point out that a good deal of "regular America" has no idea who Rupert Murdoch is so he cal call a company whatever he wants to and it will mean nothing more to the average Joe!

sorahl

01-22-03, 11:48 AM

I think it's a Vast Left Wing Conspiracy to gain control of the satellites to institute a way for Bill to get his own TV show on his own schedule.

TIC :)

John

wrate

01-22-03, 12:12 PM

The sad part about this whole HD crap, because that is all it is, is that people don't care and DON'T NEED HD. Just look at this moment at your DishNetwork or DirecTV picture. Its fussy and in very few instances you actually get a super sharp bright picture. Yet, you don't hear people saying anything about it. People don't care. The HD thing is yet another push by the electronic industry to have people buy something else.

I don't care for HD and I definitely won't be spending $3,000 in an HD TV set. I can assure you that the great majority of the people feel this way.

So, if the FCC enforces HD, it is only to force people to spend money on something they don't need. And it will put the DBS companies in big trouble.

Better to worry about producing good TV shows. Sure, I'll watch the Survivor crap in HD, I can't wait.

How stupid can this greed thing get?

razorbackfan

01-22-03, 01:26 PM

rbaer

01-22-03, 01:36 PM

1. Couldn't disagree more about HD. After watching football in HD, it is nearly impossible to go back and watch SD. Any and all of my friends who have seen football in HD are definitely fans of HD and several have recently purchased HD capable sets.

2. The days of the $3000 HD set are over. Lcos, DLP and Plasma technologies will be dropping the prices drastically over the next year and you can already get CRT based RPtVs for at or below $3000 (even Elite models with built in line doublers). I really expect prices to drop in half for the Lcos and DLP technologies over the next 18 months.

3. I won't read too much into the rumored Murdoch/E* talks just yet. While Murdoch will likely end up with Directv, and Charlie will likely stay on at E*, it could be very beneficial to both sides to have an amicable and mutually beneficial relationship (ie, both E* and Directv focusing on getting market share from cable by aggressively pursing local channels, HD, and gameticket type services not available on cable while mirroring services of each other and coincidentally pricing). There are legal ways not to work against each other without physically merging or violating anti-trust laws.

Chris Freeland

01-22-03, 01:56 PM

I have my doubts that Charley will sell out completely, especially to Murdoch, however I would not be surprised to see him take in a partner like Liberty Media or Disney who is also a program provider. Since the merger failed I believe the only way for both E* and D* to survive in the long run is to get in bed with a major program provider.

bearklaw

01-22-03, 09:18 PM

Hmm, if the feds blocked the D*/E* merger, why allow one of them to go to one of the cable companies trying to build a monopoly? Or is Charlie posturing for some reason?

-BearKlaw

Biscit

01-23-03, 03:44 AM

Originally posted by wrate
The sad part about this whole HD crap, because that is all it is, is that people don't care and DON'T NEED HD. Just look at this moment at your DishNetwork or DirecTV picture. Its fussy and in very few instances you actually get a super sharp bright picture.

:confused:
You appear to contradict yourself in the second sentance. Some of the draw for HD is that it looks better than the SD stuff.

However the first sentance *is* true. None of us actually need HDTV. In fact none of us need TV period. Just that a lot of us like to have TV a lot. And even if HDTV is limited to us enthusiasts through the early days, it will gather momentum. Maybe not this year or next, but soon it will be the de-facto standard.

The current NTSC defined dimentions are what? 40-50 years old? We moved on to pictures, we moved on to cable and satelite, we will move on to the next generation of TV. Not all at once and with the same level of enthusiasm but I think we will.

wiz

01-23-03, 09:20 AM

We that have HD sets and are waiting for the new HD receivers can tell you what terrible pictures that one gets from SD on a big screen. The digital artifacts makes watching some shows not worth while. Bring on HD. Once you've seen it, you'll want it.

Jacob S

01-23-03, 12:14 PM

Its about time tv and radio is changing along with everything else.

jeffcarp

01-23-03, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by wrate
The sad part about this whole HD crap, because that is all it is, is that people don't care and DON'T NEED HD. Just look at this moment at your DishNetwork or DirecTV picture. Its fussy and in very few instances you actually get a super sharp bright picture. Yet, you don't hear people saying anything about it. People don't care. The HD thing is yet another push by the electronic industry to have people buy something else.

I don't care for HD and I definitely won't be spending $3,000 in an HD TV set. I can assure you that the great majority of the people feel this way.

So, if the FCC enforces HD, it is only to force people to spend money on something they don't need. And it will put the DBS companies in big trouble.

Better to worry about producing good TV shows. Sure, I'll watch the Survivor crap in HD, I can't wait.

How stupid can this greed thing get?
Posts like this drive me nuts. Bluntly, there are nearly 20 million satellite subscribers and a hundred million television households. How in the h**l do you know "that the great majority of the people feel this way?" You don't, I don't and others in this forum don't. Companies wouldn't be gambling with hundreds of millions of dollar of development costs to roll out HD equipment in this were true.