digital local sub-channels - any chance on D*?

[oenophile]

I'm wondering if there's any chance D* might carry local HD/digital sub-channels sometime in the future. Anyone know?

I do have these OTA, but some have bad reception and I do use them...

(Looked for this discussion; didn't see it. Wondering, too, whether the answer might be different now as MPEG4 could handle a ton of SD digital sub-channels without much of an issue.)

[mx6bfast]

Hopefully not. If you care about HD quality you don't like subchannels.

Hopefully the less providers that carry them the more chance they will go away.

[Carl Spock]

Maybe with time, oenophile. Let them get the D11 satellite up there and see what happens. So far, DirecTV hasn't done LIL insertion of any subchannels to my knowledge.

[machavez00]

many of the sub channels are already carried by DirecTV,

[mx6bfast]

many of the sub channels are already carried by DirecTV,
Where and which ones?

[RobertE]

OTA sub channels are a pandoras box.

Purists insist on having OTA for the full bit rate that the station broadcasts. Mpeg4 Lils via the sat are no good to them as they are HD-Lite.

They also want OTA for all the sub-channels offered.

Now, here's the conundrum.

Mpeg4 locals via the sat are HD-Lite so say the purists.

Shouldn't HD OTA with subchannels also be considered HD-lite? The bandwith for those sub-channels comes from somewhere. They have to reduce the bit-rate of the main channel. One of the main complaits about the HD locals via the sat.

Nice catch-22.

[lwilli201]

OTA sub channels are a pandoras box.

Purists insist on having OTA for the full bit rate that the station broadcasts. Mpeg4 Lils via the sat are no good to them as they are HD-Lite.

They also want OTA for all the sub-channels offered.

Now, here's the conundrum.

Mpeg4 locals via the sat are HD-Lite so say the purists.

Shouldn't HD OTA with sub-channels also be considered HD-lite? The bandwidth for those sub-channels comes from somewhere. They have to reduce the bit-rate of the main channel. One of the main complaits about the HD locals via the sat.

Nice catch-22.

You are totally correct. Sub-channels only reduce the PQ of the main channels. Before anyone complains about the PQ of the DirecTV LIL stations, they need to check to see how any sub-channels that station has. The only way for DirecTV to get full HD from locals is for a direct feed from the station. Otherwise they have to except whatever can be grabbed OTA no matter how much it is diluted.

In Kansas City, of the big four only the NBC affiliate runs a full time sub-channel, Weather Plus. The main channel has the worst PQ of the four big four HD feeds on Directv. The PBS station has 4 channels during the day. Todays schedule shows two of these channels are showing HD programming at the same time. I would hate to see the PQ on those HD shows.

[Paul Secic]

I'm wondering if there's any chance D* might carry local HD/digital sub-channels sometime in the future. Anyone know?

I do have these OTA, but some have bad reception and I do use them...

(Looked for this discussion; didn't see it. Wondering, too, whether the answer might be different now as MPEG4 could handle a ton of SD digital sub-channels without much of an issue.)

There isn't much on subsets except for KQED PBS who has 5 streams. SF stations probably don't want to buy extra content.

[lwilli201]

With over 200 DMA's and only about 55 spot beams per Ka satallite, Directv will be doing good to get one HD feed from each station in every DMA. Assuming that will take all the spot beam capacity of the 4 Ka sats (one still to be launched) to do this, they would have to launch 4 more sats to put a second spot beam in each DMA to supply all the sub channels. I do not think that will happen.

[ansky]

I have an antenna hooked up and can get many subchannels. Other than NBC Wx Plus there is nothing ever worth watching. I think it would be a waste of D* resources to try and provide these to every market.

[Paul Secic]

I have an antenna hooked up and can get many subchannels. Other than NBC Wx Plus there is nothing ever worth watching. I think it would be a waste of D* resources to try and provide these to every market.

Same thing here except for channel 20 in San Francisco which has Azetca on a digital sub. Yawn.

[machavez00]

many of the sub channels are already carried by DirecTV,

Where and which ones?

TBN's Church Channel for one. Our local Univision channel carries Telefutura as a subchannel. If you are talking about local DMA specific sub channels, then no, DirecTV doesn't carry those

[mx6bfast]

TBN's Church Channel for one. Our local Univision channel carries Telefutura as a subchannel. If you are talking about local DMA specific sub channels, then no, DirecTV doesn't carry those
So for the 2 stations you mention, Church Channel and Univision or Telefutra, both of those are being carried by D*? So you have more than 1 channel per station? For example from D* you have a 5-1 for TBN, 5-2 for Church Channel. Then Univision a 10-1 and Telefutra 10-2?

[machavez00]

So for the 2 stations you mention, Church Channel and Univision or Telefutra, both of those are being carried by D*? So you have more than 1 channel per station? For example from D* you have a 5-1 for TBN, 5-2 for Church Channel. Then Univision a 10-1 and Telefutra 10-2?

Our local TBN affiliate is using all 5: 21-1 TBN, 21-2 Church Channel, 21-3 JCTV, 21-4 TBN Enlace, and 21-5 Smile of a Child, all SD. Our Univision affiliate is 33-1 and Telefutura is 33-2. Out ion affiliate carries the west coast feed on the main channel, and the east coast feed on the sub channel, and ion Life on another.

[oenophile]

Interesting responses. (I'm the OP.)
As background for my question: I already have OTA and do sometimes use some of the subchannels. Particularly those on KQED (local public tv station). KQED uses the different feeds to show different things at different times. (Only one is HD, the rest are SD.) I also sometimes use the weather channels if I'd quickly like to check on the weather and don't feel like going over to the PC.

I'm actually pleased to understand (hear) that it is technically possible for D* to get a better local signal than is available OTA. (I had thought the D* feeds were taken from OTA; and also didn't realize they could plug in *prior to the compression* caused when they send it out OTA (to save room for sub-channels).) If I understand some of the posts here, it is actually possible in some areas for D* to have a *better* picture than OTA for local channels? (Is that really right?) I hadn't realized that.

If that's really the case, I would definitely rather have better quality prime channels and no sub-channels....

Also hadn't realized that the fact that the locals are on spot-beams makes the bandwidth limited even though new bird(s) is (are) (going) up. I had figured that there was plenty of bandiwdth for SD sub-channels.

Thanks for the info....

[mx6bfast]

Our local TBN affiliate is using all 5: 21-1 TBN, 21-2 Church Channel, 21-3 JCTV, 21-4 TBN Enlace, and 21-5 Smile of a Child, all SD. Our Univision affiliate is 33-1 and Telefutura is 33-2. Out ion affiliate carries the west coast feed on the main channel, and the east coast feed on the sub channel, and ion Life on another.
Which of those is D* carrying?

[DBSNewbie]

Our local TBN affiliate is using all 5: 21-1 TBN, 21-2 Church Channel, 21-3 JCTV, 21-4 TBN Enlace, and 21-5 Smile of a Child, all SD. Our Univision affiliate is 33-1 and Telefutura is 33-2. Out ion affiliate carries the west coast feed on the main channel, and the east coast feed on the sub channel, and ion Life on another.

If you were to hook up an OTA antenna, (or if you already have one hooked up) how would it show (or how does it show) up on the GUIDE? Would all those channels you mentioned be shown twice?

[mx6bfast]

I'm actually pleased to understand (hear) that it is technically possible for D* to get a better local signal than is available OTA. (I had thought the D* feeds were taken from OTA; and also didn't realize they could plug in *prior to the compression* caused when they send it out OTA (to save room for sub-channels).) If I understand some of the posts here, it is actually possible in some areas for D* to have a *better* picture than OTA for local channels? (Is that really right?) I hadn't realized that.

If that's really the case, I would definitely rather have better quality prime channels and no sub-channels....
For probably 98 - 99% of the cities that D* carries they get the feed OTA. I know of the NBC feed in NYC and I think I have heard of another one (don't recall the city) where a fiber feed is sent from station directly to D*. Other than those stations D* gets the HD feed OTA. This feed would be victimized by subchannels.

But your last sentence is confusing, do you want better quality or subchannels?

[oenophile]

For probably 98 - 99% of the cities that D* carries they get the feed OTA. I know of the NBC feed in NYC and I think I have heard of another one (don't recall the city) where a fiber feed is sent from station directly to D*. Other than those stations D* gets the HD feed OTA. This feed would be victimized by subchannels.

But your last sentence is confusing, do you want better quality or subchannels?Better quality first; then sub-channels if it doesn't damage quality.

[tonyd79]

A couple of things....

If the sub-channels exist and DirecTV is getting the OTA signal, then the bandwidth is already allocated and nothing DirecTV does or doesn't do is going to make it better.

Second, who says that putting the subchannel on DirecTV is going to take bandwidth from the main channel? They aren't limited by the single digital channel bandwidth allocation that the OTA channels are. The subs can be treated as regular SD (in the vast majority of the cases) and not affect the main one twit.

If I read this thread correctly, some of you are acting as if the subs would be carried with the main on a single carrier. Not so for DirecTV. We are talking bit streams, not carrier based channels.

[machavez00]

Our local TBN affiliate is using all 5: 21-1 TBN, 21-2 Church Channel, 21-3 JCTV, 21-4 TBN Enlace, and 21-5 Smile of a Child, all SD. Our Univision affiliate is 33-1 and Telefutura is 33-2. Out ion affiliate carries the west coast feed on the main channel, and the east coast feed on the sub channel, and ion Life on another.

Which of those is D* carrying?

DirectTV carries TBN (which is why DirecTV does not have TBN LILs), The Church Channel and ion's east coast feed. TBN is working with DirecTV to carry the other TBN channels. DirecTV has Telfutura as a separate LIL here in Phoenix.

[mx6bfast]

DirectTV carries TBN (which is why DirecTV does not have TBN LILs), The Church Channel and ion's east coast feed. TBN is working with DirecTV to carry the other TBN channels. DirecTV has Telfutura as a separate LIL here in Phoenix.
So what you are saying is D* is carrying these channels as part of their regular packages, not as subchannels?

[Paul Secic]

Interesting responses. (I'm the OP.)
As background for my question: I already have OTA and do sometimes use some of the subchannels. Particularly those on KQED (local public tv station). KQED uses the different feeds to show different things at different times. (Only one is HD, the rest are SD.) I also sometimes use the weather channels if I'd quickly like to check on the weather and don't feel like going over to the PC.

I'm actually pleased to understand (hear) that it is technically possible for D* to get a better local signal than is available OTA. (I had thought the D* feeds were taken from OTA; and also didn't realize they could plug in *prior to the compression* caused when they send it out OTA (to save room for sub-channels).) If I understand some of the posts here, it is actually possible in some areas for D* to have a *better* picture than OTA for local channels? (Is that really right?) I hadn't realized that.

If that's really the case, I would definitely rather have better quality prime channels and no sub-channels....

Also hadn't realized that the fact that the locals are on spot-beams makes the bandwidth limited even though new bird(s) is (are) (going) up. I had figured that there was plenty of bandiwdth for SD sub-channels.

Thanks for the info....

Does KCSM have content on digital?

KRON4 is for sale! Young Broadcasting threw in the towel. Thank god, buda. KRON was our NBC station until 2000. Young ruined it by being CHEAP.

[dogs31]

Here's the way my sub channels are:

Channel 7 KRCR (ABCSD)
7-1 KRCR(ABCHD)
7-2 Same as the first

Channel 9 KXIE (PBSSD)
9-1 KXIE (PBSHD)
9-2 Same as 9-1
9-3 Create

Channel 12 KHSL (CBS SD)
12 - 1 KHSL (CBS HD)
12 - 2 CW Chico/Redding (SD)

Channel 24 KNVN (NBC SD)
24 -1 KNVN (NBC HD)
24 -2 Accuweather

Channel 30 KCVU (FOX SD)
30-1 KCVU (FOX HD)
30-2 MYNetwork (SD)

[machavez00]

DirectTV carries TBN (which is why DirecTV does not have TBN LILs), The Church Channel and ion's east coast feed. TBN is working with DirecTV to carry the other TBN channels. DirecTV has Telfutura as a separate LIL here in Phoenix.

So what you are saying is D* is carrying these channels as part of their regular packages, not as subchannels?

correct

[mx6bfast]

correct
Ok I gotcha. It wasn't specifically stated which is why I was confused.