If dish is listening....PLEASE ADD YES!!

[rolou21]

If dish is lurking about on these forums....please don't go 2 years without Yes Ntwk......Try to negotiate a good deal....make your service more competitive...now is the time to shine and add this much requested network...How can you even raise prices to continue to show Disney's most expensive net's such as Espn and classic sports...That you can re-sign and pay highway robbery but not Yes....

Are you waiting to see what Cablevision does (even though they stated they will go another season without the Yankees) with their ongoing feud.

Please Mr. Ergen (even taking away the Cheap Charlie name) and add the channel before a disaster happens with defectors jumping ship to that other pie in the sky....DIRECTV!

[Mark Lamutt]

Maybe because all of us can watch ESPN, but not many can watch YES, even if it was carried? I certainly don't want my rates raised for a channel that I couldn't subscribe to even if I wanted to.

I'd think that the only way YES would be picked up is if a deal could be structured so that it wouldn't affect everyone in the country's rates for a channel that can only be viewed in the northeast.

Just my opinion...

[rolou21]

ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!....................

[Dgenx321]

Can't spell class without ass..

[DarrellP]

ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!........A La Carte... Because I don't want to subsidize someone else to watch this channel.

[firephoto]

What's YES, and what's so great about it?

[spanishannouncetable]

YES carries all NY Yankees games that are not on ESPN or FOX.

It's great if you live in the NYC area (NYC, northern NJ, parts of CT & PA) because it is a RSN. Directv includes it in TC for customers living in those areas at no extra charge.

It kinda sucks if you live outside those areas. Directv can sell the channel nationally as part of the Sports Pack but the games themselves must be blacked out unless you are in the NYC area. The only way to get the games outside the NYC area is to get the MLB Extra Innings package.

YES management will not allow providers to sell the channel on an a la carte basis so that those who want it pay extra while those who don't want it pay nothing. It is treated like any other RSN.

Directv decided it was worth it to carry the channel to increase sub #'s in the NYC area so they spread the cost over the whole subscriber base and didn't increase rates. Echostar has decided not to carry it, saying they don't want to pass along another price increase to subs who don't want or can't even see the channel. Strange reasoning seeing how Directv added it without raising rates, but there you go.

[Mark Holtz]

You may want to check this thread http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11536

[Ronmort]

Yes Dish should add YES. There are numerous postings here and other satellite forums calling for the addition of this channel. Of course, the misinformed are still insisting that their costs will go up for a channel they cannot even see. Nothing is further from the truth. Just hope Ergen does sell out to someone who understands that YES will help increase subscribers as it did for Directv in the NY-NJ area. More subscribers=more bargaining power down the road. The only problem is that probably most of the Yankee fans who dropped Cablevision have already purchased a Directv system.

Cablevision, as you probably know, had an ulterior motive to refuse YES. They own MSG, the former home of the Yankees. They also had the rights to the Nets through FSNY, and they are on YES. The Devils, another FSNY team, will be on YES in a few years. Ergen, who is already in the hole $600 million for his failed attempt to merge with Directv, will have to trim costs. So if you want YES, get a Directv system like thousands of others who dropped Cablevision and/or Dish, and let Ergen receive his praise from his anti-sports cheerleaders.

[Steve Mehs]

It's great if you live in the NYC area (NYC, northern NJ, parts of CT & PA) because it is a RSN. Directv includes it in TC for customers living in those areas at no extra charge.

Yankee territory extends through the whole state of NY, not just the NYC area. I could careless if it's added or not, but if rates have to be raised forget it, I don't want it. Probably would never watch it anyway.

[jened]

Yes to YES! It's another RSN and should be handled as all other RSNs. Dishnetwork blacks out most Yankees games on ESPN. I think this is more than a NY state concern as the Yankees territory includes NJ and some of PA I believe.

[NO to George\'s Channel]

George has an offer to put his channel on E and Cablevision for free and then he can keep all the fees he charges a la carte for his channel. If you want his channel then call up George and tell him to take the offer. If his channel is that great then he should not have any problems making up for the $60 million dollars in revenue he is reportedly losing because his channel is not carried on E or Cablevision.

[Nick]

"ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!"

GET CABLE!!!
GET CABLE!!!
GET CABLE!!!
GET CABLE!!!
GET CABLE!!!
GET CABLE!!!

[James_F]

Or DirecTV... :rolleyes:

Without MLB Extra Innings, YES adds no value to the average Dish sub....

[Pete K.]

quote:
=================================
"YES carries all NY Yankees games that are not on ESPN or FOX."
=================================
Not true...WCBS, Ch. 2 carries about 20
OTA games each season.

[JohnL]

Originally posted by spanishannouncetable
YES carries all NY Yankees games that are not on ESPN or FOX.

It's great if you live in the NYC area (NYC, northern NJ, parts of CT & PA) because it is a RSN. Directv includes it in TC for customers living in those areas at no extra charge.

It kinda sucks if you live outside those areas. Directv can sell the channel nationally as part of the Sports Pack but the games themselves must be blacked out unless you are in the NYC area. The only way to get the games outside the NYC area is to get the MLB Extra Innings package.

YES management will not allow providers to sell the channel on an a la carte basis so that those who want it pay extra while those who don't want it pay nothing. It is treated like any other RSN.

Directv decided it was worth it to carry the channel to increase sub #'s in the NYC area so they spread the cost over the whole subscriber base and didn't increase rates. Echostar has decided not to carry it, saying they don't want to pass along another price increase to subs who don't want or can't even see the channel. Strange reasoning seeing how Directv added it without raising rates, but there you go.

YES, can market the Yankees to the entire State of New York as that is the territory that the Yankees claim as their local market. I Live in Western New York, but I could careless about Baseball so I would say that if this channel is sold ALA Carte fine becuase then only subscribers that care to view this channel would pay for it. The big problem with this is that Steinbreiner and the Yankees refuse to allow carriage of this channel via Ala Carte.

John

[DarrellP]

Strange reasoning seeing how Directv added it without raising rates, but there you go.
That's because D* is losing their A$$ on sports packages & Charlie is too smart to fall into that trap. Just dishing out megabuck$ for a sports package does not guarantee that you will bring in enough extra subs to pay for it. And at $2/sub that is an awfully pricey package.

[cnsf]

Originally posted by NO to George\'s Channel
George has an offer to put his channel on E and Cablevision for free and then he can keep all the fees he charges a la carte for his channel. If you want his channel then call up George and tell him to take the offer. If his channel is that great then he should not have any problems making up for the $60 million dollars in revenue he is reportedly losing because his channel is not carried on E or Cablevision.

So, why should the Mets fans and Knicks fans get their teams for free and not the Yankee fans? Something seems amiss here....

[cnsf]

Originally posted by Nick
"ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!
ADD YES!!!"

GET CABLE!!!
GET CABLE!!!
GET CABLE!!!
GET CABLE!!!
GET CABLE!!!
GET CABLE!!!

You seem to miss the issue that:

CABLE DOESN'T CARRY IT!!!
CABLE DOESN'T CARRY IT!!!
CABLE DOESN'T CARRY IT!!!
CABLE DOESN'T CARRY IT!!!

If it were carried, from everything I've read and using the DirecTV example, it wouldn't affect your rates anyway.

btw - I have my DirecTV switchover scheduled for Feb. 1 for this very reason.

[cnsf]

Originally posted by DarrellP

That's because D* is losing their A$$ on sports packages & Charlie is too smart to fall into that trap. Just dishing out megabuck$ for a sports package does not guarantee that you will bring in enough extra subs to pay for it. And at $2/sub that is an awfully pricey package.

So, how do you justify the $1.84 for MSG? and I believe FSNY probably is in the same range.....not so unreasonable when you also get the Nets (and the Devils a few years down the road).

[Ronmort]

Originally posted by DarrellP

That's because D* is losing their A$$ on sports packages & Charlie is too smart to fall into that trap. Just dishing out megabuck$ for a sports package does not guarantee that you will bring in enough extra subs to pay for it. And at $2/sub that is an awfully pricey package.

Where did you see it documented that DTV is losing its ass on sports packages? That is pure speculation plain and simple-in other words bulcrap! Charlie, your hero, was so smart he fell into a $600 million trap with his stupid attempt to merge with Directv, and furthermore, what is NHL Center Ice and NBA League Pass? I think they are sports packages once exclusively on Directv, so is Charlie falling into another trap? YES is $2 a month per sub, but your hero Charlie has spent a ton of money suing Comcast Sports in a failed attempt to get the Philadelphia sports channel on Dish. Last I heard, Comcast is charging cable companies in PA and NJ $1.85 a month per sub. Go figure!

[Dgenx321]

Well if it holds true and D* raises rates on a package up to $4, you'll see how YE$ is being paid for..

[cnsf]

Originally posted by Dgenx321
Well if it holds true and D* raises rates on a package up to $4, you'll see how YE$ is being paid for..

So, what is Echostar's excuse for raising rates? Certainly not because of YES. You'll have to do better than that....

[James_F]

Originally posted by Dgenx321
Well if it holds true and D* raises rates on a package up to $4, you'll see how YE$ is being paid for..

Please we went thought this a year ago. They "ate" the cost. Nothing was passed on. Any rate raises now have no bearing on YES, but on the industry as a whole.

[Cheyenne]

Didn't Echostar indicate that the channel was not economically feasable? If you owned a business and a very small portion of your customer base demanded a "niche" product that you know you would lose money on delivering, would you deliver?
I doubt it, it just doesn't make good business sense.
You as customers do have a choice.
All you have to do is make a decision.
Given time, all professional sports programing will be PPV only.
The good news... no blackouts, commercial breaks and you would simply purchase the games/teams you want. Do expect to see a huge increase in "on camera" product advertising and sponsoring the particular event. i.e. -Nascar !!!

[dbronstein]

Originally posted by Cheyenne
Given time, all professional sports programing will be PPV only.

I really doubt it. Take baseball. The ratings are in the tank, people aren't watching the World Series when it's free, why would they pay to watch it?

The only sports that are on PPV are the ones that are "events", like boxing. The only major sport that might be able to work on PPV is football, because that's the most like an "event." But the negative publicity would just kill it.

And what makes you think there wouldn't be commercials? If you get the Sunday Ticket, you get commercials.

Dennis

In the case of Baseball, I feel the problem is money and lets just say..... regularity??. More people would attend and show interest in game if ticket cost were lower, thus promoting the sport.
Think of it as the Walmart way of delivering product.
Cheap and enmass. Next thing you know, there's not enough parking. Sunday ticket is not PPV. Simply a sports package retransmitting original local feeds.
PPV is more selective alacart viewing with no interuptions as with PPV movies or theater viewing. The only other option would be able to prepurchase ALL of your favorite team games for the season at a flat rate. These revenues would be linked directly to the ballclub. Again, no blackouts, no interuptions during the event. Season ticket holders at the venues would appreciate the no breaks in games also.
I also feel that technology will drive this. Already can you skip commercials and they know it will get worse. Do you think that yellow 1st down line marker they key into the green background is going to stop there? This exact technology has been successfully tested keying corporate logos into the green background.
In my opinion, I would much rather pay 5 bucks to watch the game I want without being interupted.
There is some people that actually want to enjoy the game, not the "show".

[Cheyenne]

Not sure how I managed to post without being logged in, but
excuse me.

[NO to George\'s Channel]

cnsf wrote....."So, why should the Mets fans and Knicks fans get their teams for free and not the Yankee fans? Something seems amiss here...."

If you are getting the Mets and Knicks for free then you must be a pirate! So if you want George's channel for free then why don't you pirate it?

Last time I looked I was paying for my satellite service which includes a charge for my regional FSN, hardly free (no, I am not in the NY region). George wants too much money for his channel and thus should be on its own tier. Ditto for the Victory Channel.

[DCSholtis]

Originally posted by Cheyenne

Given time, all professional sports programing will be PPV only.
Cheyenne......that would NEVER happen.....if any league even attempted that....Congress would be PISSED big time....and within a very short time youd see legislation preventing that.....:rolleyes:

[Cheyenne]

DCSholtis, The movie industry can do it, why not sports?
Everybody makes money....
Congress???? Let me guess, they will enforce our "right" to watch sports? The ball clubs control the content.
YES is doing this already, one small step towards PPV sports.

[DCSholtis]

In the case of Baseball....Congress can strip that antitrust exemption if they even thought about going PPV....

[Cheyenne]

Baseball could use a shake up anyway.
No boubt, there is always at least one loser to every winner.
The government bodys want their piece of the pie too.
I just feel that in the near future, the only way to deliver professional sports content to the fans in a quality/cost effective way and promote attendance/viewership while all returning a good profit to governing bodies, is the PPV business model.

(Say that twice fast)

[Cheap_billionaire]

No Yes on Dish means less dish net subs in the NY NJ area. This is a major reason why E should get Yes...It's as simple as that! Charlie is completely ignoring one of the biggest markets in this country... NY sports fans are the most passionate fans in the world... Give them Yes!

Unfortunately the money charlie saves by not having Yes on Dish goes right into his pocket! Ah these greedy billionaires! It just seems to me that Charlie doesn't give a dam about the ny metro area he just cares about making his pocket fatter...

Who at Echo was in charge of negotiating a deal with Yes? Charlie? You mean to tell me that Dish and Yes couldn't come up with a reasonable agreement that could have satisfied both parties? Was Charlie to quick to break off talks with Yes? If Yes was owned by disney I am sure that it would be on Dish...

Also a few months ago I was angered after I saw the Charlie Chat; Charlie was actually telling his ny nj customers to Go to DTV if they really wanted to get the Yes network! How can he tell his subs to switch to his number one competitor? I guess he was so confident that the merger was a done deal that it wasn't going to hurt him...Bad move Charlie!... He probably lost many ny nj customers after that charlie chat...

He told his subs that getting the Yes network would have increased their rates...Guess what; he didn't get the Yes network and He STILL raised the rates! Charlie who are you Kidding!
MuchMusic and Speedvision; oooh im sure thats worth the extra 2 bucks!

[Cheyenne]

NY is very important to ANY provider in communications industry.
Not delivering a "niche" channel to this area is an unfortunate situation. YES wants to rape the NY people for this coverage.
Again, controlling the content ! As in any business, the costs versus the profits are weighed. Even a NY cable company has not carried the YES channel due to excessive costs.

FYI - DBS sourced much of the channels to the cable headends in NYC area immediately after the WTC trajedy.
I think it is unfair of you to accusing Echostar of not supporting the NY/NJ area.
Corporations (Echostar) are much bigger than any one person (Charlie). So your accusations towards "Charlie" may be unfounded and simply viewed as "venting".

[James_F]

Originally posted by Cheyenne
DCSholtis, The movie industry can do it, why not sports?
Everybody makes money....
Congress???? Let me guess, they will enforce our "right" to watch sports? The ball clubs control the content.
YES is doing this already, one small step towards PPV sports.

Uh not all movies are on PPV. I don't pay extra for Tuner Classic Movies and AMC, but I'm sure they cost more together per sub than YES.

[jlabsher]

Sorry, but most of the nation doesn't give a crap about YES, and most of the nation HATES the Yankees. I, for one could care less about anything that goes on in NYC and do not want my satellite bandwidth being eaten up by anything that is only interesting to New Yorkers.

Get ala carte or an MLB package or access to all of FSN games (no blackouts) and it would make sense, going all out for something that has interest to only a few makes no sense whatsoever.

[JohnL]

Originally posted by James_F


Uh not all movies are on PPV. I don't pay extra for Tuner Classic Movies and AMC, but I'm sure they cost more together per sub than YES.

James,

YES has demanded $2.00 per subscriber from Dish to carry this station that is more than ANY other Non Sports Network, and it is close to if not more than ESPN that carries games on a National Basis instead of only in their Teams Local rights area.

Remember the $2.00 is not the only cost to Dish or any other Third Party rebroadcaster, there are signal harvesting costs, Rebroadcasting costs, Bandwith opportunity costs, as well as other costs. So adding this channel not only costs the Teams Local Subscribers more per month but also all the rest of Dish's subscribers.

This is a slippery slope if Dish caves in and accepts this carriage agreement what is to stop every other Sports Network from holding the rest of Dish's subscribers over a barrel as well. Are you willing to subsidize another cities Sports Network so they can get some of their sports too. Bottomline NYC had a number of Sports Networks before even YES. I just don't see the fairness to all other Subscribers in the US to subsidize a Large Metropolis's RSN's at others expense considering subscribers outside NYC's Local Rights area get no value out of this addition channel other than the loss of Full Conus bandwidth that could be used for a general interest channel like TRIO or several others.

John

[James_F]

Originally posted by JohnL


James,

YES has demanded $2.00 per subscriber from Dish to carry this station that is more than ANY other Non Sports Network, and it is close to if not more than ESPN that carries games on a National Basis instead of only in their Teams Local rights area.
So? This is New York and these are the Yankess/Nets/Devils. It would be like not carrying Fox Sports AZ in Scottsdale. I couldn't live with that. :D


Remember the $2.00 is not the only cost to Dish or any other Third Party rebroadcaster, there are signal harvesting costs, Rebroadcasting costs, Bandwith opportunity costs, as well as other costs. So adding this channel not only costs the Teams Local Subscribers more per month but also all the rest of Dish's subscribers.

Uh, explain how DirecTV can carry it? Somehow my rates didn't go up.

This is a slippery slope if Dish caves in and accepts this carriage agreement what is to stop every other Sports Network from holding the rest of Dish's subscribers over a barrel as well. Are you willing to subsidize another cities Sports Network so they can get some of their sports too. Bottomline NYC had a number of Sports Networks before even YES. I just don't see the fairness to all other Subscribers in the US to subsidize a Large Metropolis's RSN's at others expense considering subscribers outside NYC's Local Rights area get no value out of this addition channel other than the loss of Full Conus bandwidth that could be used for a general interest channel like TRIO or several others.

John
Now this is a good point, but I don't see how other teams could do this. Not too many are the Yankees. Now I benifit from YES because I get MLB EI on DirecTV and thus get all Yankees games on the Channel (even though I hate them).

But again we are back to DirecTV being able to offer the channel and not increase any cost to the consumer. This is just another "Cheap Charlie" episode and it just reinforces that he is cheap, not smart since DirecTV could handle this.

[James_F]

Originally posted by jlabsher
Sorry, but most of the nation doesn't give a crap about YES, and most of the nation HATES the Yankees. I, for one could care less about anything that goes on in NYC and do not want my satellite bandwidth being eaten up by anything that is only interesting to New Yorkers.

Get ala carte or an MLB package or access to all of FSN games (no blackouts) and it would make sense, going all out for something that has interest to only a few makes no sense whatsoever.

You aint getting not blackouts. Heck you can't even get MLB EI so I guess YES is of little value to you. I hate the Yankees, but I do like baseball and enjoy watching any game I can.

[cnsf]

Originally posted by NO to George\'s Channel
cnsf wrote....."So, why should the Mets fans and Knicks fans get their teams for free and not the Yankee fans? Something seems amiss here...."

If you are getting the Mets and Knicks for free then you must be a pirate! So if you want George's channel for free then why don't you pirate it?

Last time I looked I was paying for my satellite service which includes a charge for my regional FSN, hardly free (no, I am not in the NY region). George wants too much money for his channel and thus should be on its own tier. Ditto for the Victory Channel.

When you pay for locals in NY, you get the major networks (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX), MANY locals (UPN, WB, LNY, LIW, NJN, etc.) AND you get your local sports as part of it...no additional fee (FSNY, MSG).

Sorry for the "wording" mixup...they're not "free". They are usually forgiven and understood in these forums.

Here it is again...if you subscribe to NY locals, you get Knicks, Rangers and Mets as part of it for no additional cost. So, why should the Yankee fans have to pay extra. It doesn't seem fair (even if you're not a Yankee fan).

[Karl Foster]

How many NY/NJ/CT subscribers are choosing Directv over Dish for this (and Hartford locals) reason? How many millions of dollars each month is E* losing? It like stepping over dollars to pick up dimes.

You can't win every single negotiation, and now it seems that Charlie isn't carrying it in spite of his customers. It seems that his attitude is that of - do it my way or I'll take my ball and go home. The only problem with that in the case of YES is the main competitor stayed to play. My opinion is that E* is making a terrible mistake.

Also, if you don't think you are already subsidizing things you don't watch, you are kidding yourself. How often do you watch Lifetime Movie Network, or ESPN Classic, or Hallmark channel - you get the idea. You are subsidizing every other viewer of E* programming. It is Charlie's company, though, and he can choose to ignore the largest DMA with the most rabid sports fans in the country. That is his choice, but with every choice there are consequences. There will be fewer subs to subsidize everything else.

[cnsf]

Keep in mind for everyone that comments on bandwidth, the NY locals are on 61.5 and most likely do NOT affect your bandwidth. One more channel is not a big issue.

Can someone clarify the technical details (Tony TNG???)?

[Mark Holtz]

You YE$ fans talk about the YE$ network as if it was the only Regional $ports Provider with issues. Consider...

* Unless last year, Fox $ports West 2 wasn't carried on Dish due to contract problems. After Fox and Dish came to an agreement, we got both Fox $ports West 2 (if you live in SoCal) as well National Geographic.
* Comcast Philadelphia owns several teams, and has it's own R$N. By sticking with terrestrial means of distributing the channel, it is denying the channel from both Dish Network and DirecTV.
* $ports channels are some of the most expensive to carry, with the carriage rates ranging upwards of $2 per subscriber. In contract, some non-sports channels either pay for carriage (Home Shopping Zones), get their channels carried for free, or pay a lower fee per subscriber. (Probably around 25-70 cents per subscrier).

And, according to TNGTony, who is a very reliable (if underappreciated) person, Dish did come close to a carriage agreement, but it fell apart at the last minute, with some of it concerning which bird it was going to be carried (YE$ wanted 119, DIsh Wanted 110), what package (YE$ wanted AT100, Dish wanted AT150). At the following Charlie Chat, Charlie said that adding the YE$ Network would have increased the Dish bill $2 nationwide, or $4 in the affected area. Not good.

You may say now "But, my Dish bill is going up $2 anyways." Well, there is that renegotiated contract with TNT for the higher rates that channel now charges for both the sports and movie rights.

Charlie doesn't actually negotiate the contracts, but one of his lieutenants does. And, in a story, the negotiator isn't always successful, but leaves room open for further negotiations.

IIRC The New York area also has two other sports channels: Fox Sports New York and MSG, which doesn't help matters.

[James_F]

Saying FSN New York is a RSN is a laugh, but you are probably correct in your assessment.

[dbronstein]

Originally posted by karl_f
How many NY/NJ/CT subscribers are choosing Directv over Dish for this (and Hartford locals) reason? How many millions of dollars each month is E* losing? It like stepping over dollars to pick up dimes.

Is it? As you asked, how many subscribers are they losing because of this? And how many would they lose if they got YES and raised everyone's rates another $2? I don't know the answer to either question, but apparently Charlie and Co. figure that they would lose more by raising rates another $2 than they are by not having YES.

Dennis

[James_F]

Again, how did DirecTV not raise rates when they added YES?

[cnsf]

Originally posted by Z'Loth
You YE$ fans talk about the YE$ network as if it was the only Regional $ports Provider with issues.

So, in your apprently "evenhanded" opinion, what do you suggest New York Yankee fans do?

I have already opted to jump to DirecTV. Most Dish customers don't necessarily have that kind of money to do the same.

They don't have the option of cable in most areas.......

The issue of other sports networks is not being discussed here. The topic is the NY DMA (the biggest market in the country) with arguably the most popular sports team in the US.

[dbronstein]

Originally posted by James_F
Again, how did DirecTV not raise rates when they added YES?

I don't know and neither do you. But considering Hughes had a net loss of almost $900 million last year, my guess is they are just losing money on it. http://www.smartmoney.com/bn/ON/index.cfm?story=ON-20030115-000600-1219

Dennis

[Mark Holtz]

Originally posted by cnsf
So, in your apprently "evenhanded" opinion, what do you suggest New York Yankee fans do?

I have already opted to jump to DirecTV. Most Dish customers don't necessarily have that kind of money to do the same.

They don't have the option of cable in most areas.......

The issue of other sports networks is not being discussed here. The topic is the NY DMA (the biggest market in the country) with arguably the most popular sports team in the US.

You are asking a non-sports fan who would love to jettison the sports packages into their own tier what to do? :lol: Here, there is only one R$N, and that is Fox Sports Bay Area, with the Sacramento Kings being carried on a alternative sports channel.

New York has three: M$G, F$NY, and YE$. Tell George Steinbrenner to allow Dish to offer YE$ a'la carte or to give Dish a more reasonable carriage rate.

[cnsf]

Originally posted by Z'Loth

Tell George Steinbrenner to allow Dish to offer YE$ a'la carte or to give Dish a more reasonable carriage rate.

Tell me how and I'd be happy to. I already emailed the YES Network, sent a letter to YES and tried calling (with no luck, just a front line CSR).

I am already going to DirecTV.....

Any practical suggestions would be appreciated.

Otherwise, if you don't care about sports anyway, does it add any value to add input to this thread?

[cnsf]

Originally posted by dbronstein


I don't know and neither do you. But considering Hughes had a net loss of almost $900 million last year, my guess is they are just losing money on it. http://www.smartmoney.com/bn/ON/index.cfm?story=ON-20030115-000600-1219

Dennis

Do you think this is the sole reason they're losing money?

If you understand the numbers, revenue is up and subscriber growth is up. Accounting rules added to the loss and the loss is much more than the cost of YES (pre-$600 million fee).

Looks to me as if they're well positioned to keep growing and not lose customer base. Can't say the same for the future of Echostar at this point.....hence another reason for my jump to D*.

[Steve Mehs]

New York has three: M$G, F$NY, and YE$.

And and those who live in central NY also get Empire in addition to those three.

[Karl Foster]

Originally posted by dbronstein


Is it? As you asked, how many subscribers are they losing because of this? And how many would they lose if they got YES and raised everyone's rates another $2? I don't know the answer to either question, but apparently Charlie and Co. figure that they would lose more by raising rates another $2 than they are by not having YES.

Dennis

So what you are telling me is that you are going to deny 546,000 subscribers (8,000,000 Dish subs divided by 106,641,000 total households = .075 multiplied by 7,282,000 total NYC households) their favorite sports teams? That is pretty risky, since the NYC DMA pays out approximately $19 million each month to E* (546,000 subs multiplied by an average of $35 per month). I just think they are crazy not to carry this station, especially since cable doesn't have it. They are just giving away business to Directv. It is their business to with as they please, I'm just surprised at this particular decision.

[James_F]

Originally posted by dbronstein


I don't know and neither do you. But considering Hughes had a net loss of almost $900 million last year, my guess is they are just losing money on it. http://www.smartmoney.com/bn/ON/index.cfm?story=ON-20030115-000600-1219

Dennis

You know what, I'm glad you figured that out. :rolleyes: I'm sure GM would love to hire you since.

You obviously didn't read your article you posted.

[Mark Holtz]

Originally posted by karl_f
So what you are telling me is that you are going to deny 546,000 subscribers (8,000,000 Dish subs divided by 106,641,000 total households = .075 multiplied by 7,282,000 total NYC households) their favorite sports teams?

Cablevision has also said NO to the YE$ network, and they are one of the major cable providers. YE$ has citied anti-trust, because Cablevision owns M$G.

[dbronstein]

Originally posted by James_F


You know what, I'm glad you figured that out. :rolleyes: I'm sure GM would love to hire you since.

You obviously didn't read your article you posted.

What didn't I read? From the article:

"For all of 2002, Hughes' net loss widened to $891.1 million from $621.6 million in 2001, thanks to $249 million in goodwill costs from adopting the new accounting rules."

[kenniggemyer]

I'm a basball fan but I don't want my rates raised for the YES. If i wanted YES I would switch to D*. I think that E* is not who you should be bugging. the idea of alertare is very resonable proposal $2.00 a subscriber per month is not. Charge the ones that want it $5.00 or even $10 a month but don't charge me for it. I don't like the Yaynkees whisch is the feelings of most of the country out side of New York.

[invaliduser88]

Professional sports is on the verge of collapsing on itself (baseball especially) due to spiralling salaries and greedy owners.

Just look at the cost of actually attending a game. Now that attending a games is becoming too much for the average person to do more than once or twice a year (if that), they are looking to make up the lost income by increase other revenue streams (broadcast rights).

If the price that YES wants is too much then E* should say no thanks. Same goes for any other channel that isn't worth the price they are asking for.

Oh course, that's my opinion, I could be wrong...

[James_F]

Originally posted by dbronstein


What didn't I read? From the article:

"For all of 2002, Hughes' net loss widened to $891.1 million from $621.6 million in 2001, thanks to $249 million in goodwill costs from adopting the new accounting rules."

How do you get YES as causing that? You are just being a troll. How about adding something to the conversation rather than just being a dick?

[James_F]

Originally posted by kenniggemyer
I'm a basball fan but I don't want my rates raised for the YES. If i wanted YES I would switch to D*. I think that E* is not who you should be bugging. the idea of alertare is very resonable proposal $2.00 a subscriber per month is not. Charge the ones that want it $5.00 or even $10 a month but don't charge me for it. I don't like the Yaynkees whisch is the feelings of most of the country out side of New York.

Again I'd be asked why DirecTV can add YES and not raise rates and Dish can't?

[dbronstein]

Originally posted by James_F
How do you get YES as causing that? You are just being a troll. How about adding something to the conversation rather than just being a dick?

You're the one being the f**king dick. You asked why D* can add YES and E* can't. And the answer is pretty freaking obvious that Hughes is willing to lose money on it and E* isn't.

[James_F]

Where is your proof that they are losing money on it? Hughes might be losing money, but you can't blame that on YES. Find me something that says they are losing money on YES...

[Ronmort]

Originally posted by James_F
Where is your proof that they are losing money on it? Hughes might be losing money, but you can't blame that on YES. Find me something that says they are losing money on YES...

You are absolutely right. There is no proof. Someone speculated that Hughes lost money on sports. I think they were referring to the NFL ST, but believe me, Charlie would grab that package in a minute. One channel, YES, is not the reason DTV is losing money. Sports was one reason that DTV was able to gain millions of customers. Even the high cost of the NFL package has given Directv millions of customers, and that's why sports are important to that service. They also gained thousands of customers in the NYC region when they added YES. If Charlie had the foresight to pay a little extra for that channel, he would be a much bigger player in one of the country's biggest markets. The YES area includes NYC, as well as much of NY state, and large parts of NJ, CT, NE PA, which happens to be going through a population explosion in the Pocono region.

[dbronstein]

Originally posted by James_F
Where is your proof that they are losing money on it? Hughes might be losing money, but you can't blame that on YES. Find me something that says they are losing money on YES...

I can't prove they are losing money on YES any more than you can prove they are making money on it. Here is my reasoning, for better or for worse:

1. E* says they can't carry YES without raising rates, which means if they don't raise rates they would lose money on it, if they are telling the truth.

2. D* is losing a ton of money, which IMO means they are not concerned with short-term profits as much as they are in increasing their subs.

3. Carrying YES is increasing D* subs in the NY area, especially since E* does not have it.

So the most likely conclusion IMO is that D* is willing to take a loss on YES to increase their subs. If you disagree, that's fine. You asked why D* can carry YES without raising rates and E* can't, and I'm just giving what I think is the most probable answer.

Dennis

[dbronstein]

Originally posted by Ronmort
Someone speculated that Hughes lost money on sports. I think they were referring to the NFL ST, but believe me, Charlie would grab that package in a minute.

My understanding is that just on the basis of the fees they pay the NFL for the ST versus the number of people who get it they lose money. But that doesn't factor in the money they make on the people who get D* because of the ST, so overall it could still be a net gain for them.

Dennis

[James_F]

Originally posted by dbronstein


I can't prove they are losing money on YES any more than you can prove they are making money on it. Here is my reasoning, for better or for worse:

1. E* says they can't carry YES without raising rates, which means if they don't raise rates they would lose money on it, if they are telling the truth.
I never said they were making money. I think its a break even prop when you include all the new subs. I doubt they would take a bath on one channel.

2. D* is losing a ton of money, which IMO means they are not concerned with short-term profits as much as they are in increasing their subs.

OK back to the article... Revenue rose 8.3% to $2.47 billion from $2.28 billion. So by your logic adding YES increases their income, not decreases. Sounds like a good deal for DirecTV. One time losses for the XM Radio, DSL and other stuff factors into the huge loss for the year. They are just getting rid of "goodwill" so that they can more on with the new accounting rules.

3. Carrying YES is increasing D* subs in the NY area, especially since E* does not have it.

Don't forget all the MLB Extra Innings Subs around the country.

So the most likely conclusion IMO is that D* is willing to take a loss on YES to increase their subs. If you disagree, that's fine. You asked why D* can carry YES without raising rates and E* can't, and I'm just giving what I think is the most probable answer.

Dennis

Most probable in you opinion (which is fine). YES is a great opportunity for DBS to differentiate itself from cable, but some reason Dish just wants to be a cable company. :shrug:

[FTA Michael]

Jeepers! Trying to "prove" that D* is losing/making money on YES is like trying to prove Albertson's is losing/making money on a sale on paper towels. Some businesses have loss leaders, which lose money by themselves but improve profits overall by increasing the number of customers.

Suppose D* gets enough additional subscribers from its "money-losing" sports packages so that it has better negotiating leverage with all its other content providers. Perhaps D* even has subscriber milestones that automatically trigger rate reductions on some channels. (It could happen.) It's definitely true that more subscribers spread D*'s fixed costs to a lower per-customer amount. Maybe the actuarial folks figured that the profile of a Sunday Ticket subscriber is more likely to buy other high-margin channel packages, and is less likely to churn.

E*, on the other hand, had been trying to be the lowest-price DBS company, so they figure that the increased subscribers gained by adding YES won't be worth the hefty content fee.

I suppose I ought to set this up as a signature or something, as often as I have to say it: The price charged by a business for a product is not tied to the cost of creating that product. The price charged by an intelligent business is designed to maximize profit. Period.

[Ronmort]

YES is not asking for $2 for every subscriber of Dish nor DTV for that matter. The $2 per month fee was for only those subscribers who are in the Yankee designated area. There was a lesser rate for YES to be on the sports packages for the rest of the country. Dish was willing to carry YES, but negotiations broke down when Dish insisted that YES would only be available for AT 150 customers in the NY area. I think my facts are correct on this because I read all this in various articles from back when this controversy arose.

[John_NY]

If what Ronmort is saying is true!

Why did Charlie say that they had to raise the rates to everyone? Does this mean that Charlie lied to the subs to get most of them to be against the YES network; especially those out of the NY, NJ area?

Why did Dish have a problem with putting the Yes Network on AT100? Aren't all the RSN on AT100? Dish actually wanted the Yankee fans, Nets fans, (NY, NJ SPORTS FANS) to pay an extra 10 dollars to get AT150 just to get Yes? Those are a lot of fans to ignore huh dish? Wow! Dish ruined a golden opportunity to increase the number of subscribers in this area.

Again! Dish Network seems to be anti-NY/NJ!

Lets Go Nets!
Lets Go Yankees!

[Ronmort]

I don't think Charlie was essentially lying. It would cost every sub a very slight increase because $2 per sub per month for every NY area sub would increase the cost of programming. What Charlie did and some of his cheerleaders on this forum did was exaggerate the cost of YES. Charlie's failed attempt at merging with Directv will cost subs a $600 million deficit that billionaire Charlie will pass on to his subs, but he and his cheerleaders will continue to use YES as their smokescreen for Charlie's fake concern for keeping costs down from those evil program providers. I don't know if Charlie will ever get YES because he lost an opportunity to cut into Cablevision's customer base, which all went to Directv because they had YES.

Let's look at this another way. When Directv picked up YES, I bet no one dropped the service to go to Cablevision in protest, but Directv did pick up thousands of Cablevision customers in NY-NJ because they did put YES on its system. Charlie wrote it off. Even most of the cable companies in NE PA all added YES so Directv would not increase its subs at their expense.

[Marcus S]

Needless to say, sub costs going up because of everyone's channel wish lists. I have said it many times, I don't want to be forced to subsidize these wish lists just to say at the end of the day, my provider has more channels. The consensus on many polls, many wanted these additional channels, they received them, and now we are all paying for them. YES, is only another wish channel.

Enjoy!

[Ronmort]

No, YES is not on a wish list. It is on Directv and many cable companies in NE PA, CT, NJ, and NY. It's not on Cablevision because of spite. and it's not on Dish because Charlie said no. Those who want YES, do what I am about to do, switch to Directv, and thank all the Dish people who have to chip in $600 million to pay Directv so we Neanderthal sports fans can enjoy the Yankees and Nets on YES. Life can be so sweet sometimes!

[JohnL]

Originally posted by Ronmort
No, YES is not on a wish list. It is on Directv and many cable companies in NE PA, CT, NJ, and NY. It's not on Cablevision because of spite. and it's not on Dish because Charlie said no. Those who want YES, do what I am about to do, switch to Directv, and thank all the Dish people who have to chip in $600 million to pay Directv so we Neanderthal sports fans can enjoy the Yankees and Nets on YES. Life can be so sweet sometimes!

Actually it isn't on Dish because Steinbrenner said NO. Dish had an agreement in principal to carry the channel, but at 110 and also within a higher tiered package. Steinbrenner said no it had to be carried in a lower tiered package. Dish then offered to carry and offer the channel ala carte at $2.00, and give Steinbrenner every dollar that was collected at the ala carte price. Steinbrenner refused, gee if Steinbrenner was so convinced at the worth and popularity of the Yankees then wouldn't he have offered YES under these terms, no of couse not.

Steinbrenner wants to EXTRACT every penny possible from the Fans and he really doesn't give a Rat's butt for you or anybody else.

Hell, this YES thing is really just a money grab that I for one find disgusting. As far as I'm concerned the Yankees can suck eggs, oops sorry Cavier, they can more than afford it.

I love that fact that Charlie wouldn't allow his subscribers to be held for ransom.

John

[Curtis0620]

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030115/law046a_1.html

$681.3M loss is the effect of accounting changes. If you only look at Directv USA, they have done fairly well. It's Directv Latin America and Directv DSL that are the big money losers.

[cnsf]

Originally posted by dbronstein


I can't prove they are losing money on YES any more than you can prove they are making money on it. Here is my reasoning, for better or for worse:

1. E* says they can't carry YES without raising rates, which means if they don't raise rates they would lose money on it, if they are telling the truth.

Read between the lines. This was/is a negotiating tactic. If Cablevision works it out with YES, see how fast Dish follows suit.


2. D* is losing a ton of money, which IMO means they are not concerned with short-term profits as much as they are in increasing their subs.

Read the D* profit article. When you take out the extraordinary charges and profits, they're not doing badly at all and have a very positive outlook. Look for them to pick up another 50,000+ NYC subs pre-baseball season.


3. Carrying YES is increasing D* subs in the NY area, especially since E* does not have it.



Exactly the point. Good future-focused business sense.

[scaredpoet]

Originally posted by cnsf
Read between the lines. This was/is a negotiating tactic. If Cablevision works it out with YES, see how fast Dish follows suit.


Why would Cablevision's politics affect how Dish follows suit?  If the deal isn't good, then it's not good, and that's that.

Put me in the camp of those who don't want to pay for a channel I won't ever watch.  And you also put me in the camp who doesn't understand what the fuss is about.  People are gloating that they're moving to Directv.  Well, guess what?  It's a free market, people.  If you want to move to Directv and get the Yes channel, if it's really that important to you, then that's great!  Do it and quit bellyaching about it.

DISH had their reasons for not carrying it, and I find them respectable.  Calling each other dicks and bickering over it isn't going to change that... it's just going to show how immature people can get over baseball.

[cnsf]

Originally posted by scaredpoet

Put me in the camp of those who don't want to pay for a channel I won't ever watch.  And you also put me in the camp who doesn't understand what the fuss is about.  People are gloating that they're moving to Directv.  Well, guess what?  It's a free market, people.  If you want to move to Directv and get the Yes channel, if it's really that important to you, then that's great!  Do it and quit bellyaching about it.

DISH had their reasons for not carrying it, and I find them respectable.  Calling each other dicks and bickering over it isn't going to change that... it's just going to show how immature people can get over baseball.

One issue at a time, my friend.....

One - Don't want to pay for a channel you're not watching? I can guarantee that unless you watch every channel offered by E* to you, you are already paying for channels you don't watch. Poor argument.

Two - I have decided to move to DirecTV and am not gloating about it. I am extremely disappointed as my experience with E* has been excellent to date. I feel badly for those who CAN'T afford to do so and hope these discussions help change things for them. I personally don't care for myself whether E* carries YES; it's for other NYers and Yankee fans that I care.

Three - I respect all sides for making business decisions. What I don't respect is the bigger concern for the short-term bottom-line, rather than longer-term rewards and viewer satisfaction in the biggest DMA.

Four - I have never once used a non-rational, emotional response in my messages. Your reading them as such is a mistake on your part. And that language is completely unacceptable, regardless.

Five - If you're not a baseball fan and don't have value to add, don't post in this discussion. Keep it on the subject and avoid flame posts and trolling.

[scaredpoet]

Originally posted by cnsf


Five - If you're not a baseball fan and don't have value to add, don't post in this discussion. Keep it on the subject and avoid flame posts and trolling.

As a DISH customer who would probably be affected by rate hikes over YES, I have every right to post in this thread, as much as you do, whether I'm a baseball fan or not.  Your attempt to invalidate my argument on this basis is more than enough to demonstrate your elitist attitude over this.

The fact is that Steinbrenner made an unreasonable demand of cable and dish providers: a new, untested TV network that caters mainly to an audience of Yankees and NY region sports fans that he wanted carried on the most basic service tiers, knowing full well that in most cases, the customers would have to pick up the tab.  He did this only because he wasn't happy with other sports networks valuing this type of coverage at less cash than he wanted to gain from it.  It boils down to immaturity all around.  That is something I'd rather not pay for.

Finally, be careful next time.  Don't mistake lurkers for those of us who are new to DBS, but certainly not new to the YES argument.  If you can't make that distinction, then perhaps it is you who needs to reconsider whether it is appropriate to post here.

[cnsf]

Originally posted by scaredpoet

Finally, be careful next time.  Don't mistake lurkers for those of us who are new to DBS, but certainly not new to the YES argument.  If you can't make that distinction, then perhaps it is you who needs to reconsider whether it is appropriate to post here.

Please PM it if you're so distressed about it. Keep it off the thread if you're going to get unproductively personal.

P.S. Relax, buddy, it's just TV and no one has told you your fees are going up (again).

[scaredpoet]

Originally posted by cnsf


Please PM it if you're so distressed about it. Keep it off the thread if you're going to get unproductively personal.


A typical attempt to discredit those who disagree with you, and a weak one.  But that's okay, I've said my $2.00 worth.  Good luck with D* dude.

[James_F]

He did this only because he wasn't happy with other sports networks valuing this type of coverage at less cash than he wanted to gain from it. It boils down to immaturity all around. That is something I'd rather not pay for.
Just proves where sports falls in Dishs plans. :rolleyes:

[James_F]

Originally posted by scaredpoet


A typical attempt to discredit those who disagree with you, and a weak one.  But that's okay, I've said my $2.00 worth.  Good luck with D* dude.

Enjoy those Yankees games "dude" :rolleyes:

[cnsf]

Originally posted by James_F


Enjoy those Yankees games "dude" :rolleyes:

Thanks "dude" :rolleyes: :D :D

[DCSholtis]

Cant stand the Yankees but dude welcome to D* and to YES......:D:hi: :D

[platinum]

Feel the joy......and enjoy watching Giambi smacking home runs.

[Cheyenne]

Now I know why Dish doesn't launch the channel.

[platinum]

Originally posted by Cheyenne
Now I know why Dish doesn't launch the channel.

Really.....wow.....:rolleyes:

[cnsf]

Originally posted by platinum


Really.....wow.....:rolleyes:

It's cause the Wyoming baseball team is so much better.

:eek: :D

Just kidding, btw.

[platinum]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cnsf


It's cause the Wyoming baseball team is so much better.

:eek: :D

Just kidding, btw. [/QUOT

ROFLMAO......maybe he should get the baseball package......ooops silly me E* doesn't carry that......:rotfl:

[James_F]

Nor do they carry March Mega Madness IMO is the best value sports package out there. Can't get that one on cable.

[bolco]

SI = YES ??

[cnsf]

Originally posted by bolco
SI = YES ??

SI=YES=NO According to E*.

See? There IS a logic flaw here.....

[John_NY]

cnsf

Not only is Charlie cheap but he is also Charlie is anti-NY/NJ. This is why Yes will NEVER see the light of day on his precious Dish Network.

[cnsf]

Originally posted by John_NY
cnsf

Not only is Charlie cheap but he is also Charlie is anti-NY/NJ. This is why Yes will NEVER see the light of day on his precious Dish Network.

John, I kinda disagree, but I understand your sentiment. I think he made a business decision which he thought was best overall for E*, not because he has a vendetta against NY/NJ subs. I just think it was just a short sighted decision.

[davhol]

I was searching Dish Network's website for something else and came upon this URL in the search results. It is a letter to the YES Network asking for their assistance in getting YES to Dish's customers. You can see that Dish is making an attempt at a good-faith negotiation.
http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/yes/letter.htm

[cnsf]

Originally posted by davhol
I was searching Dish Network's website for something else and came upon this URL in the search results. It is a letter to the YES Network asking for their assistance in getting YES to Dish's customers. You can see that Dish is making an attempt at a good-faith negotiation.
http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/yes/letter.htm


uh.....11 months old.....AND seems weird that no mention of including them in a package is included (AT150, NY locals, AT100, etc.).

Where is the effort now for the 203 season?

[davhol]

Yes, the original date of the letter is 11 months old. The search results at Dish indicated it was last modified in November of last year. The point I guess I was trying to make is that there _was_ a concerted effort on the part of Dish, on behalf of it's customers, to carry this channel. I think there are a lot of folks "out there" that are trying to accuse Dish (e.g. Charlie Ergen) of stalling or trying to "screw" Yankees sports fans. This letter tends to indicate otherwise, and gives a hint that it might be the YES network with which any anger should be registered.

[Ronmort]

You're taking this out of context. The rest of the letter asking for a la carte carriage of YES would be totally unacceptable to YES. Once you start a trend like this with one carrier, every cable company will demand the same deal. Next it will be another channel forced into this kind of arrangement and so on. There are channels on Dish which I may never watch. I'm sure their added cost will be more than YES, but I'm satisfied they are on for those who enjoy them, and who knows, some day I may put one of them on and actually enjoy the programming. One example, my wife loves Lifetime Movie Network. I never even dreamed of watching anything on that channel, but I actually sat down with her and watched a couple of very good movies. By the way, she has watched a couple of baseball and basketball games with me. She actually enjoyed them, and she claims she doesn't like sports. That's the upside of variety on satellite tv.

[John_NY]

That sounds like the same deal cablevision was offering YES. Dish knew that there was no way YES would accept that deal. The only reason they wrote that letter is to prove to the customers that they made some type effort to get YES.

Bullcrap Charlie! Put YES on AT100!