Is DirecTV *KILLING* their Legacy Receivers?

[Maverickster]

This thread was started over at AVS: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=980032

I've expressed some disbelief in the thread, but I thought it was worth mentioning over here to see if anyone can either confirm or deny this since, on the whole, the info over here tends to be pretty reliable.

So, is DirecTV really affirmatively killing legacy receivers in a move to force those subscribers to MPEG4 equipment?

--Mav

[litzdog911]

That's crazy talk. Yes, there was a problem accidentally introduced that affected these older receivers which has now been fixed. No, I cannot believe that DirecTV did this on purpose to "force" subscribers to new equipment. After all, they still support my original Sony Receivers that are nearly 10-yrs old now, along with the original Ultimate TV DVRs that have long been discontinued.

[P Smith]

Perhaps D* accept old tactics from E* when they introduced "ViP only" flag and blocked certain (High price) models: 6000, 921,942 from view new HD MPEG-2 (!) channels and forced to switch to ViP models.

[mhayes70]

Yeah, I heard of that. But, that is crazy. Directv is not going to kill all the old receivers. A problem I have had around here with everyone I know that has old RCA receivers is that local from all over the country was showing up in the guide on those receivers. Unplugging and pluggind the receiver back in corrected that issue.

[Earl Bonovich]

DirecTV is not killing the old receivers... Period.

There was something introduced to the SAT stream, that caused those units havock. Plain and simple. They are all the same core system, with a different name slapped on the front.

(And a reason why DirecTV used multi-manufatures now)

There are several MILLION "sony" branded receivers out there.
It would be absolutely absurd to just "kill" them out of the blue

[Ken S]

Sounds to me like DirecTV's QA group is doing their usual fine job. I would doubt it's any sort of conspiracy...just the usual sloppiness.

[tronn]

^sloppiness indeed. i was 4 days without D* service since i have a legacy Hughes hd htl. service came back on Friday morning, so i'm cool now, but it also served to me as a reminder to upgrade. just wish Directv could send me an HR20-700. I need OTA, but if the HR21 is all they have then i would just have to accept it and get that adapter later on. :-(

[Earl Bonovich]

Sounds to me like DirecTV's QA group is doing their usual fine job. I would doubt it's any sort of conspiracy...just the usual sloppiness.

So every QA group catches everything...

Their QA process is pretty darn detailed... especially for some of the things like this.

And with out going into much detail (as I can't)...
I think a LOT of you would be shocked at the lengths they go through to make sure that every receiver ever made to work with DirecTV, still works today.


But as the phrase goes... "Stuff" happens.

[Draconis]

Remember, they are introducing new features/information into the data stream that the old receivers were never manufactured to handle. In some cases there is now more guide data than some older receivers have RAM.

I think that they are doing a great job keeping the older receivers online while also introducing new features/programming with the few hiccups they have had.

You can ask any software engineer, the two words they fear the most are “backward compatibility”.

[litzdog911]

Remember, they are introducing new features/information into the data stream that the old receivers were never manufactured to handle. In some cases there is now more guide data than some older receivers have RAM.

I think that they are doing a great job keeping the older receivers online while also introducing new features/programming with the few hiccups they have had.

You can ask any software engineer, the two words they fear the most are “backward compatibility”.

+1

[RobertE]

There is really no incentive for them to intentionally kill off old boxes. It's going to cost them to replace the box. The cost of the box itself, shipping and/or a service call to set it up.

Personally though, I do think they need to phase out older boxes.

[CJTE]

There is really no incentive for them to intentionally kill off old boxes. It's going to cost them to replace the box. The cost of the box itself, shipping and/or a service call to set it up.

Personally though, I do think they need to phase out older boxes.

If it aint broke, dont fix it?

[farjo08]

Not to mention that they have been offering free HD-DVR upgrades to those with legacy equiptment. I am not sure if it extends beyond that, but while I don't use my HR10-250 for HD (connected to an SD set) I took them up on the offer and just reloted the HR10 to replace a SAT-T60. I do intend to get an HD TV for that room, but considering they are providing free upgrades and willing to relocate the one that is being upgraded it makes no sense for them to "kill" off older ones in an attempt to get people to upgrade (buy) new equiptment.

I am sure they want everyone on the latest equiptment and they seem to be doing the right thing for HD-DVR. Not sure where they stand on other (SD) receivers and DVRs but I can't honestly believe anyone would think DTV would be doing something like this on purpose.

[Grydlok]

I had 4 service calls the last 3 days with Hughes HD receivers getting a Channel not available message. A couple of co-workers got the same type of TC's also.

[Jeremy W]

If it aint broke, dont fix it?
But they are broke from DirecTV's perspective. They have to maintain a broadcast system that is fully compatible with every receiver they've ever put out. If they were able to chop off all of the legacy crap and only support the new DirecTV-branded receivers, everything would be so much easier.

[CJTE]

But they are broke from DirecTV's perspective. They have to maintain a broadcast system that is fully compatible with every receiver they've ever put out. If they were able to chop off all of the legacy crap and only support the new DirecTV-branded receivers, everything would be so much easier.

Unfortunately, thats going to cost somebody alot of money... $20 S&H per legacy receiver. Enough customers figure it out (like this board) and then they've got a riot on their hands.

[tuff bob]

But they are broke from DirecTV's perspective. They have to maintain a broadcast system that is fully compatible with every receiver they've ever put out.

They freely choose to do that than pro actively upgrade equipment.

[Ken S]

So every QA group catches everything...

Their QA process is pretty darn detailed... especially for some of the things like this.

And with out going into much detail (as I can't)...
I think a LOT of you would be shocked at the lengths they go through to make sure that every receiver ever made to work with DirecTV, still works today.


But as the phrase goes... "Stuff" happens.

Obviously it wasn't detailed enough. We're not talking about a mom and pop shop with limited resources. They can do better...and while you won't admit it...you know they can to.

[Jeremy W]

They freely choose to do that than pro actively upgrade equipment.
It's all cost vs. benefit. For now, the cost of doing a wholesale upgrade of all receivers outweighs the benefit of not having to maintain 10+ years of legacy equipment. Eventually, the scales will tip in the other direction.

[inkahauts]

Obviously it wasn't detailed enough. We're not talking about a mom and pop shop with limited resources. They can do better...and while you won't admit it...you know they can to.

Hubble telescope? The Mars Satellite that was destroyed on the other side of Mars because they improperly calculated American and metric calculations... I don't think NASA operates on a small budget either, but frankly stuff happens no matter how many checks you have...

[Earl Bonovich]

Obviously it wasn't detailed enough. We're not talking about a mom and pop shop with limited resources. They can do better...and while you won't admit it...you know they can to.

There are days that I wonder why I even bother.

Doesn't matter how much I explain it...
It is EXTREMELY detailed... but "stuff" still happens.

No testing is perfect... end of story.

[Stuart Sweet]

This is why we have things like The Cutting Edge, because no amount of inhouse testing is going to catch every gremlin. I absolutely cannot believe that DIRECTV would intentionally and knowingly let software loose that would cause problems on a massive scale.

[fredandbetty]

There are days that I wonder why I even bother.

Doesn't matter how much I explain it...
It is EXTREMELY detailed... but "stuff" still happens.

No testing is perfect... end of story.

EXACTLY! That's why we are here, to help each other out as much as possible ! :)

[Carl Spock]

I absolutely cannot believe that DIRECTV would intentionally and knowingly let software loose that would cause problems on a massive scale.
Every time a CSR gets a service phone call, it costs DirecTV money, especially if the CSRs can't solve the problem and have no idea that is the case. Thousands of man hours were wasted this last week by CSRs trying to help customers get their receivers back on line to no avail. If the whole reason behind this outage was for DirecTV to make more money, they sure did a terrible job of that.

[hdtvfan0001]

" Is DirecTV *KILLING* their Legacy Receivers "

No bodies found, no warrants issued. :D

[Ken S]

There are days that I wonder why I even bother.

Doesn't matter how much I explain it...
It is EXTREMELY detailed... but "stuff" still happens.

No testing is perfect... end of story.

Earl,

Yes, "stuff" happens. Was this an accident or something that could have been found with testing and prevented?

My belief is that there are too many "stuff happens" that could have been tested for and avoided. I guess every receiver in my house rebooting yesterday was just "stuff" happens.

Maybe there's a reason for it? Maybe they could let their customers know beforehand with a system message?

Ahh...well, I guess stuff happens and they couldn't do that either.

If it's too difficult you don't have to "bother" to respond. I'll watch channel 100 instead.

[hasan]

Remember, they are introducing new features/information into the data stream that the old receivers were never manufactured to handle. In some cases there is now more guide data than some older receivers have RAM.

I think that they are doing a great job keeping the older receivers online while also introducing new features/programming with the few hiccups they have had.

You can ask any software engineer, the two words they fear the most are “backward compatibility”.

Nearly 2 years ago I had the same thing happen with one of my old receivers. It had been perfectly stable for several years. All of a sudden it would hang and/or spontanously reboot a few times per week. This all began when D* started "changing" things. I saw the handwriting on the wall and upgraded. It looked to me like it was going to be harder and harder to maintain the old receiver in the face of frequent changes that were only going to accelerate. Actually, I had this happen with two different receivers, one of which was one of the first HD receivers available.

As it turns out, the legacy problems may have gotten fixed back then, but I had jumped the gun and there was no going back. I'm glad I did. So, it was no biggie to me, but this latest round is what I had anticipated would happen...it has to be incredibly difficult to keep multi-systems running off a new stream, even if it's just guide data.

[Mark Holtz]

At this point, this DBSTalker is going to hang on to his DirecTiVo Series II for as long as possible, even if it means forgoing the HDTV lineup. He hopes again hope that DirecTV will reintroduce the TiVo software in a intergrated IRD and make it compatible with the new MPEG4 stream.

Of course, by then, one wonders how big the hard drives are going to be.... still... double 750GB hard drives.... how much DVR material will that be? (Dreams on....)

[Ken S]

This is why we have things like The Cutting Edge, because no amount of inhouse testing is going to catch every gremlin. I absolutely cannot believe that DIRECTV would intentionally and knowingly let software loose that would cause problems on a massive scale.

Stuart,

If your response was directed towards me...I agree with you. I don't think DirecTV would do this type of thing intentionally...I just don't think they take enough care in their procedures and testing of their hardware and it appears lately...their signal.

They can do better.

[Stuart Sweet]

Earl,

Yes, "stuff" happens. Was this an accident or something that could have been found with testing and prevented?

My belief is that there are too many "stuff happens" that could have been tested for and avoided. I guess every receiver in my house rebooting yesterday was just "stuff" happens.

Maybe there's a reason for it? Maybe they could let their customers know beforehand with a system message?

Ahh...well, I guess stuff happens and they couldn't do that either.

If it's too difficult you don't have to "bother" to respond. I'll watch channel 100 instead.

Ken, I'll respond, if that's ok.

DIRECTV's testing, like everyone's, is not perfect. I am still delving into the reasoning behind the events this past week and I don't know if we "normal folk" will ever know the real reasoning. But I can tell you that DIRECTV is in the business of providing service. CSR calls and new receivers cost money. Happy customers make money. Simple math, no? There were clearly some issues but I don't believe for a minute that anyone tried to kill old receivers, or annoy people by remote-rebooting their receivers. If a mistake was made, one that could have prevented, you can bet that someone's getting hollered at for it, not congratulated.

[Mark20]

Test data is one thing and - yes - extremely detailed from D*. But when all the live data is put together the oops sometimes show up. Been there, seen it.