Whats the point of the HR21?

[inazsully]

It's black and it can't do OTA. So, why go to the expense of building it at all. Just make the 100/700 black and if you don't need the OTA, big deal, someday maybe you will. I can't imagine anybody here in Phoenix wanting the HR21, or even accepting it.

[Xaa]

Costs less to manufacture. Envisions a time when enough locals are served with HD over the sat that DirecTv doesn't need to support OTA at all.

[4yanx]

I do wish that there was a choice of black or silver for decor considerations. Giving that choice can't cost much.

[say-what]

It will have OTA as an add-on.

[Xaa]

I do wish that there was a choice of black or silver for decor considerations. Giving that choice can't cost much.
Paint it.

[veryoldschool]

Paint it.
But "we" don't own them so that would be costly.

[Xaa]

You got a point VOS.

[Earl Bonovich]

It's black and it can't do OTA. So, why go to the expense of building it at all. Just make the 100/700 black and if you don't need the OTA, big deal, someday maybe you will. I can't imagine anybody here in Phoenix wanting the HR21, or even accepting it.

Why would no one in Phoenix want the HR21?

Phoenix currently has 6 of the HD-locals available via SAT
What about all those folks that can't install an OTA antenna?
Why would they want an HR20?

As XAA pointed out...
The primary reason for the HR21... the cost of ATSC in the units.

[Doug Brott]

As has been noted many times, the point is to save DIRECTV money. Most people do not use the OTA portion in the advanced receivers .. DIRECTV saves money by not putting the OTA tuners inside the box .. For those that wish to use OTA, the AM21 will be available soon.

[breevesdc]

I will eventually get another HR2x unit when MRV is available. However, I'm concerned about the lag in software updates to the HR21 vs. the HR20. Now that HR21's are the only unit available for purchase, I will have one of each. One will get new software and the other will take months to get the same features.

Will D* eventually get these units in sync (i.e.- on the same release schedule)? Or are there that many differences between the HR20 and HR21 that it is required to develop for them separately?

[Earl Bonovich]

I will eventually get another HR2x unit when MRV is available. However, I'm concerned about the lag in software updates to the HR21 vs. the HR20. Now that HR21's are the only unit available for purchase, I will have one of each. One will get new software and the other will take months to get the same features.

Will D* eventually get these units in sync (i.e.- on the same release schedule)? Or are there that many differences between the HR20 and HR21 that it is required to develop for them separately?


If you look at the history...

The HR20-700 always (And will for a while) get the updates first.
There was a semi-long lag for the HR20-100

Now that difference in time is much slower, especially with relation to the National Release level.

As the HR21 population increases... that lag time will also reduce in size.

Yes, there is enough difference between the two, that it does take some time... But that time difference will reduce.

And eventually, it will probably flip over, were you start to see the HR21 as the primary platform, as it numbers will be larger then then the HR20's

[MIAMI1683]

I will eventually get another HR2x unit when MRV is available. However, I'm concerned about the lag in software updates to the HR21 vs. the HR20. Now that HR21's are the only unit available, I will have one of each. One will get new software and the other will take months to get the same features.

Will D* eventually get these units in sync (i.e.- on the same release schedul)? Or are there that many differences between the HR20 and HR21 that it is required to develop for them separately?

First my hr21 and hrxx's are on the same software right now. So it doesn't take months. The hr20 is thier test unit for software upgrades. It gets it first, but usually with in a couple of weeks ( I think 2 the last time) the hr21 get's thiers. (see the CE forum for more on that) I think you can get one now with out having to wait and use the DVR portion now. MRV will be cool but I " record " certain things on certain tv's so it works out. Now as for picture I still say my hr21 is better then either on hy hr20's. Thats just my opinon though. Maybe thats why, with an uodate in chipset and stuff maybe it got a little crisper. I could be wrong though it could just be me. :grin:

[glennb]

But "we" don't own them so that would be costly.

Buy it, then paint it any color you want.
:)

[inazsully]

Why would no one in Phoenix want the HR21?

Phoenix currently has 6 of the HD-locals available via SAT
What about all those folks that can't install an OTA antenna?
Why would they want an HR20?

As XAA pointed out...
The primary reason for the HR21... the cost of ATSC in the units.

With the HR20 I get the following HD channels OTA, 61-1 (Smallville and Supernatural,) channel 8-1 PBSHD, and channel 45-1 (Suns games in HD). These OTA channels are strongly received with a $30 indoor antenna from Wal- Mart. The other advantage is when the sat signal goes out because of weather conditions I can easily switch over to the local HD feed. Correct me if I'm wrong but does not the OTA feed come in with less compression?

Does the reduced cost of manufacturing of the HR21 (because of ATSC) really equal a return on investment considering the cost of inventorying a separate product? It must because they are doing it.

[reggie]

It's funny you ask that (to me anyway). Having never had a receiver or dvr that received OTA, I could never figure out what the stink was about. After I learned that some other dvr's had it, I understood a little. And I understand it is important for those whose locals are not carried by DirecTV. But again, having never had it or needed it, just isn't that important to me.

I suppose it is like DLB to me. If you had it and used it only to lose it, it is big. But as I get older, the memory fades.......

[Xaa]

With the HR20 I get the following HD channels OTA, 61-1 (Smallville and Supernatural,) channel 8-1 PBSHD, and channel 45-1 (Suns games in HD). These OTA channels are strongly received with a $30 indoor antenna from Wal- Mart. The other advantage is when the sat signal goes out because of weather conditions I can easily switch over to the local HD feed. Correct me if I'm wrong but does not the OTA feed come in with less compression?

Does the reduced cost of manufacturing of the HR21 (because of ATSC) really equal a return on investment considering the cost of inventorying a separate product? It must because they are doing it.

They don't intend to inventory both models, only the HR21.

Also, unless you're watching live at the very moment of weather, you won't know to switch and if you are a watcher of live TV just hook that $30 antenna directly into your TV. The DVR is only important if you're time shifting.

I see no difference between my OTA and the MPEG4 from the dish, but I will concede that technically there must be some.

[veryoldschool]

Correct me if I'm wrong but does not the OTA feed come in with less compression? yes and no. OTA is MPEG2 which needs more bandwidth and the OTA HD bandwidth is shared with sub channels, so they "can" take away from the signal for HD.Does the reduced cost of manufacturing of the HR21 (because of ATSC) really equal a return on investment considering the cost of inventorying a separate product? It must because they are doing it. Having an add-on ATSC tuner will answer those that need OTA and "I think" the manufacturing lines are shifting over to the HR21.

[Doug Brott]

Having an add-on ATSC tuner will answer those that need OTA and "I think" the manufacturing lines are shifting over to the HR21.

This is my understanding as well .. Once the AM21 (OTA add-on) is widely available, the HR20 will cease manufacturing .. In fact, it's conceivable that that has already occurred depending on how they have staged their inventories .. I really don't know the answer to that.

[breevesdc]

Thanks Earl/Miami,

That's good news. For some reason, I thought it took longer for releases to reach the HR21. I may go ahead and take the plunge now so I can start participating in the CE program. I'm too chicken to try it on my main DVR in the TV room.

Brian

[4yanx]

Paint it.


%#(&*% it.

[Xaa]

Huh? Got something to say, say it. Don't be passive, let it out.

Seriously, people paint their CE equipment all the time. There's a special paint made.

[Doug Brott]

Xaa, I believe the point was that painting is really not an option that most folks want to entertain. Nothing wrong with that thought, BTW.

[Xaa]

I couldn't tell if it was profanity directed at me. It doesn't really take a bunch of special characters to say "I don't feel comfortable painting my equipment..." Those are usually reserved for profanity.

[pratttech]

Even if D* gets all of one's locals up on a satellite, there will always be those of us in metro areas that can receive multiple DMAs with OTA signals. Until laws change they will never be able to get around that and so can never eliminate all need for OTA.

[Stuart Sweet]

:backtotop

The point of the HR21 is to be a portal to the excellent variety of programming available on DIRECTV. It would most certainly not exist otherwise. It is also less expensive to make and possibly more durable (due to lower component count and lower internal temps) than its older brother.

[Xaa]

Even if D* gets all of one's locals up on a satellite, there will always be those of us in metro areas that can receive multiple DMAs with OTA signals. Until laws change they will never be able to get around that and so can never eliminate all need for OTA.

Agreed pratttech, but DirecTv doesn't need to see ALL need for OTA eliminated, just that which creates a competitive barrier in the marketplace. They don't care if you can get every single channel, they only want to provide those that if you can't get them will force you to cable. Generally the big 4 gets them most of the way there.

[harsh]

Envisions a time when enough locals are served with HD over the sat that DirecTv doesn't need to support OTA at all.It envisions a time that is still several years coming. It may never come for some markets or stations.

HR21: A device that is way ahead of its time.

[Doug Brott]

As Stuart noted .. :backtotop .. Please!

[pratttech]

Agreed pratttech, but DirecTv doesn't need to see ALL need for OTA eliminated, just that which creates a competitive barrier in the marketplace. They don't care if you can get every single channel, they only want to provide those that if you can't get them will force you to cable. Generally the big 4 gets them most of the way there.

Very true. I'm actually in the Providence/New Bedford DMA, but only get ABC and NBC (HD) from D* because of no LOS to 119. I get the local LIN stations in HD OTA, so even if I had LOS to 119 I'd still use OTA.

It also seems that D* only carries the first channel from a broadcaster and you would miss all the - (dash) channels. With no OTA it is the Boston DMA I'd especially miss, definitely local PBS station WGBH which puts out 6 channels: 2-1, 2-2, 44-1, 44-2, 44-3, 44-4!

[Xaa]

It envisions a time that is still several years coming. It may never come for some markets or stations.

HR21: A device that is way ahead of its time.

:) Indeed.

[Xaa]

Very true. I'm actually in the Providence/New Bedford DMA, but only get ABC and NBC (HD) from D* because of no LOS to 119. I get the local LIN stations in HD OTA, so even if I had LOS to 119 I'd still use OTA.

It also seems that D* only carries the first channel from a broadcaster and you would miss all the - (dash) channels. With no OTA it is the Boston DMA I'd especially miss, definitely local PBS station WGBH which puts out 6 channels: 2-1, 2-2, 44-1, 44-2, 44-3, 44-4!


I know. I think they've chosen with their limitations the point where people will still buy and give up things they would like to have if all other things were equal. I like my -2 weather from the locals, but gave them up for the convenience of receiving everything from the Sat. I think that's where they are directing their efforts.

[hombresoto]

It's funny you ask that (to me anyway). Having never had a receiver or dvr that received OTA, I could never figure out what the stink was about. After I learned that some other dvr's had it, I understood a little. And I understand it is important for those whose locals are not carried by DirecTV. But again, having never had it or needed it, just isn't that important to me.

I suppose it is like DLB to me. If you had it and used it only to lose it, it is big. But as I get older, the memory fades.......

Here is my personal experience..
Number of HD installs in the last year- approx -300
Number of off air antennas installed- 0
Number of off air antennas requested- 0
Number of customers asking about OTA reception- 0
Percentage of OTA antennas eliminated with an mpeg 4 upgrade- 100

I think DirecTV made a smart decision, and 99% of directv customers will appreciate the price break...

[jjohns]

Gosh. With the HR21 being such a wonderful product, ahead of its time and the HR20's ceasing to be distributed, I am certain that a wonderful company like DirecTV will offer free upgrades from the HR20's after it no longer provides software support for them.

[Mike D-CO5]

I wish that the add on unit for ota would allow upto 3 or 4 things to be recorded at one time. That would make a lot of people want these addon units. I might get one myself If they aren't to expensive and can be added by me and not installed. I am sure that I will get an hr 21 next week when they install at my house.

[Xaa]

Gosh. With the HR21 being such a wonderful product, ahead of its time and the HR20's ceasing to be distributed, I am certain that a wonderful company like DirecTV will offer free upgrades from the HR20's after it no longer provides software support for them.

DirecTv generally has done very low cost upgrades, but I wouldn't expect the software development for the HR20 to end any time soon or even while the HR21 is still very relevant in the marketplace.

You might be able to get one for close to nothing today if you call and ask.

[SDizzle]

DirecTv generally has done very low cost upgrades, but I wouldn't expect the software development for the HR20 to end any time soon or even while the HR21 is still very relevant in the marketplace.

You might be able to get one for close to nothing today if you call and ask.

Very True.

[Doug Brott]

Gosh. With the HR21 being such a wonderful product, ahead of its time and the HR20's ceasing to be distributed, I am certain that a wonderful company like DirecTV will offer free upgrades from the HR20's after it no longer provides software support for them.

The HR20 and HR21 are fairly close in design and chipset. I'd suspect both to be maintained for the foreseeable future such that they are all pretty much on par with each other over the long haul.

[Thaedron]

The HR20 and HR21 are fairly close in design and chipset. I'd suspect both to be maintained for the foreseeable future such that they are all pretty much on par with each other over the long haul.

Case in point, DirecTV still has UltimateTV, and Tivo units in use. Tivo is it's own can of worms, but the fact that they are still supporting users with UltimateTV I think dispells the notion that the HR20 will be left by the side of the road to rot.

The HR20 and HR21 are "functionally equivalent" platforms except for the obviously not present ATSC tuners in the HR21. I can't imagine how anyone would think the HR20 won't be supported for many months and years. While the platforms are functionally equivalent, the software running on each isn't 100% in sync, but the gap is closing. I would guess that within 3-4 months (if not sooner) the NR software for the Hr20 and hR21 platforms will be identical with respect to feature set.

[RobertE]

Another week, another No OTA on the HR21 thread, blah, blah, blah, blah.

:beatdeadhorse:

[inazsully]

Here is my personal experience..
Number of HD installs in the last year- approx -300
Number of off air antennas installed- 0
Number of off air antennas requested- 0
Number of customers asking about OTA reception- 0
Percentage of OTA antennas eliminated with an mpeg 4 upgrade- 100

I think DirecTV made a smart decision, and 99% of directv customers will appreciate the price break...

Those are some pretty stark numbers. In my area almost every home has an outside antenna and I have hooked up many to the HR20. I have also demonstrated how well an inside antenna works. I'll repeat my original question in a slightly different manner. If you were offered the HR20 or the HR21 why in the world would you opt for the HR21? Color, maybe. Because you don't want OTA ability, never. I remember when there was a huge outcry on this site bitching and complaining every day as to when "D" was going to engage the OTA feature on the original HR20-700. It was worse than the "HD Extra Package" outcry. Now out of 300 installs nobody wants it?

[carl6]

inazsully,

The difference between this forum and the 300 customers hombresoto serviced is exactly the point you need to keep in mind. We (the users of this forum) are NOT representative of the typical or average DirecTV customer. We possibly represent one tenth of one percent at the most (that would be something in the range of 16,000 customers). The other 15,984,000 customers just don't care about OTA.

Carl

[houskamp]

of course the numbers vary depending on the area.. (wether your area has all the locals)
have a hard time selling directv HD without NBC here..

[sheureka]

Or whether your area has any OTA at all! I'm at least 100 miles from the nearest TV broadcaster, and I'm sure there are thousands of others, particularly in the west, in that situation. - sheureka

[HoTat2]

inazsully,

The difference between this forum and the 300 customers hombresoto serviced is exactly the point you need to keep in mind. We (the users of this forum) are NOT representative of the typical or average DirecTV customer. We possibly represent one tenth of one percent at the most (that would be something in the range of 16,000 customers). The other 15,984,000 customers just don't care about OTA.

Carl

Agreed;

And I really don't understand the complaints at this point. When the HR21 had no innate OTA capability, there was a lot of beefing taking place on numerous threads, and I would say rightly so. But now at CES2008 Directv has delivered with the AM21 add-on, which looks very impressive to me. Though we will have to wait awhile for its rollout (circa March 2008). The only question is how well it will actually perform.

As for the economic wisdom of Directv's choice to go with this modular approach of an HR21-AM21 combo. That is a corporate decision Directv made and is frankly their business. So whether Directv ultimately wins or loses financially with this design should be none of our concern.

Unless you own stock in the company or something :)

[lwilli201]

Could be Directv wants to eliminate 2 tuners from the HR2X so that there is two less tuners to go bad. With the add on OTA solution, if one of those tuners go bad only the add on has to be replaced, not the more expensive HD DVR.

I had 3 HR20 (one has been replaced with an HR21) and an H20. I do not have OTA.

[inazsully]

inazsully,

The difference between this forum and the 300 customers hombresoto serviced is exactly the point you need to keep in mind. We (the users of this forum) are NOT representative of the typical or average DirecTV customer. We possibly represent one tenth of one percent at the most (that would be something in the range of 16,000 customers). The other 15,984,000 customers just don't care about OTA.

Carl

Of course there is no way to prove or disprove those numbers but I think there is way more interested in OTA capabilities then you think. Probably more in the greater Seattle area alone. As more and more people buy HD displays and actually shop for and compare HD service providers I see many more educated consumers. My installer hooked up my antenna and downloaded the channels without me asking him to.
To say that the other 15,984,000 customers just don't care about OTA is a very elitist attitude.

[BattleScott]

Agreed;

And I really don't understand the complaints at this point. When the HR21 had no innate OTA capability, there was a lot of beefing taking place on numerous threads, and I would say rightly so. But now at CES2008 Directv has delivered with the AM21 add-on, which looks very impressive to me. Though we will have to wait awhile for its rollout (circa March 2008). The only question is how well it will actually perform.

As for the economic wisdom of Directv's choice to go with this modular approach of an HR21-AM21 combo. That is a corporate decision Directv made and is frankly their business. So whether Directv ultimately wins or loses financially with this design should be none of our concern.

Unless you own stock in the company or something :)

Another aspect to the decision to split the tuner from the DVR is that in about a year so (in theory) there are going to be a lot of DirecTV households in areas with no LiL service (SD or HD) that will have no way to receive their local broadcast stations. This little add-on ATSC tuner module will be a perfect solution when coupled to an R15 or standard SD receiver.

[veryoldschool]

Of course there is no way to prove or disprove those numbers but I think there is way more interested in OTA capabilities then you think. Probably more in the greater Seattle area alone. As more and more people buy HD displays and actually shop for and compare HD service providers I see many more educated consumers. My installer hooked up my antenna and downloaded the channels without me asking him to.
To say that the other 15,984,000 customers just don't care about OTA is a very elitist attitude.
From a mid-west installer the numbers were one in 40 installs cared about OTA.
I think this is very much a YMMV, and as such, none of us, since we're "here" have any idea of the "real" numbers.

[EXTREMUM]

There's no reason for the HR2x to have an OTA tuner.

1. There's no diplexer that supports the 103b, and the 6x8 multiswitch doesn't support OTA/RF, so why should the new 21 series support it?

2. Cost of production. Don't spend money on manufacturing parts that can't be utilized properly with your existing equipment.

3. Many customers are ditching their OTA, since DTV supports HD locals.

3. Just run a separate line to your living room television, from your OTA or cable hookup.

[Pink Fairy]

Next month I will be getting an HD DVR. And honestly, I do not care which version. The locals I watch enough to warrant needing HD versions for DIRECTV already provides me.

Black would look nicer with our setup - but I really could care less because the functionality is the same for me.

[veryoldschool]

There's no reason for the HR2x to have an OTA tuner.

1. There's no diplexer that supports the 103b, and the 6x8 multiswitch doesn't support OTA/RF, so why should the new 21 series support it?
Once past the BBC, diplexers work fine & the new SWM8 has an OTA diplexer built in.

[hombresoto]

Those are some pretty stark numbers. In my area almost every home has an outside antenna and I have hooked up many to the HR20. I have also demonstrated how well an inside antenna works. I'll repeat my original question in a slightly different manner. If you were offered the HR20 or the HR21 why in the world would you opt for the HR21? Color, maybe. Because you don't want OTA ability, never. I remember when there was a huge outcry on this site bitching and complaining every day as to when "D" was going to engage the OTA feature on the original HR20-700. It was worse than the "HD Extra Package" outcry. Now out of 300 installs nobody wants it?

I also service the boston DMA which has had HD lil for quite a while. I also never bring up OTA, as it isn't worth it for me to install an OTA antenna, run the extra line, etc, etc, etc.
Again, most people either don't know about OTA, or don't care. Don't get me wrong, I have OTA and use it occasionally. When there is a program I want to watch and I can choose between OTA or sat, I ALWAYS choose OTA, especially if the program is SD via sat, and SD via OTA. The OTA straight digital signal is miles ahead of the compressed mpeg2 SD signal via sat. DirecTV really needs to do something about the overly compressed SD signal, it looks horrible on most channels, but that has been talked about over and over and over...

[man_rob]

It envisions a time that is still several years coming. It may never come for some markets or stations.

HR21: A device that is way ahead of its time.

Luckily, DirecTV is quickly adding HD locals, (How many does Dish have vs. DirecTV?) and they also have an OTA solution.

[HoTat2]

Another aspect to the decision to split the tuner from the DVR is that in about a year so (in theory) there are going to be a lot of DirecTV households in areas with no LiL service (SD or HD) that will have no way to receive their local broadcast stations. This little add-on ATSC tuner module will be a perfect solution when coupled to an R15 or standard SD receiver.

While I can't say for certain, I sincerely doubt that the necessary USB software drivers will, and/or can, be developed by Directv for the R15 to support the AM21 ATSC tuner, considering that almost all LiLs for the entire country are already provided in SD format via satellite by the R15 and other SD receivers.

Perhaps the future R16s maybe. But even this should not be needed, since with the eventual migration of all HD programming from the legacy MPEG-2 Ku band at 110/119 degrees to join their newer cousins on the MPEG-4 Ka band. The synergy between bandwidth and spot beam frequency reuse, along with the currently available spectrum for small market LiLs at 72.5 degrees. There should be plenty of room for Directv to accommodate more SD LiLs to present or new markets anywhere in the CONUS, Alaska, or Hawaii if necessary.

[Earl Bonovich]

While I can't say for certain, I sincerely doubt that the necessary USB software drivers will, and/or can, be developed by Directv for the R15 to support the AM21 ATSC tuner, considering that almost all LiLs for the entire country are already provided in SD format via satellite by the R15 and other SD receivers.

Perhaps the future R16s maybe. But even this should not be needed, since with the eventual migration of all HD programming from the legacy MPEG-2 Ku band at 110/119 degrees to join their newer cousins on the MPEG-4 Ka band. The synergy between bandwidth and spot beam frequency reuse, along with the currently available spectrum for small market LiLs at 72.5 degrees. There should be plenty of room for Directv to accommodate more SD LiLs to present or new markets anywhere in the CONUS, Alaska, or Hawaii if necessary.

I can confirm now...
The R15 will never support the AM21 tuner. It would need a lot more then just some USB drivers to drive it.

Don't expect in the R16s either.

If you must access ATSC, you will need an HD based receiver.

[mhayes70]

I can confirm now...
The R15 will never support the AM21 tuner. It would need a lot more then just some USB drivers to drive it.

Don't expect in the R16s either.

If you must access ATSC, you will need an HD based receiver.

Ok, thanks for the info.

[BattleScott]

While I can't say for certain, I sincerely doubt that the necessary USB software drivers will, and/or can, be developed by Directv for the R15 to support the AM21 ATSC tuner, considering that almost all LiLs for the entire country are already provided in SD format via satellite by the R15 and other SD receivers.

Perhaps the future R16s maybe. But even this should not be needed, since with the eventual migration of all HD programming from the legacy MPEG-2 Ku band at 110/119 degrees to join their newer cousins on the MPEG-4 Ka band. The synergy between bandwidth and spot beam frequency reuse, along with the currently available spectrum for small market LiLs at 72.5 degrees. There should be plenty of room for Directv to accommodate more SD LiLs to present or new markets anywhere in the CONUS, Alaska, or Hawaii if necessary.

There are many smaller markets and rural customers that will never have LiL, SD or HD, from Sat providers. The ATSC tuner in the AM21 will be the perfect solution for them.

[BattleScott]

I can confirm now...
The R15 will never support the AM21 tuner. It would need a lot more then just some USB drivers to drive it.

Don't expect in the R16s either.

If you must access ATSC, you will need an HD based receiver.

What would be required in addition to the USB drivers? The ATSC tuner does all the work and pushes the video stream to the USB port.

[frederic1943]

One advantage of not having the ATSC tuners in the HR21 is they don't have to pay the patent fee for each ATSC tuner.

From China Tech News - "The United States Federal Communications Commission said that from March 1, 2007, all digital TV sets which are bigger than 13-inches and exported to the United States must conform with the ATSC standard and Chinese color TV manufacturers need to pay a US$23 patent fee for each ATSC tuner in their TV sets exported to the U.S market."

[SWTESTER]

There's no reason for the HR2x to have an OTA tuner.

1. There's no diplexer that supports the 103b, and the 6x8 multiswitch doesn't support OTA/RF, so why should the new 21 series support it?

2. Cost of production. Don't spend money on manufacturing parts that can't be utilized properly with your existing equipment.

3. Many customers are ditching their OTA, since DTV supports HD locals.

3. Just run a separate line to your living room television, from your OTA or cable hookup.

As for number 3, I would like to record my local CW station, which has the Chicago baseball in HD on it. Running a line will not enable it to record like my current DISH network setup does. There are major markets with baseball in HD on the CW station, like Chicago and Seattle. This does not support the baseball fan base. Alternatives are both DISH and Comcast here. There is also a little known network like PBS, which also is not carried on satellite.

[SWTESTER]

...I remember when there was a huge outcry on this site bitching and complaining every day as to when "D" was going to engage the OTA feature on the original HR20-700. It was worse than the "HD Extra Package" outcry. Now out of 300 installs nobody wants it?

Exactly, which is why I have DISH today with OTA capability as opposed to no OTA with Directv some 13 months ago. Now D* yanks back OTA again... Plus no contract is required with DISH for $50 extra. OTA is great when you have 2 OTA markets!! Myself, I am thinking of getting a used HR20 for baseball and additional HD capability. I am not interested in a receiver that does not have OTA. I can get locals from Comcast too..., though through a vastly inferior Moto box or spending $$ on a cable Tivo box.

[inazsully]

Exactly, which is why I have DISH today with OTA capability as opposed to no OTA with Directv some 13 months ago. Now D* yanks back OTA again... Plus no contract is required with DISH for $50 extra. OTA is great when you have 2 OTA markets!! Myself, I am thinking of getting a used HR20 for baseball and additional HD capability. I am not interested in a receiver that does not have OTA. I can get locals from Comcast too..., though through a vastly inferior Moto box or spending $$ on a cable Tivo box.

SWTESTER's response is exactly why I asked this question to begin with. If you don't need OTA now and doubt that you ever will I don't understand why anybody would CHOOSE the HR21 over the HR20. It's odd that you would turn down a free option the could possibly maybe someday be of use to you. You never know when you're going to move. Why would you not want PBS, CW, and other locals when you can get them in HD, for free. Free's a good thing.

[Doug Brott]

It's black and it can't do OTA. So, why go to the expense of building it at all. Just make the 100/700 black and if you don't need the OTA, big deal, someday maybe you will. I can't imagine anybody here in Phoenix wanting the HR21, or even accepting it.

SWTESTER's response is exactly why I asked this question to begin with. If you don't need OTA now and doubt that you ever will I don't understand why anybody would CHOOSE the HR21 over the HR20. It's odd that you would turn down a free option the could possibly maybe someday be of use to you. You never know when you're going to move. Why would you not want PBS, CW, and other locals when you can get them in HD, for free. Free's a good thing.

Don't forget that HR21 owners will soon have the opportunity to get the OTA add-on. Free is good for you the consumer, but supply is dwindling. There is no reason to turn down an HR20 if it shows up, but the HR21 is the receiver that will be sent in most cases these days.

As for your original question, you asked "Whats the point of the HR21?" The point is to save DIRECTV money and it is DIRECTV that made the choice to go this route.