Blu Ray Question

[tim1970]

I am considering getting a PS3, mainly for the BR capabilities. My question is since my HDTV only does 1080i, will the movies still look good. How much difference is there between 1080i and 1080p? My HDTV is a 55" rear projection, if that makes a difference.


Thanks

Tim

[Mike728]

It will look great. Just do it!!!

[ebaltz]

You will love it. Its my favorite piece of equipment I have ever owned. Get a couple games for fun, and load it up with photos and music too.

[Snoofie]

I don't own a Blu Ray player, but the difference in 1080i vs. 1080p on that size set will be minimal. My 50" Samsung is only 1080i and HD looks great. As you may already know, you can only get 1080p from Blu Ray or HD-DvD right now anyways since no broadcaster is doing 1080p as far as I know.

[Jason Nipp]

...my HDTV only does 1080i, will the movies still look good. How much difference is there between 1080i and 1080p? My HDTV is a 55" rear projection, if that makes a difference.

Absolutely, you will see a difference!

I started off on a 1080i Hitachi Rear projection, ended up moving it upstairs to a Philips 720 LCD, then after the kids wore out the LCD I replaced it with a Samsung 1080p LCD.

Now, with my 120Hz 1080p LCD... yes the difference is fantastic. Much nicer than the Hitachi or the Philips... I highly recommend a 1080p fast motion display for the full experience... but having said that, yes I believe you will enjoy it more than a regular DVD player on your 1080i display. YMMV

[Jason Nipp]

...the difference in 1080i vs. 1080p on that size set will be minimal. Mileage varies greatly, but having experienced a Blu Ray player on both, I disagree. I suppose quality of display could be a contributor, but I still disagree IMHO.
you can only get 1080p from Blu Ray or HD-DvD right now anyways since no broadcaster is doing 1080p as far as I know. That is correct.

[elaclair]

Having seen a side-by-side comparison of a Mitsu DLP running 1080i on one and 1080p on the other...yup, you'll see a difference. Slow moving or static images not so much, but anything with fast action will show a marked difference between the two.

But as many have said, a LOT depends on the source player, the calibration of the display, the overall ability of the display itself to handle the data rates required, the manufacturing quality of the display and just the quality of the source material.


Bottom line is, if it looks good to you....go for it.

[tim1970]

Well it sounds like I will definitely notice an improvement over what I have. (standard DVD with 480p). And I will then notice another improvement when I upgrade my television.

Thanks for the input


Tim

[Michael D'Angelo]

I had a 65" Mits RPTV before I go my new Sony XBR LCD. When I had the Mits I had my PS3 hooked up and it was 1080i and the picture was great. It was a major upgrade in PQ over my Pioneer Elite DVD player.

[AlbertZeroK]

IF you enable upscaling and everything on the PS3, you will notice a marked difference playing regular DVD's in the PS3 as well!

[Mike728]

IF you enable upscaling and everything on the PS3, you will notice a marked difference playing regular DVD's in the PS3 as well!

As long as his 1080i set has a digital input (DVI/HDMI).

[Jason Nipp]

IF you enable upscaling and everything on the PS3, you will notice a marked difference playing regular DVD's in the PS3 as well!
Yes the PS3 upscales DVD's, but my vision must be failing me cause I am disappointed with the hype of up-converted DVD's.... Again it could just be me and my high expectations.

[Jason Nipp]

As long as his 1080i set has a digital input (DVI/HDMI).
Correct, 1080p and 1080p up-conversion are digital only on the PS3.

[AlbertZeroK]

Yes the PS3 upscales DVD's, but my vision must be failing me cause I am disappointed with the hype of up-converted DVD's.... Again it could just be me and my high expectations.

Well, I'll agree it ain't a blu-ray disk, but it looks better than playing it in a convential DVD player, IMHO.

[hdtvfan0001]

Your 1080i image should look great.

That said, be aware that Blu Ray is about to release its next generation specifications - better known as v1.1, which will not be backwards compatible on most current Blu Ray players of any brand.

What this means is that some features found in new BD disks going forward may not work on some BD players in the marketplace today. I'm not usre how the PS3 is affected, but know that the new standard requires both hardware and firmware changes in the new players coming to market in late March and beyond

[tim1970]

As long as his 1080i set has a digital input (DVI/HDMI).

Since I don't have an HDMI input will I lose any quality going with an HDMI-DVI cable and using the DVI port on my HDTV?

[Mike728]

Since I don't have an HDMI input will I lose any quality going with an HDMI-DVI cable and using the DVI port on my HDTV?


None at all.

[ebaltz]

Your 1080i image should look great.

That said, be aware that Blu Ray is about to release its next generation specifications - better known as v1.1, which will not be backwards compatible on most current Blu Ray players of any brand.

What this means is that some features found in new BD disks going forward may not work on some BD players in the marketplace today. I'm not usre how the PS3 is affected, but know that the new standard requires both hardware and firmware changes in the new players coming to market in late March and beyond

PS3 is not effected it is already 1.1 and will be 2.0 and whatever else comes along.

[Jason Nipp]

...better known as v1.1, which will not be backwards compatible on most current Blu Ray players of any brand.

And for the standalone players, I have seen several firmware updates already, I find it hard to believe that a patch will never be available. I have had several already for my BDP-S1. And even more for my PS3.

Although I do try to stay neutral, please do us all a favor and do not make comments like something will not be backwards compatibility or will not work until it has really happened and/or there is indisputable data to back up the comment. I am an engineer, so I am very much data driven..... I do apologize if I come off abrasive, but it is a big pet peeve of mine to have a factual statement made before it has sufficient data to support the claim/argument.

Having said that, perhaps your right, but there is still a chance your not. That being said you made the statement as if backward compatibility would never be corrected, and that has yet to be proven. The BD Player vendors know better than to kill half it's user base at this stage of the game... And in my opinion that's exactly what would happen if suddenly all the players that they struggled to get onto the market suddenly couldn't play movies....

[GrumpyBear]

Profile 1.0 vs. Profile 1.1

There are several different hardware requirements (see the chart below), but it basically boils down to picture-in-picture functionality. All Blu-ray players up until this point have been Profile 1.0 and have lacked the secondary video and audio decoders necessary to play a smaller video in the corner while also playing the main high-def movie in the background. With the notable exception of the Sony PlayStation 3, Profile 1.0 players cannot be upgraded via firmware to become Profile 1.1 players.

Because Profile 1.0 players lacked this functionality, movie studios have understandably not included picture-in-picture functionality on any current Blu-ray disc. Fox has announced that it will release its first Profile 1.1-enabled disc, Sunshine, in the first quarter of 2008. And as more Profile 1.1 players become available, we expect more Profile 1.1 discs to be released.
Here is a link as well
http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9808376-1.html

As you can see, Profile 1.0 or better known as GRACE PERIOD Profile machines will not be able to be upgraded to 1.1 or 2.0 Profiles. I do believe though, that NEWER Blu-Ray movies will still play on Grace Period 1.0 for sometime to come. Down the road, who knows. EOL is right around the Corner for 1.0 and then they only have to support 1.0 for 12months afterwards. With all the issues they have had and have used firmware to resolve issue, down the Road, having stating from the get go, that Profile 1.0 was and is Grace Period format, early adoptors "could" be in for a nasty surprise, all the talk about Java wont help, this is a phyical issue that firmware can't fix.
Lots of the features being included in 1.1 and 2.0 are already included in HD-DVD, but I am not sure how useful some of these features are to the avg user are on any format. Will also be interesting to see how the 1gb issue will be handled on PS3, format the internal addon with a 1gb partion, or add a 1gb addon. Once again only a gamebox is upgradable, single provider, hmm, lots of complaint from the BD people about a single provider Toshiba for HD-DVD, and here we go with a gamebox from a single provider being the only NON-dead in. Just like HD-DVD, Profile 1.0 Graceperiod will always play the current movies and newer movies for sometime, all moves released until 1.0 is EOL, after that...... Who knows.

[Jason Nipp]

And that was a much better explanation, thank you.

Now to ask, this means the early adopters will not be able to use PiP, but it does not say the movie will not play, is this correct?

[GrumpyBear]

And that was a much better explanation, thank you.

Now to ask, this means the early adopters will not be able to use PiP, but it does not say the movie will not play, is this correct?

Correct, its the "enhanced features" that wont work on Profile1.0, and ongoing enhanced features will also not work on Profile1.0, not sure how much of a lose that really is.
Personally when I watch a Movie I watch it to watch the movie, not to hear a bunch of talk about the movie making. Granted they may add some cool features in the download content I may like, and the Avg Joe as well. Cool features yes, I just don't see myself using them though. Now granted HD-DVD players, had all these features built in from the beginning. My problem from the get go with BD(other than Sony) was the term Grace Period Profile, your always are leary about 1.x anything, but calling a new system Grace Period, and nowing full well the the spec for 2.0 was already in the works. What a complete sham of the BD makers putting out devices that wouldn't support new features, yet telling everybody that the great BD-Java would keep thier devices from being outdated. Granted once Sony gets on the ball and adds feedback to there gamebox, some more good titles, that I can't get on Xbox360(looks like early summer). I may use that as a Blu-Player, but it needs to come up to speed as a gamebox 1st. Granted lots of people don't want a gamebox, or add a device that uses a Bluetooth remote so you can't use it with your really cool Master remote. So they will have a device that can't be upgraded, or will have to buy a new system down the road, Just like the HD-DVD people.

[Jason Nipp]

...or add a device that uses a Bluetooth remote so you can't use it with your really cool Master remote. So they will have a device that can't be upgraded, or will have to buy a new system down the road, Just like the HD-DVD people.
Actually, I know several people that have the PS3 running off a Pronto. It takes some searching the Internet, but there are full instructions on how to accomplish this. I think AVS had a thread on this. Basically you have to go to eBay and find a certain rev PS2 USB IR remote set, the module and remote.

I agree, when I thought I was stuck with Bluetooth remote only I was peeved... Even more peeved when I realized I could not just shut down the darn guitar from GH3.... It an USB RF module, it is not Bluetooth. So if I want to switch to a sixxaxis and play something else I have toB disconnect the USB module first, or at least have it look for another address so I can get the sixxaxis to find remote address 1.

All this said, I am still very happy with the product.

Again I try to remain neutral, but my opinion toward Toshiba changed when everyone was trying to sell HD-DVD players as full HD when they were only 1080i. The 1080p units weren't available until several months after it was already on the market. These same people try to argue there is no difference between 1080i and 1080p, but these are the same people yet again that argued progrgressive scan was better than interlaced even at 720p... People seem to forget the arguements of the past after they invest in a technology.

And I bring this up not to jump into the argument here, but to balance it a bit. I see alot of bad mouthing BD, but not as much people want to confront that there were hardware hypes and issues on the other side. I have never ever seen a new product introduction that did not have its bugs. Annoyances are part of being an early adopter, and most of the fights I see here and elsewhere, are more defending ones choice then anything else. I do not see as much argument from the people who have both. We all have our reasons for making a choice.

I will echo again that I think the fight is more about studios picking sides that the competence of the formats. I'd really like to see what happens if you could get what ever movie you wanted in either format.... I think that would be a fair fight.

[Cholly]

There is a dongle available that handles the remote situation. I've seen it on newegg amongst other places.

As to Toshiba and 1080p -- Toshiba went to market with their early models (HD-A1 and HD-XA1) before the 1080p bandwagon got rolling. They followed quickly with the HD-xA2, which is 1080p compliant. Also, all HD DVD players have supported features from the beginning which will be available on Blu-ray Disc players commencing with profile 2.0 support. There are no such players currently available, although several are forthcoming within the next few months.

There are fanboys for both camps. I, for one, bought HD DVD because it was less expensive and had more mature technology. The Blu-ray prices still linger at $150 or more above HD DVD, and at $250 or more for profile 1.1 compliant players.

[Jason Nipp]

There is a dongle available that handles the remote situation. I've seen it on newegg amongst other places.

As to Toshiba and 1080p -- Toshiba went to market with their early models (HD-A1 and HD-XA1) before the 1080p bandwagon got rolling. They followed quickly with the HD-xA2, which is 1080p compliant. Also, all HD DVD players have supported features from the beginning which will be available on Blu-ray Disc players commencing with profile 2.0 support. There are no such players currently available, although several are forthcoming within the next few months.

There are fanboys for both camps. I, for one, bought HD DVD because it was less expensive and had more mature technology. The Blu-ray prices still linger at $150 or more above HD DVD, and at $250 or more for profile 1.1 compliant players.

No entirely true Charlie, the majority the the HD-DVD players are still the current 1080i offerings because of the price point. If you step up to Toshiba's 1080p offering, at lease the retailers out in my neck of the woods have both camps 1080p offerings selling for the same price point.

I did not know about the dongle solution, gotta check that out.

After tax return, I am looking to buy a u5000. I am not in just one camp, though I do lean in one direction. I am one of the believers that this war is not over yet.

[Jason Nipp]

I think this thread is very close to being a spin off of the HD verses blue thread. Chris was stern about not having splinter threads. So I am going to copy these posts into the main thread and close this one. Again the dialog is being copied to the other thread so no one start rattling the he closed the thread to end on his point stuff.

Discussion moved here: (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=86101)