Charlie got his wish, lost subs & downgrades

[Marcus S]

I just locked in Dish 100 for the old price. It only took me 40 mins on hold, E*'s account management web site is down and the ATS super that answered the phone sounded frazzled. I am only 1 of 10's of thousands (or more) tonight that either;
1) Where finally convinced to lock in the old rate
2) Downgraded from 150 to 100 or 100 to 50
3) Dropped (a) movie package(s)
4) Dropped their locals
5) Dropped E*

Charlie is really turning into a moron. Give the 50 + locals a pricebreak, give the Everything group a break, but screw the 100 + 150 people because marketing told him they would never change or leave. WRONG!

Again the avg sub subsidizing everyone else.

---

Sum up so far:

This is not a nickle or dime or $1 or $2 price increase. Just add last years price increase on locals, supers, and HBO. Is there any difference between when cable raises your bill $5+ a mo in one pop or Dish rolling out a $5+ increase over one year?

It's even worse if you sub to two additional distant net cities and/or dish latino. Dish net distant subs lost programming for the experience. Add those additional nickles and dimes that many dismiss and you get a $7 to $8 price increase, in just 1 year!

Charlie = :money: Subs = :blackeye:

A very good link from BobaBird: http://ekb.dbstalk.com/17 Make sure to tally all packages effected / you sub to in the last year.
Tally the $ damage for yourself.

[Jacob S]

Well things go up, his rates must have went up and then he must have passed the rate increases along to the subscribers, but the ones that get the most channels should be considered the best subs and the ones that he definitely would not want to lose and should give a better deal to. I guess he is trying to give a better deal to those that get smaller packages because those are the poorer people that cannot afford as much but if someone takes all the channels he assumes that they can afford it and they will not make as big of a deal of it.

[Dgenx321]

Yea, I'm sure it's just evil Charlie who's doing this, right??

[Nick]

"I just locked in Dish 100 for the old price. It only took me 40 mins on hold, E*'s account management web site is down and the ATS super that answered the phone sounded frazzled. I am only 1 of 10's of thousands (or more) tonight that either;
1) Where finally convinced to lock in the old rate
2) Downgraded from 150 to 100 or 100 to 50
3) Dropped (a) movie package(s)
4) Dropped their locals
5) Dropped E*"

I think you made these "facts" up out
of your frustration over a relatively
small rate increase. Please state your
reliable source(s) for the above info,
and break down the numbers for your
downgrade categories.

Out of all the utilities and services I use, E*'s rate hikes are either in line, or below the average. And no other provider sends me a letter informing me of the pending increase and includes a coupon for a freebie.

Personally speaking, I fail to understand why some subscribers get so worked up over this. If one has an 'upper' programming package, more than one TV, a decent audio system, and perhaps a large-screen TV in the family room, then one's entertainment would definitely be considered in the 'luxury' class.

If this is your situation, IMO, you have a lot of nerve griping about a couple of bucks. Prices go up. And don't tell us 'it's the principal of the thing.'

:rolleyes:

[Cyclone]

I haven't see this much hysteria about $2 since that movie "Better off Dead".

[Cheyenne]

There's always a penny pincher in the crowd

Two Dollars....... I want my Two Dollars..... :)

[bearklaw]

Originally posted by Nick


Out of all the utilities and services I use, E*'s rate hikes are either in line, or below the average. And no other provider sends me a letter informing me of the pending increase and includes a coupon for a freebie.


I'm with Nick. As a California resident, I only wish my electical rates went up as slow as my Dish bill.

-BearKlaw

[cnsf]

Hasn't it been 10 years or something ridiculous since the last price increase? Given current conditions, it appears perfectly reasonable and the hike is negligible for what you get.

No need to gripe about the fee increase. The customer service and other issues, though, are valid gripes.

[Randy_B]

And considering this is only the what . . . second price increase in about 4 maybe 5 yrs . . . I have no probelm with it. It is not just the cost of programming that has gone up for E* as well, how much do you think 9 satellites and the insurance costs. In light of all of E*'s investments that make this a better service (E* PVR development is ALL done in house, no Sony, RCA etc... developing receivers for them) $2 is very reasonable.

As for 10k others on the line, I called in last night to take my DPs off the account (replaced them with a 721), CSR answered the phone on the 4th ring and I was done in less than 3 minutes. No evidence of 10k unhappy subscribers hanging on line there.

[cnsf]

Originally posted by Randy_B
In light of all of E*'s investments that make this a better service (E* PVR development is ALL done in house, no Sony, RCA etc... developing receivers for them) $2 is very reasonable.


Uh, oh.....the worms have just escaped......

You sure you want to justify the increase with the in-house development issues?????

[scaredpoet]

Originally posted by Randy_B
And considering this is only the what . . . second price increase in about 4 maybe 5 yrs . . . I have no probelm with it.

You folks don't know the meaning of price increase. :)

Take, for instance, my position.

Before getting E*, I was on Cablevision. Got my service with a cablemodem, and a channel package slightly less plentiful, but comparable to what is currently AT50. Paying $29.99/month for cable modem service and another $35 for the tv part of the bill, I stood at about $65 or so month, on a 2 year contract (this was in early 2001). Yeah I know, I could've gotten Dish back then and saved a little cash, but I was renting and the landlord wanted no part of a Dish on his house.

Anyway, price increases happened, but I really didn't pay attention to them because I was on a contract and locked into my rates until May, 2003.... or so I thought. August 2002 rolls around. I had since moved, and with it came several problems with my move in which some Cablevision employee moved into my old place and pretty much hijacked my old account to take advantage of his free cable perk, leaving no record of me ever having an account. After being accused of cable piracy (in which I had to show them past bills and cancelled checks to clear my name), they reluctantly agreed that yeah, I must've "somehow" had legal service with them at my old address. So they hook me up at the new place.

Imagine my shock when my cable bill goes up to $85 a month. Yup, that's a $20 increase: $10 from the broadband data side of the bill, and $10 from the TV side. For the exact same level of service. It appears that Cablevision had been hiking up their rates quite a bit, and since they had no record of my being a customer prior to August much less my contract through May '03, they had me paying their current rates. Yikes. Even showing them the service contract didn't get them to put me back at my old rates. ("We have no record of that, sorry.")

So I sucked it up, as hard it is to say "Oh, it's just a $20 increase..." and sincerely sound like it was no big deal. :)

Then October. Cablevision had fought for another rate increase in my town, and it finally got approved. Another $5. The monthly bill now stood at $90.

But then came December, in which I found that Cablevision would increase rates AGAIN starting in February. This time, my cable modem rate was going up to $45 a month, and another $2 to $3 would be tacked on to the video side of the bill, and the "rental fees" for the box and remote (yeah, you don't even own your remote with Cablevision) would go up to about another $1 combined.

What's more, my channel package was no longer offered, and if I intended to make any account changes going forward, I'd be forced to "upgrade" to a digital package, with service equivalent to what I had on my analog package, only it would cost me (including cablemodem) about $114 a month... $69 for the tv side of the bill, $45 for the data side.

So in case you haven't kept track, I've undergone three Cablevision rate increases in less than a year, in which my bill came pretty close to doubling. That's when I had enough and got myself a Dish. I kept my broadband service simply because it's fast and I don't have many other options (Starband and DirecWay introduce lag that's way too excessive for the work I do from home and DSL is slower than cable modem for the same price). But even with that, and even with Dish network rate increases, I upped my level of service (AT100 + locals) and am still saving around $10 to $15 a month than if I stayed with cable.

What's more, I locked in the old AT100 rates by paying a year in advance. I couldn't dream of doing that with cable. =)

So I guess the bottom line is, yeah, a $2 rate increase sucks. But I'll take that over an accumulated $35 rate increase any day. :)

[jeffwtux]

Again more lies about price increases. This isn't he 2nd increase in 5 ot 10 years. IT'S THE 4TH PRICE INCREASE IN 4 YEARS. THEY HAVE BEEN JUST AS BAD AS CABLE LATELY. Up until this year their rate hikes have been less than cable, but not this year.

[jeffwtux]

4TH PRICE INCREASE IN 4 YEARS

[cnsf]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
4TH PRICE INCREASE IN 4 YEARS

I only seem to remember a $1 hike in HBO and some other $1-$2 hike earlier. Compared to the local cable companies, this is a gift more than a hike.

I must hand it to E* for keeping fees stable over the years.

[jeffwtux]

AT100 has been raised $5 in 4 years. That's not stable. cnsf and others: GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND!! AT 100 has gone from $28.99 in 1999 to $33.99 today. HBO has only gone up $1 because it already was overpriced

[jeffwtux]

CNSF: you simply either don't know what you are talking about or trying to "play dumb" in spreading lies. The latter gets me more pissed off than anything else in life, because ignorant people will buy it.

[tampa8]

Rant;

I'm with Nick on this one. I've tried to be somewhat diplomatic about this $2 increase issue, but since it has been brought up yet again I have to respond. I am begging anyone who sells Dish that is this upset to PLEASE stop selling it, get another job and stop griping. BIG DEAL. PLEEEEEASE! And to top it off, for many the price is actually going DOWN! And yes for some of their "Better" customers. If you get AT150 and HBO and Cinemax your rate went DOWN a buck (Two I think if you have AT100) If you are not a dealer and still so unhappy about the price increase and have to keep bringing it up, then I beg you to please switch to Direct TV (who just raised their prices also) or to Cable who has increased many many times and a much higher rate.
Ok, I feel better now.

[jeffwtux]

tampa8:
I only gripe when people lie about the frequency of price increase. To say that this is only the 2nd price increase in 5 or 10 years is simply not true, and I'm just pointing that out. If that makes me the griper, fine. At least I'm posting correct and true facts, not lies.

[shilton]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
Again more lies about price increases. This isn't he 2nd increase in 5 ot 10 years. IT'S THE 4TH PRICE INCREASE IN 4 YEARS. THEY HAVE BEEN JUST AS BAD AS CABLE LATELY. Up until this year their rate hikes have been less than cable, but not this year.
I beg to differ...I have been a sub for 4 years and for the 1st 2 years, my price remained unchanged. I will admit that it has gone up every year since then...but then again Dish has added new channels and costs have gone up. I don't watch all those damn sporting events on Dish...but millions of Subs DEMAND them and they aren't cheap. Look at the average increase that ESPN passes along to the cable and satellite services who carry it and you will see that quickly. Roll that in with TNT's big bucks for NBA and that means costs go up and someone has to pay. Seems funny to me...no one wants the rate increases, but laet Charlie say one word about dropping TNT or ESPN or anything else for that matter and the world goes nuts. You cannot have it both ways people...you want the channels but don't want to pay for them. Last time I checked really nothing in this world is free anymore! I hate paying for those sports channels I don't watch, but that's life. If Echostar didn't have them all, they'd probably be out of business, as there are millions of dedicted sports fans out there who would gladly go elsewhere, so I just deal with it!

[davidmg1]

I've been a E* user since 1996 and have very little to complain about. Sure I'm not crazy about paying more money for anything, but I believe the quality of service from E* over the years (although not perfect) is much better than any cable service I've ever had.

I have never had an outage with E*, but had countless ones with cable. Customer service is better and quicker, I could go on and on.

My local cable company has raised rates by 10% every year. They just do it with a little note on the bill telling you that they did it. They also said in a news article to plan on an increase of at least 10% every year.

So rates are going up every where....I say if you don't want to pay for the increase, then cancel your service and buy a roof top antenna. Airwaves are still FREE!!

[DoyleS]

The price increase is all relative. Here in the free spending Democrat run state of California, we have a nice $35B deficit. Automobile license fees are getting ready to triple, they are considering and internet sales tax, a 1 % increase in regular sales tax that will bring the Bay Area to 9.25% along with a 1-2% increase in personal income tax. A $2/mo increase in something worth paying for is hardly going to be a problem when I have to give several thousand a year for something I don't even want.

..Doyle

[Randy_B]

Originally posted by cnsf


Uh, oh.....the worms have just escaped......

You sure you want to justify the increase with the in-house development issues?????

The point is that it is an expense for E* to do it, the SW quality issue aside. DirecTV does not build all the equipment. Sony, RCA et al pay the costs for R&D, and manuf. They probably even have to PAY DirecTV a licensing fee. Not the case with E*. Good or bad, it is the case.

[cnsf]

Originally posted by Randy_B


The point is that it is an expense for E* to do it, the SW quality issue aside. DirecTV does not build all the equipment. Sony, RCA et al pay the costs for R&D, and manuf. They probably even have to PAY DirecTV a licensing fee. Not the case with E*. Good or bad, it is the case.

Agreed with the fact. I find it hard, though, palating the fact that increased fees may be partially due to inadequate development lifecycles, programming, testing and rollout.

Maybe they should take a gander at the SEI methodologies.

jeffwtux..... $5 over 4 years and you're complaining? Get an OTA antenna....or a new job that pays you $0.11 more a month. Get over it.

Better yet, move to NYC and get Cablevision. Then you can deal with 5-10% increases every year for declining service.

[RichW]

Dish may have its flaws, but the cost of service isn't one of them.

Each month I hear grumblings that Dish is going to lose subs, market share, etc. but when the numbers come out, Dish seems to have done the opposite.

[Randy_B]

cnsf, my point is that with these margins all over the company, Dish cannot cross subsidize any division in the company.

[gcutler]

Charlie got me sooo mad, that I upgraded from AT-150 & Starz/Hbo/Show to the Everything pack. It did cost me $1 extra per month (I guess that is really $3 extra a month before price change, but you know what I mean) but the 2 extra Skinemax channels, especially the 5-Max made me figure what the he*l. That will show you charlie!!! :p

[Ken Seeber]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
AT100 has been raised $5 in 4 years. That's not stable. cnsf and others: GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND!! AT 100 has gone from $28.99 in 1999 to $33.99 today. HBO has only gone up $1 because it already was overpriced

The people who have their heads in the sand are the longtime satellite subcribers who don't seem to appreciate how good they've had it over those of us who were dumb enough to stick with cable for so long.

Wow, $5 worth of increases in four years, huh?  In the same span of time, where I live in Illinois the cable company has been bought out twice, going from TCI to AT&T Broadband to Mediacom.  In the four years you've had to suffer with $5 worth of rate increases, our rates have gone from $26 per month to $52 per month as of last September.  That's because we're now required to have the digital package, whether we want it or not.  This also includes three rate increase in the last calendar year alone, a minimum of $5 each time.

[AngelFlier]

Get the facts straight before you post them, moron. $1 per pkg (incl. locals) increase in 2001 - the first one in 4-5 years! $1 per pkg in 2002, and now $2 per pkg in 2003, and some pkgs only went up $1 again. If you can't afford that for adding new channels and having great picture/sound, drop it. I have no sympathy for your plight.

[cnsf]

Originally posted by Ken Seeber


The people who have their heads in the sand are the longtime satellite subcribers who don't seem to appreciate how good they've had it over those of us who were dumb enough to stik with cable for so long.

Wow, $5 worth of increases since in four years, huh?  In the same span of time, where I live in Illinois, the cable company has been bought out twice, going from TCI to AT&T Broadband to Mediacom.  In the four years you've had to suffer with $5 worth of rate increases, our rates have gone from $26 per month to $52 per month as of last September.  That's because we're now required to have the digital package, whether we want it or not.  This also includes three rate increase in the last calendar year alone, a minimum of $5 each time.

Guess it's not just a NY problem....

:D

[Nick]

AngelFlier, which one of us morons are you calling a moron??? :D

BTW, welcome to DBSTalk.

[Randy_B]

The local paper here documented that it was more expensive to subscribe to Charter Cable in the Belleville, IL area than it was for the same package in NYC. Must be that inflation factor... Oh wait a minute that woudl work the other way :D

[Marcus S]

Originally posted by Nick
"I just locked in Dish 100 for the old price. It only took me 40 mins on hold, E*'s account management web site is down and the ATS super that answered the phone sounded frazzled. I am only 1 of 10's of thousands (or more) tonight that either;
1) Where finally convinced to lock in the old rate
2) Downgraded from 150 to 100 or 100 to 50
3) Dropped (a) movie package(s)
4) Dropped their locals
5) Dropped E*"

I think you made these "facts" up out
of your frustration over a relatively
small rate increase. Please state your
reliable source(s) for the above info,
and break down the numbers for your
downgrade categories.

Out of all the utilities and services I use, E*'s rate hikes are either in line, or below the average. And no other provider sends me a letter informing me of the pending increase and includes a coupon for a freebie.

Personally speaking, I fail to understand why some subscribers get so worked up over this. If one has an 'upper' programming package, more than one TV, a decent audio system, and perhaps a large-screen TV in the family room, then one's entertainment would definitely be considered in the 'luxury' class.

If this is your situation, IMO, you have a lot of nerve griping about a couple of bucks. Prices go up. And don't tell us 'it's the principal of the thing.'

:rolleyes:



Sorry no voice clip of music on hold and dish promo's every 1 min, and yes account management was down for most of the night last night. What amuzes me about some of these comments regarding rate increases are the people that seem to care the least are usually the one's that flap their wings the most after they realize over time that suddenly they are now paying $35+ w/taxes for what they once paid $30.00 w/no taxes and others would justify it by saying, well they did add tons more community access and shop at home channels. :rolleyes:

Now for the real reason. Is it a price increase for increased programming costs or Charlie's $600m blunder at the customers expense. :hi:

[Jacob S]

Do you expect Dish to keep the same rates forever while everything else goes up? Its called inflation.

Top 40 used to be $19.99 a month for a while then it went to top 50 then went up to $21.99 then up to $22.99 and now up to $24.99. Top 60 was $25.99 or $26.99 then went up to $28.99 then up to $29.99 then $30.99 then $31.99 and now $33.99 and went to top 100 when it got around the $30 mark. Superstations used to be included in top 60 but then got dropped out of the package and ended up being $4.99 and recently went to $5.99 so in all actuality it is $39.99 for the same channels including the superstations. Top 150 was originially $39.99 then went to $40.99 and now $42.99

Since this time there has been channel additions and improvements, the channel additions alone are worth the rate increase. At least they do send you a note of the increase and a free ppv and let customers know of things going on like this.

[guest]

I just looked into my local cable to compare with Dish...They currently offer several Packages:
1) Standard 66 channels $48 / month
2) Digital 151 Channels (2 tv's) $72/Month
3) Digital 151 + 20 Premium Channels (2 Tv's) $112/Month

Comparing this to my Dish Everything Pack of...
169+ Channels + 40 Premium channes + Locals +2nd Tuner =$85

That is more regular channels + 20 more premium channels for $27 per month less.

[Marcus S]

Originally posted by Jacob S
Do you expect Dish to keep the same rates forever while everything else goes up? Its called inflation.

Top 40 used to be $19.99 a month for a while then it went to top 50 then went up to $21.99 then up to $22.99 and now up to $24.99. Top 60 was $25.99 or $26.99 then went up to $28.99 then up to $29.99 then $30.99 then $31.99 and now $33.99 and went to top 100 when it got around the $30 mark. Superstations used to be included in top 60 but then got dropped out of the package and ended up being $4.99 and recently went to $5.99 so in all actuality it is $39.99 for the same channels including the superstations. Top 150 was originially $39.99 then went to $40.99 and now $42.99

Since this time there has been channel additions and improvements, the channel additions alone are worth the rate increase. At least they do send you a note of the increase and a free ppv and let customers know of things going on like this.
That is exactly right. Also, don't forget locals went up $1 as well, and dish pulled all but the top 4 nets from distant net subs at the same time, and that was a value add? PBS National was $1 went up to $1.50. PPV was $2.99 now $3.99. Anyone want to do some math to figure out, that with all these "little" price increases, your bill has gone up a great deal more than $1 or $2 or is this a sudden revelation to anyone that would trivialize the issue?

Quality of programming on the new channels? At least I don't see it with the exception of the movie channels added.

[Unthinkable]

AT&T Cable had 3 or 4 price increases here in MA last year alone and they were far more extreme then anything I've ever seen Dish propose. Cable sucks.

[jeffwtux]

The real reason for the price increase is because nobody has the guts to make ESPN/Disney pay for their mistake of paying way too much for the NBA. Why should captive cable/dbs subscribers pay for the deficiency of ad revenue that the NBA now receives. That's what was hapenning. The ad market is a 100% fluid and competiive market and it decreased the value of NBA which caused NBC to lose money on their last contract. If the free market set this price the contract would've gone down. Disney circumvented the free market by forcing the contract on cable/DBS subscribers. That really outrages me. With cable and DBS essentially the sky is the limit, and that scares me. What if Fox got into the bidding and would put their games on FX or something? They could've pushed the bid up 2x and ESPN still could've gotten every penny from cable and DBS subscribers.
I knew that this NBA deal was bad news the minute it was signed, and have been bitching about it ever since.

[Marcus S]

That is a good point about programming that looses revenue is made up by bleading the coupher from other programming tiers where subs that do not sub to these specialty packages, are forced to subsidize them. If you remember, years ago Charlie said that as they added more subscribers they would get better program pricing/discounts... Hint hint that costs might actually go down. So typically Charlie, so where did all those savings go after the 7m subscriber? :shrug:

[scooper]

They went into keeping your rates down as low as they were for as long as they were.

[Marcus S]

or programming costs havn't gone up that much, but a failed merger is a good way to play marter and justify the cleanup cost at the same time.

[normang]

Add to all this, ATT cable, raised Internet rates here from $42 to $59 in one fell swoop. The only way to save $$ is to sub to cable tv I don't want or need.. the savings are perhaps a stunning $7-8 if one subs to useless basic cable tv.. So $2 is nothing.. I get at least twice the programming at significantly lower cost then cable anyday..

I just wish that they would cap the reciever fee so I could add more than two recievers without increasing my cost.

[sorahl]

I have to admit that for the first time I have received poor customer service tonight. I called up, i didn't wait long at all (3 minutes) and got a CSA who couldn't add 2 + 2 and get 4 if her life depended on it. She consistently quoted me a price for paying for my 50.96 a month bill at 656 dollars annually. I repeatedly pointed out that this was MORE expensive than I am paying monthly EVEN with the price increase. THe broken record keep saying over and over. I finally asked to speak to someone else, preferably a supervisor or someone with basic math skills. Aaron came the phone, no idea if he really is a supervisor and he made no apologies. He did at least have the ability to figure out the numbers and agreed with my numbers. I only ended up paying for the top 100 for the year. A previous CSA told me i could get all the items at a discount but these told me that only the top 100 is discountable.
sigh...

john

[jeffwtux]

really, the merger was a break even. Charlie did get somewhere near $600 million from another party after the merger fell through.

[Marcus S]

I believe the public books show E* heavly in debt including allot of outstanding loans, the good news is that they are paying off the high interest one's and acquiring lower interest one's. Ironically they have alot of cash in their pocket from these loans. I wonder...

However Jeff, the price increase is unwarranted in this economy and as you noted is part of an incremental 7% increase over the last two years (if you count the avg subs package(s) 100/150 + locals + 1 movie package). I can't remember a recession with inflation. The forclosure list is starting to soar, which means less Dish in use and a new gen coming into play who don't watch TV. What is Charlie thinking...

[Eyedox]

Easy fellas! Watch the flames ... that's my job :D

[Joe Capitano]

When I took the plunge and bought my Dish - a $600 initial outlay for a 4000 and 1 year of AT50 (I think), I had become frustrated with the cable gods for not upgrading their plant (and I wanted Game Show Network and the Superstations). That was six years ago. I dropped HBO/Showtime single channels from the cable I had and took the Dish multiplexes of same.

Since then I added a second dish on Orcas Island so I could take my receiver with me and enjoy there what I paid boo-coo bucks for, and I've upgraded to Dish 500 and AT150, and added two distant local packs (thanks to the Orcas connection). As far as I'm concerned, it's $75 a month well spent.

A few days from now I will move into a new home some miles north of where I used to reside. AT&T/Comcast is out of the picture except for local basic, if that.

As to that money I had been spending on cable, Verizon has what looks to me a nice local/long distance/DSL package. Perhaps I might shift the "standard cable" money that way.

So my bill's going up $2 a month. It's now how much, it's what I'm getting in return, and it seems to me I'm getting a lot of value out of it. I'll get even more out of it when I get my paws on a two-tuner PVR, but that's another story.

(BTW: The cable gods in Everett, WA, where I once lived, are just NOW upgrading that city for broadband internet. And my boyhood home of Oak Harbor is still a year or so away and begging for it!)

[Marcus S]

Well Joe, the 921 will be shipping by year end, and the expected price is $799, but that appears to be no problem with most here... I am sure it is a cost justification over devalution over inflation over tax write off thing. :eek: Sorry not meaning to be insulting, but I expect the package price increase thing will be increasing annually, based on the incremental alacarte price increase pattern.

The good news! Your new bill will read like your cable bill (package pricing yah know.) I think people respect the issue more when they get a bill itemizing the increases across all packages they sub to.

"But they said it would only be a $1 or $2", well maybe for a 2 min phone call on 800 Call AT&T." :)

[Joe Capitano]

Originally posted by Marcus S
Well Joe, the 921 will be shipping by year end, (snip!)

Too expensive for me, drat it all. I was thinking more along the lines of the 721 or the 541(?) I read about elsewhere. Regardless, I'm getting one when I get some extra cash to get one. Meantime, my 4000 still works fine (though the remote has seen better days).


On second thought, now that I've looked at the feature comparison in the Dish PVR forum...

<Homer> "Mmmmmmmm....921!" </Homer>

[Ken Seeber]

Originally posted by Marcus S
the price increase is unwarranted in this economy (snip)

You seem to have a poor concept of economics.&nbsp; Price increases come when the cost of doing business increases, regardless of the state of "this economy."&nbsp; If the fees that the networks charge Echostar have gone up, the costs have to be passed along to Echostar's customers, regardless of&nbsp;"this economy."&nbsp; I think you'll see DirecTV raising prices soon as well.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

[BobaBird]

The history of Dish's rate increases is shown objectively at http://ekb.dbstalk.com/17.

[Nick]

I suppose there has to be a place where a few nickel and dimers can incessantly whine about occasional, but negligible rate hikes. If you feel compelled to complain over and over, you probably can't afford satellite TV. Perhaps you should look for a less expensive alternative.

[Marcus S]

Nick, this is not a nickle or dime or $1 or $2 price increase or have you not read this post in it's entirity to figure that out yet? Just add last years price increase on locals, supers, and HBO. Is there any difference between when cable raises your bill $5+ a mo in one pop or Dish rolling out a $5+ increase over one year?

It's even worse if you sub to two additional distant net cities and/or dish latino. Dish net distant subs lost programming for the experience. Add those additional nickles and dimes you dismiss and you get a $7 to $8 price increase, in just 1 year!

Charlie = :money: Subs = :blackeye:

[Richard King]

I am begging anyone who sells Dish that is this upset to PLEASE stop selling it, get another job and stop griping. Obviously, the person has no other skills or abilities other than the ability to sell and install a product that he despises for a company he despises, headed by a person he despises. It must be tough going through life this way.

jeffwtux..... or a new job that pays you $0.11 more a month. He can't.

[Marcus S]

Does he work for United? :) I have to say one thing in his favor, E* has not been fair with independent retailers. E* is to busy focusing on getting back into big chains / kiss and "make up". Ironically Dell tried this and was instantly burned.

The heart of America lies in the independent retailer, not some clueless shmuch at Sears or Radio Shack.

If E* wants to grow their sub base, some times the most simple solution is to go back to what worked.

Raising package costs for no reason does not help their cause.

Save the lie, cheat, and half truths to the Fortune 500.

TW now joining reality or bankruptcy.

[Richard King]

Raising package costs for no reason does not help their causeYou keep saying this but have nothing to back up your assertion that they did it for no reason. If nothing else, they did it to increase their profits, so, your comments are meaningless. I am sure there is always a reason for everything they do, as are most actions of all companies.

[Marcus S]

Rking, I have provided the "fact" that after 1 year, this is a $2 to $7+ price increase based on programming choices. You claim I have no "fact" to justify my assurtion. Where is your "fact" to justify programming cost increases, or do you simply believe everything that corp leaders tell you. :rolleyes: Why do you think E* has so many net re-trans dispuits.

Do you really think E* caved into Disney / ABC and pressure from subs when E* has a history of dropping disputed channels in the past and program providers know it.

[RichW]

"It's even worse if you sub to two additional distant net cities and/or dish latino."

But try getting those channel from cable!

[Marcus S]

Oh gee Rich, because cable subs can't get those programming choices, that justifies a $2 to $7 E* price increase how??? I have an apple in one hand and a zucchini in the other... What I do see is that cable TV / broadband subs are getting a break, will it last, are these offers starting to compete with a DBS industry who is starting to realize their growth is stalling?? How intelligent is DBS to raise rates.

[shilton]

Originally posted by Marcus S
E* has not been fair with independent retailers. E* is to busy focusing on getting back into big chains / kiss and "make up". Ironically Dell tried this and was instantly burned.

The heart of America lies in the independent retailer, not some clueless shmuch at Sears or Radio Shack.


So I guess you are one of these people who feels that no one should shop at Wal-Mart either because they are putting the Mom and Pop shops out of business across America. Do you realize that Wal-Mart sold more consumer electronics last year than most other stores put together? I think Dish turning to the big-box retailers and other stores is Brilliant. My local Wal-Mart tells me they are selling them about as fast as they get them in.

I just hope with your negative attitude, you are not a Dish Retailer, cause I'd hate to have you representing my product.

Why can't people accept the fact that prices do rise (nearly every year for most things)? Bet ya didn't know, I once bought a candy bar for five cents and a loaf of bread for a quarter and gas used to be fifty cents a gallon too.

The price went up...deal with it. If you can't why not just pull the plug and let those of us who are happy alone.

[Marcus S]

shilton, your post does not even make sense. Another pom pom for justified rate increases. Enjoy! But then cable subs have lived with it for years... My Walmart, people waiting in line (in this economy), what is up with that? Does your lengthy post address the issue? NO! Support your cause by going to your local Kmart.

I have to believe after this post several people have pulled their Jan 2002 statement comparing it with their Feb 2003 statement,
and are now going, OH Crap! :eek2:

My bill has gone up $7.50 since Jan 2002, anyone else? Darn right I am ticked..

Dish 100 $31.99 $33.99
HBO $12.99 $13.99
Super's $4.99 $ 5.99
Denver $4.99 $ 5.99
Dallas $4.99 $ 5.99
LA $4.99 $ 5.99
PBS $1.00 $ 1.50
-----------------------------------
$65.94 $73.44 = $7.50 increase (+lost all distant net side channels)

HDPPV $4.99 now $5.99
SDPPV $2.99 now $3.99

As I said before, it's been an incremental price increase, parallel to cable. And there are still people here that only look at their most recent bill and go -whatever-. "please do not confuse me with the "facts"". Sour grapes? absolutely not, the people that question the issue the most, are simply attempting to justify the experience. :)

[shilton]

Originally posted by Marcus S


My bill has gone up $7.50 since Jan 2002, anyone else? Darn right I am ticked..

Dish 100 $31.99 $33.99
HBO $12.99 $13.99
Super's $4.99 $ 5.99
Denver $4.99 $ 5.99
Dallas $4.99 $ 5.99
LA $4.99 $ 5.99
PBS $1.00 $ 1.50
-----------------------------------
$65.94 $73.44 = $7.50 increase (+lost all distant net side channels)

HDPPV $3.99 now $5.99
SDPPV $2.99 now $3.99

As I said before, it's been an incremental price increase, parallel to cable. And their are still people here that only look at there most recent bill and go -whatever-, please do not confuse me with the "facts".

I will only say that it seems to me that no matter what anyone says you will not be happy. Just doens't make sense to me. If you are so damn dissatisfied with Dish, WHY NOT PULL THE PLUG? By the way, perhaps the reason many others are not so disturbed about the increase as you is most of us don't have 3 different local packages plus the PBS and the HD stuff,etc. You represent a VERY SMALL minority of Dish's customers and thankfully so, as you seem to have the small mind to go with. Like it or not, costs DO GO UP, especially to feed services to those damanding locals, or HD of which you seem to fall into both categories.
And yes, there is some truth to what you say that Dish's increases are parallel to those of cable. That only makes sense, as most of the programming providers are likely to negotiate new rates with ALL their carriers (Dish, DirecTV and cable at or around the same time each year). I still say Dish's rates are lower than MOST cable companies and in case you have not heard, DirecTV is due to rise next quarter.
Finally, lets bear in mind that according to your own math, you are crying over $7.00 per month...that's $84.00 per year or in simpler terms less than 24 CENTS per day! You are doing all this crying over 24 cents. Don't know about your job...but my boss gave me a raise that will more than cover that this year!
Better get a bigger crying towel, as the one you have has to be pretty drenched by now. GIVE US A BREAK!

[Marcus S]

shilton, most minorities are protected by the federal gov or would you speak otherwise, ignore the gov regulations, issues, and facts and post spam bait and yet another lengthy post that does not address the issue. I have seen your only $.24 day commercial, advertised by AT&T/Comcast. It's only... Well gee, I used to only pay $14.95 for 42 channels of cable.

But then according to your calcs, we should just expect a 7% to 12% increase annually and pray that we are all still worthy of the experience.

When do you draw the line? When you are 80 and your DBS or cable bill is now $200 fortop 50 basic alarte?? So when does it stop???

Conformer's usually argue the most, but take no action to solve the problem, but b* to high heavens when they figure it out.

GIVE ME A BREAK!

[jeffwtux]

IMHO, if you are getting all the distant locals in a market like that, you should just shut your mouth and be thankful. I know a few people who would pay $5.99/month for Denver CBS alone(hint, hint up to12 Denver Broncos games a year). With 3 distant local packages and your own local Fox and CBS, you probably get the majority of NFL sunday ticket for $216/year(which will probably about the price next year, you could only pay $144 if you just had 2 distants and still have a majority of the NFL games)

[shilton]

Originally posted by Marcus S
shilton, most minorities are protected by the federal gov or would you speak otherwise, ignore the gov regulations, issues, and facts and post spam bait and yet another lengthy post that does not address the issue. I have seen your only $.24 day commercial, advertised by AT&T/Comcast. It's only... Well gee, I used to only pay $14.95 for 42 channels of cable.

But then according to your calcs, we should just expect a 7% to 12% increase annually and pray that we are all still worthy of the experience.

GIVE ME A BREAK!
Ahhh...but in this case the word "minority" is not meant to have anything to do with race or creed, but rather a very small portion of the consumers who purchase a given product. The government makes no rules to protect you. The automakers once made Studebakers but due to the fact that they lost popularity and were only purchased by a "minority" of the buying public, the automaker stopped making them and they went away over time. Would you imply that the government should have forced the automaker to keep making a car that was losing money. Like I said...if you aren't happy, get out...stop buying the product. We live in a world of free enterprise. Companies can price things however they see fit and you may either choose to buy or not. Is anyone holding a gun to your head? I think not! Many of us feel that the price is still reasonable and justified. It just seems to me that you can't stomach anyone who does not see your point of view.

And yes...for the few "minorities" who buy 3 locals and HD, and National PBS and the Supers, etc...we may be talking about in excess of a 10% increase but for most of the customers, the "majority", we have only seen more like 3-4% which is certainly in line with the rate of inflation. That's my point.

[jeffwtux]

I mean shilton, if I were you, I'd ditch the supers(I think they are worthless now, but that's just me), and you'll get Cinemax and pay less. I say Cinemax for $2.01 is better deal now that the supers for $5.99.

[Marcus S]

Jeff & Shilton, why shut my mouth, when IT'S THE LAW! Please file a lawsuit against the FCC and have them pull all my distant net channels, but then according to your posts, $'s are no object.

Back to one of my points. Friends & Family sell more DBS than any best marketing campaign. If I and others are ticked, friends and family will stay on OTA or on basic cable. And again, no one here seems to want to acknowledge the extent of the not so $2+ price increase. Better to distract the issue with personal assault's.

Jeff & Shilton, it's funny how "the minority" can speak the loudest or are your not familiar Martin Luther King? If I am green and not associated with a lobby, religion or creed, does that make a difference??

Let's not deal with the facts, let's derail the original post. :scratch:

[jeffwtux]

Marcus, I would just consider yourself lucky. Most people would pay a lot more to get distants and still can't. I'll put it anotther way, Dish isn't competing against other distant net offers. Will they lose 1 customer to because they got a better deal on distant nets someplace else?

[Marcus S]

E* will loose, because I can't convenience remaining friends and family to switch after this price increase and several are now leaving. :nono2: I do not wish it, but I have run out of arguments to keep them with bundled cable / broadband pricing with matching DBS pricing.

Will it last, who knows...

I do know that DBS is all digital, and most cable is not. It does not seem to make a difference. It seems to come down to cost, period, a nickle or dime, a $1 or $2. DBS has exceeded most pocket books in a gloom economy and mostly, people are no longer loyal, as long as a bargain is shinning in the distance.

[shilton]

Originally posted by Marcus S
E* will loose, because I can't convenience remaining friends and family to switch after this price increase and several are now leaving. :nono2:
That's ok...most of my friends and family are still signing up in droves, as they see the valuie compared to our local cable, so I guess my friends and family will make up for yours. Mark my words, come the end of the quarter, Dish will announce Subs GROWTH again...not losses. Some people may downgrade, but very few actually will jump ship. Satellite people stick around more than cable people because they have an ownership in the equipment. That causes a certain degree of loyalty. besides...if its CHEAPER than the alternative...why cry about it.

Oh by the way...Martin Luther King was a minority and he did make a difference...but he had many others on his side who shared his views. Most here DO NOT SHARE YOURS and that it why you turn to personal slams against us.

[Marcus S]

shilton, I keep asking the logical question? minority, slams or not. If you consider I am bashing all here over the head with the facts on annual rate increases, so be it. I am glad you are optimistic on sub increases, I wish that too. But E* will be announcing "no growth" for their Feb quarter announcement and blame it on the FCC, Congress, and Economy and no "fact" behind it.. You can visit the Yahoo msg board on the issue. Most investors & DT's are pissed.

Again, no one seems to be able to justify the latest price increase, and many are now questioning last year's price increases.

But then again, you wish to turn this into a personal war. Sorry I brought reality into your realm. :)

I DO NOT SHARE YOURS and please, do not speak for the universe. :us:

[shilton]

Originally posted by Marcus S
shilton, I keep asking the logical question? minority, slams or not. If you consider I am bashing all here over the head with the facts on annual rate increases, so be it. I am glad you are optimistic on sub increases, I wish that too. But E* will be announcing "no growth" for their Feb quarter announcement and blame it on the FCC, Congress, and Economy and no "fact" behind it.. You can visit the Yahoo msg board on the issue. Most investors & DT's are pissed.

Again, no one seems to be able to justify the latest price increase, and many are now questioning last year's price increases.

But then again, you wish to turn this into a personal war. Sorry I brought reality into your realm. :)

I DO NOT SHARE YOURS and please, do not speak for the universe. :us:

Ooops...sorry, I didn't realize I was speaking for the Universe. I just realized reading most of the posts here that are not from you that most of us don't share your point of view.

One final thought...in all the time you have spent reading and re-reading and answering all the posts, enough time has lapsed for the cable company to be at your door hooking you back up.
Enough said...that is my FINAL WORD on the subject so let's bury the hatchet. Nothing I say will make a difference anyway.

[BobaBird]

Originally posted by Marcus S
I have to believe after this post several people have pulled their Jan 2002 statement comparing it with their Feb 2003 statement,
and are now going, OH Crap! :eek2:

My bill has gone up $7.50 since Jan 2002, anyone else? Darn right I am ticked..

Dish 100 $31.99 $33.99
HBO $12.99 $13.99
Super's $4.99 $ 5.99
Denver $4.99 $ 5.99
Dallas $4.99 $ 5.99
LA $4.99 $ 5.99
PBS $1.00 $ 1.50
-----------------------------------
$65.94 $73.44 = $7.50 increase (+lost all distant net side channels)The package price for locals, 2 distants and supers is $17.98, not $19.96/23.96. Are you really paying the first set price X 4 instead of the package price? If so, make sure you really qualify for everything you're getting before you start complaining to loudly.

From dishnetwork.com Network Qualify Results page:
LOCAL PACKAGE - $5.99/mo.
ANY DISTANT LOCAL PACKAGE - $5.99per month per package
ADD UP TO TWO DISH NET PACKAGES OR THE SUPERSTATIONS
Choose ANY ONE package for $5.99 per month.
Choose ANY TWO packages for $8.99 per month.
Choose ALL THREE packages for $11.99 per month.

[bearklaw]

BobaBird, I believe that would be $17.98, not $16.98. Still cheaper than what he is paying though.

-BearKlaw

[Jacob S]

I, in my own opinion, believe the Superstations are worth every penny if not more. To say that a price increase is wrong is to say that a pay increase is also wrong, in which makes up for inflation. I do agree that there should be little or no inflation during hard times and a time of war. I also think over a period of 2 or 3 years these price increases can add up. $2x3=$6 or 5 years even, $2x5=$10 which is quite high but I doubt it would go up that much each time each year.

[BobaBird]

Thanks for catching that bearklaw, my post has been edited to reflect the correction.

[JohnL]

Originally posted by Marcus S

That is exactly right. Also, don't forget locals went up $1 as well, and dish pulled all but the top 4 nets from distant net subs at the same time, and that was a value add? PBS National was $1 went up to $1.50. PPV was $2.99 now $3.99. Anyone want to do some math to figure out, that with all these "little" price increases, your bill has gone up a great deal more than $1 or $2 or is this a sudden revelation to anyone that would trivialize the issue?

Quality of programming on the new channels? At least I don't see it with the exception of the movie channels added.

Wait a minute the Distant packages never included more than ABC,NBC,CBS, and Fox. If you were getting more than the channels mentioned then you were being billed for the Local into Local package, if at some time later Dish determined you were no longer in the the Channels DMA you were moved to the Distant package that included NO other channels other that the Top 4 Networks.

When the Distant Package went up to $5.99 PBS national was included in the new Distant package. Net result if you had PBS National in addition to Distant Nets was a $0.00 price increase.

All Multi Channel providers have gone to the $3.99 PPV price the reason is that the program originator wanted more of the cut and Dish, DirecTV and Cable had to raise the price so that they actually get some revenue out of PPV, imagine that!

BTW for that $3.99 the local Cable CO's don't give you all day access!

[bearklaw]

Originally posted by BobaBird
Thanks for catching that bearklaw, my post has been edited to reflect the correction.

Hey, my math degree has to be useful for something...

-BearKlaw

[Marcus S]

Originally posted by JohnL


Wait a minute the Distant packages never included more than ABC,NBC,CBS, and Fox. If you were getting more than the channels mentioned then you were being billed for the Local into Local package, if at some time later Dish determined you were no longer in the the Channels DMA you were moved to the Distant package that included NO other channels other that the Top 4 Networks.

When the Distant Package went up to $5.99 PBS national was included in the new Distant package. Net result if you had PBS National in addition to Distant Nets was a $0.00 price increase.

All Multi Channel providers have gone to the $3.99 PPV price the reason is that the program originator wanted more of the cut and Dish, DirecTV and Cable had to raise the price so that they actually get some revenue out of PPV, imagine that!

BTW for that $3.99 the local Cable CO's don't give you all day access!

That is not correct. All (non) top 6 networks which use to be available to everyone, included WB, UPN, & that markets PBS (if available in that market). This changed shortly after Dallas was offered in the top 6 and those that sub'd to it initially got to keep the additional channels up until early last year. Then when E*7 went up, people like me who sub'd to Austin Texas lost Austin ABC, CBS, NBC, KLRU PBS and WB same story for anyone else that had a pre-top 6 distant city. I was switched to Dallas with only 4 network channels. For $5.99 I and everyone else, got less.

It is also not correct that "every" distant net sub received free National PBS after the price went up. For me it was already an additional $1 a mo, became free for 6 mo's, and shortly after the increase, it was no longer free again. E* wanted $1.50 to restore the experience, and still does.

PPV is a great money maker for E*, do not be fooled.. @3.99 there is minimum cost to carry, no store overhead, no racks of VHS and DVD's, no store clerk standing there popping their gum while reading the newspaper behind the counter.. For $3.99 here, you can rent a DVD for 3 days and in wide screen format. The store does not appear to be hurting, and I am certain E* is not.

Also for the record, non top 6 distant subs payed $4.99 per distant net because it was before the top 3 package pricing tier was created. Because I had Denver, & LA which where in the top 6, I got $1 off, but Austin Texas remained alacarte and went from $4.99 to $5.99, $1 gone. Also because I had Austin, E* would not bundle Super's in with Denver & LA. Because of the package rule, "ADD UP TO TWO DISH NET PACKAGES OR THE SUPERSTATIONS" The key word being "OR". At $5.99, another $1 gone. You can still get the Super's if you already have 3 nets, but you will pay $5.99 for alacarte Super's. As someone noted, $17.98 for the experience for less choice, and fewer net channels.

[shilton]

Originally posted by Marcus S


That is not correct. All (non) top 6 networks which use to be available to everyone, included WB, UPN, & that markets PBS (if available in that market). This changed shortly after Dallas was offered in the top 6 and those that sub'd to it initially got to keep the additional channels up until early last year. Then when E*7 went up, people like me who sub'd to Austin Texas lost Austin ABC, CBS, NBC, KLRU PBS and WB same story for anyone else that had a pre-top 6 distant city. I was switched to Dallas with only 4 network channels. For $5.99 I and everyone else, got less.

It is also not correct that "every" distant net sub received free National PBS after the price went up. For me it was already an additional $1 a mo, became free for 6 mo's, and shortly after the increase, it was no longer free again. E* wanted $1.50 to restore the experience, and still does.

PPV is a great money maker for E*, do not be fooled.. @3.99 there is minimum cost to carry, no store overhead, no racks of VHS and DVD's, no store clerk standing there popping their gum while reading the newspaper behind the counter.. For $3.99 here, you can rent a DVD for 3 days and in wide screen format. The store does not appear to be hurting, and I am certain E* is not.

Also for the record, non top 6 distant subs payed $4.99 per distant net because it was before the top 3 package pricing tier was created. Because I had Denver, & LA which where in the top 6, I got $1 off, but Austin Texas remained alacarte and went from $4.99 to $5.99, $1 gone. Also because I had Austin, E* would not bundle Super's in with Denver & LA. Because of the package rule, "ADD UP TO TWO DISH NET PACKAGES OR THE SUPERSTATIONS" The key word being "OR". At $5.99, another $1 gone. You can still get the Super's if you already have 3 nets, but you will pay $5.99 for alacarte Super's. As someone noted, $17.98 for the experience for less choice, and fewer net channels.

Marcus...is there anything any of us can say to please you other than YOU ARE SO RIGHT AND WE ARE SO WRONG??? Do you realize that everything anyone else has said has either been disputed by you or you have just chosen to slam the individual who made the comments and rack it up to them going along with corporate America. Seems like no opinion other than your own is correct. I just can't fathom one thing you have failed to answer again and again. If you are so disgruntled over any of the price increases, why do you continue to buy the damn thing? Why not just cancel? That is your right if you so choose. The solution to your troubles seems so simple to me and in case you haven't figured it out...you can complain about the prices all you want but I don't see Charlie changing them to please you.

[Marcus S]

Shilton, so far it appears many people on this post are not aware of the facts surrounding E* rate increases this last year.. Instead you would have people ignore the issues and facts by distracting the issue and berating me for corrections? I am not immune to my own mis-calcs, but so far no one has come forward to prove that this is not a $2 rate increase. There is no "opinion" involved. Please feel free to prove the facts and calcs otherwise. If on the other hand you are happy with the scale of economy, then that's your "opinion" and your choice.

If it turns out the atomic view point by many is that it's only a $2 increase, please don't confuse me with an annual summary, then you are right. I should join corporate america, create a service product, and raise rates $.42 a mo. It's only $.42 a mo you know. :)

[RichW]

"That is not correct. All (non) top 6 networks which use to be available to everyone, included WB, UPN, & that markets PBS (if available in that market)."

Wrong! The only distant local packages that included stations beyond the big-four nets were Phoenix and Salt Lake City. Severla of us had multiple distant packages until SHVIA forced E* to cut them down to two of each big-four nets to a customer. I had SLC, Atlanta, NYC, Chicago, Denver, LA, and San Francisco at that time. The only city that had an "extra" station was SLC. Denver, NYC, and LA did have UPN/WB stations but those were part of the Superstation package.

[Marcus S]

Rich, I had all 6 stations from Austin, TX from the day it became available on E*. I am well aware of what SHVIA forced after the fact. I am also aware that the 1st Dallas subs had 6 stations when it was turned up. You might have been amazed that without the Super's package, Denver WB & KMRA PBS was part of Denver distant net pack before SHIVIA's enforcement. Several people from Manitou and higher elevations received them, later cut, and had to pay $1.50 a mo to get WB2 back or sub to the Super's pak and had to pay another $1.50 recently to get PBS back.

[Richard King]

If I send you a check for $24.00 to cover 12 months of the increase will you stop whining and go away? If so, forward me your address and I will gladly comply.

[dbronstein]

If a $2 a month increase is such a big freaking deal, then switch already.

When prices for other things go up, like groceries or clothes, do you bitch about it this much? Just wondering.

Dennis

[JohnL]

Originally posted by Rking401
If I send you a check for $24.00 to cover 12 months of the increase will you stop whining and go away? If so, forward me your address and I will gladly comply.


No Kidding, ROTFLMA. Maybe all that have answered and posted in reply saying big deal should pay him off with the 30 cents each per month.

Or Maybe this is a big shake down so that the annoyed of us band together to pay his programing Bill. If I complain enough about my banking fees, CSR fees, Teller Fees and other corporate Business Service "TAXES" for the individual I may generate enough sympathy to get a free source of income to shut me up, well maybe not ;>).

John

[mnassour]

Jeeeezus H. Christ, people.....

It's only television!

[Marcus S]

As I said, I am amazed so many really believe it's only a $2 price increase. Funny that the many did not enjoy their cable price increases of $2 ever 4 mo's, but it's ok on DBS when it's split up across packages.

$24 does not cover the $72 annual price increase, but thanks anyway.

[Guest]

I have been lurking on this forum for the last few days. I have to pipe in and agree with Marcus, though, perhaps his passion has caused others to ignore what he said. I have a E* sub from day one and the changes he refers to are accurate. I have to wonder how many people actually do not take a look at these price increases as annual.

I am not planning to leave Dish Network over it, but I certainly have sent my sentiments on the subject to Ms. Soraya Cartright? Doing so, I am will receive my 2 distant nets for free for the entire year. Some times it does pay to complain to the right person. I am disappointed that this seems to be some click group on this forum. I mean, the guy is right even though very unhappy over the issue.

[dbronstein]

Originally posted by Marcus S
As I said, I am amazed so many really believe it's only a $2 price increase. Funny that the many did not enjoy their cable price increases of $2 ever 4 mo's, but it's ok on DBS when it's split up across packages.

Of course that's only if you have a lot of packages. If you just have AT100 like I do, it's just a $2 increase.

Dennis

[Marcus S]

Then you are good to go, but why belittle the avg sub that has at least 1 net package (probably locals), possibly super's and/or a movie package? Please don't get me wrong DB, but their seem to be several people commenting on the subject that don't see it as a big deal because they don't have several packages. If it's less for you than me, then why comment, if you or others are not in that bracket? You are in one end of the spectrum and I in the other, the avgs in between. A non issue for you, a quandary for others, and a flame on my end. Does it lessen the signifcants of the issue??

I also have to ask this question, when your cable company raised rates did you ever think a complaint would level rates? especially when cable thought and still seems to think of themselves as a monoply empire. If you complain to your DBS provider or on a forum, do you believe their is a better chance that someone is actually listening?? Lastly, what is your comfort level before you would consider switching back to cable or DBS providers including 8'. 1) digital DBS, no competive edge in programming, loss of programming. 2) broadband / cable bundled discounts. 3) overall price ? 4) annual / mo rate increases (appears dismissed my most). 5) taxes.

Ironically I would think that rurals are the best family plan referals DBS could want. Charlie stated the merger would be the best thing for rurals. At the end of the day, the rurals hosed the most, and the avg DBS sub not to far behind, and many in denial, because we all thought DBS would put cable out of business. It's also another blow that Charlie after all unfullfilled promises proves he is a sore looser and wants to put E* on the auction block. What does that say to long term subs and potential new subs in general? How much will your DBS billl have to go up before either you tell the entire industry to shove it or switch providers? No one complained until, WHEN?

I offer my PC advice freely to friends and family. Did you upgrade your virus protection? No I was to busy.. Did you run system repairs after a program did or did not install sucessfully? No, I was to busy.. Did your system crash and your calling me at midnight?? or did your DBS bill suddenly exceed your comfort price level??? How the heck did that happen... :confused:

[Guest]

People don't want to hear it, like to live in denial, or have money burning holes in their pockets.

[Jacob S]

I predict that they will try to even out package pricing. They put a price guarantee on the top50 package until 2005 but I think that the top100 will become $34.99 and the top150 package will become $44.99 so that they are $10 in price apart instead of $9 apart just as they were before when they were $19.99 for top40, $29.99 for top100, and $39.99 for top150.

The premium channel prices has actually not increased as much as the basic packages have, at only a $2 increase vs. ~$5 on the basic channel packages, a little more for top100.

[dbronstein]

IMO, annual increases of $2-3 are reasonable. The cost of programming goes up, and we have to pay for it. That's life. If you don't like it, don't pay.

I will never go back to cable unless it's a last resort. It has nothing to do with price, the service sucks. There are outages all the time, and whenever you call you're on hold for an hour. With Dish, I have only had a couple of outages for a few minutes because of heavy storms. When I call CS, I usually never wait on hold.

I do have a cable modem because that's the only option for broadband in my neighborhood. So I can get a TV/Internet cable bundle, and I'm still sticking with Dish.

The simple fact is no amount of complaining is going to get Dish to rescind or reduce the price increases. If they lose mass amounts of customers, then they might. But crying about it while you write them a check every month isn't going to do anyone any good.

Dennis

[Mike123abc]

When I first switched to Dish the difference between Dish and my cable company for the equivalent of the Everything Package+Superstations was $40. Now after 2 years of price increases by Dish the difference is now $45. In other words the cost of cable went up $5/month faster than the Dish increases.

[Chris Freeland]

I currently sub to AT150/Supers/PBS/Atlanta and Denver NBC and CBS, I also have 2 STB's. My bill is now $60.97, Comcast Digital Plus w/Preferred Service with 1 STB and analog feeds to extra tv's would cost me $54.94 or $61.46 with 2 STB's. My area currently does not have locals on E* or D*, if I dropped everything that I currently get from E* except AT150 and the extra STB and added Limited Basic from Comcast at $8.75, my total bill would be $57.73, almost $3 more then digital cable with 1 STB or almost $4 les then digital cable with 2 STB's, for what I get now their is no longer much difference in price, for now I will stay with E* for tv because I like the E* line up and service better then digital cable here, but for the biggest packages here their is no longer much of a price difference. On the other end of the scale, AT50 at $24.99 + $8.75 for Limited Basic Cable for a total of $33.74 compares to Preferred service at $40.99 for roughly the same number of basic channels, on the low end E* is still much cheaper until you start adding extra STB's.

[FTA Michael]

There's a saying I like to quote: "Yesterday is gone, and we are the only survivors." I prefer yesterday's prices for groceries, cars, and TV, but they're all gone now. It's a waste to complain about that fact.

Dish's prices are out there today for everyone to evaluate. Every subscriber can make his/her own decision on whether it's worth the money. There are millions of subscribers who vote with their checkbooks that it is. There are millions of non-subscribers who vote that it isn't, or that something else is better.

Obviously there's room for a wide spectrum of opinion whether it's worth it, but it's ultimately an individual decision. Take your time, choose what you want, and move forward. We have lots of tomorrows to plan.

[jeffwtux]

Sorry Marcus, but the average customer doesn't have Supers, period. You are lucky to stil have them. Most people could care less about Supers right now. Anybody who still has them clearly really wants them, like you. So how can you blame Dish for raising their rates. I SAY THEY SHOULD BE $7.99. Who's going to protest if they do? The tiniest minority.
They won't get one bit of complaints from the government or consumer groups and won't lose one single customer. Only on this board are Supers in demand.

[jeffwtux]

The average customer doesn't "possibly" have supers. The average customer doesn't have them period.

[Jacob S]

That is probably because they do not know about them. Most of the people I talk to does not have them and does not know what it is like to have them. There are no free previews of these channels either.

[Mike123abc]

Well probably small market people find out about supers because if you are in a market without UPN/WB and put your address in for locals those will come up as able to be subscribed. If you do not have a local UPN/WB you might be inclined to subscribe to them when they do pop up.

Why would the average person want supers if they can get UPN/WB in a local package? People in small markets without them will probably subscribe, people in large markets (probably 90% of the population) would not pay to get a channel they get locally.

[scooper]

Exactly - I took The Superstations until my local WB/UPN/PBS stations became available. Once I could get my local ones, I saw no point to getting the Supers (for extra money).

[RJS1111111]

Originally posted by scooper
Exactly - I took The Superstations until my local WB/UPN/PBS stations became available. Once I could get my local ones, I saw no point to getting the Supers (for extra money).

I still like the supers. You can catch "Enterprise" timeshifted,
and they still show "Voyager" and "DS9" reruns. WSBK carries
WBZ Boston local news. NYC local news is also sometimes
interesting. KTLA has a good morning news show, if you
happen to be at home then. Sure, the uniqueness of the
lineup has declined in some cases when a local UPN or WB
station becomes available, but it's still worth the extra few
bucks a month for me. I wish they could allow everyone to
get all of the locals (subject to spotbeam coverage), but
that's just dreamin' on my part.

[Chris Freeland]

If E* adds Chattanooga locals I will keep my Supers because the package combined with locals would only be $8.99 and my market does not have a full-time full-power UPN station. The local CBS station does have Enterprise on Saturday nights at 7 pm, but no other UPN programing that I am aware of, the full UPN schedule is on a Low-power station here but Comcast does not carry it and I am certain that E* would not either even if they do add Chattanooga. Having the Supers also gives me the opportunity to time-shift WB programing and a wider selection and times for syndicated shows then what is available from my locals.

[waydwolf]

Originally posted by Cyclone
I haven't see this much hysteria about $2 since that movie "Better off Dead".

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACK!

*chokes on dinner*

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Now I have this image of Charlie Ergen on the roof of a car ranting, "TWO DOLLARS!"

&nbsp;

[waydwolf]

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; How much does each principal cast member of "Friends" make per episode each?

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; How much does Oprah get each year?

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; How much does Peter Jennings cost?

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; What does it cost to run ABC?

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; What does it cost HBO to produce just one channel of programming, never mind several?

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; How much is a satellite uplink station technician paid per year in salary and benefits?

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; How much is paid to dealers to supposedly pass on to installers to put those dishes up?

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Do these prices ever go down?

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; What does the economy look like?

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; By what stretch of the imagination do so many people think that artificially low prices can continue forever with satellite?

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; At least your cable company is up front and honest with their increases and doesn't spend years lying to you by holding prices down without regard to the eventual consequences which are either lump sum or rapid fire increases to the stratosphere.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Think cable isn't a bargain? Consider that the vast majority of "cable&nbsp;guys" are skilled technical labor and not&nbsp;unskilled nontechnical labor,&nbsp;yet are paid miserably like the latter. If the cable installers ever successfully unionize like the phone company, don't even dare to imagine the cost of the salary increases won't be passed to you and count on the satellite installers&nbsp;joining that union.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "Better cable than cable" only holds if you compare an early DBS industry to thirty-six channel cable. Equalization in cost to you and channel offerings is finally coming calling, so maybe it isn't about the technology but something else? Maybe not the deliverymen cable or satellite, but the producers who are made confident by American viewing habits that they have the right to forever hike programming charges until angels trip over them?

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Unless you can convince America to tune out TV altogether, the demand will be there to justify escalating costs which *MUST* in the end be passed on to the customer at the end of the chain.

&nbsp;

[Mark Holtz]

In response to waydwolf, the advantages that cable has over DBS (at least in my area) is that it has the broadband access.

DBS has the edge in cable companies when it comes to PVRs. Both DirecTV and Dish Network have Set top boxes which integrate PVR functionality as part of the set top box. Cable's plan is, instead of intergrated set-top boxes, is to have Video on Demand which generates additional revenue. Want the new channels or an expanded premium lineup? You have to go to a digital tier.

The biggest source of fee increases is the sports channels, with E$PN and YE$ charging the most. Some of us would just like to jettison those channels off our lineups. Yet, by contract, E$PN is carried on the lowest-possible tier whether you like sports or not.

DBS not being upfront about increasing program costs? Guess you missed the Charlie chats where he said that Dish is in negotiations, but that a channel or two may be dropped.

ANd, mind you, I have DBS because it keeps my mother happy. Otherwise, I wouldn't have cable or DBS at all. I would just stick to my DVD collection.

[Mike123abc]

Actually cable may have the edge soon with PVRs. I have used Time Warner Cable's box. It is pretty much the same as a 721. Two tuners with PiP. Will record 2 shows at once. It is like 9/month (replace your digital cable box), and you do not pay for the box just the monthly fee. And it does named based recording off the week long program guide.

[Marcus S]

If any one here can tally the annual increase of their basic 100 / 150 package + locals + a movie package and compute = $2... Either you are an Echostar singer or you need a new calculator. But then Charlie already eluded to another $1 increase by the end of the year and since everyone here is already comfortable with their not $2 price increase, I am sure another $1 will not hurt anyone. :goodjob:

It's only a $1 or $2 or $3 or $4 or $5 or $6. Let's see how many will reply after this thread and will still post it's only $2, what is the big deal! Here's your sign. :righton:

For those that wonder where the real price increase came from... Lost distant subs that dropped E* after spot and returned to C-Band. I do expect ESPN to become a sports pak as E*'s contract with ESPN expires 1/2004 or expect another $2 increase next year on top of the $1 that Charlie is threating by this fall.

Where working our way to Dish 100 + locals - movie = $39.95 or would that be cable's current offering?

But then many would argue that any price increase is justified.

[jeffwtux]

Disney shouldn't gotten away with overpaying the TRUE MARKET VALUE of the NBA. NBC LOST MONEY from their last NBA contract. If advertisers didn't value the NBA at its previous price, why should subcribers be forced to? We need to do something to make the cable/DBS carriage agreements and customer subscriptions more fluid markets. THERE IS NO WAY THAT THE FREE MARKT SUPPLY AND DEMAND WOULD VALUE THE NBA AT IT'S current contract,

[Jacob S]

Why not offer current long-term subscribers some pvr or up to date receivers for a monthly fee/rental fee?

[dishrich]

Originally posted by Marcus S
For those that wonder where the real price increase came from... Lost distant subs that dropped E* after spot and returned to C-Band.

I assume that you DON'T have ANY credible evidence for this, since all these "distant subs that dropped E* & returned to C-band" would have to requalify for distant nets, since they would have most likely dumped their neworks from C-band when they canceled their subscriptions. Since everyone knows how most local stations do NOT like to give out waivers, I highly doubt all these returning subs were buring up the phone lines to the couple C-band providers to scream & holler to get their nets back. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[jeffwtux]

dishrich:

I big time disagree too. Distant local and superstation subscriptions make up a tiny fraction of the customers, but a much larger fraction of this chatroom(especially the superstations). Any drop or rise in distant local or superstations will have zero impact on profits compared to AT50, AT100, and AT150 costs and subscriptions as well as movie channel subscriptions.

[Marcus S]

C-Band does not fall under SHVIA. C-Band sub's can sub to distant nets with minimal qual. Who where DBS early adopters? Rurals?? Do they make up a large % of total DBS subs today, not any more. Potential metro subs at the time where still trying to figure out what DBS was.

Actual net costs? From Nielson subscription service. E* pays a fixed rate of $.50 per sub for ea net + PBS. WB & UPN $.35. Side channels free, only carried, forced through must carry. *D pays slightly more but absorbs it from other packages.

Such newbees. All conus nets where available to all the qual'd before spot. Is the avg sub a Dish 100 or 150 only sub only. No... You make up as much of the population as the remaining rural distant net subs. Avg = Dish 100 or 150, locals, and a movie package... Metro's win! or should I say we all loose. :coffee

The 6000 never to receive OpenTV as of TechChat tonight and not because it can't support it. It has as much memory as a 501/508. E* to lazy to customize a one off software upgrade, 6000 discontinued soon, and people waiting in line @ $900 a pop for the 921, at least according to E* marketing morons.

Side b* they did this before and where burned! :mad2: To bad they learned nothing from the 5000 to 6000 6 mo delivery gap, while *D subs where rolling in the isle with laughter. Now we get a tech forum devoted to the wonders of HD Plasma, an obsolete technology replaced by LCD by the end of the year. PicCells? Pixels you idiot! This guy reminded me of Ozzy.

And then another $1 increase for Dish 100/150 subs due by the end of the year and more significant gaps in equipment line up. 4900 replacement still does not exist, closest PVR508. 6000, no cheap replacement, 921 @ $921. Oh sure, that fits into most pocket books in this economy.

But then the avg sub may be doing the math to suddenly figure out that incremental increase over annual = :confused:

[JohnL]

Originally posted by Marcus S
C-Band does not fall under SHVIA. C-Band sub's can sub to distant nets with minimal qual. Who where DBS early adopters? Rurals?? Do they make up a large % of total DBS subs today, not any more. Potential metro subs at the time where still trying to figure out what DBS was.

Actual net costs? From Nielson subscription service. E* pays a fixed rate of $.50 per sub for ea net + PBS. WB & UPN $.35. Side channels free, only carried, forced through must carry. *D pays slightly more but absorbs it from other packages.



Marcus,

Dish negotiates retransmission agreements, the rates are not fixed for or by each affiliate at 50 cents, rather the affiliates negotiate this rate. It may well be that Dish will pay a maximum of 50 cents per Major Network affiliate but this is hardly fixed or the same from market to market.

John

[Marcus S]

John, that is correct. It is the max that E* will pay. No wonder so many re-trans disputes. New contracts are asking $.67. Bye bye. ABC under annual contract renewal. We will see this issue surface again by this time next year. EISNER only more greedy than Charlie. I personally will see no loss in ABC if it comes down to that.

[RichW]

Someone said that us rural subscriber will be "hosed" under the new prices from Dish. I had been paying $79.93 per month. My new bill is for $80.93 - a mere dollar increase. That is less than a 1.5 percent increase in my rates. Not even worht the energy to grumble (plus I have two new channels that I didn't have before).

Since my raise this January was much more tha 1.5 percent, I now spend proportionately LESS of my income on DBS service. I can't say the same for my monthly phone, electricity, and natural gas bills. And of course, my petrol bill is skyrocketing.

This rural boy is still happy with DBS!

[bencjedi]

Consider you also don't get taxed on Dish Network service... When I had cable oh do long ago they charged school tax and other taxes raising the bill at least $2 more than what I think it should have been. Dish Network has never charged me these ridiculous taxes.

[Bill R]

Originally posted by bencjedi
Consider you also don't get taxed on Dish Network service.
While that is true right now for many customers it may not be true for long. More and more states are considering a tax on satellite service. See this story. (http://www.skyreport.com/skyreport/feb2003/021803.shtm#one)

[Richard King]

We get taxed at about 11.5% here in Florida. :(

[Curtis0620]

Originally posted by Bill R

While that is true right now for many customers it may not be true for long. More and more states are considering a tax on satellite service. See this story. (http://www.skyreport.com/skyreport/feb2003/021803.shtm#one)

And it sucks big time.

[Marcus S]

Originally posted by RichW
Someone said that us rural subscriber will be "hosed" under the new prices from Dish. I had been paying $79.93 per month. My new bill is for $80.93 - a mere dollar increase. That is less than a 1.5 percent increase in my rates. Not even worht the energy to grumble (plus I have two new channels that I didn't have before).

Since my raise this January was much more tha 1.5 percent, I now spend proportionately LESS of my income on DBS service. I can't say the same for my monthly phone, electricity, and natural gas bills. And of course, my petrol bill is skyrocketing.

This rural boy is still happy with DBS!

And of course you have been paying $79.93 since Jan 2002? But then no one seems to want to acknowledge the ugly truth. Just based on your total price your DBS bill has gone up at least 7% since Jan 2002. It's called an incremental "annual" increase". At least cable typically throws the price increase at you all at once, but then most certainly don't like that but are more comfortable with incremental pain?? I guess it's easier to ignore..

[Richard King]

At least cable typically throws the price increase at you all at once:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Sorry, I lost control. It really hurts when you blow your Pepsi up your nose this early in the morning. :lol:

[Nick]

Hey, I tried blowing Pepsi up my nose once, but I couldn't get my lips up to my nostrils.

Hmmm... "nostrils". Now that's a funny word.

[Marcus S]

And then the clowns rush in to distract the issue yet again.

[Cheyenne]

Marcus, why the name calling?
If you are so against the DBS industry, why return to the forums?
What are you intentions?
No need to fret over the little things.
Be happy.

[Marcus S]

Funny Cheyenne, I was just about to ask the same questions of you. But then your thread on another post was actually meant as a warm greeting, helped the poster how, and obviously was not meant as a personal attack. The posts I am getting are one pak subs stating it's only $1 and people that have nothing better to do than blow Pepsi through their nose contest's. Neither of which have anything to do with multi-pak subs which just received an annual 7% hike, or this post. I call um as I see um.

Cheyenne Writes: If the package does no meet your needs/terms, then don't buy it !

[Cheyenne]

Huh... guess this thread is dead?
Thanks for your wonderful input Marcus.

[Marcus S]

Thanks for your constructive thoughts. :)

[Jacob S]

No need to be so hasty. Yes it did get off topic but maybe he meant it was so funny that pepsi went up his nose when he started laughing about what was said. Sometimes you have to have some fun when things seem so gloomy. Sorry that I also got off of subject as well.

[Guest]

My bill just went up $2 for Dish 100. Expired annual HBO went up $1, Annual Dish Latino went up $1 and my annual locals went up $1. Who on this forum quoted only $1 increase? I am done and out of here. I canceled my Dish subscription today even when they tempted me with a free PVR. I just saved $10 a mo by switching back to -evil- cable after bundling my broadband with Adelphia's 125 pack.

[Jacob S]

I predict it will be $25 top 50, $35 top 100, $45 top 150, nice round numbers that are more evened out, in the future, to make things simpler.

[Marcus S]

Agree. I don't think Charlie is helping his empire any further by dropping Dallas, spooling a buggy software release to the 721 that brought down many, yet again, and increasing package prices. I hate to say, being a long term E* sub, it's becoming a joke at retailers to entice potential new subs considering E* as a provider.

I have run out of excuses myself to defend E* on these issues. It is what it is.