South Bend, IN Locals

[James]

This is an e-mail I sent to WSBT in South Bend, IN.

"DirecTV Satellite has just announced that they will be adding 50
more local markets to their line up by the end of this year. Have they or
Dish Network contacted you folks about adding the South Bend markets?

James Staples"

Reply:

"Our station has had some very preliminary discussions about feeding our
signal to one of the satellite broadcasters (I don't think I can share the
name with you for confidentiality reasons). Our hope is that the satellite
viewers in this area will be able to see WSBT off of the satellite in the
coming year.

Todd Schurz"

Any one else heard any rumors?

James

[James Long]

I wonder if they will try to spin a deal to include their UPN channel (now available on WSBT-DT) as part of any deal to have their public CBS feed on the birds. I would.

JL

[TNGTony]

Dish Network uplinked all 5 South Bend locals on 105° today (Wed). That may be the satellite company they are talking about. :)

They are not yet available to subscribers.

See ya
Tony

[James]

Dish Network uplinked all 5 South Bend locals on 105° today (Wed). That may be the satellite company they are talking about. :)

They are not yet available to subscribers.

See ya
Tony
D* has also announced South Bend but nobody knows when.

[jimisham]

Dish Network uplinked all 5 South Bend locals on 105° today (Wed). That may be the satellite company they are talking about. :)

They are not yet available to subscribers.

See ya
Tony

Then they're not including all the stations if they're only uplinking 5 now.
I wonder if they're not uplinking the LP stations one of which is ABC and the other WB. For some reason none of the cable systems on the Michigan side of the state line are carrying the WB channel and only three are carrying the ABC channel. That's assuming our newspaper's TV section is correct. I think some of Channel 46's programming is already up on Sky Angel.

As far as DirecTV is concerned the chief engineer at WSBT confirmed by e-mail two or three months ago that their station will be the LRF for DirecTV. At that time he didn't know how DirecTV was going to get the other stations' signals to the LRF.

[James]

Then they're not including all the stations if they're only uplinking 5 now.
I wonder if they're not uplinking the LP stations one of which is ABC and the other WB. For some reason none of the cable systems on the Michigan side of the state line are carrying the WB channel and only three are carrying the ABC channel. That's assuming our newspaper's TV section is correct. I think some of Channel 46's programming is already up on Sky Angel.

As far as DirecTV is concerned the chief engineer at WSBT confirmed by e-mail two or three months ago that their station will be the LRF for DirecTV. At that time he didn't know how DirecTV was going to get the other stations' signals to the LRF.


What city is ABC out of? They way I understand it, they cannot ad it if it is from another DMA.

James

[TNGTony]

Then they're not including all the stations if they're only uplinking 5 now.

Sorry...I should have said they are now uplinking all the full power TV stations in that market. I would not hold my breath for the local LP/CA stations.

My guess is that the Chicago or Indianapolis ABC will be made available to those who qualify.

See ya
Tony

[James]

Sorry...I should have said they are now uplinking all the full power TV stations in that market. I would not hold my breath for the local LP/CA stations.

My guess is that the Chicago or Indianapolis ABC will be made available to those who qualify.

See ya
Tony


Most likely Chicago because it is considered a distant network.

[jimisham]

What city is ABC out of? They way I understand it, they cannot ad it if it is from another DMA.

James

It's in South Bend.
All the stations are in South Bend except for WSJV 28 which is Fox and WNIT 34 which is PBS. They are in Elkhart.
But the towers for all of them are located south of Mishawaka within a short distance of each other.
WSJV was an ABC affiliate for years until Fox got that football contract several years ago. They moved to Fox and the area was without a ABC station for a short time until Weigel Broadcasting out of Chicago came in and put in a LP station on channel 58 (now 57)in South Bend and a LP translator in Michigan on channel 69.
The translator on channel 69 was moved to South Bend and now apparently is WMWB Channel 25, a WB station. The history of WMWB is a little hard to follow. There also appears to be a WRDY, also owned by Weigel, on Channel 69 now and that transmitter looks like it's still in Michigan. But I don't know if it's OTA.

[James]

What is an LP Station? :confused:

[jimisham]

What is an LP Station? :confused:

Low Power.

Channels 16, 22 and 28 run about 5000 KW. Channels 34 and 46 run over 1000 KW each.
The LP stations are running much lower power. According to the 100KWATTS web site WMWB (57) and WBND (25) are running 37.8 KW and 58.2 KW respectively.

[James]

Low Power.

Channels 16, 22 and 28 run about 5000 KW. Channels 34 and 46 run over 1000 KW each.
The LP stations are running much lower power. According to the 100KWATTS web site WMWB (57) and WBND (25) are running 37.8 KW and 58.2 KW respectively.


Is it not posible to uplink these? Sorry, this is all new to me.

James

[James Long]

There also appears to be a WRDY, also owned by Weigel, on Channel 69 now and that transmitter looks like it's still in Michigan. But I don't know if it's OTA.
WRDY is on the air (if you consider the color bars and call letters broadcasting). IIRC the tower is in with the other South Bend/Elkhart broadcasters near Ironwood Rd south of US20 around South Bend. There was a sign directing construction traffic there (if that is what you can call a piece of plywood with WRDY grafitti style painted on it).

7091 WSBT TV 22 (CBS - South Bend, IN)
7092 WNDU TV 16 (NBC - South Bend, IN)
7093 WSJV TV 28 (Fox - Elkhart/South Bend, IN)
7094?
7095?
7096 WNIT TV 34 (PBS - South Bend, IN)
7097 WHME TV 46 (LeSea - South Bend, IN)

They have left the gaps ... I suppose they could give us an out of market ABC, I'd say NY, to fill in those gaps. But I suspect that people who can get "ABC 57" would be out of luck.

I'd still like to see WSBT-DT's "UPN" feed apear on DISH. Nearly *ALL* local cable providers have added the feed. It isn't an issue of what legally is required as much as what the customers demand.

BTW: Lesea is on SkyAngel, 9719 World Harvest TV - plus one of their radio stations is 9752 PulseFM (96.9 in the Bremen-South Bend area).
Lesea's other broadcast stations in Indianapolis, Tulsa and Hawaii are on Echostar.

JL

[James Long]

Is it not posible to uplink these? Any signal that reaches the uplink site is "possible", but burning up bandwidth to feed LPs costs money. South Bend might be the one market where an LP fed on DISH, since it *is* ABC.

JL

[dishrich]

Any signal that reaches the uplink site is "possible", but burning up bandwidth to feed LPs costs money. South Bend might be the one market where an LP fed on DISH, since it *is* ABC.

JL

Actually, D* carries several LP stations, IF they are affiliated with the "big 6" nets. One example is the LP-UPN station in LasVegas - I know there are others.

E*, OTOH, pretty much thumbs it's nose up at ANY LP station, no matter the affiliation. But, like you said, maybe since this IS the local ABC station for South Bend, maybe E* will make an exception.

[TNGTony]

Dish will not carry a channel they don't have to. LP and CA (Calss A) channels do not qualify for "Must Carry" (http://ekb.dbstalk.com/19#MC) They also do not have syndicated exclusivity protection since the FCC set them up to be truly LOCAL channels with LOCAL content catering to the NEIGHBEHOOD they are in. Dis does carry ONE LP channel right now, but that channel is a repeater of a full power channel in the same market (www.dishchannelchart.com)

As to the gaps in the channel numbers, Dish has a set way they number their channels. The gaps are there just in case a future channel goes up. There are two ways Dish has the locals up right now:

ABC xxx0 or 5
CBS xxx1 or 6
NBC xxx2 or 7
Fox xxx3 or 8
WB xxx4 or 9
UPN xxx5 or 0+10
PBS xxx6 or 1+10
Leading independent xxx7
Univision xxx8
Telemundo xxx9
Telefutura xxx0 + 10*
TV Azteca xxx1 + 10*
* If the market does not have these affiliates, the remaining stations in the following order:
Additional PBS,
Additional Independents,
Additional Spanish
Additional Ethnic,
Additional major network affiliates.

The only time Dish will cram station numbers one behind the other is after the first 7 and generally only in the series stating with xxx5.

In Dallas, the Telemundo and Independent channels are in the "wrong" locations only because there was an affiliate swap after the stations were uplinked. ...IIRC, the same day that Dish turned them on 1/1/2002

See ya
Tony

[Brett]

Dish will not carry a channel they don't have to. LP and CA (Calss A) channels do not qualify for "Must Carry" (http://ekb.dbstalk.com/19#MC) They also do not have syndicated exclusivity protection since the FCC set them up to be truly LOCAL channels with LOCAL content catering to the NEIGHBEHOOD they are in. Dis does carry ONE LP channel right now, but that channel is a repeater of a full power channel in the same market (www.dishchannelchart.com)


But a local network station (ABC, NBC, CBS or Fox)'s Grade B contour (from either full power or low power station) prevents a distant network of them from being allowed to be sold without waiver/RV.

If Echostar wants to offer ABC in that market, they would only be able to offer a distant ABC affiliate in the white areas of the market. The low power ABC station will have its protected area on its Grade B contour. This from SHVIA, and applied with the DecisionMark distant network database. There is no super station with the ABC affiliation that E* can offer and charge a buck fifty extra for in this case. ABC Family though carries few of shows from ABC Network, on a repurposed basis.

[TNGTony]

Looking HERE (http://www.ardman.net) there are no grade B signals from ANY station in Elkhart or South Bend (downtown zips). Going west from there, you run into the Chicago market. So grade B would not be a problem as long as Dish gets a blanket waiver from the Chicago ABC station to allow itself to be sold to its own grade B area in another market (Ain't the SHVIA wonderful?)

Going east, you don't have a problem until you get the the extreme east portion of the DMA. There you run into Fort Wayne ABC affiliate.

Going south, there are only a few spots in Fulton Co. that MIGHT have a problem with the Indianapolis ABC.

Going north, the extreme north portions of Cass and Berrien Counties in Michigan have a problem with the GR ABC affiliate.

So...that the lead from the Jackson and the Anchorage DMA's. Those who qualify get Chicago ABC as part of the package. Those who don't pay $4.99.

For those that may not know, Jackson, MS (for now) does not (or didn't until very recently) have a Fox affiliate. It's either just gone on line or will very soon. Dish offered the Atlanta Fox Affiliate to Jackson customers.

In Anchorage, the local NBC is refusing to give Dish retransmission concent. Dish is piping in the Seattle NBC affiliate for those who qualify for a distant NBC station.

So the precident for what I'm proposing will probably happen is already there.

See ya
Tony

[Mike Richardson]

Why don't they just carry the bloddy local ABC channel. Just quadrouple compress it!

[Brett]

Tony, try WBND in the Call Sign text box. Then Submit Query. Then click the call letters hyperlink. It shows South Bend as within the Red Circle (Grade A), and Elkhart within the Blue Circle (Grade B).

Since both DirecTV and Echostar are using the Decisionmark databases, a better place than ardman is this one:
http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressEntry.asp

DirecTV site also gives the local affiliate call letters of the network stations that are "serving" an address. Use a real address (of maybe a gas station...from yahoo! maps), not just a zip code, because a zip code entry alone can give inconsistent results.

A more critical factor is Weigel Broadcasting that owns the station has flaky (if not poor) relation with Dish.

Dish doesnt carry the Chicago independent affiliate WCIU 26, because Dish refuses to pay for indy stations. The Milwaukee CBS which is full power though UHF, probably Weigel's only leverage, isnt carried yet as Milwaukee LIL hasnt begun. Weigel could likely be a hold up for a long time. Dish probably wants the CBS and ABC affiliates, as long as they dont have to pay for the independent station in Chicago or low power ABC, and maybe only minimally for the CBS affiliate in Milwaukee.

I'm surprised ABC even gives Weigel the ABC affiliation in that market.

In Phila. market we have low powered ABC repeators, but from the nearby market. W27AJ in Dover, DE (within the Philly DMA) carries WMDT 47's Salisbury signal instead of WPVI 6. WO7DC in Allentown carries WNEP 16's signal instead of WPVI. Its not uncommon for ABC owned stations to allow nearby low power stations

But, It would seem to make more sense for Disney/ABC to own the low power outlet or start their own LP or get a cable feed, and then make it a satellite or shared product of the nearby ABC WLS 7 from Chicago that they own. Unfortunately, Disney is way too distracted raking its obscene revenues for ESPN, to be focused thinking about ABC as a top priority. They wouldnt care if Echostar and a local affiliate are possibly hurting ABC's exposure.

[Brett]

Something of contradiction (again another Stupid SHVIA flaw),

The FCC considers a network affiliate as:


(A) a television broadcast station, including any translator station or terrestrial satellite station that rebroadcasts all or substantially all of the programming broadcast by a network station, that is owned or operated by, or affiliated with, one or more of the television networks in the United States which offer an interconnected program service on a regular basis for 15 or more hours per week to at least 25 of its affiliated television licensees in 10 or more States; or


So translator stations, terrestrial satellite stations and low powered stations are being considered by DecisionMark in network delivery,

but SHVIA says:


‘‘(5) TELEVISION BROADCAST STATION.—The
term ‘television broadcast station’— 9
‘‘(A) means an over-the-air, commercial or 10
noncommercial television broadcast station li- 11
censed by the Federal Communications Com- 12
mission under subpart E of part 73 of title 47, 13
Code of Federal Regulations, except that such 14
term does not include a low-power or translator 15
television station; and 16


http://www.fcc.gov/mb/shva/shvia.pdf

(Page 14 of the Acrobat file)

So basically WBND shouldnt even be considered a television broadcast station to begin with!

However, DecisionMark is considering low power stations (stations that are not licensed as full power) when it comes to networks serving HH, like how prior FCC definition includes.

The cost efficient 'fix' would be for Echostar or DirecTV to acquire Nielsen Media Research, then publish a new edition of the DMAs. SHVIA allows for 1999–2000 Nielsen Station Index Directory and Nielsen Station Index United States Television Household Estimates or any successor publication A new publication geared for satellite TV, could have the nation to be covered by fewer DMAs. It would reduce the number of POPs the providers need, and the number of markets that need to be uplinked. This would cause enough disruption in the status quo to break off the NAB's grip.

[TNGTony]

Why don't they just carry the bloddy local ABC channel. Just quadrouple compress it!

Mike,

Because of another clause in the SHVIA. All stations in the market need to receive "equal treatment". This clause is what sent a few people off the deep end when Dish got away with putting minor locals of a DMA on the side satellites and the major locals on Dish 500. But I'm positive that giving one local much less bandwidth than another in the same market wouldn't fly.

Tony, try WBND in the Call Sign text box. Then Submit Query. Then click the call letters hyperlink. It shows South Bend as within the Red Circle (Grade A), and Elkhart within the Blue Circle (Grade B).

Brett,

Low Power TV stations have zero standing when it comes to outside signals invading their area. Why? Because Low Power stations were NEVER intended do have anything but programming specifically targeted to the local area. These were supposed to be neighborhood channels with neighborhood content. Think of it as "access" for those without Cable TV. So it doesn't matter what the signal grade of WBND-LP is. If it were WBND-TV, that would be another story.

Dish will not carry WBND-LP. I'm pretty sure of that. I am pretty sure that the Chicago ABC station (ABC/Disney) will not object to Dish lecally extending its reach west by a few counties. And Weigel Communications will be the only one not at the Milwaukee local launch party. Milwaukee is now uplinked to 105, so Dish is going ahead with or without them. Tell me who the big losers are in this move. Hint: It's not Dish.

See ya
Tony

[Brett]

Tony, even the Echostar address broker wont allow ABC distants in South Bend. That WBND-LP station has right to block a distant ABC.

[TNGTony]

I stand by my statements. South Bend will NEVER get WBND-LP and it will eventually get the Chicago ABC affiliate as the ABC feed for most of that DMA.

See ya
Tony

[Brett]

Echostar can choose not to carry any of Weigel's channels and I am not disagreeing there. Echostar has more leverage in numbers to do what they please, being that there are 3 MSO providers, 2 of which they compete against, while the TV station has to compete against several of local stations and hundreds of cable channels. But come 2006 when exclusive deals will be allowed between a cable company and a TV station and "good-faith" is set to expire, Echostar will likely loose carriage deals of many network affiliates and be unfavored amongst the broadcasters. But I get back to the point:

If E* offers WLS into WBND's territory, it could likely cause legal issues if WBND notices what Echostar is doing. The DecisionMark database recognizes low power network affiliated stations when it comes to served HH. Echostar would be simply ignoring what the database is showing.

For satellite purposes, WLS is technically a distant, not a local, station in the South Bend DMA. WLS has not bought syndicated rights for any of the King Word Shows (Wheel, Jeopardy, Oprah). The CBS affiliate there (WSBT) has bought exclusive rights for those shows and would object to WLS claiming that market. There is no significantly viewed exception in SHVIA.

People in majority of the market are served by the ABC Network, through the low power station WBND, thus making the area not a white area and not eligible for distant ABC, WLS.

Disney/ABC may be able to negotiate carriage for something with Echostar (maybe a direct ABC feed for that market), but Disney would not want its affiliation structure disrupted with Weigel's station and would be negotiating at loss. Meaning Disney might not be easy to negotiate with either.

[TNGTony]

Brett...I understand what you are saying 100%. I don't know how else to phrase this...

Low Power Stations (CA and LP) have NO SyndEx protection! Noe, zip, nada zero, zilch. It's just that simple.

Yes. WLS is a distant station. But as far as the SHVIA is concerned, there IS NO LOCAL ABC in South Bend! But it only has to get permission from itself to invade its own grade B area in the western part of the DMA. The extreme north, east and south edges of the DMA are another story.

See ya
Tony

[Brett]

Tony, PLZ check the dish network and directv addressbrokers (come direct from DecisionMark) with some South Bend and Elkhart, IN addresses. ABC distant result as not available.

The DirecTV broker even indicates WBNT services that region, making that area already served for ABC, by WBNT.

As for the network affiliates (of ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox), syndicated exclusivity and network non duplication only apply to cable TV purposes (and if for satellite-only for the 5 superstations). Its based on a contract basis(exclusive contracts) and application of that. FCC handles disputes where need be, and created an exception "significantly viewed" which allows cable companies the freedom from not having to black out SV stations, even if a more local (and inDMA) station has bought the market rights for a show(s).

There is greater leeway in this context because contracts can always be adjusted or modified for the exception markets.

For networks (ABC CBS NBC Fox), SHVIA is based on Grade Bs (served, unserved) HH, and served homes includes low powered station network affiliate's Grade B coverage areas. Distants are allowed for unserved HH (or unless waiver/RV is present, or some grandfathering). FCC has no jurisdiction in this regard. The court in Miami handled the network's dispute of Echostar offering distants to served HH.

[jimisham]

Here's an article regarding low power TV stations that appeared in the South Bend Tribune several years ago:

"The conversion from analog to digital may jeopardize the future of low-power television stations such as local ABC affiliate WBND-TV.

Although the owners of WBND insist that they will continue to broadcast to Michiana viewers after the switch, the road ahead is uncertain. When the Federal Communications Commision assigned digital TV channels last year, it failed to make allowances for the 1,800 low-power stations across the country.

Created in 1982 primarily to establish opportunities for locally oriented service in small communities, low-power television is accorded "secondary'' status by the FCC. That means that these stations' dial positions can be usurped.

"Low-power stations basically have squatter's rights,'' explained Chris McConnell, an assistant editor who covers the FCC for Broadcasting and Cable magazine.

"They're operating on a spectrum that no one is using. But if the FCC wants to use that spectrum, they can be booted,'' he said.

McConnell said that could happen to "a large fraction'' of low-power stations, as the FCC assigns an additional channel to each full-power station.

"The (full-power) commercial stations will need another channel for digital ... There will be twice as many stations but less space,'' McConnell said.

The April 1997 FCC order addressing the assigning of frequencies notes that although low-power TV has made significant contributions to the public, there is "not enough spectrum during the transition period to accommodate every low-power service.''

Locally, the FCC has assigned Channel 58 -- WBND's position -- as the digital channel for Fox affiliate WSJV-TV (Channel 28)."

WBND started broadcasting on Channel 58 but when WSJV put their digital signal on the air, WBND had to move to 57.
I live in Berrien County, Michigan about 30 to 35 miles from the antenna farm south of South Bend. When our local cable system put them on, the picture was terrible. I found out that I was eligible for distant NY and LA ABC stations so I subscribed. Since then they're putting in a pretty good signal for cable and I dropped the distants.
I just checked the DirecTV addressbroker and according to that WBND puts in a Grade B signal here and I'm not eligible.

[James Long]

I'm surprised ABC even gives Weigel the ABC affiliation in that market. I'll file that under despiration.

When ABC lost WSJV 28 to FOX it was a huge hole in their national coverage. I believe they would have accepted ANYONE as a affiliate just to get on the air. I believe that dropping in their own O&O LP would not be an option at that time due to ownership issues.

BTW: Dish Network's website says that I qualify for only the PBS national feed and WB or UPN Superstations (at this time). Unless ABC 57 is there I won't have any ABC feed in my locals package, and neither will the majority (population) of the viewers in the South Bend market.

JL

[James Long]

I've attached a map of the South Bend Market and ABC Affilliates that have grade B coverage. WRTV-6 Indianapolis actually falls short and doesn't enter from the south, but WLS Chicago, WOTV Battle Creek, and WPTA Fort Wayne do cover portions of the "South Bend" Market.

Enjoy ...

JL

[Mike Richardson]

Mike,

Because of another clause in the SHVIA. All stations in the market need to receive "equal treatment". This clause is what sent a few people off the deep end when Dish got away with putting minor locals of a DMA on the side satellites and the major locals on Dish 500. But I'm positive that giving one local much less bandwidth than another in the same market wouldn't fly.

Yeah, I know. I was mostly kidding.

LIL, broadcaster's rights, etc, are all screwed up. Just to get locals on satellite means jumping through too many hoops. But if you ask me, if E* is serious about South Bend, they should just carry the LP channel rather than giving some people this distant channel, and other people, no ABC, and other people, some other kind of funky deal. It would be simpler. The only barrier is E*'s anti-LP policy and probably some other funky law I don't know about.

[James]

Yeah, I know. I was mostly kidding.

LIL, broadcaster's rights, etc, are all screwed up. Just to get locals on satellite means jumping through too many hoops. But if you ask me, if E* is serious about South Bend, they should just carry the LP channel rather than giving some people this distant channel, and other people, no ABC, and other people, some other kind of funky deal. It would be simpler. The only barrier is E*'s anti-LP policy and probably some other funky law I don't know about.


I bet D* will have South Bend ABC. ;)

[James Long]

And what (if anything) will Dish do with these two:
9995 WZPX-TV 43 Battle Creek WB/Pax
9997 WXSP-CA 15 Grand Rapids UPN

Those two have been up on 148 for a while, but not given to subscribers.
If they have bandwidth to waste for those why not put up ABC57?

Fortunately I'm within the Class A of all but ABC57 ... so I'm not a likely customer for locals. Besides, once DTV tuners drop in price I'll be able to get a better picture and more sub-channels OTA than D* or E* will ever bother putting on their systems.

E* will probably not put up ABC57 ... *Thousands* of customers will get locals for $4.99 and others will get Chicago ABC for $5.99 . Colorado decision makers could really CARE LESS about what their customers want or what the competition does. So what if *every* other TV provider offers ABC57 and WSBT22DT's UPN feed? That doesn't change Charlie's boys decisions. E* doesn't have to *serve* the customers to sell service. All they have to do is undercut prices.

JL

[Mike Richardson]

If it's a UPN or a WB then E* could just say get the superstation.

[TNGTony]

If anyone has ever looked at the channel chart (www.dishchannelchart.com)...take special notice of footnote 13. :D It refers to WBQC CA here in Cincinnati.

BTW, great map, JALurker!

See ya
Tony

[James Long]

If anyone has ever looked at the channel chart (www.dishchannelchart.com)...take special notice of footnote 13. :D It refers to WBQC CA here in Cincinnati. Perhaps if we can get WXSP-CA public and WBND ABC57 linked and online it will be more pressure to get yours up there ...

Of course WHY they put Grand Rapid's WXSP and WZPX on 148 is a good question, especially with WLLA in the Grand Rapids Market rumored to be on 61.5 . Strange decisions in Colorado (and I'm not talking about the court ruling regarding Sky :) ).

JL

[Josh]

I get WLS as a local channel right now. I started receiving it a couple of years ago when I tried to get a waiver. I was able to receive it because Dish said it was not a local channel.