Buy or Lease (Which is it?)

[NYSat]

I was just on the phone h a Retension rep. I told him I was i the market for a HD DVR and I was curious as to what I can get through Directv. He said:

1. 199.99 over 3 monthly payments
2. 99.99 +19.99 with a 24 month extension of my contract.

These are a lease

I said then isn't it better to just buy it in the store? He told me that even if you get it in the store, it is still being leased. How is that?

[Sirshagg]

I believe you have to pay about $500 now to own them. Otherwise wherever you get it it's a lease.

[RobertE]

I was just on the phone h a Retension rep. I told him I was i the market for a HD DVR and I was curious as to what I can get through Directv. He said:

1. 199.99 over 3 monthly payments
2. 99.99 +19.99 with a 24 month extension of my contract.

These are a lease

I said then isn't it better to just buy it in the store? He told me that even if you get it in the store, it is still being leased. How is that?

Because it is.

New receivers acquired after March 2006 are leased. Doesn't matter where you get them.

You do have the option to own them if you want, but be prepared to pay considerably more.

[Mike728]

It's a lease either way. Same price, too.

[curt8403]

I was just on the phone h a Retension rep. I told him I was i the market for a HD DVR and I was curious as to what I can get through Directv. He said:

1. 199.99 over 3 monthly payments
2. 99.99 +19.99 with a 24 month extension of my contract.

These are a lease

I said then isn't it better to just buy it in the store? He told me that even if you get it in the store, it is still being leased. How is that?

only Directv themselves are able to sell you a directv rcvr, everyone else does the lease method. and to own a hd dvr it is about 599

[carl6]

There have been many discussions here about owning versus leasing. When you stop and consider all the factors involved, leasing generally turns out to be the better option for most people.

With a leased unit, even without the protection plan, you get replacement for a defective item for the cost of shipping for as long as it is active on your account. If you own it, then replacement cost is yours after (I think) a 90 day warranty period.

The monthly recurring cost is the same whether your unit is owned or leased. The first receiver/DVR on an account is included in the programming package and each additional is $4.99 (DVR fee is in addition).

One argument for owning versus leasing is to avoid a committment. But the buyout cost will reach a point part way through your term where it is less than the purchase cost differential. Unless you expect to be a very short term customer, you will pay more by owning in most cases.

Another argument is the ability to sell the unit and recover cost when deactivate it. Again, unless that is fairly near term, technology will generally outpace you, and the value of your unit on the used market will be minimal (especially compared to the up front cost).

Carl

[naijai]

also what is the use of the receiver you own if you leave Directv just a very expensive ht item or just another dust magnet

[Doug Brott]

Personally I've been happy moving to the lease model, but your mileage may vary. As for the original question, yes, the receiver purchased through DIRECTV or through a vendor (BB, Costco, etc.) are leased not owned. DIRECTV chooses to ask for this payment up front where cable companies will tend to have a higher per-month lease fee.

[weedeater]

There is a lease fee that you don't have to pay if you own.

[Christopher Gould]

There is a lease fee that you don't have to pay if you own.

its called a mirroring(lease) fee then, why can't people get this simple problem straight

[texasbrit]

There is a lease fee that you don't have to pay if you own.


This is a complete misunderstanding. You either pay a lease fee, or (if you own the box) a mirroring fee, but not both. The monthly fee is exactly the same whether you own or lease the box

[Stuart Sweet]

There aren't a lot of advantages to "owning". You pay more, and sure you have the right to open it up and upgrade the drive but if it breaks then you're out the full price for another one. With a lease they'll send you another for shipping and handling usually.

[DrZ]

Call them back and say that your going to jump to dishnet or cable. It wont take long for them to offer you a new HD-DVR for the cost of shipping ($19.99). However, be prepared to have to sign up for a 24 month contract.

[carl6]

Call them back and say that your going to jump to dishnet or cable. It wont take long for them to offer you a new HD-DVR for the cost of shipping ($19.99). However, be prepared to have to sign up for a 24 month contract.

And also be prepared to have them shut off your account and charge any applicable early termination fee. They are NOT generally falling for the "do it or I leave" story any more, they are calling people on it.

Carl

[SDizzle]

Call them back and say that your going to jump to dishnet or cable. It wont take long for them to offer you a new HD-DVR for the cost of shipping ($19.99). However, be prepared to have to sign up for a 24 month contract.

It has been documented around here a few times recently that they are calling people's bluff!! Only say it if you mean it!!!!!!!

[Ken S]

Before telling people that DirecTV will replace any leased receiver for just the cost of shipping please post a link to their website that states that will be the case. All I can find is the 90 day warranty and then you're on your own. This means if after 90 days your leased receiver needs repair/replacement you'll be required to pay for it and continue your programming commitment.

They may have done otherwise in some cases, but unless they're willing to put it in writing I wouldn't depend on it happening again...stating otherwise to new customers is really doing them a disservice.

Here's the clause in their lease agreement:

CARE OF EQUIPMENT. You are responsible for the loss of or any damage to the DIRECTV equipment that you have leased from DIRECTV. You shall have no right to sell, give away, transfer, pledge, mortgage, remove, relocate, alter or tamper with the DIRECTV equipment at any time. DIRECTV PROVIDES YOU THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT AS IS, AND MAKES NO WARRANTY, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, REGARDING THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. ALL SUCH WARRANTIES INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ARE EXPRESSLY EXCLUDED. DIRECTV IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES RELATING TO THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. In the event the DIRECTV equipment you have leased from DIRECTV does not operate, contact DIRECTV at 1-800-531-5000.

[dhaakenson]

its called a mirroring(lease) fee then, why can't people get this simple problem straight

It should be obvious why people can't get it straight. DTV creates confusion by changing the name of a standard fee, one every customer incurs when activating secondary receivers, based on whether receivers are leased or owned. Why have two names for the same fee if they are not different?

In truth, if you don't lease your receiver, you do not have to pay the lease fee. You have to pay the mirroring fee. As others have said elsewhere, though, perhaps they have different names because they are taxed differently by the states.

But even better, why have a name for the fee at all? Just say there's an additional $4.99 fee for secondary receivers for each account. And tax it one way.

[dhaakenson]

Good points, Ken. Two key things pop out for me:

The word 'relocate', as others on this board have alleged their commitment increased when they merely moved their receiver to a different room in the house.

And this: "DIRECTV PROVIDES YOU THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT AS IS, AND MAKES NO WARRANTY, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, REGARDING THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU." Love that, as with DTV's software, which also is provided "as is", so apparently is the actual equipment.

How is the customer able to assess whether they adequately are receiving service from a box and software provided "as is" if they have to enter into a lease with a lengthy commitment in order to assess whether they can adequately receive the service?

[RobertE]

I've tried to point this out before, mostly it falls on deaf ears. Just because they have replaced boxes out of warrenty for shipping + new commitment, they are under zero obligation to do so.

Before telling people that DirecTV will replace any leased receiver for just the cost of shipping please post a link to their website that states that will be the case. All I can find is the 90 day warranty and then you're on your own. This means if after 90 days your leased receiver needs repair/replacement you'll be required to pay for it and continue your programming commitment.

They may have done otherwise in some cases, but unless they're willing to put it in writing I wouldn't depend on it happening again...stating otherwise to new customers is really doing them a disservice.

Here's the clause in their lease agreement:

CARE OF EQUIPMENT. You are responsible for the loss of or any damage to the DIRECTV equipment that you have leased from DIRECTV. You shall have no right to sell, give away, transfer, pledge, mortgage, remove, relocate, alter or tamper with the DIRECTV equipment at any time. DIRECTV PROVIDES YOU THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT AS IS, AND MAKES NO WARRANTY, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, REGARDING THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. ALL SUCH WARRANTIES INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ARE EXPRESSLY EXCLUDED. DIRECTV IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES RELATING TO THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. In the event the DIRECTV equipment you have leased from DIRECTV does not operate, contact DIRECTV at 1-800-531-5000.

[michaelp95]

CARE OF EQUIPMENT. You are responsible for the loss of or any damage to the DIRECTV equipment that you have leased from DIRECTV. You shall have no right to sell, give away, transfer, pledge, mortgage, remove, relocate, alter or tamper with the DIRECTV equipment at any time.

So technically when you move, you are in violation if you use their movers connection program because in their own legalese you can't remove or relocate the recievers.

[randyk47]

I think that's a bit of a stretch. If you contact DirecTV and enroll in the Movers Connection Program then you'd be moving the equipment with their knowledge and approval. Now I've not moved with leased, mine was all owned at the time, but I guess with my now leased HR20 they could ask me to turn it in and get a new one at my new location. OK by me.

[johnzim63]

As long as we're getting all legalistic:

How is it that the words warranty and lease are even used together? Or: If you don't actually own a thing, why would you need to be protected against its premature loss or failure? There must be some state laws or something that define this relationship better than Directv's orwellian doublespeak. :confused:

[harsh]

As long as we're getting all legalistic:

How is it that the words warranty and lease are even used together? Or: If you don't actually own a thing, why would you need to be protected against its premature loss or failure? There must be some state laws or something that define this relationship better than Directv's orwellian doublespeak. :confused:Several have offered that by using the term "lease" at least in part to avoid an obligation to repair the equipment that might be implied by calling it a "rental". 90 days is an awfully short warranty so there may be some wiggling to avoid being compared to the competition that offers a one year warranty.

[Ken S]

As long as we're getting all legalistic:

How is it that the words warranty and lease are even used together? Or: If you don't actually own a thing, why would you need to be protected against its premature loss or failure? There must be some state laws or something that define this relationship better than Directv's orwellian doublespeak. :confused:

You can have a warranty on a leased item. Remember sometimes you don't lease an item from the company that made it.

I wasn't trying to make a legal distinction...I was trying to let people know that some folks on this forum are stating that DirecTV is going to do something they are under no obligation to do. Other far less questionable statements get pounced on around here immediately.

[johnzim63]

Sorry, Ken, didn't mean to pounce. Just trying to get some more opinions on this issue. This forum is by far the best source of real information on satellite tv. :)

[Ken S]

Sorry, Ken, didn't mean to pounce. Just trying to get some more opinions on this issue. This forum is by far the best source of real information on satellite tv. :)

Johnzim,

I wasn't referring to your comment.

It just seems a bit odd that should a poster state that DirecTV has one less HD channel than DirecTV posts on their website that poster will get taken to task by a mob around here. Or, if someone posts about opening their DVR up they'll get all sorts of posts about breaching their agreement and warranty.

But when it comes to some fairly serious inaccuracies about DirecTV's policies on repair/replacement of leased receivers...well...that's seems to be okay around here.

Now, maybe I'm wrong maybe DirecTV is giving free replacements (except for S/H) on any leased receiver that becomes defective. I'm sure with all the DirecTV people that visit this forum someone could confirm that policy and/or correct the DirecTV website/manuals.

[johnzim63]

Indeed. It seems to me the D* apologists feel outnumbered by the complaining mob, so they sometimes compensate with vociferous--even shrill--counterpoint. But it's all good.:grin:

[dodge boy]

We need a sticky or somnething in big freakin' RED letters that says D* equipment is now leased..... We get 2 of these threads a month... :)

[K4SMX]

....Now, maybe I'm wrong maybe DirecTV is giving free replacements (except for S/H) on any leased receiver that becomes defective. I'm sure with all the DirecTV people that visit this forum someone could confirm that policy and/or correct the DirecTV website/manuals.
No, I looked at the agreement long ago and concluded the same as you. I think the confusion has arisen because of the fact that even though they are by the terms of the agreement not required to replace a leased receiver which fails after 90 days, as a matter of policy they are doing so for $19.95 s/h for those who do not have the Protection Plan.

This means the "$19.95 s/h deal" can be changed at their option. However, if you think about it, the $19.95 is equivalent to 4 months of the PP. This amount, when compared with the $5/mo. PP's 30 day rule $14.99 early use exception, all makes rough economic sense. I would think there's no real reason for them to change the status quo unless they also change the current features of the PP.

Notwithstanding the above, I have noticed a general tendency reported here of CSR's frequently insisting on a revenue-generating service call to replace obviously defective receivers for those who are out of 90 day warranty who don't have the PP. This tendency is the reason for the, "It's stone cold dead," customer counter-response to this bogus practice. :)

The use of the term "warranty" in the agreement would seem to apply (in addition to the equipment) only to the cost of a service call during the 90 days if one were required to replace a receiver, applicable to those who for whatever reason can't do this on their own, as well as the $19.95 they would otherwise charge for those who can replace their own receiver.

[dhaakenson]

We need a sticky or somnething in big freakin' RED letters that says D* equipment is now leased..... We get 2 of these threads a month... :)

Unfortunately, since customers can still buy the equipment from DTV customer service, the sticky would still have to say that some new receivers are leased, some new receivers are owned, and receivers older than March 2006 are also owned.

[RobertE]

Johnzim,

I wasn't referring to your comment.

It just seems a bit odd that should a poster state that DirecTV has one less HD channel than DirecTV posts on their website that poster will get taken to task by a mob around here. Or, if someone posts about opening their DVR up they'll get all sorts of posts about breaching their agreement and warranty.

But when it comes to some fairly serious inaccuracies about DirecTV's policies on repair/replacement of leased receivers...well...that's seems to be okay around here.

Now, maybe I'm wrong maybe DirecTV is giving free replacements (except for S/H) on any leased receiver that becomes defective. I'm sure with all the DirecTV people that visit this forum someone could confirm that policy and/or correct the DirecTV website/manuals.

On the flip side Ken, look at the the other threads that basicly say "Screw D*" their a big corp, stick it to the man. Find any thread asking about a landline. Your customer/lease/programming agreement states that you will maintain a working landline and have it connected to your box. But, look at all the threads that say you don't need it. Need/not need doesn't matter, you've agreed to it. But, many say, pfft, doesn't matter. Or again, the opening of the box. You agreed not to tamper/modify the box. But again, others say, "They will never know". Doesn't matter, you made an agreement, live by it.

I find it funny that people in general only want things enforced when it benifits them. When something that doesn't benifit them, it's bloody murder on how evil a corp is, or how all the fanboys, apoligists & shills come out of the woodwork. Please. :sure:


*Note: Not aimed at you specificly Ken. You = everyone out there in the real world in general.

[K4SMX]

.....I find it funny that people in general only want things enforced when it benifits them. When something that doesn't benifit them, it's bloody murder on how evil a corp is, or how all the fanboys, apoligists & shills come out of the woodwork. Please. :sure:.....
The formerly wild birds have been known to become quite irate when their birdfeeder is not replenished regularly.....:)

[Upstream]

I find it funny that people in general only want things enforced when it benifits them. When something that doesn't benifit them, it's bloody murder on how evil a corp is, or how all the fanboys, apoligists & shills come out of the woodwork.

That's not true. There are plenty of us who just want DirecTV to be transparant and consistent. If they want to lease, fine. But be clear and consistent with the fee, commitment, and replacement policies. It's the never knowing where you stand, getting different responses from every CSR, and inability to make informed, economic choices that's the problem.

This is the same root problem as appeared in the Free Protection Plan thread. DirecTV's policies and processes are so convoluted and confusing, no one can figure out where they stand, what they're paying for, and what they should expect in return. And when mistakes are made, no one can figure out what the mistake was and what the correct process should have been, and DirecTV can't figure out how to fix the mistake.

[johnzim63]

... DirecTV's policies and processes are so convoluted and confusing, no one can figure out where they stand, what they're paying for, and what they should expect in return. And when mistakes are made, no one can figure out what the mistake was and what the correct process should have been, and DirecTV can't figure out how to fix the mistake.Sounds like how the IRS operates, don't it?

"IRS's policies and processes are so convoluted and confusing, no one can figure out where they stand, what they're paying for, and what they should expect in return. And when mistakes are made, no one can figure out what the mistake was and what the correct process should have been, and IRS can't figure out how to fix the mistake."

I knew it sounded familiar! :D

[Upstream]

John -- read the last line in Ken's signature.