View Full Version : How much installers should do or will?
yarrumc
02-29-08, 01:39 PM
I am slated to have D* installed Sunday. I was just told by my Association that the place I wanted to mount the dish is not allowed and that sort of put me in a bind. The next best spot and that is allowed, might involve some wire fishing into the attic, so that it won't be running inside my bedroom for one and it would be the cleanest and shortest path to the upstairs room where the TV is. Is it pretty standard for an installer to expect and do these types of installs (e.g. not just pulling wire from outside through a hole in a wall into a room with the receiver)? Might I have to slip him a few bucks to consider?:confused:
litzdog911
02-29-08, 01:47 PM
Check out the installation FAQ here ...
http://tinyurl.com/yb7fvj
yarrumc
02-29-08, 02:05 PM
Thanks. Maybe I missed something, but that appears to be a receiver install FAQ. I am asking about what work the D* installers can do or will do (specifically with running cable) and what I might have to be extra for?
Have the installer look at the options. If he can put it at location "x" as part of the standard installation, but would charge $$ extra to put it in location "Y", I'm not sure your association can force you to have it at location "Y". Others can provide more detail, but there are federal regulations that limit what an HOA can and cannot do with regard to dish location.
Carl
I suspect it depends on the installer. Several years ago, when I moved, the installer ran the cables from the dish into the attic via a hole in the roof eve and fished the wires through the attic to the home-run area. Didn't charge anything and didn't even hesitate at doing it. Hopefully, you'll get an installer who takes pride in his work and does a nice job for you. If he does, give him a tip for his trouble and good work.
SDizzle
02-29-08, 03:19 PM
My sister just had a mover's connection done, and the install was not a typical install....I told her to drop him $40 or so, he really went out of his way to install on a high pole and such as it is on a balcony and had to get over the roofline to get a LOS.
yarrumc
02-29-08, 03:21 PM
I suspect it depends on the installer. Several years ago, when I moved, the installer ran the cables from the dish into the attic via a hole in the roof eve and fished the wires through the attic to the home-run area. Didn't charge anything and didn't even hesitate at doing it. Hopefully, you'll get an installer who takes pride in his work and does a nice job for you. If he does, give him a tip for his trouble and good work.
Thanks, that is what I expected. It will be hit or miss. I just got some help from my bro n law for tonight, so we'll see what could be done and even start something, if we think it will save me some money (make the hole and have a string pulled through, so the installer can pull the cable through).
ironwood
02-29-08, 03:25 PM
I suspect it depends on the installer. Several years ago, when I moved, the installer ran the cables from the dish into the attic via a hole in the roof eve and fished the wires through the attic to the home-run area. Didn't charge anything and didn't even hesitate at doing it. Hopefully, you'll get an installer who takes pride in his work and does a nice job for you. If he does, give him a tip for his trouble and good work.
Its not just about pride. My compay and Directv only pay me for basic installation so if I spend 6 hours on a job instead of 3 because of wallfishing then following things will happen:
- company has to pay me 3 hours overtime
- if I damage your wall or electrical wires my company has to pay for damages
- my next appointment will be rescheduled or even cancelled if customer gets upset and switches to DishNetwork
As a result my company might have to pay more money, Directv can lose a customer and I will get in trouble or even fired. Personally I always go extra mile for my customers but the way orders are assigned we really dont have much time to do that extra work.
Its not just about pride. My compay and Directv only pay me for basic installation so if I spend 6 hours on a job instead of 3 because of wallfishing then following things will happen:
- company has to pay me 3 hours overtime
I thought a thread a while ago said - The installers get paid the same whether the job takes 1 hour, 2 hours, 10 hours or whatever.
It takes 3 more hours on a job because of wall fishing ?
RobertE
02-29-08, 04:44 PM
I thought a thread a while ago said - The installers get paid the same whether the job takes 1 hour, 2 hours, 10 hours or whatever.
It takes 3 more hours on a job because of wall fishing ?
It could when all the the holiday decorations and years of junk in ones attic need to be moved out of the way. :sure:
NetRaider
02-29-08, 06:24 PM
I recommend running quality RG6 from all drops to a central location yourself. Then have the installer run the dish connection to the distribution point and make the run connections. This way you can assure that you get the quality you want require. Even if you have to hire a dedicated wiring company and pay a few extra bucks you will be happier in the long run.
ironwood
02-29-08, 07:57 PM
I love when customers help me with wall fishing. It cuts time in half because I have never been in his attic so I am the explorer going inside egyptian pyramids, he on the other hand has been in that attic hundreed times he knows where not to step and where exactly the right location and fireblocks etc. Same with crawling under trailers those guys do it so quick its amazing.
BattleZone
02-29-08, 09:36 PM
It could when all the the holiday decorations and years of junk in ones attic need to be moved out of the way. :sure:
Or when there is 2 feet of blown-in insulation in an attic that is 3 feet tall. Or when the attic is constructed with joists that make it nearly impossible to get to the location where you need to drill. And in California, that attic can easily be 150F or more during the summer.
Then there are the crawl-space wall fishes, where there is 12" of clearance, at least where there aren't sewer lines, air ducts, etc. Or there is 2" of stagnent water under the house. Or the soil is filled with all of the extra concrete chunks that you have to crawl over. Or, like what happened to one of my installers YESTERDAY, you get bit by a spider and have a 3" puss blister on your swollen arm.
Installers don't get paid anywhere near what any other industry does for very similar work. Find out what a plumber or electrician charges per hour to work in these areas, and compare it to the $10-15/hour most installers actually make...
NetRaider
02-29-08, 10:02 PM
Installers don't get paid anywhere near what any other industry does for very similar work. Find out what a plumber or electrician charges per hour to work in these areas, and compare it to the $10-15/hour most installers actually make...
That's why they cut corners and why I always do it myself. If you want it done right, ...
ironwood
03-01-08, 12:14 AM
Actually not all installers cut corners. It depends on a person like in any other area or job. Some are hardworkers others are lousyworkers. In this industry hardworkers are not compensated for extra work therefore there arent many of them.
yarrumc
03-03-08, 01:58 PM
Actually not all installers cut corners. It depends on a person like in any other area or job. Some are hardworkers others are lousyworkers. In this industry hardworkers are not compensated for extra work therefore there arent many of them.
Well, my install went fine. The installer did go up in my small attic area (with my help), after I explained the only places I was allowed or felt the dish could go. He agreed and it was all done in about 1.5 hours. Although I was getting signal loss errors on my local hd channels and or blank channels (after he had left), I am not sure how much time was spent alligning the dish and he never did check the signal strength from the receiver (just did the setup process and there was a picture). So, that is probably a topic in another thread. I guess I will have to figure out what strength I am getting on each transponder and see if that is the first problem and go from there.
SockMonkey
03-03-08, 02:06 PM
I am slated to have D* installed Sunday. I was just told by my Association that the place I wanted to mount the dish is not allowed and that sort of put me in a bind.
I see that I am a little late with this, but for future reference, the association can not tell you where to put your dish according to the FCC...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
Bob
SledDog
03-03-08, 02:32 PM
I was just told by my Association that the place I wanted to mount the dish is not allowed and that sort of put me in a bind.
Why are they saying the area your want to place the dish is not allowed? Is it because you want to place it in a common area, or part of the building structure that you don't own?
houskamp
03-03-08, 02:43 PM
Some times it's easier to meet them half way (ask and try to put it in a spot they are happy with) than to fight...
yarrumc
03-03-08, 05:06 PM
Why are they saying the area your want to place the dish is not allowed? Is it because you want to place it in a common area, or part of the building structure that you don't own?
Yes. I believe they have the right to designate a common dish location ( I can understand this) and that they have. If the location doesn't work, then you have to get approval for another. They are aware that they have to allow dishes, but they apparently can say where they want them to be.
yarrumc
03-03-08, 05:38 PM
Some times it's easier to meet them half way (ask and try to put it in a spot they are happy with) than to fight...
The spot I put it was one of the approved and the only other spot that was even acceptable from a cabling standpoint. I would think the installer wouldn't have left it as is, if he thought it didn't have a LOS. Also, in the afternoon, the dish was in full sunlight, which indicates to me that it was not affected much at all by the ledge of the roof (which was in question of the LOS clearing it). I would be concerned if I was seeing it in the shadow of the roof (I know that isn't an end all conclusion).
I was going to create a new thread about something I questioned, but maybe I will ask it here. I noticed that the one cable on the receiver side had what appeared to be a thin wire on the outside of the plastic, inside of its own cover. I noticed it was only on that cable, not on the other (two lines run to the hr21-700). That wire was cut short of being within the connector. Is that a ground wire? Would that cause any issue with my signal?
houskamp
03-03-08, 05:53 PM
The spot I put it was one of the approved and the only other spot that was even acceptable from a cabling standpoint. I would think the installer wouldn't have left it as is, if he thought it didn't have a LOS. Also, in the afternoon, the dish was in full sunlight, which indicates to me that it was not affected much at all by the ledge of the roof (which was in question of the LOS clearing it). I would be concerned if I was seeing it in the shadow of the roof (I know that isn't an end all conclusion).
I was going to create a new thread about something I questioned, but maybe I will ask it here. I noticed that the one cable on the receiver side had what appeared to be a thin wire on the outside of the plastic, inside of its own cover. I noticed it was only on that cable, not on the other (two lines run to the hr21-700). That wire was cut short of being within the connector. Is that a ground wire? Would that cause any issue with my signal?
that would be a ground wire thats molded into the cable.. should be one of them hooked up(some way to ground dish)
yarrumc
03-03-08, 05:57 PM
that would be a ground wire thats molded into the cable.. should be one of them hooked up(some way to ground dish)
So does it matter if it is not within the connector to the receiver? I would think it would also get cut off when stripping the wire anyway, would it not?
houskamp
03-03-08, 06:07 PM
So does it matter if it is not within the connector to the receiver? I would think it would also get cut off when stripping the wire anyway, would it not?
It's an independent wire.. just a "convience" for the installers(as apposed to running a separate wire).. would be hooked up to a ground on one end and dish frame on the other..
yarrumc
03-03-08, 06:20 PM
It's an independent wire.. just a "convience" for the installers(as apposed to running a separate wire).. would be hooked up to a ground on one end and dish frame on the other..
It is not hooked up on the inside. Can I strip that part and ground it? Any suggestion to where I could ground it to? Would that affect anything or should I just leave it?
RobertE
03-03-08, 06:25 PM
It is not hooked up on the inside. Can I strip that part and ground it? Any suggestion to where I could ground it to? Would that affect anything or should I just leave it?
Don't bother. The other end probably isn't hooked to anything anyway.
houskamp
03-03-08, 06:33 PM
It is not hooked up on the inside. Can I strip that part and ground it? Any suggestion to where I could ground it to? Would that affect anything or should I just leave it?
big question is: Is there any ground on the dish?
yarrumc
03-03-08, 06:42 PM
big question is: Is there any ground on the dish?
What do I look for? At a quick glance yesterday, it just looked like the cables where connected just outside the dish, to the LNB's. I am not home, but I will check later, if I can see in the dark well enough.
houskamp
03-03-08, 06:46 PM
look for a small wire attached to the frame of the dish.. then follow it and see if it's hooked to a ground rod or waterpipe..
yarrumc
03-03-08, 06:49 PM
look for a small wire attached to the frame of the dish.. then follow it and see if it's hooked to a ground rod or waterpipe..
I can almost guarantee it's not then. Because it is installed on the second story of my condo to a wood frame. There is no ground rods around that I know of and I am sure there is no exposed water pipes either. Not that it matters, but I live in Southern California (we don't have many lightning storms).
joe diamond
03-03-08, 09:29 PM
Somewhere there IS a service ground rod and your electric system and phone are grounded to this 8 ft. ground rod. The cable from the dish SHOULD decend to a GROUND BLOCK near the ground rod. A (10 ga) ground wire from the ground block (Where the cables meet the exiting pre wired cable going into your home) should be independently clamped to the ground (6 ga) wire.
The smaller wire on the cable should be connected to the dish and the ground block.
The other ends of the pre wired cables going into your home should end at ports in rooms where the TVs will be installed.
Many installations are different from this model.
Installer can, for a fee, modify existing wire plans to meet the FREE Basic installation DTV offers.
They will not do all for FREE...........this is not well explained by DTV.
Joe
I am slated to have D* installed Sunday. I was just told by my Association that the place I wanted to mount the dish is not allowed and that sort of put me in a bind. The next best spot and that is allowed, might involve some wire fishing into the attic, so that it won't be running inside my bedroom for one and it would be the cleanest and shortest path to the upstairs room where the TV is. Is it pretty standard for an installer to expect and do these types of installs (e.g. not just pulling wire from outside through a hole in a wall into a room with the receiver)? Might I have to slip him a few bucks to consider?:confused:
Wall fishes cost extra but I would always choose a wallfish with a nice clean cable run through the attic over a regular run.
I wound up paying 52.50 x 3 for 3x wall fishes but much prefer it over having cables and/or holes through my wall. Everything is in the attic and I made sure before the installer left the cabling was nice and neat and looked professional.
I also tipped the original installed $40 for making it look spot on.
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