MFH-2 Wiring & Equipment Help & Explanation

[hellyea]

Thank you to so many people on this forum. I have learned alot more through this forum than by calling D* or my SysOp.

I live in a 400+ unit condo building in downtown Chicago. We are serviced by USA Wireless. They have upgraded our building to MFH-2 without cost to the HOA.

They now are charging $75/tuner to be upgraded, plus a $50 labor charge.
Here are my ?'s. I appreciate any help you may offer.

1. Are the charges in line with other buildings?
2. How are people dealing with this in terms of breach of contract, failing to maintain System and internal wiring distribution, and they agree to provide access to programming provided by DirecTV.
3. What equipment was installed to upgrade to MFH-2. What are estimated costs/part? I have heard of SWM8 and FMC-6. I found SWM8 online for $400. Is this about right? How much is FMC-6.
4. We have an OTA on the roof of the building. How would this be passed through to the units. Will our access to the OTA change at all? Right now, I have H20 and am not required to subscribe to HD Access to get my OTA channels.
5. What is the wiring structure from the communications closet to the recv'r? Right now, we have a grey box (destacker i think) behind the recvr which splits the signal into a sat signal and an OTA signal.

I know these are alot of questions, but thank you so much. I have read other threads and didn't find these questions discussed.

[ktabel01]

First, as a fellow Chicago resident whose provider is being painfully slow with the MFH-2 upgrade, I'd say you guys are lucky. I can maybe address a couple things. As far as the receiver upgrade, we are responsible for all the upgrade costs of receivers in our building, so $75 is a steal based on the cost of the receivers at present. We never pay for labor as part of our contract, but I would be shocked if that when they finally get to upgrading us, we don't get charged for some sort of upgrade fee.

I do know that as they continually delay our upgrade, our lawyers are looking into possible contract issues, so no good answer there.
The rest of the questions, I know the people on here likely have some answers, but our building isn't upgraded yet so we haven't had to deal with those.

Thank you to so many people on this forum. I have learned alot more through this forum than by calling D* or my SysOp.

I live in a 400+ unit condo building in downtown Chicago. We are serviced by USA Wireless. They have upgraded our building to MFH-2 without cost to the HOA.

They now are charging $75/tuner to be upgraded, plus a $50 labor charge.
Here are my ?'s. I appreciate any help you may offer.

1. Are the charges in line with other buildings?
2. How are people dealing with this in terms of breach of contract, failing to maintain System and internal wiring distribution, and they agree to provide access to programming provided by DirecTV.
3. What equipment was installed to upgrade to MFH-2. What are estimated costs/part? I have heard of SWM8 and FMC-6. I found SWM8 online for $400. Is this about right? How much is FMC-6.
4. We have an OTA on the roof of the building. How would this be passed through to the units. Will our access to the OTA change at all? Right now, I have H20 and am not required to subscribe to HD Access to get my OTA channels.
5. What is the wiring structure from the communications closet to the recv'r? Right now, we have a grey box (destacker i think) behind the recvr which splits the signal into a sat signal and an OTA signal.

I know these are alot of questions, but thank you so much. I have read other threads and didn't find these questions discussed.

[DirecTv Chicago]

All companies with do it a little different. Some companies will absorb the cost of the build out with an extension of the contract, while others will make the building pay a portion of the system installation. But you should expect to pay at least an install fee/dispatch charge of $50.00. That is relatively the norm around the industry.

This is where it gets tricky in the contract regarding failing to mantain the system. By contract a system operator is required to provide the programming available based on the system that is installed at that time. We try our best but are far from able to see the future and what new systems will come.

The MFH2 system is expensive, plain and simple. It is not as easy of an upgrade as many people are trying to make it out to be financially. The biggest issue are the SWM-8 as they only hold 8 channels/tuners. Once that SWM is filled no other receivers will work on it. So it is not unreasonable for USA Wireless to charge you a cost to basically hold your position on the SWM. $75.00 might be a little high but still not unreasonable.

Building demographics play a big part in how your contract will be layed out also. I have some buildings where tenants just want one D12 in their home and that is it. I have other buildings where tenants want 3+ DVRs among other receivers. So basically a System Operator could end up paying twice as much for SWM and Chassies while making relatively the same amount of money from commission.

H20s can still receive the OTA as long as your SO is maintaing the antenna. You also need to realize the OTA in Chicago is a nightmare and I would expect many operators not to continue to maintain these antennas as you would receive the majority of the stations via the 103 satellite.

[Stephen M. Smith]

Dumb question: is it possible for a provider to implement a MFH2 system that does not support SWM?

[Earl Bonovich]

Dumb question: is it possible for a provider to implement a MFH2 system that does not support SWM?

No. MFH-2 is 100% dependent on the SWM-8's (it is at the core of the system)... that is also what makes it very flexible and adaptable from small installations to very large installations.

The other option is MFH-3... which is also not very "cheap"... but it works more on an IP technology over CAT-5 cables... but does require very specific models of the receivers to support it.

[1948GG]

Thank you to so many people on this forum. I have learned alot more through this forum than by calling D* or my SysOp.

I live in a 400+ unit condo building in downtown Chicago. We are serviced by USA Wireless. They have upgraded our building to MFH-2 without cost to the HOA.

They now are charging $75/tuner to be upgraded, plus a $50 labor charge.
Here are my ?'s. I appreciate any help you may offer

Your 'figures' are somewhat in line with 'reality'. I'm involved in doing design and cost analysis on a large number of DirecTV 'plants', although none of them are quite as large as what appears to be a high-rise (how many floors?) of 400+ units.

But, figure that the swm8 is around $300 in bulk, and the fmc6 is a multi-swm8 chassis, fed by multiple feeds from a multiswitch output (in turn connected to a 5LNB dish). There are lots of filter/compensation 'options', to turn the unit into a 'mini-cable' headend. Those familiar with C-Band or even OTA distribution networks for MDU's would find it all very familiar.

Bottom line is that $75 per 'tuner' is a good price. How 'flexible' the engineering is done will figure in. Generally, one figures that the initial figures one gets from the potential subscribers, the layout of the facility, and both the competition (cable) and the salary level of the tenents or owners. At the top of the line, we figure a single SWM8 output for 2 units (so, 4 tuners each), upgradeable to a full SWM7 per unit. At the other end, one SWM8 for 4 units, or 2 tuners each.

Of course, a lot depends on the 'bypass', i.e., the number of units that 'go cable', or even take only the 'free/included' OTA antenna feed. Again, flexibility is the key, put equipment only where needed, and be able to pour more into those particular areas that (for whatever reason) have high rates of subscribers.

Oh, FUN! The companies I work with did LOTS of C-Band installs, back in the day (only about 10-15 years ago), when cable was spotty at best, with 20-30 channels the norm. Things are changing really fast right now, due to HD of course. And cable has a 'natural advantage' with the local channels versus satellite. But we have tons of OTA experience, again going back to those C-Band days.

But we did our homework on the original (and upgrading) installs, where the MFH2 is literally going to be a 'plug and play' deal for virtually all our sites. It sounds like your building is in a good situation, heres to a good outcome!

[PrinceBandar]

Is there some Directv internal deadline for when all the MDU's have to be MFH-2?

[DirecTv Chicago]

Is there some Directv internal deadline for when all the MDU's have to be MFH-2?

Not that I am aware of. What people need to realize is that the MFH2 system is not like going from Windows 98 to XP where new programs will not work on the old system.

All current receivers will work just fine on a Sat101, 3LNB system for years to come. You are upgrading to MFH2 to basically get you the newest HD channels. Would DirecTV prefer every building to switch over to MFH2, of course. Besides revenue they gain from the HD packages it would lock customers in from going to someone like Comcast.

You are still picking up the same satellites for your standard definition on a Sat101 system as you are for a 5LNB MFH2 system. The ability to upgrade your building in a timely manner is dependent on many factors 1.) Your contract with your System Operator, 2.) DirecTV and Distributors ability to keep the cost reasonable to the system operator, and 3.) The supply chain.

[PrinceBandar]

Not that I am aware of. What people need to realize is that the MFH2 system is not like going from Windows 98 to XP where new programs will not work on the old system.

All current receivers will work just fine on a Sat101, 3LNB system for years to come. You are upgrading to MFH2 to basically get you the newest HD channels. Would DirecTV prefer every building to switch over to MFH2, of course. Besides revenue they gain from the HD packages it would lock customers in from going to someone like Comcast.

You are still picking up the same satellites for your standard definition on a Sat101 system as you are for a 5LNB MFH2 system. The ability to upgrade your building in a timely manner is dependent on many factors 1.) Your contract with your System Operator, 2.) DirecTV and Distributors ability to keep the cost reasonable to the system operator, and 3.) The supply chain.
Well that's all true but isn't D going to go to all Mpeg-4 in the next year or so?

[carl6]

Well that's all true but isn't D going to go to all Mpeg-4 in the next year or so?

No, not for SD. All HD and some SD will be mpeg4. But a lot of SD will remain mpeg2 for some time to come.

Existing locals that are on 72.5 will almost certainly convert to mpeg4, but most, if not all, other SD (that which is on 101) should remain mpeg2 for awhile.

Carl

[HD seeker]

No, not for SD. All HD and some SD will be mpeg4. But a lot of SD will remain mpeg2 for some time to come.

Existing locals that are on 72.5 will almost certainly convert to mpeg4, but most, if not all, other SD (that which is on 101) should remain mpeg2 for awhile.

Carl

This will happen faster than you think, if you go this April to Orlando you will get the info