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View Full Version : DISH NETWORK UPGRADE ADVICE


John_E
02-07-03, 11:36 AM
I am a Dish Network subscriber, fairly ignorant to technical details and new to the forum. I've been lurking to try and learn something before proceeding with an upgrade project, either professional done or do-it-yourself. With that in mind I'm seeking plain English advice on how best to proceed weighing both a proper installation and cost.

My current set-up is as follows and hope the description makes some sense:

Ranch style home with steel siding (in satellite cable access area to attic) and a fully finished basement (completely drywalled ceiling and all). My Dish 500 antenna (think it is what you call a dual lnb) is mounted directly on the roof . From what I see it has two RG6 cables going into a switch (sw21?) mounted on the dish itself, and then one RG6 coming from the switch running about 10' through a gable vent and into the attic. This doesn't look too good and is easily visible from my deck and patio.

From there the single RG6, now in the attic, runs a short distance in the attic where it then drops through the ceiling into my garage, straight down the garage wall and then into an opening that leads into the finished basement where it connect directly to my 4000 receiver. Total cable run maybe 50'.

The 4000 receiver connects to a 27" TV via standard RCA cables. There is an off the air antenna with amplifier in the attic with its cable, another RG6, runs down to the 4000 along the same route. This is only used if we have a satellite outage as the picture is still poor - so we get our locals from Dish.

Then we have a third RG6 which goes up from the 4000's rf output along the same route back into the attic where it feeds two more tv's on the first floor, fed of course by rf. These extra cables are fed from the attic fished down walls into standard coax connector wall plates. To us the picture quality upstairs is fairly good considering, however, monaural sound is not acceptable to me (wife's opinion may differ) as Santa brought us a small home theater system for the upstairs family room. This is really where we do the most day to day watching from.

What I want to accomplish:

1. Keep the existing setup for use by all tv's in the house except for the upstairs family room. It is acceptable.

2. Install a second receiver at the upstairs family room location to provide RCA or S-Video connection and supply stereo/Dolby sound, through the A/V receiver to that television.

3. Correct the poor installation of the existing dish 500 antenna, addressing the outside mounted switch and the routing of the cable(s) through the gable vent if feasible. No outside switches would be desirable if cost is not too high. In my opinion the wiring should proceed from the antenna base along the roof (about 6') and run directly through the gable wall into the attic, keeping in mind that steel siding, and under layer of flat cedar siding, and the standard outside wall board must be penetrated and sealed. I'm thinking this would result in a cleaner looking and more secure installation.

Things I'm not sure of:

1. I'll need a new receiver with UHF remote (it will be hidden) and have Dolby sound capability. I'm considering a 508 PVR but am worried about the hard drive noise some have made mention of. Ours is a quiet environment. Is that a concern if the unit is not recording? If just during recording it would not be a problem.

2. With this setup, for regular watching (mostly normal-not premium channels), how should I connect the audio from the new receiver to the A/V receiver. Via RCA and digital or just digital? We do order movies from time to time any would enjoy the enhanced sound from those if it's anything like that of a DVD's Dolby soundtrack.

3. The existing scheme from downstairs would remain in place and be available through the A/V receiver in the rare case we wished to watch different programs OR needed the off-air antenna. Is this OK?

4. Will the 4000 and any newer unit co-exist and if so what parts do I need to make it so. For example what is Dish Pro and would it effect what I'm doing?

5. Would the coming new line of equipment have significant impact on my project? Example: Does a 522 need two cables run to it instead of just one, etc. Haven't really decided on a PVR (we're not really avid tv watchers), however convenience may be worthwhile for regularly watched programs. Also to get a UHF/Dolby combo a used 4900 seems the only alternative

6. A new RG6 and phone line cable must be run from the attic and fished down a wall to rear of family room equipment. Is this something an amateur should tackle? We don't think this home has fire breaks but not sure. I do have a friend to help who is good at carpentry, etc. Neither of us are real knowledgeable about wiring do's and don'ts in this situation. I've contacted two dealers who both are not interested in doing an installation that involves wiring within walls. The third dealer I contacted was a home theater specialist (knew nothing about Dish Network equipment) and was very expensive. Thoughts (or recommendations in the St. Louis area)?

7. The outside Dish antenna situation has several concerns. Should I upgrade either the whole dish or can I do just new lnb's to eliminate the exterior switch? I don't want more than two cables running into the house. Should I compromise and install another switch for the second receiver? I'm really not sure how that all works - there's so many kinds of lnb's (duals-twins-etc) and switches. Don't really have a clue what's best for my situation. Same with outside connectors - don't know what or how to use them if we do this ourselves. Also, what is recommended where penetrating the outer wall. I've seen what is called "feed through bushings" that seem to be the right thing? If so, and assuming two cables are necessary, is a "dual through bushing" appropriate or use two singles? Is there a better way to do this?

I'm quite certain I've forgotten things to ask but hopefully you'll get the general idea of the advice I'm looking for. I'll apologize in advance for the spelling errors and would sure appreciate some of the very competent advice I've seen on this forum to help me make a wise decision before proceeding.

Thanks,
John in STL

Mike123abc
02-07-03, 01:44 PM
Each receiver needs its own RG6 line. Now I bet the installer did not want to drill into the siding so ran a cable down to the vent then came in. You might consider just drilling into the gable at the dish to run the 3 lines into the attic. You will need to upgrade your switch to add the third receiver. A 522 or 721 will require 2 cables in from the dish, a 508 will not.

If you had a short run of the cables into the attic directly into the attic instead of running to the vent, sealed and caulked the entrance then painted the cables the same color as the gable it would probably fade away into the background and not be the eyesore that the 10' of cable is now.

Fishing cable down an interior wall is not hard if you do not have fire block. Fishing down an exterior wall is usually hard because you have insulation and fire block. I have done it successfully in the past and I am no means handy or a professional, just took my time and measured things carefully. "Fish tape" can be picked up at a hardware store can be used to help guide a cable.

The outside dish is a problem, depends on what you have. If you have a twin dish LNB you will have to upgrade the LNB to get 2 outputs from each LNB to feed to a new switch. If you have as I think you describe 2 sw21's you will have to get a new switch, but will not have to upgrade the LNBs. You can also get a dishpro system, but then you will need to buy an adapter for your old boxes.

John_E
02-07-03, 02:22 PM
Thanks Mike - I probably did not describe what I want exactly correct.

I want to end up with only two receivers, the old 4000 to one set and the new (508 maybe) to the other set. Just consider the old 4000 setup to be left as is.

My current Dish 500 antenna is about 2 years old and has two separate LNB's but the LNB housing is not one continuous piece. There is only one switch there feeding one receiver. Think it was one of the first generation of Dish 500. I'll forget the 522 for now if I must have three cables coming into the house.

I'll consider your approach through the gable, I was concerned about the steel siding against the cable insulation being harmful.

Thanks again,
John in STL

BobaBird
02-08-03, 04:27 AM
1. Most 508s are quiet. It certainly won't be an issue with the unit hidden.

2. Just digital should be sufficient unless you need an analog line output for dubbing. See Dolby Digital at the EKB (http://ekb.dbstalk.com/236).

3. Sure.

4. The receivers don't interact. You need to add another SW21 output from your dish for the 2nd receiver.

4b. Converting to DishPro will reduce the number of wires coming off the dish and let you have only 2 wires coming inside. A DP34 switch can be installed inside if you add a dual-tuner receiver. You will have to purchase a DishPro adapter for your 4000 if you go this route.

John_E
02-08-03, 06:49 AM
Thanks for the info Charles. The link you provided helped clarify the sound questions, although I don't know what PCM is.

John

scooper
02-08-03, 08:04 AM
PCM = Pulse Coded Modulation. When there isn't Dolby Digital coming out, it reverts to PCM (that will still have Dolby Surround encoded in it).

Don't go the Dishpro route unless you are going to replace your 4000 with a 301.

John_E
02-09-03, 10:38 AM
Thanks for the answer, Scooper. Is PCM different from MTS or does it matter?

About the DishPro - when we run a new RG6 into the house, must it be of a certain type for DishPro (for future upgrade) vs. legacy equipment and what exactly does DishPro do/mean?

Thanks,
John

scooper
02-09-03, 12:30 PM
PCM gets converted to analog MTS by your A/V receiver.

DishPro RG6 - From what I have heard, there is a minimum grade of RG6 cable that is necessary - it needs to be tested out to 2.2GHz +.

DishPro - traditional LNB's output their signals on 950 MHz - 1450 MHz, using voltage to change the LNB from RHCP to LHCP. DishPro converts one of those polarities up to 1.5GHz - 2.2GHz, otherwise known as stacking them. You could use Dishpro on your 4000, but it would require a $70 adapter to use.