Earthlink offers half-price discount...

[James_F]

http://rss.com.com/2100-1023-983839.html?type=pt&part=rss&tag=feed&subj=news

Maybe they'll be having a "going out of business" sale soon. Not a good time to be in the ISP only business....

AOL loses 100 Billion (http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2135874)

[MikeW]

I can see AOL subscribership dropping aT an even more accelerated rate over the next 18 months. I was one of the fools who signed up for the $400 rebate w/a 3 year sub to Compuserve. I was switched from CS to AOL last year. I have until March '04 to complete my contract. In March, it will cost $200 to end the contract early ($300 right now) which would net me a savings of only $42 and no use of AOL. Once the contract is up, I'm done.

[gcutler]

But aren't there enough people (like my brother) who are sooo dependant on the AOL babysteps that they will never give it up unless forced? I passed a used machine to a relative and my brother even signed up those relatives for AOL.

[Steve Mehs]

AOL, I can't say enough negative things about them, I have never hated any program as much as that program. I still remember using version 2.0. AOL grew fast because of their 'ease of use' and being on the desktop of every computer shipped. AOL was nothing more then a big fad and they are partly responsible for turning the internet into what it is today. (not that that's a bad thing)

[James_F]

Whether or not its easy to use, if they no one can make money selling dial-up where will that leave millions of Americans?

[Steve Mehs]

I don't think dial up will ever go compltly out. I just had my first experience using RoadRunner, and OMG, it is in no way worth $60/month IMO. I was using it about 2 hours ago at someone's house and geeze while surfing it was maybe only 1 1/2 times faster then my Earthlink dial up, I didn't get the chance to hop on Kazaa and max out the bandwidth but from what I've seen of RoadRunner in my area I'm perfectly happy with my modem. The person was saying how dissatified they are with the speeds, but between the no more second phone line and no AOL, plus a TW digital cable discount, they are actualy coming out a head in the price.

[James_F]

That too bad... I pay $34 a month for Cox.net. Why would I pay $24 to have dial-up?

I'm not saying Dial-up will go away. What is going to happen is that the cost will go up and providers will go out of business. People don' t like paying $40 for broadband because they pay about half for dialup. What about when the cost gets closer?

[Steve Mehs]

Is it $34 bucks straight up or are there discounts involved? That is a great price! I really wish satellite broadband was more affortable.

[dtcarson]

FWIW: Steve, if you were only getting 1.5x dialup speeds at your friends house, either something was set up wrong, or RR just sucks in that area [or maybe the destination site was slow, etc.]
I've had RR for about 1.5 years now, and I couldn't go back to dialup. I left Mindspring just before they merged with Earthlink.
For many people, dialup is enough, or all they can get, so I don't think dialup is going away either. If people travel from their home, they would need dialup while 'on the road.'
I think the dialup market will become more segmented--people who don't much about computers will go to AOL because they believe the misleading commercials, and people who know a little will look for the local ISPs, which usually offer better prices and/or service.
I currently pay 45/month for RR, it's shared on two computers, and when I had dialup, I did have a second phone line, so that right there was about 40 bucks. Sharing the connection, the always-on convenience, and of course the higher speeds are my main benefits. But again, in part it's a preference thing, and I use the net for a lot of things other people have other sources for.

[Steve Mehs]

A few Other people I've talked to said RR is definitely a step up from what they had with 56K but when compared with other broadband from other parts of the country RR here is slower. I have used Adelphia Power Link in the neighboring town to the west and they were blazing fast. I'm going back Tuesday to help them install a CD burner, I'll see how the speeds are then, and I'll see how long it takes to download a MP3. I treat my modem as an always on connections at times. I average about 300 (max was 334) hours online per month. But them my mom gets pissed since the phones tied up. :(

[James_F]

Originally posted by Steve Mehs
Is it $34 bucks straight up or are there discounts involved? That is a great price! I really wish satellite broadband was more affortable.

Well actually I do have Cox for my telephone service, but even that is cheaper than Qwest... I have cable for internet and telephone, but not TV. :lol:

[jeffwtux]

James, yor are not the minority. If everybody had cable deals as good as your city, then DBS and DSL would be dead. The reason this site exists is because not everybody has cable deals that good. Does anybody have a dish in your city?

[James_F]

Everyone around me has a dish. I moved into an area that Cox didn't offer cable. If they had, I'd most likely have it. I've invested money in HD and DirecTiVos so I don't want to throw that away. BUT, Cox does offer a discount if you have at least 2 of their services. I have Telephone and High Speed Internet. If Cox offered a PVR in addition to their HD offerings AND gave me the equipment for free, I might move. The only thing I'd give up is NFL ST, but I really watch MLB EI more anyway... :shrug:

[raj2001]

Originally posted by gcutler
But aren't there enough people (like my brother) who are sooo dependant on the AOL babysteps that they will never give it up unless forced? I passed a used machine to a relative and my brother even signed up those relatives for AOL.

I'm trying very hard to get my mom off AOL. SHe was using the 6 months I got free with my DELL (which ended up being 8 months free thanks to customer retention at AOL). I really felt sorry for her after she dialed up on my dialup Earthlink account and said "I'm connected. Now how do you go to the internet"?

[raj2001]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
James, yor are not the minority. If everybody had cable deals as good as your city, then DBS and DSL would be dead. The reason this site exists is because not everybody has cable deals that good. Does anybody have a dish in your city?

Here in NYC if you get RR from Time Warner cable, you pay something like $60/month if you're not a cable subscriber. But if you choose another ISP on the Time Warner network (like Earthlink Cable or New York Connect) you pay the same as a cable TV sub.

[Geronimo]

CXox does that where I am as well---though no phone service.

Internet alone is $49.99 with no fees. If you have the lowest tier of cable at $12.83 plus $1.13 in fees ($13.96). You can sub to cable internet for $34.95.

You do the math.

[Gemini365i]

Originally posted by raj2001


I'm trying very hard to get my mom off AOL. SHe was using the 6 months I got free with my DELL (which ended up being 8 months free thanks to customer retention at AOL). I really felt sorry for her after she dialed up on my dialup Earthlink account and said "I'm connected. Now how do you go to the internet"?

See..that's bad! AOL doesn't teach you what to do on your own. People that use AOL are usually new to the internet or know no other. The AOL way, is baby steps, and hand holding. Everything is in 1 neat package, and that's  OK!

But, I feel that once you've graduated from the baby steps, you should move on to thenext level and learn to do things on your own. I was in college like a year ago, and this guy said he did not know how to use a search engine. I asked him what ISP he has, and he said AOL. he didn't even know what IE was.

 

I used AOL 2.5/3.0 back in 1998 and that was the BEST version ever. If you wanna cancel AOL, ain't gonna happen. They will give you free months until your contract s up, to keep you from canceling.

As for Dialup vs Broadband, I WOULD NEVER go back willingly to dialup. I've had all the major dialups..... AOL, EarthLink, MindSpring, AT&T, NetZero, Juno... you name it, I've tried it. The speed of dial up in no WAY comparea to my DSL. trust me, if anyone has used DSL or CABLE, they know what I am talking about, and there is no way we would ever go back to dialup.

Right now I'm using EarthLink DSL for about 2.5 years and I get 1.5/384 service and it's nice n fast for me. I've been on it so long that when I switch down to dialup, if the signal goes out, it's like ancient times...waiting.....waiting.......waiting....waiti ng, got the pages to load and downloads to complete. With my DSL OH MAN there is NO WAITING. :cool:

I would like to try OOL here, but it's not in my area yet. As always TWC has the best TV service compared to CV. But OOL knocks RR and DSL and any other Cable Internet service off the meter.

I'm fairly happy with my $50.00 dsl service. it's well worth more than 23.95 for AOL dialup....lol

 

JE

[Mark Holtz]

Just as a minor plug (posted with permission of the admins)....

The company I work for is a Sacramento-based ISP (locally owned and operated) with dial-ups across the state of California. Our rates for dial-up service is $9.95 per month for a 30 hour per calender month access and $17.95 for unmetered (unlimited) access, 10 MB of disk space, and e-mail accounts "for the entire family". We have no setup fee, and are currently running a special that gives you 50% off six months of service.

As for tech support, it's 8 AM-8 PM M-F, and 9 AM-6 PM Saturdays and Sundays. We spend the time with our customers, and do answer the support mail.

Now, I know that many of you have broadband access, and that's fine. Maybe you have friends or relatives who are living in California who might be interested. Just PM me a message, and I'll e-mail you the web site and phone numbers.

[gcutler]

Originally posted by Gemini365i


See..that's bad! AOL doesn't teach you what to do on your own. People that use AOL are usually new to the internet or know no other. The AOL way, is baby steps, and hand holding. Everything is in 1 neat package, and that's  OK!

But, I feel that once you've graduated from the baby steps, you should move on to thenext level and learn to do things on your own. I was in college like a year ago, and this guy said he did not know how to use a search engine. I asked him what ISP he has, and he said AOL. he didn't even know what IE was.


But thats part of the problem, some people never get weined off of AOL. My bother is an AOL sub for many years and is probably like the person you mentioned. I think At&T offered some special cable modem deal but he never jumped till he was able to get AOL Broadband.

And every parent of anyone I know seems to have AOL and either tooo lazy or scared.

Most of the discssion here is based on "Rational Thought", but when trying to convince an AOL user to switch over, you transgress into "Irrational Thought" and logic dosen't work

That is why I think even with AOL losing tons of money, there are enough irrational people around who would rather "Nurse @ the Teat of AOL" then get a better/faster deal from the baby bell or cable company. And probably enough to keep them from going under. Where as with Earthlink, most of the subs have been weined off the baby steps and will switch over when price/speed is advantageous with a competitor.

[James_F]

Well as the price of AOL goes up, more people will either upgrade to broadband or just drop the service completely. If I'm just checking me email once a week, I don't think $30 a month would be worth it. The problem with earthlink is if they can make money off of broadband. They pay big bucks to be included on TW cable systems and while that might work out as break-even, I don't think break-even is sustainable in this market. DSL gives them a wider pricing structure, but they are beholden to the baby bells who cheat and steal their customers left and right.

[gcutler]

Originally posted by James_F
Well as the price of AOL goes up, more people will either upgrade to broadband or just drop the service completely.

But you are thinking rationally. The Average AOL sub is not so rational. At what price will the irrational AOL sub jump? I don't know. But if anyone can be fooled into some stupid feature that is "worth" the AOL price increase, it is the average AOL sub.

For several AOL subs, I've used these arguments (I intentionally left out the price difference of today, made it sound like the price was the same just to "balance" the argument)...

1) You don't use up your phone line or need a 2nd phone line with Cable or DSL

2) You can increase your speed by 2x-10x the speed

etc, etc, etc, etc.

The response is, "But what about my AOL" :bang
or I don't want to change my e-mail address, etc. INTERTIA has alot to do with "Irrational" descision making.

I think once the price is equal for Dialup-AOL and Broadband many-many will jump but not as many as you think.

[gcutler]

Perhaps TW decides to sell of AOL at a BIG LOSS, but just to get its stock price back to "Rational", the last Mega-Mergered cable company buys AOL and forces the last irrational ppeople to cable modem?

[James_F]

Originally posted by gcutler


But you are thinking rationally.
Yea I know, it my only fault. :D
The Average AOL sub is not so rational. At what price will the irrational AOL sub jump? I don't know. But if anyone can be fooled into some stupid feature that is "worth" the AOL price increase, it is the average AOL sub.
Don't discount price. AOL look cheap when you compare it to a $40-$60 broadband bill. I agree jumping from dialup to dialup, but when its from dialup to broadband, thats different.


For several AOL subs, I've used these arguments (I intentionally left out the price difference of today, made it sound like the price was the same just to "balance" the argument)...

1) You don't use up your phone line or need a 2nd phone line with Cable or DSL

2) You can increase your speed by 2x-10x the speed

etc, etc, etc, etc.

The response is, "But what about my AOL" :bang
or I don't want to change my e-mail address, etc. INTERTIA has alot to do with "Irrational" descision making.

I think once the price is equal for Dialup-AOL and Broadband many-many will jump but not as many as you think.


I don't know, People are people so why should it be that they won't move if the price is right?

Did I just type a Depeche Mode song (http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/peoplear.htm) right there?

[gcutler]

Originally posted by James_F
Did I just type a Depeche Mode song (http://www.spydersempire.com/depeche/people.htm) right there?

Maybe it was a Wham/George Michaels song? Gee, that dosen't make you feel better :p

[raj2001]

Originally posted by James_F

Did I just type a Depeche Mode song (http://www.spydersempire.com/depeche/people.htm) right there?

UGH!

That link brought popups and a prompt to install Gator.

[James_F]

It seems to do that from time to time. Sorry about that, I'll edit the link. Just picked the first one I found in Google.

And people think Gator is good for them. :bang

[Steve Mehs]

I'm using RR, it's a bit faster this afternoon then firday. I guess people must still be at work. Duh! :)

[James_F]

Sure Steve, rub it in...

[Steve Mehs]

lol, Sorry James :)

One of the maintance guys at school has a Dell running WIN98SE that has an 8GB HD that was nearly filled to the max. (I'm talking less then 20MB left). I went trough got rid of a lot of crap, including Gator. Ad-Aware Plus found 157 suspecious files. Also had to hook up a scanner and CD burner. Did the spring cleaning Friday, scanner today, and I'll have to do the CD burner sometime in the future. While he was out getting an extra USB cable for the hub, I was playing with RoadRunner.

[MarkB49]

I dropped AOL 3 years ago.
Put in a hardware modem had netzero free.
Then i found Hawkcommunications.com as my ISP.
For 6.95/m it can't be beat.
It's a small Atlanta company.I also put in 128 & 256 sticks of SDRAM so i'm getting around pretty good on the net.

Mark

[James_F]

Yea, but do you think they will be around in 2 years? I've been though so many ISPs I've lost count. Baby Bells,and Cable Companies will be the only ISPs within 5 years. You'll have some "resellers" like you do with long distance phone service, but the majority will be though the companies who provide the wire.

[raj2001]

Here's a website:

http://www.earthlinksucks.net

[gcutler]

We've all seen that site. Dosen't mean anything except they have disguntled customers, Just Like Microsoft, Dishnetwork, or United HealthCare or etc. And the bigger the company the larger the customer base, the larger the # of disgruntled customers.

While I agree with James_F statement for the most part, a disgruntled website does not prove James' belief or indicate future viability or profitability or anything other than disgruntled customers who are willing to post on a web site.

here are some links...
http://www.microsoftsucks.com/
http://www.tedsturnovers.com/ (Turner/Time-Warner Business sucks site, guy took down site after 9/11 to show deviseness was a thing to stop)
http://www.gapsucks.org/ (Even The GAP has its detractors)

Don't think these companies are going away in the long term let alone the short term.

[raj2001]

I'm an EL DSL customer, and I can tell you that if I did business the way they did, I would be out of business already. Imagine waiting on hold for an hour (or more) consistently each time you call for tech support. You call sales? You get an answer almost instantly!!

They have also mis-billed and over-billed me three times within the last two months. This was before service was even activated! I call billing support, it's over an hour on hold. Live chat? An hour on hold. When you finally get a representative on the line they are rude and discourteous. They recently closed their call centers in the US and are moving the tech support overseas (to India) so now customer service will go further and further down the drain.

Furthermore they deceive customers about the DSL speed which you get. They tell you that you will get 1500/128, but then put in fine print that you will get 768/128 in some areas. It's only after you order and connect that you realize that there are many areas in which you get 768/128 and not 1500/128.

I called customer service and they lied and told me that they do not cap the line, when in fact it is capped. They told me I was getting 768 because of the quality of my line and other miscellaneous factors. That's a downright lie because I had 1500/128 from Verizon on the same line, and speed tests on the line always put me in the 1400-1600 range (download, including estimated TCP transfer overhead) and the 115-130 range (up). I am less than 6000 feet from the CO.

The conclusion I came to was that to cut costs they only buy 768kbps from the telco and resell it to customers as 1500kbps with the fine print that it's 768 in some areas due to "technical limitations" (my foot).

The worst part is that you can't even cancel until a year is up or eat the $150 cancellation fee, so I am now stuck with a year of crappy 768k DSL service.

[gcutler]

Originally posted by raj2001
I'm an EL DSL customer, and I can tell you that if I did business the way they did, I would be out of business already. Imagine waiting on hold for an hour (or more) consistently each time you call for tech support. You call sales? You get an answer almost instantly!!...

Your experience with EL is no different than alot of experiences here with Dishnetwork.

Your bad experience does not prove the company is going out of business.

If every company that mistreated a percentage of its customers were out of business, EVERY cable company would be out of business, Dish network would be out of business, most insurance companies would be out of business, MICROSOFT would be out of business...

You have valid anger at EL, but don't believe for one minute that just because you are angry at them and many are angry at them that it will have as much as impact as you think. They may have shutdown a call center, and it may cost them customers, but there was probably some MBA who figured out how much it would save vs how much it would cost in customers dropping service and they probably are aware of everything. The only time there will be a problem is if they lose many more subs than the MBA predicted. My friends have gone thru the same experience with AT&T cable modem as you went with via EL.

THe only time EL will truly suffer is as when James_F predicts the Cable Companies and/or Baby Bells start charging alot less where the Middleman EL cannot compete price wise. But I doubt that the cable company or baby bells will have superior customer service to EL before or after that occurs and will probably play little or no part in the economics of the time.

Originally posted by raj2001
The conclusion I came to was that to cut costs they only buy 768kbps from the telco and resell it to customers as 1500kbps with the fine print that it's 768 in some areas due to "technical limitations" (my foot).

The worst part is that you can't even cancel until a year is up or eat the $150 cancellation fee, so I am now stuck with a year of crappy 768k DSL service.

As to your Speed issue, when I opened up my account, I had the same issues you had but I read the agreement fully (including the fine print) it was your fault you didn't read it. When I started out with DSL I was connecting at 1/2 the rate you mentioned then one day after some line maintenance I was connecting at twice your speed. I doubt that had anything to do with EL, and had everything to do with the phone company adding/upgrading their equipment in my area. Could it also be that Verizon is capping the line to EL so they are less competitive than Verizion? Unless you are sure about the corporate politics don't be so sure about anything. You conclusion is as good or bad as any conclusion out there, but it isn't the only one.

[James_F]

Look, I hope Earthlink/AOL/MSN/NetZero/Juno/AT&T Worldnet and other survive. I believe that keeps the cost down for everyone. I just don't see a good business plan from any of these...

[gcutler]

Originally posted by James_F
Look, I hope Earthlink/AOL/MSN/NetZero/Juno/AT&T Worldnet and other survive. I believe that keeps the cost down for everyone. I just don't see a good business plan from any of these...

Agreed, I'm just trying to say to Raj2001 that good or bad customer service will not play any part in this and the "Business Model" will be the factor that determines which companies survive. And almost guaranteed, the only surviving companies will reach new lows in bad customer service.

[James_F]

True, if PSINet is any idicator we should be in for some big fun!

[Bogy]

In Omaha at least you can get your AOL (if you are one of those who just can't live without it) and bundled together with a Cox connection. I personally can't see why anyone would want to, but you can. I pay about the same price as James, since I also get my phone, (local & long distance), and digital tv from them. As part of the bundle, I get one premium movie tier free. I am anxiously awaiting that day when they will finally roll out their PVR's.

I would never willingly go back to dial-up. Surfing the net may be only marginally fast (but sometimes its a big margin). But downloads are incredibly faster. I still have a dial-up connection at my office, and just simple things like downloading the updates for my virus scanner or Windows updates are painful there. The virus update yesterday was about a 2meg. file, which took about a minute at home, and 25 minutes at work. Yep, the extra $10 bucks is worth it. :D

[Steve Mehs]

WoW! I was at that persons house again to install the CD burner. I had to put it off a few weeks due to conflicting schedules. I showed them the magical world of Kazaa Lite. Speeds averaged 80kbps and up to 100. While surfing wasn't that much faster downloading files is. I got them the newly released Linkin Park song and it took less then 30 sec to download.