Rural customers should pay!!

[Annihilator31]

In thinking about those customers who live in deep fringe or rural areas, I pose this question. Should the customer (based on location) pay extra (a fee) for installation or should Directv pay extra to the technician, or none of the above? I ask because us tech's who work in rural areas sometimes have to drive 3+ hours to get to one customers house and the expense of fuel these days make those jobs not even worth doing. At the moment we do NOT get compensated in any way for making the long trip to provide service.

[carl6]

Gas is only going to continue to rise. If it were me, I would be looking for other employment opportunities. The last time I had to drive a truck, it was a company owned and maintained vehicle and they paid for the gas. I wouldn't do it any other way personally.

Carl

[tcusta00]

Do you have a choice to turn down those jobs? 3 hours is a bit much each way. I kinda like carl's suggestion even if it's kinda harsh.

[Annihilator31]

Do you have a choice to turn down those jobs? 3 hours is a bit much each way. I kinda like carl's suggestion even if it's kinda harsh.

As tech's, we don't have the option to turn the job's down. In fact, if we don't make it to these jobs on time or on the sceduled day we get hit with a $100 customer satisfation fine.

[tcusta00]

That's too bad. If that's the job though...

[Annihilator31]

Gas is only going to continue to rise. If it were me, I would be looking for other employment opportunities. The last time I had to drive a truck, it was a company owned and maintained vehicle and they paid for the gas. I wouldn't do it any other way personally.

Carl
Thats part of the problem. Many techs have quit and now it's left to the ones who still do this job to pick up the slack weather we want to or not. Another point I'd like to make is that the more time we spend driving from job to job the more money we lose becuse that time could have been spent doing another job. Guys who work in the city can do X amount of jobs and drive minimal miles while rural tech are limited to only Y amount of jobs and drive mega miles at our own expense.

[loungeofmusic]

I use to work in IT and know exactly what you're talking about. I stopped taking jobs that were too far away from home base. It's tough to pass these charges onto the customer so really I think it would be prudent of D* to compensate you for such jobs. Unfortunately I think situations like these make techs feel a little disenfranchised and this ultimately results in, I think, less care over the work. You just think of getting to the next job as quick as possible. That's not a bad ethic, it's human nature. Of course I quit IT! :lol:

[Dwrecked]

I think that it would be more appropriate if the company reached into their pocket and paid installers more for these long distance jobs.

[Dwrecked]

Customer satisfaction fine? What kind of BS is that? Can you elaborate?

[Annihilator31]

You'd think that maybe some of these rich farmers would Tip, but they don't. I got more tips working one week in West Palm Beach Florida than I did in six months of working in ND. I'm not complaining, I'm just making a point. I'm gonna do my best weather I get a tip or not as I never expect one.

[Annihilator31]

Customer satisfaction fine? What kind of BS is that? Can you elaborate? It's something Directv imposes. It's often called the "On Time Guarantee" or "No Call No Show" fine. :nono:

[Upstream]

I live in New Jersey, and hardly in the middle of nowhere. But when I had my R15 installed, the installer came from Brooklyn, NY, which is at least 35 to 45 miles away (depending on where in Brooklyn he came from). But with New York City traffic, the trip could have easily taken over 2 hours. (Of course, once they got out here in NJ, they could have done a half dozen installs within a two mile radius.)

I don't know if the answer is to charge customers more based on where they live, since the customers have no control over where the techs come from (I would have never guessed my tech would come from Brooklyn). But I do think that DirecTV, should compensate installers for time and distance.

[SDizzle]

You should have a company gas card if you work for a company, or get paid mileage by D* if you're an independent installer.

[CoramDeo]

This is why I, as a rural customer, install my own equipment. I know it's done right, and a technician doesn't have to waste their or my time.

[ironwood]

Quit your job? Thats a bad solution to a problem. Why dont you tell 100,000 GM employees to quit their job if they dont like it instead of going on strike. Its not that simple. You cant just quit. Especially in rural areas. Jobs are scarce and disappearing. People are settled and cant jump up in the air, quit a job, pick up 5 kids, sell the house, move across the border to another state, buy a house, start a new job, wait 3 month to get a new medical insurance.

This company cares a lot about customers thats why its number one in customer satisfaction. But it doesnt see us techs as its customers. Turnover rates are 90% within first year.

As to rural customers its up to Directv to decide. It can charge those customers or it can disperse cost among its 15 million customer base. Right now techs are paying for those remote customers out of their pocket. Its a shame.

[memory]

In thinking about those customers who live in deep fringe or rural areas, I pose this question. Should the customer (based on location) pay extra (a fee) for installation or should Directv pay extra to the technician, or none of the above? I ask because us tech's who work in rural areas sometimes have to drive 3+ hours to get to one customers house and the expense of fuel these days make those jobs not even worth doing. At the moment we do NOT get compensated in any way for making the long trip to provide service.

Some how as techs we are gonn ahave to stand up to D* and the install comapnies and say hey we are tired of it and we DEMAND to be compensated for our time and drive. NOT a easy thing to do but until we do they will keep running over us time and time and time again

[Annihilator31]

Some how as techs we are gonn ahave to stand up to D* and the install comapnies and say hey we are tired of it and we DEMAND to be compensated for our time and drive. NOT a easy thing to do but until we do they will keep running over us time and time and time again You are so right. The problem is, this doesn't affect most Directv techs. Most techs work in populated areas and fuel cost with mileage isn't really an issue.

[ironwood]

Its called Union.

[joe diamond]

The rural question is a good one.

As the money dropped I just stopped taking work. The fulfillment companies are largely gone. The people that were doing this work won't work for the HSPs, as a generalization.

I just got in from a driving job. After ten hours on the road I just turned in my paperwork and went home. Instead of........... "...you gotta take the good with the bad!."......and...."yer eatin ain't ya?" which translate "we are going to route you all over the planet" ...and..." so what is your check is incorrect this week, some of them didn't clear the bank".......I got some sales commissions

In other industries you hit a time clock & do your tasks. The employer makes enough money to pay everybody and get a little rich himself for being the risk taker.

Anyhow, some body should pay for road expenses. Since nobody will that is also who will ride around rural areas and eat the costs; nobody. DTV, like the cable companies, makes plenty on suburbia. That could be the hint, rural America.

Joe

[or270]

I asked my tech about this awhile ago, He works for Ironwood Comm, then have to drive 1 1/2 hours from there office to my place, They have a company van that says Directv on it, the company pays for gas and they get a hourly wage for driving on long distance calls.

[Racer88]

You should have a company gas card if you work for a company, or get paid mileage by D* if you're an independent installer.

Exactly.......

No way in hell should a rural customer be burdened with this cost. This whole industry and delivery system was created for exactly those customers.

If DirecTV and Dish want to require that THEIR systems be installed by THEIR contractors then THEY need to compensate them accordingly.

[bridge]

You should get a mileage reimbursement from DTV. Someone needs to renegotiate your company's contract with them. I do clinical research for NASA and generally get about $500 quarter for driving between Johnson Space Center and University of Texas Medical Branch (over 60 miles round trip). Current gov't rate is 50.5 cents/mile. I think most companies and contractors use the gov't rate as a baseline for what is considered fair reimbursement. At today's gas prices and $4/gallon gas in the near future DTV will have to take care of you guys if they want to keep their new customer numbers up. Passing the cost on the customer is not an option in a recession. Luxury funds are drying up.

[harsh]

No way in hell should a rural customer be burdened with this cost. This whole industry and delivery system was created for exactly those customers.This is not the case. C-Band was designed for rural customers and those installations were typically in the hundreds of dollars. If it takes hours to get to a customer, that's the customer's problem, not the installer.

DIRECTV and DISH Network have figured on an average install time and it is much less than half a day. In metropolitan areas, they charge the same amount as they do in rural areas.

If you're willing to agree to higher startup costs and longer commitments, you can start a campaign to raise everyone's costs and see how many jump on board with you.

Living in East Jesus is a conscious decision and it comes with pros and cons. Having those huddled in apartments in New York City pay for the pleasure of a few doesn't seem fair.

[chdoud]

Exactly.......

No way in hell should a rural customer be burdened with this cost. This whole industry and delivery system was created for exactly those customers.

If DirecTV and Dish want to require that THEIR systems be installed by THEIR contractors then THEY need to compensate them accordingly.

I agree.... As a rural customer I already pay more for many things. DSL (last person on the leg) $60 a month. No chioce but Diretcv (I have been a customer since 1995). No OTA only NBC.....

I am retired and live comfortably but modestly. Hell I saved some money when I worked so I could live where I want.

[Racer88]

This is not the case....<snip>


Whatever dude...

Like I said the 18" satellite dish system(your beloved Dish Network included) was designed and brought to market from the ground up as a way for people not in areas serviced by CATV to be able to access the same CATV "type" programming easily and by their own hand. This is a FACT. I've followed the evolution of this system since it was just a gleem in it's creators' eyes.

The increased complexity of installing the current iteration of the system equipment has been brought on by necessity by DirecTV and Dish in comibination with the FCC. They're the ones that evolved the system away from "self-install" simplicity and now they need to foot the bill for their increased complexities and pay the people making these long road trips accordingly. Plain and simple.

[Annihilator31]

Exactly.......

No way in hell should a rural customer be burdened with this cost. This whole industry and delivery system was created for exactly those customers.

If DirecTV and Dish want to require that THEIR systems be installed by THEIR contractors then THEY need to compensate them accordingly. Personaly I think that the rural customers should be the ones to pay. They do have the choice of were they live and often times living in a rural area is far cheaper than living in the city. I don't expect that directv or the install companies with raise thier payout ever. In fact it's more likely to decrease in time. I love my job and thats why I continue to do it, but there is going to come a day when it won't make any sense to even do the job, if things don't change. Let me pose this question. What if you ordered directv, and the next day someone from directv called you and said, "I'm sorry we can't take care of you because there is no one even remotely close to were you live who can do the installation." Would that customer then be willing to pay extra to get the job done? If they want it bad enough. I think a fair price to compensate for the additional time and gas would be $100. MOST other companies who have to drive outside thier particular circle Do charge the customer extra. Why doesn't directv. It wasn't that many years ago when people thought that Getting a two room install for $99 was an awesome deal.

[brucegrr]

I live in rural NW Ohio. We are always in the percentage of the US that is not served.

One phone company-Verizon (no fios)
One Cable company-Time Warner

No competition, and the prices we are charged and the services we are offered reflect that.

It is about numbers. 36,000 people live in our WHOLE county. Town I live in? 325 people. We DO have a traffic light :)

Until recently, the directv installer for this area came from 90 miles away. There is a company doing installs now that i about 10 miles away, but they are having trouble finding installers. They run a perpetual help wanted ad in the local paper.

Of course there are a lot of advantages of living in the country. No traffic congestion. Little crime. Neighbors who know each other.

Enjoy the scenery and gripe about the lack of services. All from your front porch........


Bruce

[Annihilator31]

Directv is a Luxury and as such, if you want it, you pay for it. Right? In these rural areas there is no competition and phone/cable companies charge for installation no matter where you live.

[ycebar]

I think D should pay the extra cost, and alot of people who live in rural areas espicially in ND are farmers, o for their profession they dont really have a choice to where they live

[Steve Mehs]

In these rural areas there is no competition and phone/cable companies charge for installation no matter where you live.

I never paid a cent for my cable broadband or digital cable install. My D* install was free as well. I live in a pretty rural area, but not so rural that I'm in the middle of the woods. We have plenty of cows, 1.5 traffic lights (1 at the very edge of town and a 4 way blink by the 'town square'), 1 gas station and an old time general store, we also have cable service that provides us with some of the fastest residential internet access in the country, and soon to be 35 HD channels. Life’s not so bad in the country and I would never live in an urban or even suburban area.

Depending on how busy they are, some of the Time Warner techs that come out to this area are dispatched from the franchises main office an hour and a half away.

[cweave02]

It's something Directv imposes. It's often called the "On Time Guarantee" or "No Call No Show" fine. :nono:

Does it get passed back to the customer, or kept by D* as a penalty?

[HDTVsportsfan]

Is there an arguement here anywhere for the self install again, for those that want to?

[brucegrr]

In our area the Verizon and Time Warner techs are super. One reason is that we all know where they live :) and shop in the same stores they do.

I have dsl with Verizon. 3mb/768-29.95 a month I used to have Time Warner 15mb/512-55.95 a month.

Time Warner charges 4.95 for cable install.

Time Warner's HD offerings here are terrible. Locals and a half dozen more channels. they also have a package with a few mor channels they charge 5.99 a month for. We are in a former Adelphia area that has not been converted completely over to Time Warner so, according to Time Warner that is why we have so few HD choices.

Once of the problems here in Ohio was that every community was its own franchising authority. Your cable package may vary from th next town over even though it is the same company.

The Ohio legislature recently changed the law and did away with local franchising authority. It is now done on a statewide level. The theory is.........better service to more harder to reach areas. (ie. if FIOS was available here it would change the lay of the land greatly.)

Our area still has a large number of dialup customers. My son is a tech for a wireless company in the area. They offer a 1mb/512k connection for around 40.00 a month. While not fast.........it sure beats dialup. Their service is growing rapidly.

One poster mentioned we choose to live in rural America. That is true and he is quite right about the cost differences. Housing, taxes and groceries are much cheaper. We tend to spend more on gas because the closest big cities are Toledo or Fort Wayne both 50 plus miles away.

Bruce

[Annihilator31]

Does it get passed back to the customer, or kept by D* as a penalty?
The customer ultimatly gets it.

[Dirac]

Is there an arguement here anywhere for the self install again, for those that want to?

You can still self-install. I've done it 3 times now, most recently last month. Receivers from Circuit City, dish from Solid Signal, no worries. Maybe that's the solution... it's no more difficult than putting in a bird feeder and adding a phone jack.

[HDTVsportsfan]

You can still self-install. I've done it 3 times now, most recently last month. Receivers from Circuit City, dish from Solid Signal, no worries. Maybe that's the solution... it's no more difficult than putting in a bird feeder and adding a phone jack.

Well, that's true. I should have been more clear. You can only self installif you purchase your equipment from DirecTV dealers. I meant for DirecTV providing the equipment. But obvoiusly that opens up a whole 'nother set of issues.
If the owner can't install it properly for whatever reason....it could just be frustrating and ugly.

[Annihilator31]

Is there an arguement here anywhere for the self install again, for those that want to?
Most customer can NOT do a proper self instal unless it's just a standard 18" dish, and even then without the right parts and tools... Even if a person does do a self install, he's still going to have to go and buy the install parts at thier expense.

[slimline]

Most customer can NOT do a proper self instal unless it's just a standard 18" dish, and even then without the right parts and tools... Even if a person does do a self install, he's still going to have to go and buy the install parts at thier expense.

an an msp owner we go 50miles max for fufilment..,,,,,,

[Annihilator31]

an an msp owner we go 50miles max for fufilment..,,,,,,
I have my own contract with the local HSP. Wish I had that option.

[jlancaster]

Directv is a Luxury and as such, if you want it, you pay for it. Right? In these rural areas there is no competition and phone/cable companies charge for installation no matter where you live.
But its only a luxury for those in rural areas right (they should pay more). This service started out being targeted to those who had the least number of options. Don't blame the customer for what your (hsp or sub) is doing to you. Take that up with them and stop blaming the (paying) customer who lives where they live. Your getting angry at the wrong set of people!
Anyway I hope they route you better and pay you more!

[RobertE]

Personally, I think all customers should pay an nominal installation charge regardless where they live, as long as that goes to the installer. That would go a long way towards bringing "professionals" back into the field. Day 1 of free installs killed the quality installations.

Anyway, rural customers should pay more just because they are rural.

[BattleZone]

But its only a luxury for those in rural areas right (they should pay more). This service started out being targeted to those who had the least number of options. Don't blame the customer for what your (hsp or sub) is doing to you. Take that up with them and stop blaming the (paying) customer who lives where they live. Your getting angry at the wrong set of people!
Anyway I hope they route you better and pay you more!

You *do* realize that for the first several years DirecTV existed, you not only had to purchase your dish and receivers, but you had to install the system yourself (or hire a satellite contractor independently to do so).

Then, DirecTV started offering installation, but you, as the customer, had to pay for that installation. Installers were actually paid a good amount of money (at least 50-60% more than the equivalent job today) to install that 18" dish and 1-2 basic receivers.

It's only been the last 5-6 years that they've been able to offer a free installation (of course, with programming commitments to ensure they eventually make money).

Neither DirecTV nor DishNetwork was "started" with the idea of free installations.

Still, the truth is that DirecTV pays out enough money to pay for the install... but they pay it to the HSPs, who keep 2/3 of that money (contractors) or 3/4 (in-house), leaving the actual installers with so little money that they can never get ahead. Not that the HSPs want the installers to get ahead...

[jlancaster]

You *do* realize that for the first several years DirecTV existed, you not only had to purchase your dish and receivers, but you had to install the system yourself (or hire a satellite contractor independently to do so).

Then, DirecTV started offering installation, but you, as the customer, had to pay for that installation. Installers were actually paid a good amount of money (at least 50-60% more than the equivalent job today) to install that 18" dish and 1-2 basic receivers.

It's only been the last 5-6 years that they've been able to offer a free installation (of course, with programming commitments to ensure they eventually make money).

Neither DirecTV nor DishNetwork was "started" with the idea of free installations.

Still, the truth is that DirecTV pays out enough money to pay for the install... but they pay it to the HSPs, who keep 2/3 of that money (contractors) or 3/4 (in-house), leaving the actual installers with so little money that they can never get ahead. Not that the HSPs want the installers to get ahead...
You *do* realize that what I was talking about (rural customers paying more) had nothing to do with "free installations" programing or purchasing of equipment, right?
This has to do with how the hsp routes their techs (through Inhouse or subcontractors). The rural customer shouldn't pay a penalty for where there service is or isn't. The OP said rural customers should pay more...I disagree!!!
Directv should bust up (at all expense!) the hsp's altogether! Let the tech be an independant contractor directly for Directv and pay a GOOD wage! Stop rewarding the hack.

[Christopher Gould]

Personaly I think that the rural customers should be the ones to pay. They do have the choice of were they live and often times living in a rural area is far cheaper than living in the city. I don't expect that directv or the install companies with raise thier payout ever. In fact it's more likely to decrease in time. I love my job and thats why I continue to do it, but there is going to come a day when it won't make any sense to even do the job, if things don't change. Let me pose this question. What if you ordered directv, and the next day someone from directv called you and said, "I'm sorry we can't take care of you because there is no one even remotely close to were you live who can do the installation." Would that customer then be willing to pay extra to get the job done? If they want it bad enough. I think a fair price to compensate for the additional time and gas would be $100. MOST other companies who have to drive outside thier particular circle Do charge the customer extra. Why doesn't directv. It wasn't that many years ago when people thought that Getting a two room install for $99 was an awesome deal.

I did not choose to live where i am. I was born here and unless you want to fork up the cost of moving me, i am stuck here. Next thing you'll want is to have higher programing rates because we live in the middle of nowhere. :nono2:

[Annihilator31]

I did not choose to live where i am. I was born here and unless you want to fork up the cost of moving me, i am stuck here. Next thing you'll want is to have higher programing rates because we live in the middle of nowhere. :nono2:
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard here. Unless your physically disabled, then you have the ability to move. On top of that programing has Nothing to do with installation. :nono:

[Christopher Gould]

its called money. not physically moving. you can't pay for gas but expect me to pick up everything get a new job, house, and move

[fluffybear]

I am not real keen on the idea of making someone pay just because they live out in the sticks. It really all depends on you are getting paid if your employer (or at least DirecTV) should be compensating you for your time and gas.
I lived in Northern Minnesota for several years and I had an installer out once and he stated he drove nearly 2 hours just to get to my place. When I asked him about it, he said it comes out in the end as he is paid by the job. Some jobs might take an entire day and he may not eat very well that night but there are quite a few days when most of his jobs take under 30 minutes and he is raking it in.

[ironwood]

Once in awhile I drive up in the mountains where rich folks live million dollar log homes beautiful views wild life no utilities. They pay extra for everything. Homebuilders charge them more to drive those logs up a narrow mountain road in a truck and then haul one by one for a mile further where truck wouldnt go. They have to use solar power and power generators water from the well satellite internet. Phone is the only utility available. Those people do pay a lot more for everything. They do have free sunsets and sunrises very beautiful. And free Directv installation. I dont make much on those trips. But I enjoy the view

[joe diamond]

I asked my tech about this awhile ago, He works for Ironwood Comm, then have to drive 1 1/2 hours from there office to my place, They have a company van that says Directv on it, the company pays for gas and they get a hourly wage for driving on long distance calls.

270,
You are correct. The Home Service Provider (HSP) in house system is as much as 80% employees and as much as 20% subcontractors. DTV & these HSPs are discovering how much it cost to do what they have been subcontracting.

The HSPs have a high turn over rate........like 100% each year. Where does the skill level grow?

Joe

[Annihilator31]

I am not real keen on the idea of making someone pay just because they live out in the sticks. It really all depends on you are getting paid if your employer (or at least DirecTV) should be compensating you for your time and gas.
I lived in Northern Minnesota for several years and I had an installer out once and he stated he drove nearly 2 hours just to get to my place. When I asked him about it, he said it comes out in the end as he is paid by the job. Some jobs might take an entire day and he may not eat very well that night but there are quite a few days when most of his jobs take under 30 minutes and he is raking it in.
Yeah, northern MN is great. No stoplights and no street signs. Yeah never know were your gonna end up. Directions sound alot like, "Turn left at the big gray rock, go a little ways till ya see a tree then keep strait past the barn, turn right at the old totem pole, look for the one cow thats not eating and it's the 7th or 8th house on the right. But your right, sometimes days are like that but it's not an equal balance to the good.

[jlancaster]

Farther not further by the way...I like your attitude ironwood but fact is a sub is a sub no matter where. I live in a very rural area, should I charge more to go to the "city"? Nope. I'll say it again if you don't like how and where you are being routed change it with those who route you. Don't blame the customer for where your hsp is routing you. If the hsp paid well enough, you would see folks in the rural areas "take care of their own".

[joe diamond]

Whatever dude...

Like I said the 18" satellite dish system(your beloved Dish Network included) was designed and brought to market from the ground up as a way for people not in areas serviced by CATV to be able to access the same CATV "type" programming easily and by their own hand. This is a FACT. I've followed the evolution of this system since it was just a gleem in it's creators' eyes.

The increased complexity of installing the current iteration of the system equipment has been brought on by necessity by DirecTV and Dish in comibination with the FCC. They're the ones that evolved the system away from "self-install" simplicity and now they need to foot the bill for their increased complexities and pay the people making these long road trips accordingly. Plain and simple.

Racer,

You got it. I sold and installed PrimeStar and it was owned by PrimeStar partners that were CATV companies. the 18' dishes were cheaper to install than the Pstar stuff.

It makes a difference weather you are selling programming with the promise of doing what it takes ...like a public utility.........or.......selling equipment and installation service that are available to allow using other equipment for TV viewing.. All that FREE INSTALLATION stuff just confuses everyone.

Joe

[jlancaster]

Yeah, northern MN is great. No stoplights and no street signs. Yeah never know were your gonna end up. Directions sound alot like, "Turn left at the big gray rock, go a little ways till ya see a tree then keep strait past the barn, turn right at the old totem pole, look for the one cow thats not eating and it's the 7th or 8th house on the right.
gps

[joe diamond]

Is there an arguement here anywhere for the self install again, for those that want to?

Sportsfan,

The results were not too cool last time. I noted that the original DTV installation kits were about enough material for your basic mobile home. There are customers out ther who can do the DTV installation..(not considered difficult by professionals.)............and those who think thy couls but are cluless to the skills and tools needed.

A sign off option with a credit for the installation portion of the future costs might work for some.

Joe

[HDTVsportsfan]

Don't get me wrong. A self install these days is not for the faint of heart. The benefits probably would not out way the problems and frustrstions that would occur for the customer and DirecTV. Not to mention an installer having to come behind a failed self install. Which can be worse than if the installer had done the install himself from the start.

Some type of sign off option would be interesting.

[lowgolfer]

Do installers make a lot of money when they do multiple jobs in a city and lose a little when they go a farther distance?

[carl6]

Do installers make a lot of money when they do multiple jobs in a city and lose a little when they go a farther distance?

Most installers are paid by the number of receivers installed, not by the hour. So if an installer is working in a densly populated area, only has to drive 20 minutes from one job to the next, he has the opportunity to do more installations, and therefore the opportunity to make more money.

The installer that has to drive an hour or more between jobs isn't getting paid for that time (or gas).

So the in-city guys can do maybe four installations a day while the very rural guy might do two (within a given period of time, say 8 hours). Many work longer hours to do more installations, but again the pay is the same regardless if you are on your first or eleventh hour.

Carl

[glennb]

Most customer can NOT do a proper self instal unless it's just a standard 18" dish, and even then without the right parts and tools... Even if a person does do a self install, he's still going to have to go and buy the install parts at thier expense.

I live in major city and I prefer to do my own proper DIRECTV self installs so I don't have to wait around all day for a tech. to show up(or call to re-schedule) that wants to rush thru the job and get to the next install. The AT9 dish I put up last year is still working great. I don't mind buying my own stuff. It's a lot better than going thru DIRECTV and getting a beat-up used DVR.

[glennb]

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard here. Unless your physically disabled, then you have the ability to move. On top of that programing has Nothing to do with installation. :nono:

Unless you are physically disabled than YOU have the ability to move.

[Annihilator31]

Unless you are physically disabled than YOU have the ability to move. And if I moved, (which I can) there would be NOBODY to do installs in this area at all. Customers would be on a waiting list that would mean months before anyone could get to them.

[Slowhand]

Do installers make a lot of money when they do multiple jobs in a city and lose a little when they go a farther distance?

The problem is with the system that DirecTV has set up is that they pay the same amount for the job for a system installed in Tulsa OK as they do for a job in Washington DC. But, it costs the installer a whole lot more to live and support his family in a metropolitan area then in a rural location.

An installer who lives and works in a metropolitan area must do more installs to earn the same standard of living as an installer in an area where the cost of living is lower. This just leads to poor quality of work and service to the customer.

The customer may not feel like he should be charged more for service if he lives in a rural area and he may have some valid points. But, I think all should agree that it should not be the installer who should have to pay for the expenses of travel and lost revenue if he must service a rural customer. This expense should be born by DirecTV and not by the installer.

Slowhand

[Annihilator31]

The problem is with the system that DirecTV has set up is that they pay the same amount for the job for a system installed in Tulsa OK as they do for a job in Washington DC. But, it costs the installer a whole lot more to live and support his family in a metropolitan area then in a rural location.

An installer who lives and works in a metropolitan area must do more installs to earn the same standard of living as an installer in an area where the cost of living is lower. This just leads to poor quality of work and service to the customer.

The customer may not feel like he should be charged more for service if he lives in a rural area and he may have some valid points. But, I think all should agree that it should not be the installer who should have to pay for the expenses of travel and lost revenue if he must service a rural customer. This expense should be born by DirecTV and not by the installer.

Slowhand I never even thought of it this way and you are exactly right. I am surprised that no one had mentioned it before. I too have worked in the DC area and I know what it costs to live there, not to mention the aweful traffic issues. The cost of living has certainly gone up, however, we tech's have been earing the exact same pay for the last ten years.

[Elephanthead]

Well you installers are getting underpaid, you will continue to have installers quiting and less skilled installers will be hired, until either DTV raises what they pay, or the last installer quits. That is how the market works. Obviously DTV is satisfied with the quality of its installs, you can either take what they are paying, ask for a raise, or quit.

[tcusta00]

That is how the market works. Obviously DTV is satisfied with the quality of its installs, you can either take what they are paying, ask for a raise, or quit.

Ah, finally some clarity! It's capitalism, boys. No one's handcuffed you to the satellite dish installation industry.

[brucegrr]

Capitalism? Don't know about that.

Capitalism is supposedly built on the foundation of competition.

In rural areas there is no competition. In some areas it is directv/dish or nothing. I guess there is a little competition, but not much.

Capitalism may not be the best model for installers. Who can do it the fastest and cheapest, yes? Then we get to view all the wonderful install photos from those installs done by those fast/quick cheap installers. (and it ain't pretty)

Skill and good work should be rewarded. A fair wage for good work. Perhaps a better system would be to raise the install cost and allow the consumer to choose a local installer. The closer to home you get the more likely you have some recourse if an install goes bad. When you deal with a 1-800 number...........it is hard to make anyone accountable.

Bruce

[Elephanthead]

You installers should be hitting DTV right now when they need you most to make the switch to HD pay off. Those birds don't mean jack if their aren't any boxes installed on the ground.

[tcusta00]

Capitalism? Don't know about that.

Capitalism is supposedly built on the foundation of competition.

In rural areas there is no competition. In some areas it is directv/dish or nothing. I guess there is a little competition, but not much.

Capitalism may not be the best model for installers. Who can do it the fastest and cheapest, yes? Then we get to view all the wonderful install photos from those installs done by those fast/quick cheap installers. (and it ain't pretty)

Skill and good work should be rewarded. A fair wage for good work. Perhaps a better system would be to raise the install cost and allow the consumer to choose a local installer. The closer to home you get the more likely you have some recourse if an install goes bad. When you deal with a 1-800 number...........it is hard to make anyone accountable.

Bruce

Apparently skill and good work aren't the main requirements of the job according to the employer (which is unfortunate) so the installers have to deal with it.

If the wage isn't fair people wouldn't do the work. If that's not capitalism then what is? When enough customers complain about the quality of the work then the employer has to change something. It's simple capitalism. But right now they're okay with sending installers back to correct shoddy workmanship and that's okay because that's how they choose to run their business.

[brucegrr]

This is probably not the forum for a discussion on the merits of capitalism nor the various strains of it :)

Suffice it to say..........lots of people work for unfair wages because there is no other work.............( not saying that is the case with directv installers)

There are many nuances to the whole labor/wage/economy issue.

My only point is that installers should be paid for their labor and what they are paid should be fair. Good work should be rewarded and bad work penalized. Good work or bad installers are all paid the same.

Over the years I have moved a number of times. (I am a minister) As a result I have had 7 Directv installs. The installs range from superb to my 6yr old could do a better job.

It seems Directv has a system where good work is not rewarded. If the customer doesn't complain........job done! Those of us on this forum are much more likely to complain than the normal customer. Far too many people just accept things as "that is just the way it is."

Bruce

[tcusta00]

This is probably not the forum for a discussion on the merits of capitalism nor the various strains of it :)

I didn't know we were debating the merits or strains of capitalism. It is what it is. See my post above.

[brucegrr]

capitalism is not singular. There are different types of capitalism each having shades and degrees.

I suspect you are using the term to mean free market capitalism?

Bruce

[tcusta00]

The generally accepted definition of capitalism in our society is singular.

cap·i·tal·ism –noun an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

cap·i·tal·ism n. An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

capitalism An economic and political system characterized by a free market for goods and services and private control of production and consumption.

[brucegrr]

I am not going to debate this with you. There is no point in it. I guess I could drag out some economics books and cut and paste. All that would prove is that I can cut and paste.

If in a capitialist system we do not reward hard, honest, good work with a fair wage then the system needs fixed.

A continual quest for faster work at cheaper cost will ultimately make us a nation of Wal-mart greeters. There will always be someone who can do it faster and cheaper. Of course faster and cheaper most often does not result in better.

If an installer drives an hour to my place and spends several hours doing an install, and he does it well, he should be rewarded accordingly. Right now the system rewards the good and bad equally.

A good install has an artistic quality. The good installer thinks carefully about the aesthetics of the install. How is it going to look when it is finished? How does it look when people view the customers house from the road?

Of course I suspect this is a futile discussion. Faster and cheaper is the rule for our day.

Bruce

[tcusta00]

If in a capitialist system we do not reward hard, honest, good work with a fair wage then the system needs fixed.

A continual quest for faster work at cheaper cost will ultimately make us a nation of Wal-mart greeters. There will always be someone who can do it faster and cheaper. Of course faster and cheaper most often does not result in better.



And therein lies the beauty of capitalism. If consumers demand quality then they will get it. If consumers demand the job be done quick and at the lowest price, well, they will get that. The dollar rules. Right now our society is turning corporations into a bunch of Wal Marts, and that's too bad. But we've done it to ourselves. If you demand higher quality then pay a higher price, that's all. There's a few installers on the board (and specifically on this thread) that will come and do your install right the first time - for a premium price. Capitalism. If you pay a higher price you will get the quality you demand.

[brucegrr]

I don't think any of those installers live anywhere near me :)

I think we are after the same thing..........just coming from different points.

I tend to be a little OCD about things. I hate seeing exposed cables anywhere. My older kids laugh at my compulsion for using tie straps, making sure cables are just right, etc.

Sometimes when we take a country drive I will look at how satellite systems are installed. I know, sometimes, it is the customer that is at fault, but I have seen some pretty bizarre installations. Why did they install it like that? Faster/cheaper? Lazy? Lack of training? Lots of factors.

My son works for a wireless internet company in this area. He climbs their towers and does their trouble calls. Many times the trouble is nothing more than a ________ (insert favorite swear word)install. If the installer had taken the time to check all the available options for a signal.......but no.......they put the antenna the first place the got a good signal. "Git 'er done" Some Directv installers are the same.

I wish we had more options in this area. I know there are some pretty conscientious installers on this forum. I wish they lived in this area. In years past I have done my own installs but MS has made that impossible now.

Last comment for me. I want to say I appreciate people who take the time to do a job well. They are most often worth more than they are paid.

Bruce

[tcusta00]

I know we're both on the same page about quality vs. quantity but it was just the overriding economic principles that we disagreed on. :) But I think we're on the same page now: WalMart attitude is killing service!!

I'm sure most installers who frequent these forums are the exception to the installation nightmare stories we read about. They actual care about their craft and care enough to expand their knowledge by reading around here and helping where they can.

Personally I had a great install. Everything is tidy, cabling done right, RG6 trenched properly, et al. Tie wraps all over the place. Holes in the side of the house are just big enough for the cables and then caulked inside and out. I probably couldn't have done it better myself. And the 60 mph winds we had over the weekend did nothing to my alignment, which made me quite happy!

And I paid for it. It was worth every red cent. :)

[ironwood]

I dont know what you people arguing about. Its very simple: Directv competes with Dish competes with Cable and price is pushed all the way down to 19.99 a/month with no upfront cost. How are you gonna make profit on that? If you raise price one penny to 20.00 customers will run to the competitor. Just to save a penny. Here is your answer.

[ajc68]

It's not about charging the customer more, it's about getting mileage reimbursement from your employer if you're providing your own vehicle. It's really that simple, and it really should be required by law. That's how it's done in Hollywood. All show runners get mileage reimbursement at the government rate.

[brucegrr]

I wonder what the percentage is of subscribers who are at 19.99 a month?

Cable, in this area, is not price competitive with satellite. Channel offerings are much smaller than satellite. Time Warner does have a 13.49 package here.You get the locals, weather channel, cspan, etc. Of course, on a HDTV the channels are unwatchable (grainy, soft, bad, bad, bad)

Bruce

[tcusta00]

It's not about charging the customer more, it's about getting mileage reimbursement from your employer if you're providing your own vehicle. It's really that simple, and it really should be required by law. That's how it's done in Hollywood. All show runners get mileage reimbursement at the government rate.

Not to get too political here, but you're asking that, in addition to minimum wage laws, Congress ought to pass a law mandating that certain expenses that are a normal part of the occupation be paid by the employer? I'm not saying that the employer shouldn't be paying it, but legislate it? That's always worked out well. :nono2:

And if it's not about charging customers more, who's gonna pay it? Go out back and shake the money tree, that oughta do ya! :lol:

[seltech]

you could always itemize your deductions on your taxes for mileage and such expenses :lol: . Sorry I just had too.

Seems the problem is with your employer sir. They've gotten away not reimbursing for fuel/mileage which should be done in your case and now its the norm to them because there employees accepted this. Or a company vehicle for that matter. The fact you stated if you moved away there would be no techs available for installs in that area is a noble thing to say. Unfortunately in this situation it won't make all that money in gas you pay out come back :(

and if your really the last tech left in that area surly you can work something out with your employer to get some reimbursement. I mean thats some pretty good leverage, the only installer left, Kinda like Doctor Who :p

and its not like the employer is simply handing you cash and taking a loss when you get fuel/mileage reimbursements, they will simply claim this fuel mileage on the companies expenses and claim that on there taxes.

[tcusta00]

and if your really the last tech left in that area surly you can work something out with your employer to get some reimbursement. I mean thats some pretty good leverage, the only installer left, Kinda like Doctor Who :p


I have serious doubts that he's the only installer in a 3 hour drive-time radius.

[nibyak]

I just had an HD upgrade last Friday. The tech was at the house for almost 2 hours. The entire time he was there, he had his van idling in my driveway. Apparently he wasn’t too concerned about the high cost of fuel.

[tcusta00]

I just had an HD upgrade last Friday. The tech was at the house for almost 2 hours. The entire time he was there, he had his van idling in my driveway. Apparently he wasn’t too concerned about the high cost of fuel.

there's a guy with a company gas card!

[seltech]

I have serious doubts that he's the only installer in a 3 hour drive-time radius.

I made that statement based on this post from the OP

And if I moved, (which I can) there would be NOBODY to do installs in this area at all. Customers would be on a waiting list that would mean months before anyone could get to them.

just giving feedback based on the data given. :)

[tcusta00]

I made that statement based on this post from the OP



just giving feedback based on the data given. :)

I know, sorry if it sounded like it, but I wasn't saying you said it - just expressing my opinion about the original statement from OP...

[paulh]

You should get a mileage reimbursement from DTV. Someone needs to renegotiate your company's contract with them. I do clinical research for NASA and generally get about $500 quarter for driving between Johnson Space Center and University of Texas Medical Branch (over 60 miles round trip). Current gov't rate is 50.5 cents/mile. I think most companies and contractors use the gov't rate as a baseline for what is considered fair reimbursement. At today's gas prices and $4/gallon gas in the near future DTV will have to take care of you guys if they want to keep their new customer numbers up. Passing the cost on the customer is not an option in a recession. Luxury funds are drying up.

At the very least the mileage or actual costs should be a tax deduction. (makes it a little better, but not full compensation) It may be possible for a rural heavy installer to show very little actual profit, tax wise, when using the IRS mileage allowance.

[TigersFanJJ]

At the very least the mileage or actual costs should be a tax deduction. (makes it a little better, but not full compensation) It may be possible for a rural heavy installer to show very little actual profit, tax wise, when using the IRS mileage allowance.

Some technicians even see a loss, according to the IRS, after mileage is deducted on their taxes. ;)

[slimline]

Some technicians even see a loss, according to the IRS, after mileage is deducted on their taxes. ;)


dont quote me on it it cost me $.25 per mile tor un my van and i get $.49 allowable on taxes. i only run 50mile radius in my dma. i will go beyond that
if there is more than one install.......

[dodge boy]

I think the installing techs should organize like the sheetmetal workers or HVAC service techs for the company I work for... They have a hall that provides educated workers, and the workers provide their own hand tools, like snips, tongs, etc. For field guys and Services vehicles and gas cards are provided for the workers, they are on the clock from job site to job site, they have a company "home depot" "lowes" etc. card for any supplys they need when away from the office.

[tcusta00]

Unionize! Great idea! :nono2:

Milton Friedman is rolling in his grave. RIP, Milt! I got this one.

[dodge boy]

Hey that way the installers would make money and get benefits.....
Union is the only way to go, in a time when the middle class is shrinking we need more strong unions to hold management's feet to the fire.
As for Friedman his crap on free markets doesn't take acoount for how easy it is for markets to be hi jacked, look at the oil market. Regulation and control is best.
Now back on topic as to how to pay installers for rural installs out in hicks ville.

[tcusta00]

Hey that way the installers would make money and get benefits.....
Union is the only way to go, in a time when the middle class is shrinking we need more strong unions to hold management's feet to the fire.
As for Friedman his crap on free markets doesn't take acoount for how easy it is for markets to be hi jacked, look at the oil market. Regulation and control is best.
Now back on topic as to how to pay installers for rural installs out in hicks ville.

Yeah, because oil is governed by free-market economics. You're trying to stick a cartel-controlled item into a capitalistic model - nice try.

[RobertE]

I think the installing techs should organize like the sheetmetal workers or HVAC service techs for the company I work for... They have a hall that provides educated workers, and the workers provide their own hand tools, like snips, tongs, etc. For field guys and Services vehicles and gas cards are provided for the workers, they are on the clock from job site to job site, they have a company "home depot" "lowes" etc. card for any supplys they need when away from the office.

Been there, done that, and it failed.

Unfortunately, the company (HSP & D*) subtley point out that in the event of unionization a couple of things could & will happen.

1) An AFS will be brought into the market to cover the work during the "labor issue". After all, the customers must be served, at whatever the cost. Yeah, how about paying me what your going to pay the AFS, then we wont have any "labor issues"

2) HSPs sometimes have multiple divisions. During a "labor issue" your divison gets zero work and guys from out of town from another division take over.

3) Your division simply gets shut down.

4) etc

The FUD that gets thrown around is amazing. Remember most of the techs out there are in the 18-30 age bracket. Have very little union exposure. Have no idea what is & isn't leagle.

[dodge boy]

Yeah, because oil is governed by free-market economics. You're trying to stick a cartel-controlled item into a capitalistic model - nice try.

No the price of oil is being ran up by hedge fund investors buying into it rather than the actual supply-demand=price.....

now I am done with this line of comments. :listenup: :backtotop

[tcusta00]

No the price of oil is being ran up by hedge fund investors buying into it rather than the actual supply-demand=price.....

now I am done with this line of comments. :listenup: :backtotop

Convenient how you try to end the conversation getting the last (incorrect) word. Hedge funds have nothing to do with oil prices.

[dodge boy]

Convenient how you try to end the conversation getting the last (incorrect) word. Hedge funds have nothing to do with oil prices.

Look I look at the finacials all the freaking time... the dollar is dropping, hedge funds are moving into commodities (including oil) because of the falling dollar and thos large investments in the commoditoes are what is driving oil up currently.... Oil supplies are at an all time high, demand is dropping off, so it sure as hell isn't supply demand criteria driving oil prices at this time..... Get your freakin head out of your a**! I am not right about everything, but I am right about this! Now I am done and you are certainly wrong! :thats: :box: :icon_stup :kickbutt:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/23600044

Can you say Commodity Bubble?

now this is not the forum for politics and such that is why i am done with this line of comments......

[tcusta00]

Look I look at the finacials all the freaking time... the dollar is dropping, hedge funds are moving into commodities (including oil) because of the falling dollar and thos large investments in the commoditoes are what is driving oil up currently.... Oil supplies are at an all time high, demand is dropping off, so it sure as hell isn't supply demand criteria driving oil prices at this time..... Get your freakin head out of your a**! I am not right about everything, but I am right about this! Now I am done and you are certainly wrong! :thats: :box: :icon_stup :kickbutt:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/23600044

Can you say Commodity Bubble?

now this is not the forum for politics and such that is why i am done with this line of comments......

Oh, right, the news media is always right, thanks for reminding me. I won't list my credentials.

[veryoldschool]

OK, you've both had "the last word" so :backtotop

[AntAltMike]

A group of installation industry veterans who have actively participated at lots of the DBS provider's annual bashes have been trying to set up an association for years. Last I knew, they had nineteen members out of - what - maybe 50,000 installers nationally, and were threatening to sue each other.

[RobertE]

Since this thread is teetering on full blown personal attacks/politics, maybe it's time for it to be closed.

-or-

:backtotop

[Annihilator31]

I have serious doubts that he's the only installer in a 3 hour drive-time radius. Sorry, but I don't have leverage. The HSP here and Directv would rather see me quit than pay me more money. The fact is, installers make the same no matter were they live and it's been that way for a very long time. Directv has paid the same to the HSP's almost since it started. As for the three hour thing? If you don't believe me, bug off. There are more techs farther away that will eventually take up the slack but those customers are put on long waiting lists.

[Annihilator31]

I have serious doubts that he's the only installer in a 3 hour drive-time radius.
Sorry but at the moments, I am!!!!

[Annihilator31]

Some technicians even see a loss, according to the IRS, after mileage is deducted on their taxes. ;) Exactly. One can only write off so many miles and get credit for it. This year I wrote off my miles and ended up a few thosand in the negative. That sure doesn't look good on a finance statement.

[dodge boy]

Since this thread is teetering on full blown personal attacks/politics, maybe it's time for it to be closed.

-or-

:backtotop

Sorry....:D

[Annihilator31]

Sorry....:D
Maybe you should just ignore this thread if it bothers you.

[joe diamond]

Why stop?

I don't think...you can kick HSPs around too much. They need more kicks. And the (you know the words) folks at DTV that close their eyes and hope nothing bad happens deserve what they get too.

Competent Directv installations do happen, sometimes.

But, the whole DTV installation thing COULD have been an introductory high school electronics intern program. The installations are easy enough the kids could have done them, made some money and moved on. Some would stay in the "industry."

Instead they just embarrass themselves pretending they have an installation department. The trucks look cool, however.

Joe

[joe diamond]

there's a guy with a company gas card!

He WAS concerned about a burned out starter and or battery.

Joe

[joe diamond]

New installers arrive with some sort of work ethic. IF they knew where they were going to end up they would not have considered working for the HSPs.(Home Service Providers)

Installers get screwed on their money and overworked to the point of a safety issues. They quit and are replaced. It makes sense to DTV to train somebody to work for two weeks? Retention is not a four letter word.

Brilliant!

Joe

[brahuna]

This is why I, as a rural customer, install my own equipment. I know it's done right, and a technician doesn't have to waste their or my time.

I also did this. I just asked DirecTV to ship me the dish and equipment (they said no). When the installers arrived I said I would install everything and sign off saying they installed it so they would get paid. Worked out great.

[toober]

Maybe the answer is simply to put hourly techs in company vans with fuel cards. I'm perfectly happy with my pay and don't care where I am working as long as I'm on the clock. It even encourages me to do a better job, as I'm not trying to make more by finishing sooner. I tell them they can route me whatever they want, I'll work at my own pace and ensure that every job is done right.

[TigersFanJJ]

Maybe the answer is simply to put hourly techs in company vans with fuel cards. I'm perfectly happy with my pay and don't care where I am working as long as I'm on the clock. It even encourages me to do a better job, as I'm not trying to make more by finishing sooner. I tell them they can route me whatever they want, I'll work at my own pace and ensure that every job is done right.

That wouldn't be the answer. The HSPs would lose too many techs because of the huge cut in pay. You may be happy making what you do (and there is nothing wrong with that) but many subs couldn't make a living at the rate of pay that the hourly guys get around here.

Many hourly techs take their time. Not to make sure they do a good job but because they have no incentive to do a better and faster job. The few techs that did go from a sub to hourly would probably be even worse because they would always have in their mind that they should be getting four to six times the pay that they are making to do the same job. (Just want to be clear. I'm not grouping you in with this category as I can tel that you, like myself, take pride in what you do.)

If you add the extra time to complete the job to the reduction in the tech force and you will get much more backlog and, eventually, no Directv contract because you can't keep up with the demand.

[crashHD]

You'd think that maybe some of these rich farmers would Tip

You're confused. There's no such thing as rich farmers.

[toober]

That wouldn't be the answer. The HSPs would lose too many techs because of the huge cut in pay. You may be happy making what you do (and there is nothing wrong with that) but many subs couldn't make a living at the rate of pay that the hourly guys get around here.

I'm definately not talking about the $10 hourly that I've heard of some places paying, I couldn't work for that. I gross around $1100 a week without having to pay for fuel, supplies, or vehicle maintenance. I figure if I am making less this way, it's made up in the lack of headaches.

[Birdman79]

I'm definately not talking about the $10 hourly that I've heard of some places paying, I couldn't work for that. I gross around $1100 a week without having to pay for fuel, supplies, or vehicle maintenance. I figure if I am making less this way, it's made up in the lack of headaches.

But there's no way for you to make that working hourly unless you take your time(i mean really take your time).We were told at our HSP that we might be going hourly withing a year,starting at $12 dollars an hour!!!.And after getting your bonuses (passing %80 QC ,IRD phone hook ups)it should go up to $15-$16.I believe when this goes in effect a lot of techs will quit.Nobody goes past 50 hours here,hell i dont remember the last time i worked over 40 hours!!!,and to make what iam making now i'd have to put in at least 55 hours!!!:eek2:

[toober]

But there's no way for you to make that working hourly unless you take your time(i mean really take your time).We were told at our HSP that we might be going hourly withing a year,starting at $12 dollars an hour!!!.And after getting your bonuses (passing %80 QC ,IRD phone hook ups)it should go up to $15-$16.I believe when this goes in effect a lot of techs will quit.Nobody goes past 50 hours here,hell i dont remember the last time i worked over 40 hours!!!,and to make what iam making now i'd have to put in at least 55 hours!!!:eek2:

I am making $20/hr and usually run about 50 hrs a week. Thankfully, it's slowed a bit and the past 2 weeks have been 40-45 hrs and I have a little more time with the family before summer gets here. I run the same speed year round, I don't milk the jobs, but they are done right.
I may be a bit slower than others. When I was paid by the job, I was only averaging about $25 an hour. It would be a bigger difference if I were faster and making less than $20/hr.

[satguy22]

The place where i worked went to hourly and lost over 90% of there help. They rent the trucks and give the techs gas cards and reduce thier pay by 60%. Told me i would save money. I told them they were wrong. They said that dtv told them they had to do this or not work for dtv. Sorry they are doing this to you too. The worker has no rights and they know it.

[Annihilator31]

You're confused. There's no such thing as rich farmers. I guess that depends on how you define Rich. It's a known fact that last year farmers made some of the highest profits ever. The demand for corn and wheat is high and so is the pay. I'm no farmer, but most of my installs are for farmers, and let me tell you something, these farmers have some money and it's about time, they deserve it!

[crashHD]

I guess it depends on what you're farming. If you're buying that expensive grain to feed livestock...it's not so hot. It cost more to feed the hogs I'm selling right now than I will get paid for them.

Record prices do not equal record profits. Commodity prices have risen sharply in the last year, but there not the only thing. Fertilizer has tripled. Land has doubled or more, herbicides, seed, and fuel are always rising. Last year's prices produced decent profits. This year it will take those kind of prices just to cover costs.

Last year's crops had good profit potential, though. Input(fertilizer,fuel,seed,etc) costs at the beginning of last year were still reasonable, and anybody that held on to their crop long enough to benefit from these rising costs had the benefit of selling at a high price crops that were produced with low inputs. Kind of a twisted version of the old "buy low, sell high" idea.

[TigersFanJJ]

I'm definately not talking about the $10 hourly that I've heard of some places paying, I couldn't work for that. I gross around $1100 a week without having to pay for fuel, supplies, or vehicle maintenance. I figure if I am making less this way, it's made up in the lack of headaches.

Yeah, that's not bad. I'd probably think long and hard about working for the HSP here if they paid what you are getting. The HSP guys in our area are getting $12 an hour. I'd probably have to sell my house and truck to live off that. :D

[satguy22]

many of these customers may be left in the cold soon. as of the new year dtv has cut wages of installers by 50%. They now pay $20. on up grade.

[HDTVsportsfan]

Upgrade of what? Just the receiver?

No matter what the uprgade it would cost 20 bucks just to get to the customers house no matter where it wa. 20 bucks is obsurd.

[satguy22]

Yes just the reciever. But a big $10 more to change your dish to hd.

[curt8403]

I personally feel that it is an abomination for the techs to have to pick up the extra costs for a rural call. customers will object to paying extra, but the extra costs should be split between directv and the customer. The tech should not be made to take up the extra costs.

[Sartori]

In thinking about those customers who live in deep fringe or rural areas, I pose this question. Should the customer (based on location) pay extra (a fee) for installation or should Directv pay extra to the technician, or none of the above? I ask because us tech's who work in rural areas sometimes have to drive 3+ hours to get to one customers house and the expense of fuel these days make those jobs not even worth doing. At the moment we do NOT get compensated in any way for making the long trip to provide service.

Dude? Did you forget where you live? I assume its North Dakota, theres a picture of it in the dictionary under the definition of rural....

What did you expect when you took on this job.......it take 3 hours and 200 miles to get anywhere.....

[IcedOmega13]

write it off to taxes