View Full Version : Need help securing my dish
I had my Slimline dish installed last September and for a while everything was fine.
That is, until the first big storm came through.
Ever since then my dish has been wobbly where the arm meets the railing.
The dish itself (the "bowl") is pretty secure that's not much of an issue
It's really where the arm and the railing meet
I called D*, but they want to charge me $80 to send a guy out for an install that should have been done right the first time :rolleyes:
So I'm wondering if some of you handy guys can give me some advice on securing my dish (it tends to move right to left) where the arm is
I am far from handy so please explain everything to me in very simple terms
Thanks in advance to everyone
I've attached a few pics below of my setup.
http://i25.tinypic.com/5709t.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/34rewib.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/zl2ogp.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/wqsfud.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/96j0oo.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/4ucsa9.jpg
davring
03-08-08, 01:41 PM
I was well out of my warranty period as well when I experienced alignment problems due to a poor installation. I called D* and politely explained to them that I was not aware the mounting was inadequate or I would have had the installer make it right at the time and that I also thought if it had been done right the first time I wouldn't need a service call. They sent a "tech" out for what they called a "reinstall" and there was N/C. I would push them nicely on this as it does not look very secure as per your photos and should not have been installed without proper bracing.
I was well out of my warranty period as well when I experienced alignment problems due to a poor installation. I called D* and politely explained to them that I was not aware the mounting was inadequate or I would have had the installer make it right at the time and that I also thought if it had been done right the first time I wouldn't need a service call. They sent a "tech" out for what they called a "reinstall" and there was N/C. I would push them nicely on this as it does not look very secure as per your photos and should not have been installed without proper bracing.
I've called a couple of times, but no dice for me
They keep pushing for me to pay $80 or enroll in the Protection Plan
I explained to them it should have been installed properly the 1st time, but still nothing :(
HDTVsportsfan
03-08-08, 01:47 PM
I would take it off of the rail all together. Maybe a non penetrating mount like a tripod or the infamous cement in a bucket routine.
davring
03-08-08, 01:48 PM
I have read where they are tightening their belts, but this I think is a little unreasonable. Maybe I was lucky; this was a year and a half ago for me. Maybe the protection plan might be a good investment if you are not comfortable attempting to adjust the dish. The plan does cover about everything from remotes to shipping, some people swear by it.
I'm calling right now and they're still pushing for me to pay $80 or enroll in the protection plan even though the install wasn't done properly
I don't want to do either
Can any of you tell me a way to get my dish secure again?
Maybe get some new screws and bolts or something?
It's been secure before in the past
I would take it off of the rail all together. Maybe a non penetrating mount like a tripod or the infamous cement in a bucket routine.
But the thing is, it was pretty secure before
It's just that there was a lot of wind the other day and now it's loose
I would hate to put it in a bucket, it looks so ugly
I have read where they are tightening their belts, but this I think is a little unreasonable. Maybe I was lucky; this was a year and a half ago for me. Maybe the protection plan might be a good investment if you are not comfortable attempting to adjust the dish. The plan does cover about everything from remotes to shipping, some people swear by it.
I've paid enough money to D*
At this point, I don't feel I should be paying even more money to them for something they should have done right in the first place
I love the PQ I get, but at this point the headaches I get from these alignment issues are starting to become annoying
litzdog911
03-08-08, 02:08 PM
You'll never keep it secure mounted on those skinny railings. You might be able to rig up a couple of plates (wood or metal) to span 3 or 4 of the metal rails so that you have a much more stable foot plate. A couple of monopoles mounted to adjacent rails would add more security.
Pesonally, I would pay the $80 to have it done by a professional installer, perhaps using a tripod mount instead. Guess it depends what your own time is worth.
HDTVsportsfan
03-08-08, 02:09 PM
Well...honestly I see it always coming loose in the future the way it is now. Maybe you could drill some holes in the plates closer in towards black rail/picket it is currently bolted on. Move the bolts closer inwards. That would get more pressure closer to what it's actually attached to.
You'll never keep it secure mounted on those skinny railings. You might be able to rig up a couple of plates (wood or metal) to span 3 or 4 of the metal rails so that you have a much more stable foot plate. A couple of monopoles mounted to adjacent rails would add more security.
Pesonally, I would pay the $80 to have it done by a professional installer, perhaps using a tripod mount instead. Guess it depends what your own time is worth.
But who's to say this won't happen again if I pay $80?
I thought I was getting a professional installer the first time
litzdog911
03-08-08, 02:12 PM
But who's to say this won't happen again if I pay $80?
I thought I was getting a professional installer the first time
Well, there's certainly that risk. But the vast majority of installers would do a better job than this.
Bottom line is that your currently mount is unacceptable. It needs to be changed because it will never stay secure.
Well...honestly I see it always coming loose in the future the way it is now. Maybe you could drill some holes in the plates closer in towards black rail/picket it is currently bolted on. Move the bolts closer inwards. That would get more pressure closer to what it's actually attached to.
What do you mean by "plates" exactly?
Sorry like I said before, I am far from handy so a lot of this is way over my head
The only way I could understand any of this is with a drawing or something, LOL
HDTVsportsfan
03-08-08, 02:15 PM
The base plates that are currently being used now, the plates that the bolts are going thru now. But litzdog has a point. Having a larger base/mounting service spreads out the pressure, then less likely to spin if you will while only attached to one metal rail as it is now.
Well, there's certainly that risk. But the vast majority of installers would do a better job than this.
Bottom line is that your currently mount is unacceptable. It needs to be changed because it will never stay secure.
I'm actually on the line right now with D*
I demanded to speak with a supervisor but they've got me on hold because "all the supervisors are busy"
They really need to come out here and do it right this time without me coming out of pocket again
The base plates that are currently being used now, the plates that the bolts are going thru now. But litzdog has a point. Having a larger base/mounting service spreads out the pressure, then less likely to spin if you will while only attached to one metal rail as it is now.
OK, so where can I get a larger base service from?
Any sheet metal shop can cut you a pair of matching ~1/4" aluminum plates which are slightly larger than the mounting bracket. I like the stuff they use to make custom "truck boxes." There's always scraps of that stuff they can find in a bin. You could always use thinner steel plate, but you'd have to prep it, paint it, etc., and it's more difficult to drill.
Then you put one plate on each side of the railing, catching two of the vertical stiles, and bolt them together with stainless bolts, nuts, and lock washers. Now you have a flat surface to which you can mount the mast's mounting plate with more s.s. hardware.
All this needs to be pre-drilled. Then you can solve the issue of having the mounting pole plumb in the plane of the balcony railing by adjusting the exact position of your "sandwich" plates on the railing verticals before tightening.
I had my Slimline dish installed last September and for a while everything was fine.
That is, until the first big storm came through.
Ever since then my dish has been wobbly where the arm meets the railing.
The dish itself (the "bowl") is pretty secure that's not much of an issue
It's really where the arm and the railing meet
I called D*, but they want to charge me $80 to send a guy out for an install that should have been done right the first time :rolleyes:
So I'm wondering if some of you handy guys can give me some advice on securing my dish (it tends to move right to left) where the arm is
I am far from handy so please explain everything to me in very simple terms
Thanks in advance to everyone
I've attached a few pics below of my setup.
http://i25.tinypic.com/5709t.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/34rewib.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/zl2ogp.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/wqsfud.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/96j0oo.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/4ucsa9.jpg
I have my dish also mounted on my terrace railing, but I have a Phase III, which I know is lighter and not as large.
But, what I'm using may help you.
I use two U bolts - but, with the metal, oblong plates that come with the U bolts.
In fact, I bought two additional U bolts do I can use two metal plates with each U
bolt - only one came with each bolt I bought.
I find that the metal, oblong plates really make for an extremely secure fit.
More metal from the dish and the railing are now in contact!
You may want to try this. Be sure to measure for the size you need, they come in a number of widths/lengths.
HDTVsportsfan
03-08-08, 02:22 PM
Any sheet metal shop can cut you a pair of matching ~1/4" aluminum plates which are slightly larger than the mounting bracket. I like the stuff they use to make custom "truck boxes."
What do they call that stuff....Diamond Sheet Steel?
I have my dish also mounted on my terrace railing, but I have a Phase III, which I know is lighter and not as large.
But, what I'm using may help you.
I use two U bolts - but, with the metal, oblong plates that come with the U bolts.
In fact, I bought two additional U bolts do I can use two metal plates with each U
bolt - only one came with each bolt I bought.
I find that the metal, oblong plates really make for an extremely secure fit.
More metal from the dish and the railing are now in contact!
You may want to try this. Be sure to measure for the size you need, they come in a number of widths/lengths.
Is it possible for you to take a picture of your setup?
I'm not even sure what a "U bolt" is
HDTVsportsfan
03-08-08, 02:25 PM
Is it possible for you to take a picture of your setup?
I'm not even sure what a "U bolt" is
Well......it's shaped like a "U" :) . And it has threads on either end like a regular bolt. Any hardware shop carries them. It's basically a big bolt bent into the shape of a "U".
litzdog911
03-08-08, 02:26 PM
What do you mean by "plates" exactly?
Sorry like I said before, I am far from handy so a lot of this is way over my head
The only way I could understand any of this is with a drawing or something, LOL
Do you have a friend or neighbor that's handy with metal or wood working? It will be difficult to solve this for you in this forum, but someone with basic sheet metal experience could build you a suitable bracket/plate for the dish's mounting arm. It's unlikely that a DirecTV installer would have the equipment to create a custom bracket/plate for your situation.
Your photos don't show the floor of your deck/balcony, but a tripod mount might be a better and more "standard" way to go.
Well......it's shaped like a "U" :) . And it has threads on either end like a regular bolt. Any hardware shop carries them. It's basically a big bolt bent into the shape of a "U".
I think I just need someone to come here and do this right because all of this is just over my head
Even if I got the right tools and equipment, I wouldn't know how to install it
I'm still on hold with D* right now...
HDTVsportsfan
03-08-08, 02:29 PM
Your photos don't show the floor of your deck/balcony, but a tripod mount might be a better and more "standard" way to go.
Gotta go w/ Litzdog on this one. RVD26, i agree you shouldn't have to go thru this. But unless you get DirecTV to come out w/ some satisfaction to yourself, taking it off that rail is your best option.
If you want DirectTv to fix it, which they should do given the low quality of the original install, I would avoid the first line CSRs. Try talking with Retention Department (say cancel service at voice automated prompts and that will get you to retention); or try talking with Customer Installation or Technical Support (you do have a technical support issue...technically speaking.) Alternatively, you might consider writing an email to DirectTv and include your pictures - they say a lot; ask if they think this install meets their quality standards.
I agree with you that it makes no sense to throw more money at DirectTv on this install when it should have been done correctly the first time; they are asking you to pay for their installer's ineptness. That's not right. Throwing $80 at is might only get you the same installer that came out in the first place --- the one who thought that was fine to do and leave you with.
If you decide to spend the money to have it fixed, consider calling an independent satellite installer and having them come out fix it. I suspect it will be about the same amount of money and you'll end up with a much better company to do the work.
houskamp
03-08-08, 02:32 PM
A couple of the arms would do wonders..
Gotta go w/ Litzdog on this one. RVD26, i agree you shouldn't have to go thru this. But unless you get DirecTV to come out w/ some satisfaction to yourself, taking it off that rail is your best option.
Do you think I could get the same LOS if it was on the floor of the balcony?
I think it needs to be on the rail because I don't have the clearest LOS in the world, due to my apartment building being slightly in the way
litzdog911
03-08-08, 02:34 PM
A couple of the arms would do wonders..
The monopoles might help, but it's not clear what they would be securely attached to without drilling through the fence rails.
litzdog911
03-08-08, 02:35 PM
Do you think I could get the same LOS if it was on the floor of the balcony?
I think it needs to be on the rail because I don't have the clearest LOS in the world, due to my apartment building being slightly in the way
Hard to tell from your pictures. Did the original installer ever mention using a tripod mount instead of mounting to the deck rails?
If you want DirectTv to fix it, which they should do given the low quality of the original install, I would avoid the first line CSRs. Try talking with Retention Department (say cancel service at voice automated prompts and that will get you to retention); or try talking with Customer Installation or Technical Support (you do have a technical support issue...technically speaking.) Alternatively, you might consider writing an email to DirectTv and include your pictures - they say a lot; ask if they think this install meets their quality standards.
I agree with you that it makes no sense to throw more money at DirectTv on this install when it should have been done correctly the first time; they are asking you to pay for their installer's ineptness. That's not right. Throwing $80 at is might only get you the same installer that came out in the first place --- the one who thought that was fine to do and leave you with.
If you decide to spend the money to have it fixed, consider calling an independent satellite installer and having them come out fix it. I suspect it will be about the same amount of money and you'll end up with a much better company to do the work.
I'm still on hold with D*
I asked to speak to a supervisor
I swear they're hoping I just hang up and go away already...
litzdog911
03-08-08, 02:39 PM
I'm still on hold with D*
I asked to speak to a supervisor
I swear they're hoping I just hang up and go away already...
Be patient. Be polite. Be clear about what you want them to do.
Hard to tell from your pictures. Did the original installer ever mention using a tripod mount instead of mounting to the deck rails?
No, he never mentioned using a tripod
The guy barely spoke English, so I could hardly understand him anyway
I just know the 1st time I called D*, the guy they sent out told me I wouldn't even be able to get HD because my apartment building is in the way
The guy who ended up doing the install said I could get HD if he pointed the dish just right
HDTVsportsfan
03-08-08, 02:41 PM
I'm still on hold with D*
I asked to speak to a supervisor
I swear they're hoping I just hang up and go away already...
Hang in there RVD26.
Determining LOS is difficult without being there. Take some pictures facing out in the direction the dish is pointing and we'll try to give you some feedback.
Hang in there RVD26.
Determining LOS is difficult without being there. Take some pictures facing out in the direction the dish is pointing and we'll try to give you some feedback.
I won't be able to take more pictures until later today or tomorrow
I was borrowing my GF's camera
I get clear LOS directly south, but my apartment building blocks the SE
I'm still on hold with D*
I asked to speak to a supervisor
I swear they're hoping I just hang up and go away already...
If you don't get anywhere with that supervisor or if they just keep you on hold, hang up and follow what I said about talking with retention. The CSRs in Retention have more experience and more leeway to deal with problems being experienced by a customer.
RobertE
03-08-08, 02:49 PM
That dish should really be on a mount such as this:
https://www.perfect-10.tv/P10WebAx/Pages/Public/StoreDetail.aspx?productID=NPR6A&CategoryID=000044_WC&Search=&Start=1&Stop=20
Thats all we use for apartments.
Tripods could be done, but they have to be attached to something, ie floor.
The bucket & cement has been "banned" for us for anything above the second floor. Story is a bucket with a 18" dish "flipped" over the railing in high winds and smashed the s@#$ out of a car. I've seen the picutres, don't believe the story though.
Anyway, railings just arn't designed for that kind of continuous loading, it needs to be moved.
If you don't get anywhere with that supervisor or if they just keep you on hold, hang up and follow what I said about talking with retention. The CSRs in Retention have more experience and more leeway to deal with problems being experienced by a customer.
I'm not sure the Retention Department will take me seriously on any threat to cancel my service, considering I've only been a customer for about 6 months
What do they call that stuff....Diamond Sheet Steel?
Diamond Plate.
Rich
HDTVsportsfan
03-08-08, 02:56 PM
Saying cancelling at the prompt doesn't automatically mean that you will actually cancel.
Just tell them up front that you are not calling to cancel but just needed to get to that dept. Be polite, articulate, and actually see if you can point them to this thread to see the pictures. Going to retention does not always automatically make them believe you are calling to threat and cancel.
Going to the route of email may better but will take longer.
RobertE
03-08-08, 03:00 PM
My first stop would probably be with "Customer Installation Support" aka CIS. If thats what they still call themselves. Explain to them how the dish is mounted and that its not very secure. Also point out that you think it may have damaged the railing and you are concerned about it falling off and hurting someone or damaging the cars parket below. Let them know what floor your on.
Well, after being on hold forever....the CSR finally told me that they would provide a "one-time courtesy service call" a week from today :)
I'll see what they do and give some of the suggestions y'all provided to the guy that comes over
Thanks to everyone for your help!
HDTVsportsfan
03-08-08, 03:02 PM
Good deal. Glad to see you had some type of positive results. Keep us posted.
davring
03-08-08, 03:04 PM
Well, after being on hold forever....the CSR finally told me that they would provide a "one-time courtesy service call" a week from today :)
I'll see what they do and give some of the suggestions y'all provided to the guy that comes over
Thanks to everyone for your help!
So glad they came around, I figured they would if you contacted the right person, enjoy.
Saying cancelling at the prompt doesn't automatically mean that you will actually cancel.
Just tell them up front that you are not calling to cancel but just needed to get to that dept. Be polite, articulate, and actually see if you can point them to this thread to see the pictures. Going to retention does not always automatically make them believe you are calling to threat and cancel.
Going to the route of email may better but will take longer.
That is absolutely correct. No need to threaten to cancel. HDTVsportsfan provides you with good advice on how to deal with them. Think of Retention as a higher layer of CSRs that really know how to troubleshoot problems for customers. A different name for the department might be better but the reality is that they can really help you...their task is to make sure customers are kept happy so they do not leave DirectTv.
EDIT: Looks like you got it solved while I was typing. Great hear. Good luck.
I'm not sure the Retention Department will take me seriously on any threat to cancel my service, considering I've only been a customer for about 6 months
For the love of God, join the Protection Plan. They're gonna charge you 15 or 20 bucks to join it now and $5.99 a month thereafter. If it loosens up again, they come right out and fix it again. No charge. And if it loosens up again, the PP will send out someone to tighten it up. And so on...
I'm an electrician by trade and I belong to the PP. Of course, I'm terribly lazy, but if it were my dish, I would drill and tap holes in the the vertical bars and screw the bracket right into the railing. Looks like the bracket has holes in the center already. Add the bolts on the bracket and that would hold it really steady. That's what I would do if I didn't belong the the PP.
Rich
HDTVsportsfan
03-08-08, 03:30 PM
Hey Rich....Thanks for the answer previously...about Diamond Plate.
Drilling into the rail may not be an option. The property managers would have a cow if he drilled into anything.
Hey Rich....Thanks for the answer previously...about Diamond Plate.
You're welcome. Have you ever worked with Diamond Plate? Those diamonds get in the way and make a simple job difficult. What you really want is stainless steel stock or steel stock and paint it.
Drilling into the rail may not be an option. The property managers would have a cow if he drilled into anything.
Maybe, but I'd do it. Easy to patch.
Rich
HDTVsportsfan
03-08-08, 04:09 PM
You're welcome. Have you ever worked with Diamond Plate? Those diamonds get in the way and make a simple job difficult. What you really want is stainless steel stock or steel stock and paint it.
Never worked with it before, but do know it's durable and strong.
Maybe, but I'd do it. Easy to patch.
Yeah...In a pinch I probably would as well. Some may not be comfortable doing it however.
I would love to see pictures of the final solution. I will need a very similar setup when I get DirecTV installed here soon. I don't want to go with the pole in the bucket or anything like that as my balcony is very small.
ssmith10pn
03-08-08, 05:58 PM
I see an easy solution for this.
4 pieces of 2x4 about 3 feet long (treated).
qty (6) 3/8" x 5" carriage bolts, washers, and nuts.
remove the dish and all that other stuff.
Place one 2 x 4 on the outside of the railing and one on the inside of the railing horizontal and in line of where your upper mounting holes in your plate would be sandwiching the railing in between the 2 x 4s.
Clamp the 2 x 4s or have a friend hold them while you drill a 3/8" hole for the carrage bolt. Install a carriage bolt in the center and one towards each end.
Repeat this process with the other 2x4s to line up with the lower mounting holes.
Then lag bolt the dish foot to the 2x4s and level mast.
I see an easy solution for this.
4 pieces of 2x4 about 3 feet long (treated).
qty (6) 3/8" x 5" carriage bolts, washers, and nuts.
remove the dish and all that other stuff.
Place one 2 x 4 on the outside of the railing and one on the inside of the railing horizontal and in line of where your upper mounting holes in your plate would be sandwiching the railing in between the 2 x 4s.
Clamp the 2 x 4s or have a friend hold them while you drill a 3/8" hole for the carrage bolt. Install a carriage bolt in the center and one towards each end.
Repeat this process with the other 2x4s to line up with the lower mounting holes.
Then lag bolt the dish foot to the 2x4s and level mast.
This sounds like a great idea
When the guy comes out next week, I'm gonna suggest all these ideas and see what he can do
Unfortunately, I have no idea how to do any of the things y'all are mentioning
You're welcome. Have you ever worked with Diamond Plate? Those diamonds get in the way and make a simple job difficult. What you really want is stainless steel stock or steel stock and paint it......
The "diamonds" are only on one side, so you put those facing each other. I got the sheet metal shop to drill everything while I was there from a paper template: 4 holes in the corners of the plates plus 4 holes for the dish mount bracket corners, skipping the center two holes for the bracket.
The idea is to make this a one-stop solution. The DirecTV installation folks are not going to have anything on hand when they arrive to handle the OP's problem. At least if he gets the two plates and the hardware together and in place between now and then, the installer can assemble everything and re-aim his dish.
Edit: Now that I think back, the "diamonds" are on both sides, and the way I made a flat surface for the dish mounting bracket to rest against was to also have the guy cut me a piece of thin steel exactly the same size and drill everything at the same time. I used "Ph-ospho-ric Plus" to pre-treat the steel plate and then sprayed it with gray primer, same color as the dish.
The whole pile of stuff cost me maybe $40 dollars, including the twenty I slipped the sheet metal guy. He gave me the metal out of the scrap box. The s.s. hardware and the paint was the rest. Looks and works great.
The "diamonds" are only on one side, so you put those facing each other. I got the sheet metal shop to drill everything while I was there from a paper template: 4 holes in the corners of the plates plus 4 holes for the dish mount bracket corners, skipping the center two holes for the bracket.
The idea is to make this a one-stop solution. The DirecTV installation folks are not going to have anything on hand when they arrive to handle the OP's problem. At least if he gets the two plates and the hardware together and in place between now and then, the installer can assemble everything and re-aim his dish.
Please tell me exactly what I need to buy (in simple terms) in order for the installation guy to make the best installation possible
RobertE
03-08-08, 07:44 PM
IMHO, the only way to go is to use the mount I suggested in post #36. Get the contact information for whatever installation company that will be doing the work. Call them and tell them how it's currently mounted and how you want/need it mounted. You may need to get 8 concrete blocks as well. They may or may not supply them.
If you want to go with any other route, feel free. But I truely believe you will continue to have problems. The choice is yours.
BattleZone
03-08-08, 08:45 PM
Okay, from what I can gather from the pics:
There's likely no line-of-site from within the balcony itself, as the dish is facing almost 90 degrees to the left. But I can't confirm this from the pics.
The installer *should* have canceled the original install as a "no-line-of-site." I would have, for several reasons, which are now coming to bear.
Instead, the installer did the best he could with his very limited resources, so he could get the customer the product he wanted. Overall, given the situation, he did a pretty good job.
Without question, this is a NON-STANDARD installation in every way. A standard apartment balcony installation (aside from the cost of the mount) requires the dish to be on a tripod or non-pen mount and no part of the dish extending outside of the balcony. This requirement is for safety and liability. Most apartment complexes do NOT even allow dishes to extend out of the balcony, much less be bolted to the outside. DirecTV does not condone such installations, and they certainly don't provide hardware to make them work.
Given that the complex seems to allow this type of installation, in order for it to be done anywhere close to "right" it's going to require CUSTOM fabrication of a mount. Most DirecTV installers are NOT going to be prepared for or knowledgable enough to begin to deal with such CUSTOM needs. The vast majority are, at best, prepared to do exactly what the original tech did; no more. Expecting any further work on the existing mounting setup by DirecTV is unrealistic, IMO.
Were I hired to get this job done right, I would probably use two lengths of 2x10 lumber about 4' long, with holes drilled between each set of rungs for 5/16" bolts, using large washers on each side. I would bolt the mast foot to one board, then bolt the board to the outside of the rail, with the second board on the inside, creating a long clamp. I would bolt the two support arms for the mast (which weren't used here because there was no where to attach them) to the far ends of the outside board, which would add the stability needed for the dish.
Had I done the original install (i.e., if I was already there), I'd charge $75. As a separate trip, it would be $125. For that money, the customer would have a dish that was mounted rock-solid with no signal loss, and the dish would be FAR more secure and safe to the people below.
Again, this is all NON-STANDARD, and far beyond what anyone could expect from an in-house tech at any price, much less as part of the "free standard (read: basic) installation."
Of course, if Line-Of-Site is available from the balcony itself, then the better solution would be a tripod with custom pole for the 5-LNB dish, or the non-pen mount. Both of which are chargable to the customer.
ssmith10pn
03-08-08, 09:12 PM
My thoughts exactly. Only reason I suggested 2x4s is because they are easier for a do it yourselfer to cut. ;)
litzdog911
03-08-08, 10:53 PM
Please tell me exactly what I need to buy (in simple terms) in order for the installation guy to make the best installation possible
Probably easier if you ask a friend/neighbor that's handy with woodworking and tools. But as pointed out here, this would be considered a non-standard installation and you might have to pay a bit extra, even if you build the mounting stuff yourself. The mount referred to earlier is the best way to go, provided you have line-of-site from inside your balcony.
Two pieces of wood, two pieces of metal - either way you're making a clamp on the balcony rails. The wood is perhaps more easily obtainable from a local home improvement store than finding a sheet metal shop in west Houston, but either way, that's what you're going to need to do to keep using that dish in its current location.
If you use wood, it should be pressure-treated. I'm not sure why they need to be 4' long pieces, as long as you span at least two verticals of the railing instead of the one you're now using. I just prefer the metal myself, since when you're done, it looks like a manufactured part of the dish mount from the street instead of something you cobbled together. If you use wood, you could always spray paint it to match the balcony paint to improve the appearance.
Wood is probably the easiest and fastest, since you can get everything you need at Lowe's or the Homeless Depot. They'll even saw the wood for you. Then you just need to drill it and paint it. No big deal.
When considering the size of the clamping members, whatever material you use, you'll need to consider where the bolts from the dish mount bracket pass through with respect to the spacing of the vertical components of the railing. Judging from the pictures, you'll probably need to span three verticals, since it doesn't look like all four dish bracket holes will fit between two verticals.
You're fortunate if you're able to use an over-hanging balcony installation without objection. Otherwise you'll have to use one of the on-balcony solutions others have suggested, with possible LOS problems and the loss of balcony space.
armophob
03-09-08, 01:06 AM
But the thing is, it was pretty secure before
It's just that there was a lot of wind the other day and now it's loose
I would hate to put it in a bucket, it looks so ugly
The welds on that railing eventually will fail and you will have a liability issue that may or may not be saved by the cables connected to it.
I am very surprised that management has not complained yet.
armophob
03-09-08, 01:11 AM
I would take it off of the rail all together. Maybe a non penetrating mount like a tripod or the infamous cement in a bucket routine.
Agreed. If it were me, I would do either method. But due to the obvious near 90deg sight angle, I would assemble it through the railing. In other words, run the arm through the railing then set the dish on it. Might need a larger bucket to compensate for the center of balance issue. Maybe a elongated washtub of concrete.
Never worked with it before, but do know it's durable and strong.
It is durable and strong. I believe Diamond Plate is meant for walkways in industrial plants. Looks good as a toolbox too. Not something you want to work with tho.
Yeah...In a pinch I probably would as well. Some may not be comfortable doing it however.
As long as you patch up any holes when vacating an apartment, you should be OK. Unless the landlord or manager hates you. Tipping on holidays is a good way to stay friendly with them. I've talked to people who have been charged for damages after leaving apartment complexes and asked them if they patched all the holes they made and tipped the managers at holiday time. They did neither. Seems so simple...
Rich
The "diamonds" are only on one side, so you put those facing each other. I got the sheet metal shop to drill everything while I was there from a paper template: 4 holes in the corners of the plates plus 4 holes for the dish mount bracket corners, skipping the center two holes for the bracket.
The idea is to make this a one-stop solution. The DirecTV installation folks are not going to have anything on hand when they arrive to handle the OP's problem. At least if he gets the two plates and the hardware together and in place between now and then, the installer can assemble everything and re-aim his dish.
[quote]Edit: Now that I think back, the "diamonds" are on both sides
We only used it for flooring on metal structures. The diamonds were on one side. I would imagine it comes both ways.
and the way I made a flat surface for the dish mounting bracket to rest against was to also have the guy cut me a piece of thin steel exactly the same size and drill everything at the same time. I used "Ph-ospho-ric Plus" to pre-treat the steel plate and then sprayed it with gray primer, same color as the dish.
The whole pile of stuff cost me maybe $40 dollars, including the twenty I slipped the sheet metal guy. He gave me the metal out of the scrap box. The s.s. hardware and the paint was the rest. Looks and works great.
This is kind of fun, but the OP said he wasn't handy and wanted a simple solution. We're gonna end up building a destroyer at this rate. Simplest way out for people who aren't handy is the Protection Plan.
Speaking of destroyers, the one I was on had rubber diamond plate strips on the floors of all electrical or electronic spaces. Came in a big role about three feet wide and we just cut it to fit. But, I digress...
Rich
Please tell me exactly what I need to buy (in simple terms) in order for the installation guy to make the best installation possible
Would you please read post #45 and consider that? You can't solve your problem any simpler than that.
Rich
Would you please read post #45 and consider that? You can't solve your problem any simpler than that.
Rich
Sorry, but I don't believe in pumping even more money into their pockets for something they should have gotten right in the first place
It's bad enough they're jacking up my rate, which is something I thought I was done with after leaving the cable company here
Can I get a final consensus from y'all as to how the dish should be installed?
They all seem like good ideas, but I obviously can't use them all
I like the suggestion in post 36 of buying a non penetrating mount
However, it's not available for sale to the general public through the website listed
litzdog911
03-09-08, 07:17 PM
Sorry, but I don't believe in pumping even more money into their pockets for something they should have gotten right in the first place
It's bad enough they're jacking up my rate, which is something I thought I was done with after leaving the cable company here
Can I get a final consensus from y'all as to how the dish should be installed?
They all seem like good ideas, but I obviously can't use them all
I like the suggestion in post 36 of buying a non penetrating mount
However, it's not available for sale to the general public through the website listed
I doubt that you'll get a concensus here. Personally, I like the wood 2x4 suggestion posted in message #50 here ....
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1491334&postcount=50
The normal approach in your situation on a balcony would be a tripod mount, and I'm not sure most DirecTV installers would even provide that for free. But a tripod mount might not work in your situation if the dish has to extend too far beyond your balcony railing. So you should be willing to work with the installer and consider paying extra for this installation. Or, if you're truly unwilling to do that, find a friend/neighbor that can prepare the site with a suitable mounting scheme before the installer arrives.
armophob
03-10-08, 12:04 AM
Can you unbolt it and grab two uprights with the outer edges of the foot. making the bolts fall inside?
Measure outside to outside and inside to inside on the bolts and railing uprights.
litzdog911
03-10-08, 12:44 AM
Can you unbolt it and grab two uprights with the outer edges of the foot. making the bolts fall inside?
Measure outside to outside and inside to inside on the bolts and railing uprights.
I wondered the same thing. But it looks like the rails are too far apart.
BattleZone
03-10-08, 02:38 PM
I'm not sure why they need to be 4' long pieces, as long as you span at least two verticals of the railing instead of the one you're now using.
The reason for that length is to accomidate the missing support arms, which extend 18-20" on each side of the mast.
Doing some quick measurements on the image it looks like the bolts would not fit between 2 of the bars. If you could drill them it would probably be possible to mount through them.
I definitely agree that this type of mounting isn't likely to be stable for any longer term solution. I wouldn't expect an installer to have the materials on hand to be able to mount this reasonably. You'll probably need some sort of clamping mechanism like people have described and wood is going to be the easiest option for someone who doesn't have a lot of tools or experience.
Never worked with it before, but do know it's durable and strong.
While watching a rerun of CSI Miami, titled "Nailed", I saw a contractor's trailer with a diamond plate floor. Seemed to be metal. Can't really tell.
Rich
MONSTERMAN
03-10-08, 05:34 PM
Yep I used to have something similar years ago, but my apartment manager eventually said I had to take it down. I can't tell by your fourth picture if you have another opening on your balcony to the left. If you do, I would definitely get a metal tripod sold on ebay for about $30 and then mount it on the balcony floor with just three screws. This is what I did years ago when I had no other options b/c my apt building said satellite dishes can't be visible from exterior.
:nono2:
curt8403
03-10-08, 06:38 PM
I had my Slimline dish installed last September and for a while everything was fine.
That is, until the first big storm came through.
Ever since then my dish has been wobbly where the arm meets the railing.
The dish itself (the "bowl") is pretty secure that's not much of an issue
It's really where the arm and the railing meet
I called D*, but they want to charge me $80 to send a guy out for an install that should have been done right the first time :rolleyes:
So I'm wondering if some of you handy guys can give me some advice on securing my dish (it tends to move right to left) where the arm is
I am far from handy so please explain everything to me in very simple terms
Thanks in advance to everyone
I've attached a few pics below of my setup.
http://i25.tinypic.com/5709t.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/34rewib.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/zl2ogp.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/wqsfud.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/96j0oo.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/4ucsa9.jpg
you should have a plate wide enough to cover 2 or 3 of the pickets or up and down rail things. Make that 2 plates and then mount what is there on the plate. or go tripod or bucket
Can you unbolt it and grab two uprights with the outer edges of the foot. making the bolts fall inside?
Measure outside to outside and inside to inside on the bolts and railing uprights.
I like the idea of you illustrating your point using my picture
Could you do the same to illustrate how I could use wood (or sheet metal) to make it more secure?
you should have a plate wide enough to cover 2 or 3 of the pickets or up and down rail things. Make that 2 plates and then mount what is there on the plate. or go tripod or bucket
Do installation guys have plates that come that wide?
That seems like the simplest solution
Would I be able to get in contact with the guy before he comes this weekend?
HDTVsportsfan
03-10-08, 07:31 PM
RVD26, I would be surprised if the installer has the plates. This would be considered a true custom job. IIRC most of the installers don't know where there calls are until the night before.
Describing your situation over the phone is near impossible. He would have to come out an re-evaluate.
Canis Lupus
03-10-08, 07:40 PM
Go with cement in a whiskey barrel and plant some nice flowers in there.
Coffey77
03-10-08, 07:44 PM
What if you got 2 - 2x6s or 2x 12s even and put one on the outside of the rail and then one on the inside and bolted them together with either lag bolts or even straight 5/16 or 3/8 bolts through - sandwitch the railing vertically using two or more of the vertical slots. You could even put the pieces horzontal somehow, if it looks alright. That would then give him / the installer a sturdy place to mount the dish. That way, it can be removed from the railing at any time. I'd get treated lumber and paint it black..
Sorry if this has been mentioned, I didn't read through the whole Thread. :)
RobertE
03-10-08, 07:46 PM
There is zero chance that a HSP installer will have the materials needed to fix this. The only thing that they may have would be the non-pen mount. But given the angle your pointed at, I'm not sure even that would work.
IMHO, if it must be mounted to the railing, you'll always have trouble. That railing is not designed to handle the stresses that the dish will apply during heavy wind loads. The railing will fail, you will lose your dish, cause property damage and quite possibly hurt or kill someone.
One final option, have you checked with your apt mgt to see if you could put it on a pole in the ground or up on the roof somewhere? It looks like your on the 2nd or 3rd floor right?
Sorry to say, do it right & safe, or don't do it all and switch to a non sat provider.
HDTVsportsfan
03-10-08, 07:48 PM
Nice suggestion Andy, but he doesn't feel comfortable doing much of the hands on stuff. I can appreciate that.
However, that rail doesn't exactly look like the strongest mounting surface in the world.
For safety reasons, i would seriously consider taking it off that rail altogether.
OK...RobertE beat me to that last one.
Coffey77
03-10-08, 07:54 PM
I was thinking that too, RobertE. It still might sway a bit but I think if you wedge it up in the corner there by the post, it should help stabilize it from wind. You could use a 4x4 on the outside or double up the 2x6 to get you out a bit further but I think everyone, including myself is worried about the new satellites that are a bit farther to the "left"...
armophob
03-10-08, 07:57 PM
Eventually his mngt is going to call him on it. It is just a matter of ascetics with them. I would not put too much extra money into the effort.
RobertE
03-10-08, 08:04 PM
I was thinking that too, RobertE. It still might sway a bit but I think if you wedge it up in the corner there by the post, it should help stabilize it from wind. You could use a 4x4 on the outside or double up the 2x6 to get you out a bit further but I think everyone, including myself is worried about the new satellites that are a bit farther to the "left"...
Looking again at this pic:
http://i28.tinypic.com/wqsfud.jpg
Looking at the apts accross the way, there isn't a whole lot of balcony there. Most likely there are two maybe four lags on each end and probably two lags on the center post. I wouldn't trust that to hold up.
Also, as armophob points out, the management probably won't be too keen on the idea for all sorts of 2x whatevers bolted/strapped to the railing. Given the looks of the place, surprised they haven't thrown a fit about it as it is.
Coffey77
03-10-08, 08:10 PM
Looking again at this pic:
http://i28.tinypic.com/wqsfud.jpg
Looking at the apts accross the way, there isn't a whole lot of balcony there. Most likely there are two maybe four lags on each end and probably two lags on the center post. I wouldn't trust that to hold up.
Also, as armophob points out, the management probably won't be too keen on the idea for all sorts of 2x whatevers bolted/strapped to the railing. Given the looks of the place, surprised they haven't thrown a fit about it as it is.
Very good point and point out... I've dealt with these railings before and didn't think about it as I was posting. It will eventually shake itself loose on those side bolts and the whole railing will eventually become unstable. I doubt there's much holding it, like you said.
I agree with the others, It's going to take a call to MGMT and see what options they have. Don't get angry with them right away, see if you can discuss options first before the first "stones" are cast. ;)
Very good point and point out... I've dealt with these railings before and didn't think about it as I was posting. It will eventually shake itself loose on those side bolts and the whole railing will eventually become unstable. I doubt there's much holding it, like you said.
I agree with the others, It's going to take a call to MGMT and see what options they have. Don't get angry with them right away, see if you can discuss options first before the first "stones" are cast. ;)
Several other tenants in my complex have their dishes set up in a similar fashion and management has not complained at all.
They even did "inspections" a few months ago and everything checked out fine.
I've already talked with the manager and putting the dish on the roof or on the 1st floor (I'm on the 3rd floor, which is the top floor) is NOT an option.
I think I'll just have to use the suggestion some of you had of using wood to clamp it tighter
I just need an illustration or something so I know what to go out and buy and show to the installer
RobertE
03-10-08, 08:49 PM
If thats the route you want/need to go...
A 2x6
http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12758&stc=1&d=1205200105
The installer should be able to drill holes in it or use lag bolts to secure two together. They should be 2 to 3 feet long to provide more support.
Coffey77
03-10-08, 09:10 PM
Have Home Depot or Lowes or your local hardware store cut them down to about 2-3' lengths, (as RobertE has there by his feet) you'll need 2 of them. Get 3-4 lag bolts - 5/16 I believe with a lock nut and a fender washer for each... The installer should drill a hole for each lag on one of the boards only, just a tad larger than the diameter of the lag bolt. This will give it a tighter grip when you sandwitch them. If you/the installer do the lags from your porch you won't be able to see them from the street so the bolts will need to be less than the width of the two boards - which will be around 3". A 2 1/2" bolt will probably do the trick but check to make sure.
wildbill129
03-10-08, 09:17 PM
I looked at your pictures, and all I can say is yikes. On that end that railing is held in place by two lag bolts, I would hope they are through the stucco and well into the framing. The middle of that railing will flex, especially with that kind of load. I wouldn't mount a dish that heavy to that kind of railing. (I used to build houses, I have some expertise behind my opinion) The four 2x6 solution will secure the dish to the railing nicely. What's going to fail is that top bolt a foot or so from the mount. It may not fail for months or even years, but one severe wind storm.......see ya........
Personally, I would get the non-penetrating mount. Best $60.00 bucks you will ever spend.......here is a link where you can buy them:
http://search.solidsignal.com/?all=u1&i=1&q=non+penetrating+mount&site=com&u1=q
RobertE
03-10-08, 09:20 PM
I wonder if an under eve mount would work? It would get the dish off the railing and still get it outside the balcony to get a line of sight.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=KAUEM1
Only instead of under the eve, I'd put it on the wall next to where the railing is now. Might still need a 2x6 attached to the wall, then the mount to it.
wildbill129
03-10-08, 09:45 PM
I wonder if an under eve mount would work? It would get the dish off the railing and still get it outside the balcony to get a line of sight.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=KAUEM1
Only instead of under the eve, I'd put it on the wall next to where the railing is now. Might still need a 2x6 attached to the wall, then the mount to it.
Yah, that would definately work better.....but I am guessing the apartment management wouldn't be too happy about holes drilled in their wall........
litzdog911
03-11-08, 01:05 AM
Several other tenants in my complex have their dishes set up in a similar fashion and management has not complained at all.
They even did "inspections" a few months ago and everything checked out fine.
I've already talked with the manager and putting the dish on the roof or on the 1st floor (I'm on the 3rd floor, which is the top floor) is NOT an option.
I think I'll just have to use the suggestion some of you had of using wood to clamp it tighter
I just need an illustration or something so I know what to go out and buy and show to the installer
You should take a close look at their dish mount installations. Perhaps one of them can help you fashion a suitable mount for your dish. Don't expect the typical installer to do it for you.
I wonder if an under eve mount would work? It would get the dish off the railing and still get it outside the balcony to get a line of sight.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=KAUEM1
Only instead of under the eve, I'd put it on the wall next to where the railing is now. Might still need a 2x6 attached to the wall, then the mount to it.
Hi Bob,
What would work is having someone who knows how to mount equipment properly come out and fix his problem.
I just saw a post about tripods for sale on eBay that can be mounted on the concrete deck. I have mounted many really heavy xformers on walls and floors and always used lead cinch anchors. They will NOT pull out if installed properly and will secure the tripod firmly.
Then it comes down to whether the tripod is strong enough to withstand the wind. If four cinch anchors will hold a three hundred pound xformer firmly on a wall, three will not move on a deck All you need is a three eighths carballoy drill bit, three cinch anchors and the anchor driver and a hammer. Ever use lead cinch anchors?
Rich
I wonder if an under eve mount would work? It would get the dish off the railing and still get it outside the balcony to get a line of sight.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=KAUEM1
Only instead of under the eve, I'd put it on the wall next to where the railing is now. Might still need a 2x6 attached to the wall, then the mount to it.
Just looked at that link. Never heard of a non-penetrating roof mount before. Rather amazing what some people will sell. That under eave mount does look easy.
Rich
RobertE
03-11-08, 04:35 PM
Hi Bob,
What would work is having someone who knows how to mount equipment properly come out and fix his problem.
I just saw a post about tripods for sale on eBay that can be mounted on the concrete deck. I have mounted many really heavy xformers on walls and floors and always used lead cinch anchors. They will NOT pull out if installed properly and will secure the tripod firmly.
Then it comes down to whether the tripod is strong enough to withstand the wind. If four cinch anchors will hold a three hundred pound xformer firmly on a wall, three will not move on a deck All you need is a three eighths carballoy drill bit, three cinch anchors and the anchor driver and a hammer. Ever use lead cinch anchors?
Rich
Unfortunately for the OP, he got what he paid for with the "free" HSP service. Sure they will try to fix things, they may even get it working....for now. Bottom line is, with the current pay & skillsets, a HSP tech won't be able to fix it properly. He certainly isn't going to get it fixed properly for free. Getting it off the railing would be my first priority.
Unfortunately for the OP, he got what he paid for with the "free" HSP service. Sure they will try to fix things, they may even get it working....for now. Bottom line is, with the current pay & skillsets, a HSP tech won't be able to fix it properly. He certainly isn't going to get it fixed properly for free. Getting it off the railing would be my first priority.
Since he's on the third floor, he's gonna need help to install the eave mount. I think you're correct about the eave mount. Easiest way to go. Did you notice the grounding lug on the rail? Shame that apartment complexes don't allow dishes on the roofs.
Rich
I got a call today from the installation company KLH (or something like that) to confirm their visit this weekend.
I mentioned to the lady making the call, some of the suggestions here.
She said someone would call me back to discuss it.
So what should I tell them when they call back, so they will fully understand what I am talking about?
On another note, I took a little drive through my apartment complex and looked closely at all the other dishes mounted in the complex.
They all appear to be mounted in the same way as mine.
One had a plate that covered two of the bars in the rail (mine only covers one), though.
If they have a plate that covers two or more of the bars, that would be ideal, right?
litzdog911
03-12-08, 06:50 PM
I got a call today from the installation company KLH (or something like that) to confirm their visit this weekend.
I mentioned to the lady making the call, some of the suggestions here.
She said someone would call me back to discuss it.
So what should I tell them when they call back, so they will fully understand what I am talking about?
On another note, I took a little drive through my apartment complex and looked closely at all the other dishes mounted in the complex.
They all appear to be mounted in the same way as mine.
One had a plate that covered two of the bars in the rail (mine only covers one), though.
If they have a plate that covers two or more of the bars, that would be ideal, right?
Review the suggestions here and you should have enough ammo to discuss with the installation company. I still think your best bet is to have something suitable prepared before the installer arrives, because odds are that even with up-front communication the actually onsite installer will be puzzled.
And yes, a metal plate that spans two or more rails would work MUCH better. You might want to check with some of those neighbors to see who installed their dish.
Review the suggestions here and you should have enough ammo to discuss with the installation company. I still think your best bet is to have something suitable prepared before the installer arrives, because odds are that even with up-front communication the actually onsite installer will be puzzled.
And yes, a metal plate that spans two or more rails would work MUCH better. You might want to check with some of those neighbors to see who installed their dish.
That was actually DISH Network that did the installation, LOL
armophob
03-12-08, 07:38 PM
If they have a plate that covers two or more of the bars, that would be ideal, right?
Did you take those measurements in the pic I sent?
Ironwood43364
03-13-08, 01:10 AM
To be honest with you, with your east facing balcony the install shouldnt have been done. I only say that because you may be loosing your line of site to the 99 sat. The tech should have used a short and long monopole ( they are used to further secure the dish) The post and concrete will not work you will not be able to get line of site to any of the sat's. I suggest that you suck it up and get the protection plan only cost's you $5 month and you can cancel at any time. Then set up your service call. Request that the tech bring out a (S) mount for a Ka Ku dish and the monopoles....
rsteinfe
03-13-08, 07:44 AM
But the thing is, it was pretty secure before
It's just that there was a lot of wind the other day and now it's loose
Just finished reading all the posts to this thread, and it occurred to me that everyone immediately put on their engineering hats, and provided some neat solutions. But, was the simplest solution overlooked.
OP says dish was secure, then loosened after wind storm. What changed? If the railing is still secure, the mounting bracket must have worked loose from buffeting in the storm. OP says he's not very handy, so I'm wondering if he ever applied a wrench to the nuts on the mount and tightened them. Could it be possible that simply tightening the mount, and having the tech brace the dish with a monopole also connected to the railing will solve his problem and keep him away from the custom$$ install which might be required if the tech needs to fabricate a non-standard mounting method? Just wondering...
BattleZone
03-13-08, 04:32 PM
Just finished reading all the posts to this thread, and it occurred to me that everyone immediately put on their engineering hats, and provided some neat solutions. But, was the simplest solution overlooked.
OP says dish was secure, then loosened after wind storm. What changed?
Most of the experienced installers who saw the pics immediately recognized that the 5-LNB dish is too large, too heavy, and has too much wind load to work with the mounting solution used, no matter how much you tighten those bolts. There just isn't enough strength there with the very minimal amount of surface area between the mast foot and the railings. The solutions being offered spread the load across much more of the railing surface, which is the only thing that will really work in the long term and not require drilling or other mods to the rails.
Still, someone correctly pointed out that the entire railing it secured with only one lag bolt on each end, which is still a potential area of liability. The mount I suggested would ensure the dish never moved on the railing, but not that the entire railing wouldn't get ripped off the building in high winds. That's why I started off by saying that this system should never have been installed to begin with if the rail mount was the only way line-of-site could be achieved. IMO, the OP is taking considerable risk having the dish installed on the railing, no matter how that's done.
rsteinfe
03-13-08, 05:16 PM
.... this system should never have been installed to begin with if the rail mount was the only way line-of-site could be achieved. IMO, the OP is taking considerable risk having the dish installed on the railing, no matter how that's done.
I absolutely agree. I was simply trying to propose a possible solution which might satisfy the OP's oft-stated constraint that he doesn't want to spend more money on the installation.
It does not appear that he has the skills to construct a proper mount, or to realign the dish if he could get a friend to construct the mount for him. He does have a tech coming, but unless everything is cut and ready, I doubt the tech will see fabrication of a better mount as a no-cost option.
All that being said, I think that he has two realistic choices:
1) Spend the bucks to have someone do a well-constructed mount of the type you suggested, or
2) Make sure he has a big liability umbrella policy. (Realistically, even if he does #1 he should do #2 if he's relying on that railing.)
Like living in the Black Forest surrounded by trees. this is a case where cable might have made real sense, but I'll bet D* isn't going to let him out of his contract at this point.
Did you take those measurements in the pic I sent?
Not yet
I will do so later on tonight or tommorrow
The install isn't until Saturday
To be honest with you, with your east facing balcony the install shouldnt have been done. I only say that because you may be loosing your line of site to the 99 sat. The tech should have used a short and long monopole ( they are used to further secure the dish) The post and concrete will not work you will not be able to get line of site to any of the sat's. I suggest that you suck it up and get the protection plan only cost's you $5 month and you can cancel at any time. Then set up your service call. Request that the tech bring out a (S) mount for a Ka Ku dish and the monopoles....
My balcony actually faces west
I stated in a previous post that D* has agreed to send out a technician free of cost for just this one time only
I will call them and suggest they bring those items out
Just finished reading all the posts to this thread, and it occurred to me that everyone immediately put on their engineering hats, and provided some neat solutions. But, was the simplest solution overlooked.
OP says dish was secure, then loosened after wind storm. What changed? If the railing is still secure, the mounting bracket must have worked loose from buffeting in the storm. OP says he's not very handy, so I'm wondering if he ever applied a wrench to the nuts on the mount and tightened them. Could it be possible that simply tightening the mount, and having the tech brace the dish with a monopole also connected to the railing will solve his problem and keep him away from the custom$$ install which might be required if the tech needs to fabricate a non-standard mounting method? Just wondering...
Thank you!
This seems like the best and simplest solution.
Like I said before, it was pretty secure in the beginning
It's just that it got loose from some really strong wind (40mph)
The railing itself is pretty secure
It's possible that the screws and nuts just need tightening along with a monopole
I will definitely suggest that they bring one out
Thank you again
RobertE
03-14-08, 08:29 AM
That was actually DISH Network that did the installation, LOL
The only dish in Dish'es lineup that comes close in size and weight is the SuperDish. Everything else is considerable smaller (less wind load) and lighter. They will be able to stand up better in the winds.
The common failure points on a rail mount such as yours is either the attachment point (as you have found) or a failure of the rail itself.
With a basic dish, the weight and wind loading are small and generally not a factor if done properly. The problem with using the two feet as was done with yours is, they will bend over time under the stress of weight/wind. See in you pic how the foot on the inside of the railing is spreading apart? That will continue to happen. Sure you can tighten down the bolts, that will fix it for a while, but the problem will return. It will reach a point where you have no more bolt to tighten.
That brings us to point #2. Something will eventually fail with the slimline. It will either be the vertical railing or the attachment points where the entire railing attaches to the structure. Something will give, it's not a matter of if, its a matter of when.
There are options out there. One just needs to be a little creative and be prepared to pay for the materials. What needs to be done falls outside the standard "free" install.
jaguar325
03-14-08, 10:09 AM
I agree with litzdog911's original idea.. you need to span a few (3-4) rails and get as close to one side as possible (where it anchors to the exterior wall). That will give you as much strength as the railing can provide.
Then, judging from your pictures, you need to cut some wood. If you are not handy or don't own a saw, buy some beer and smoothtalk a friend into doing it for you. If you don't have anybody to help you, go to Home Depot. You can get wood cut for free (take measurements before you go). The reason for the wood is to cut down on the side-to-side flexing. From the pic of your current mount, it looks to me like the brackets were secure at one time but have loosened up. Chances are pretty good that the reason this mount has loosened is that the bolts holding the two halves of the mounting bracket are suspended in air and the only thing preventing side-to-side flex is the pressure on the single rail that is sandwiched between them. The cross bar at the top does not appear to be doing that job. So, like some other posts have said, you can get two pieces of plywood, probably 3/4" (pressure treated since this is outside) that go on either side of the railing and span at lest 3 rails. You can hold them together with U-bolts. Then, use lag bolts to secure the base mount to the outside piece of plywood. If you want it to be really strong, double-up two pieces of plywood on the outside or use pressure treated "2-by" lumber. If you don't want to have to use more than one piece on each side (because the mount is going to require something wider than a 2x4), look for the widest stock available (you ought to be able to buy at least 2x10 pressure treated lumber).
If I had to do this, I think wood might actually be more stable than trying to cover this span with sheet metal. Plus, wood's going to be a whole lot easier to cut and drill.
Good luck.
wildbill129
03-14-08, 11:32 AM
That brings us to point #2. Something will eventually fail with the slimline. It will either be the vertical railing or the attachment points where the entire railing attaches to the structure. Something will give, it's not a matter of if, its a matter of when.
EXACTLY, all the beefing up of the railing mount will not resolve this problem. That single lag bolt from the to of the railing to the post, the spot welds on the railing, or the metal railing itself are not designed to have that kind of cantilever load. It is destined for an expensive failure.....
Tripod, post in a bucket of concrete, non-pen roof mount, is the ONLY way to go....
The installer just called to confirm the appointment and guess what....
It's the SAME FREAKING GUY from the first time! :nono2:
I instantly recognized his voice
So what should I tell him so he actually gets it this time and does it right?
litzdog911
03-15-08, 11:34 AM
The installer just called to confirm the appointment and guess what....
It's the SAME FREAKING GUY from the first time! :nono2:
I instantly recognized his voice
So what should I tell him so he actually gets it this time and does it right?
Just relay the information you've learned here.
I told him about getting a wider plate, but he claims there are none that he knows of
I also mentioned getting wood and he said that could help, but that my service call wouldn't cover that
He tightened a couple of the bolts so it's sturdier now where the plate meets the rail
He's still outside
litzdog911
03-15-08, 11:48 AM
I told him about getting a wider plate, but he claims there are none that he knows of
I also mentioned getting wood and he said that could help, but that my service call wouldn't cover that
He tightened a couple of the bolts so it's sturdier now where the plate meets the rail
He's still outside
As you've learned here, tightening the bolts is only a short term fix. They'll come loose again. Perhaps you can go show him some of the neighbor's installations, or show him some of the suggestions in this thread.
He's correct that what you need is NOT covered in the normal free installation, so offer to pay him extra to make it right!
Well he's gone now
He tightened the bolts and it seems pretty secure now
I guess September till now (6 months) isn't too short a period for things to come loose
I need to head to Home Depot or somewhere and get a power drill like the guy had
litzdog911
03-15-08, 12:20 PM
Well he's gone now
He tightened the bolts and it seems pretty secure now
I guess September till now (6 months) isn't too short a period for things to come loose
I need to head to Home Depot or somewhere and get a power drill like the guy had
Well, good luck.
You might want to add the Equipment Protection Plan to your account now, because you'll need more dish "maintenance" in a few months.
EXACTLY, all the beefing up of the railing mount will not resolve this problem. That single lag bolt from the to of the railing to the post, the spot welds on the railing, or the metal railing itself are not designed to have that kind of cantilever load. It is destined for an expensive failure.....
Yup.
non-pen roof mount
What is a non-penetrating roof mount? I've seen web sites that sell them. I think there's a link to one on this thread. You must have to have a flat roof to use them, no? You can't put something like that on a sloped roof without penetrating the roof. Do you know how they work? I saw one on that site that suggested using cinder blocks for "ballast". The site gave no installation details.
He's on the third floor of an apartment complex. You'd need a bucket truck to safely get up on that roof and do any work. Seems like the big pot would be the easiest for him to do. Couple bags of that cement you just pour in the pot with water and it sets up in minutes.
Tell me about the non-penetrating roof mounts, please.
Rich
RobertE
03-15-08, 01:45 PM
A non pen roof mount is baiscly a frame made out of angle iron. The NPR6A comes with a 2" & 1 5/8" OD mast. Uses 8 cinder blocks to hold it in place. Four on each side. Works great on flat roofs, commerical installations, patios & balconies.
A non pen roof mount is baiscly a frame made out of angle iron. The NPR6A comes with a 2" & 1 5/8" OD mast. Uses 8 cinder blocks to hold it in place. Four on each side. Works great on flat roofs, commerical installations, patios & balconies.
Figured that. Thanx. Most flat roofs have a "membrane" that seals the roof. ANY penetration becomes a nightmare. Wonder how many people try to mount them on sloping roofs?
Rich
houskamp
03-15-08, 02:04 PM
there is one listed that fits on the peak of a roof..
Well, good luck.
You might want to add the Equipment Protection Plan to your account now, because you'll need more dish "maintenance" in a few months.
Thank you! Ahh, Vindication.
Rich
there is one listed that fits on the peak of a roof..
That's easy to imagine. The "non-penetrating" one really puzzled me.
Rich
Well he's gone now
He tightened the bolts and it seems pretty secure now
I guess September till now (6 months) isn't too short a period for things to come loose
I need to head to Home Depot or somewhere and get a power drill like the guy had
When you go to the Home Depot, get a couple nuts the same size as the threads on the bracket bolts. Put the new nuts on the threaded bolt and snug them up to the existing nuts. That will at least keep the original nuts where they are now. Put a lock washer between them and they will stay right where they are now. Or you could ask for a "lock nut". Buy a couple sizes. Quarter inch and three eighths of an inch and maybe five eighths ought to do it.
Rich
When you go to the Home Depot, get a couple nuts the same size as the threads on the bracket bolts. Put the new nuts on the threaded bolt and snug them up to the existing nuts. That will at least keep the original nuts where they are now. Put a lock washer between them and they will stay right where they are now. Or you could ask for a "lock nut". Buy a couple sizes. Quarter inch and three eighths of an inch and maybe five eighths ought to do it.
Rich
So just buy 1/4", 3/8" and 5/8" lock nuts and use the one that fits to further secure the bolts?
No need for the lock washers or other nuts?
So just buy 1/4", 3/8" and 5/8" lock nuts and use the one that fits to further secure the bolts?
No need for the lock washers or other nuts?
Nope, just make sure you don't take either of the existing nuts off and snug the lock nuts up to the existing nuts. A good lock nut will look like a nut with a plastic sleeve.
Use an open end or a box end wrench of the proper size to put the lock nuts on.
Rich
Nope, just make sure you don't take either of the existing nuts off and snug the lock nuts up to the existing nuts. A good lock nut will look like a nut with a plastic sleeve.
Use an open end or a box end wrench of the proper size to put the lock nuts on.
Rich
Should the lock nut look something like this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nylon_Lock_Nut.png
thomas_d92
03-15-08, 03:40 PM
If you know someone with a portable welder you could plum the arm and tighten the bolts recheck for plum and tack weld the mount to the rail. You can lightly tack weld it incase you wish to remove it in the future.
RobertE
03-15-08, 03:54 PM
:nono2:
Oh well, I tried.
Over/under of returning 771 errors is 45 days. :(
litzdog911
03-15-08, 05:34 PM
:nono2:
Oh well, I tried.
Over/under of returning 771 errors is 45 days. :(
Or until the next windy day :)
Should the lock nut look something like this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nylon_Lock_Nut.png
Exactly.
Rich
:nono2:
Oh well, I tried.
Over/under of returning 771 errors is 45 days. :(
Yup. I agree. A mechanic in any craft would have secured that by now. But he did say he wasn't handy and then he was deluged with many different scenarios that would only make sense to someone mechanically inclined. Imagine how confused he must be. Imagine what he would have gone thru trying to install the dish using the eave mount? And that was the method that made the most sense to me. As long as you have access to a cherry picker of some sort.
And you have to admit, if the installer would have done the job right in the first place, this whole thread wouldn't exist. And I would have never learned about non-penetrating dish mounts.
The really unfortunate thing is that there is no easy fix for the OP's problem.
Rich
Or until the next windy day :)
Oh yeah, Bob is way off with the 45 day WAG. You're exactly right. First windy day, and I bet the wind whips in all kinds of directions in those complexes.
Rich
:) His "40 mph winds" are background static around here. We get 60+ mph gusts regularly during your average good summer thunder storm. Instantaneous wind "puffs," which can only be measured by inference, exceed the measured wind "gusts" by a healthy percentage....
$50 or a $100 + that guy's name and personal phone number would go along way toward rectifying this situation for the non-mechanically inclined.
:) His "40 mph winds" are background static around here. We get 60+ mph gusts regularly during your average good summer thunder storm. Instantaneous wind "puffs," which can only be measured by inference, exceed the measured wind "gusts" by a healthy percentage....
Interesting place, Florida. Just the weather is enough to make you wonder if man was truly meant to inhabit it.
$50 or a $100 + that guy's name and personal phone number would go along way toward rectifying this situation for the non-mechanically inclined.
That's actually what I was leading up to in my last post. The problem is finding some craftsman worthy of that title. The good ones will all be employed. If I had no idea who to call, I would drive around and look for a welding/metal fabricating shop and try to get a metalsmith to secure the dish. A metalsmith would have access to the kind of metal stock (wood is not the way to go) needed and the tools to fabricate it. Seems so simple, but I do have friends who are not tool oriented.
The tripod and a few lead cinch anchors seems like the simplest way to go, but there is a bit of knowledge required to properly install anchors and the guy doesn't even own a drill.
Who's winning the battle of the Everglades? Pythons, boa constrictors or alligators?
Rich
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