Everyone should be on the MFH2 system

[HD seeker]

:nono2: I have read many of these posts and the recurring complain is that your SO (System Operator) like (MDUC, HOTWIRE, and other SOs) are not either upgrading the wiring or simply too busy for the upgrade. That is simply BS, groups like MDUC and such have the man power and ability to schedule the upgrade, people in MDUs must see the new HD system and get off the old 3 system (MFH1) before DTV shuts it down or move it. The April (annual meeting in Orlando) DTV is going to announce that next year ALL programming carried by them will be in HD. Once this announcement becomes public people are going to go nuts and if there is no plans in place for your building to upgrade you will be left behind. Also, in this meeting DTV will announce the introduction and availability of the SWM dish, but that's for residential.
If you are with one of the big MSO demand an upgrade or cancel contract, in your contract it should state that the provider must provide all services of DirecTV not a few but all. The cost excuse is BS; we are upgrading buildings now at a cost of $160 a drop and that includes 4 tuners. If some one has more than 4 tuners we charge them $100 for 4 more. Consider this price against what DTV pays us for a residential install, over $350!!. The above prices are if Association is under a bulk DIGITAL agreement.

You must look at your contract and determine if is only for analog as the primary source of TV. If your current provider feels that there is not enough penetration to justify upgrading that is also BS since DTV now pays him over $350 for a new sub and having the system in place he would get more calls for upgrade then he is getting now from the 3 lnb system. Therefore price issue is an indication of incompetence and not of cost.

Also some of you are self managing some building of over 100 unit and you want to do it yourselves by contacting DTV directly... you are crazy, you need a competent proven SO that will do and MAINTAIN the system and service calls, yes you can save some moneys initially but soon you will realize that no matter how knowledgeable you think you are issues come up all the time

I just had to put my 2 cents here, sorry for the long post :hurah:

[PrinceBandar]

:nono2: I have read many of these posts and the recurring complain is that your SO (System Operator) like (MDUC, HOTWIRE, and other SOs) are not either upgrading the wiring or simply too busy for the upgrade. That is simply BS, groups like MDUC and such have the man power and ability to schedule the upgrade, people in MDUs must see the new HD system and get off the old 3 system (MFH1) before DTV shuts it down or move it. The April (annual meeting in Orlando) DTV is going to announce that next year ALL programming carried by them will be in HD. Once this announcement becomes public people are going to go nuts and if there is no plans in place for your building to upgrade you will be left behind. Also, in this meeting DTV will announce the introduction and availability of the SWM dish, but that's for residential.
If you are with one of the big MSO demand an upgrade or cancel contract, in your contract it should state that the provider must provide all services of DirecTV not a few but all. The cost excuse is BS; we are upgrading buildings now at a cost of $160 a drop and that includes 4 tuners. If some one has more than 4 tuners we charge them $100 for 4 more. Consider this price against what DTV pays us for a residential install, over $350!!. The above prices are if Association is under a bulk DIGITAL agreement.

You must look at your contract and determine if is only for analog as the primary source of TV. If your current provider feels that there is not enough penetration to justify upgrading that is also BS since DTV now pays him over $350 for a new sub and having the system in place he would get more calls for upgrade then he is getting now from the 3 lnb system. Therefore price issue is an indication of incompetence and not of cost.

Also some of you are self managing some building of over 100 unit and you want to do it yourselves by contacting DTV directly... you are crazy, you need a competent proven SO that will do and MAINTAIN the system and service calls, yes you can save some moneys initially but soon you will realize that no matter how knowledgeable you think you are issues come up all the time

I just had to put my 2 cents here, sorry for the long post :hurah:
If wishing only made it so...I have AT&T---they are slowing rolling it--they originally said Dec then Jan now March...who knows tho. I hate ATT.

[AntAltMike]

I am not a DirecTV dealer but have close relations with several. A few months ago, I read the Operator agreement between a Master System Operator and a System Operator, and it said that the System operator was to be paid an amount that was smaller than $100 for connecting a digital, "L-band" new customer in a building that already had bulk analog, and then they get a very small percentage of the marginal revenue generated by that account. A resident who gets his own standard definition receiver installed and subscribes to Choice (formerly Total Choice), is billed $30 per month, and the system operator gets a small percentage of that, and only when 50 or more people in the building subscribe to the digital tier, but the system operator gets nothing from the marginal revenue until the 50 subscriber threshold is reached. I'm not saying the exact dollar amounts because the amount is confidential, but I have never heard of anything like new member HD seeker is claiming.

I don't believe that DirecTV will be announcing that "all programming will be HDTV", because they don't have the bandwidth to do so and most programming was not produced in HDTV fromat.

HD seeker has a posting history of one post. Very few people have advance knowledge of what DirecTV is ever going to do and when, since DirecTV is not managed as recklessly as is DISH Network. If he is a high enough ranking employee to have the information he claims to have, then he should be fired for undermining his employer. If he has been given this "information" by someone who wants it disseminated, then how can he confirm it?

[Slowhand]

There are many statements of the OP that I think are totally inacurrate and untrue. I am a system operator in the Washington DC area and AntAlt Mike was pretty close with the amount of compensation given by DirecTV for MDU activations.

Another fact is that I have just obtained my MH2 parts for my latest property. At first the delay was in the SWM-8s. Then once they came in my MSO distributor had problem with obtaining the racks for the SWM-8s to go in. Availability of these parts is tight and that has resulted in delays of installations and upgrades.

Another factor to keep in mind is that I have been contacted by several properties to upgrade their system. I ask them how many are on the system. They say less than 30. Now why would I want to spend a lot of money upgrading a system when the only revenue that the property will generate is less than 10% residuals on the programming? A fully loaded rack of SWM-8 and auxillary parts costs me over $2000 and will normally support only 12 tenants. And after the system is upgraded then I have to service and support all the existing DirecTV customers with problems that they have.

Finally, we are a beta installer for DirecTV. We have installed one of the new SWM slimline dishes. It worked fine at first and then crapped out after 3 days. Don't expect to see the SWM slimline antennas for 2 years because they need to do thorough testing and then set up manufacturing lines to produce them in large quantities.

If the OP disputes my statements I would like to know the source of his information and more information to substantiate his claims.

Slowhand

[HD seeker]

I am not a DirecTV dealer but have close relations with several. A few months ago, I read the Operator agreement between a Master System Operator and a System Operator, and it said that the System operator was to be paid an amount that was smaller than $100 for connecting a digital, "L-band" new customer in a building that already had bulk analog, and then they get a very small percentage of the marginal reveune generated by that account. A resident who gets his own standard definition receiver installed and subscribes to Choice (formerly Total Choice), he is billed $30 per month, and the system operator gets a small percentage of that, and only when 50 or more people in the building subscribe to the digital tier, but the system operator gets nothing from the marginal revenue until the 50 subscriber threshold is reached. I'm not saying the exact dollar amounts because the amount is confidential, but I have never heard of anything like new member HD seeker is claiming.

I don't believe that DirecTV will be announcing that "all programming will be HDTV", because they don't have the bandwidth to do so and most programming was not produced in HDTV fromat.


HD seeker has a posting history of one post. Very few people have advance knowledge of what DirecTV is ever going to do and when, since DirecTV is not managed as recklessly as is DISH Network. If he is a high enough ranking employee to have the information he claims to have, then he should be fired for undermining his employer. If he has been given this "information" by someone who wants it disseminated, then how can he confirm it?

1. An "L-band" system is very cheap, you have 101 stacked and with Sonora devices it would cost you less then $10 to setup inside the apartment, so I don’t understand your statement
2. I never said anything about the price of the Bulk system nor the prices, we install the backbone at the prices stated in my post and charge the MSOs for it and they gladly pay. Nobody ever stated that if setup a RETAIL backbone you must use the MSOs permission to set up 1 or 4 or 23 customers. You would do so via the Retail dealership and receive PPC and $$ from your installation plus monthly commission, yes is only $1.00, but you are not in the biz for the comm.
3. What are you talking about; DTV can convert the 101 to mpeg4 and have more than they need. And behind the 101 there are 4 more birds for backup, so they can easily use 2 birds and later launch others. Funny, I got the same feedback last year when I announced that by the end of 2007 we would have close to 100 HD channels.
3. I am not an Employee, just ask anyone that got the commercial email about the contents of the Orlando meeting. I suppose that if I told you that DTV will close Universal Studios just for us for a private John Mellencamp concert you probably think I am a liar. You have no clue of the reality, stop asking your friend and become a SO and learn.

[HD seeker]

There are many statements of the OP that I think are totally inacurrate and untrue. I am a system operator in the Washington DC area and AntAlt Mike was pretty close with the amount of compensation given by DirecTV for MDU activations.

Another fact is that I have just obtained my MH2 parts for my latest property. At first the delay was in the SWM-8s. Then once they came in my MSO distributor had problem with obtaining the racks for the SWM-8s to go in. Availability of these parts is tight and that has resulted in delays of installations and upgrades.

Another factor to keep in mind is that I have been contacted by several properties to upgrade their system. I ask them how many are on the system. They say less than 30. Now why would I want to spend a lot of money upgrading a system when the only revenue that the property will generate is less than 10% residuals on the programming? A fully loaded rack of SWM-8 and auxillary parts costs me over $2000 and will normally support only 12 tenants. And after the system is upgraded then I have to service and support all the existing DirecTV customers with problems that they have.

Finally, we are a beta installer for DirecTV. We have installed one of the new SWM slimline dishes. It worked fine at first and then crapped out after 3 days. Don't expect to see the SWM slimline antennas for 2 years because they need to do thorough testing and then set up manufacturing lines to produce them in large quantities.

If the OP disputes my statements I would like to know the source of his information and more information to substantiate his claims.

Slowhand

1. I never said when the SWM dish would be available.... read my post again
2. You are probable a 2nd level Operator via either Pace/Multiband, Multicomm or PDI most likely Pace. Your Commission and payment is AFTER the MSO get's it's cut. There are different levels, so before you disagree with people research what you think you know.
3. If it costs you $2000 for a full chassis and 6 SWMs you are getting ripped off We pay $1200 for that system, including the dish, somebody is making a lot of money from you guys and I am going to guess is Ken from Pace.lol

[AntAltMike]

1. An "L-band" system is very cheap, you have 101 stacked and with Sonora devices it would cost you less then $10 to setup inside the apartment, so I don’t understand your statement

L-band refers to signals transmitted at intermediate frequencies above 950 MHz, and in this industry, that means they are still encrypted and require receivers. Since DirecTV will no longer approve WB or Legacy systems for new MDUs, I now find it practical to refer to SWM distribution as L-band distribution, as distinct from the analog bulk that will accompany it in the buildings I am involved with. I don't think I have seen a contract for an MDU that has only L-band but not analog bulk, so I don't know how much that commission structure varies from the ones that I am familiar with.

The most current System Operator Agreement that I have on file was obtained from a Master System Operator just a few months ago. It was the most current available at the time but, incredibly, its technical specs were pre-spotbeam and pre-satellite B/C. It required systems to have the capacity for immediate connection of 40% of the units on each floor. When I called them and asked them what kind of SWM capacity had to be in place, they said to send them a building diagram and they'd design the system.

Another DirecTV SO with whom I correspond sent the same MSO a building diagram and they designed a system for him that had two SWM ports available for each and every apartment. He could not justify installing that much initial hardware given the commission structure and what the MDU would be willing to pay, so that project never got built.

2. ...You would do so via the Retail dealership and receive PPC and $$ from your installation plus monthly commission, yes is only $1.00, but you are not in the biz for the comm.

I'm in the business for the profit on the installation, which the "second tier" system operator will only buy if he can make money on it. So far, the system operators in my market have determined that they cannot presently make money in most of their properties by upgrading to SWM under the current parts prices and commission structure.

By the way, in my limited life experience, I have only seen systems operated by "second tier" system operators. Do the "big three" actually operate their own systems in your market?


3. What are you talking about; DTV can convert the 101 to mpeg4 and have more than they need. And behind the 101 there are 4 more birds for backup, so they can easily use 2 birds and later launch others.

Converting 101 from MPEG2 to MPEG4 will increase data by 30%, but sending out the channels in HDTV will require about a 600% increase in data. It will also prematurely obsolete maybe 40 million receivers. Don't hold your breath.

Funny, I got the same feedback last year when I announced that by the end of 2007 we would have close to 100 HD channels.

Under what screen name did you "announce" that and get that feedback, and in what forum threads? The opening post of this thread was your first post here under your present screen name. I have been involved in bit-counting threads for as long as there have been such threads (at this forum, I submitted my posts since 2001 as a guest, so after three months or 6 months, my AntAltMike moniker under which those posts were submitted got automatically changed to "guest"). DirecTV is committed to using its 101 Ka for its own relaying, so its Ka bandwidth is limited to the 2 GHz x 2 polarities = 4 GHz it has at 99 and 103, and something like 1,200 or 1,300 channels of local broadcast HDTV spotbeam has to be crammed into that. It has been calculated elsewhere that DirecTV will wind up fitting no more than 150 CONUS HDTV programs in the remaining, available 99/103 MPEG4 bandwidth.

If DirecTV converts its 36 CONUS (26 plus 7 plus 3, by my count) Ku MPEG2 transponders to MPEG4, maybe it can fit three HDTV shows on each instead of two HDTV shows, whereas they each carry 13 or 14 standard definition shows now. That increase in capacity is a drop in the bucket that will probably only become worth realizing when those existing satellites, for which DirecTV has paid billions of dollars, are ready to expire.


3. I am not an Employee, just ask anyone that got the commercial email about the contents of the Orlando meeting. I suppose that if I told you that DTV will close Universal Studios just for us for a private John Mellencamp concert you probably think I am a liar. You have no clue of the reality, stop asking your friend and become a SO and learn.

Because of my close, working relationship with various system operators, I have access to any confidential information that has been given to them. Unfortunately for this thread, those who have shared that information with me expect me to treat what I have been told as confidential information, just as you were supposed to have, if indeed, you have been given any such information in a professional capacity.

I will not become a system operator under any circumstances because doing so is inconsistent with the nature of my business. I am not interested in managing a company of minimum wage employees to perform grunt labor under terms that DirecTV can change at a whim.

I service a lot of MDU "carcases" that have been abandoned by other larger, well financed companies who learned the hard way that it was not profitable for them to operate a system under the terms that DirecTV made available to them. I am now paid to do so by the management of these buildings, who still have to placate their residents.

I serviced one such system this afternoon. While I was there, a resident was gushing over my competence and lamented that they would have been much happier of they had found me earlier. I told him that they would not be happier if they had found me earlier, because they wouldn't have gotten the tens of thousands of dollars worth of underpriced hardware and service from me that they had gotten from their initial system operator installer/operator, who has long since abandoned their system as a loser.

[HD seeker]

L-band refers to signals transmitted at intermediate frequencies above 950 MHz, and in this industry, that means they are still encrypted and require receivers. Since DirecTV will no longer approve WB or Legacy systems for new MDUs, I now find it practical to refer to SWM distribution as L-band distribution, as distinct from the analog bulk that will accompany it in the buildings I am involved with. I don't think I have seen a contract for an MDU that has only L-band but not analog bulk, so I don't know how much that commission structure varies from the ones that I am familiar with.

The most current System Operator Agreement that I have on file was obtained from a Master System Operator just a few months ago. It was the most current available at the time but, incredibly, its technical specs were pre-spotbeam and pre-satellite B/C. It required systems to have the capacity for immediate connection of 40% of the units on each floor. When I called them and asked them what kind of SWM capacity had to be in place, they said to send them a building diagram and they'd design the system.

Another DirecTV SO with whom I correspond sent the same MSO a building diagram and they designed a system for him that had two SWM ports available for each and every apartment. He could not justify installing that much initial hardware given the commission structure and what the MDU would be willing to pay, so that project never got built.



I'm in the business for the profit on the installation, which the "second tier" system operator will only buy if he can make money on it. So far, the system operators in my market have determined that they cannot presently make money in most of their properties by upgrading to SWM under the current parts prices and commission structure.

By the way, in my limited life experience, I have only seen systems operated by "second tier" system operators. Do the "big three" actually operate their own systems in your market?




Converting 101 from MPEG2 to MPEG4 will increase data by 30%, but sending out the channels in HDTV will require about a 600% increase in data. It will also prematurely obsolete maybe 40 million receivers. Don't hold your breath.



Under what screen name did you "announce" that and get that feedback, and in what forum threads? The opening post of this thread was your first post here under your present screen name. I have been involved in bit-counting threads for as long as there have been such threads (at this forum, I submitted my posts since 2001 as a guest, so after three months or 6 months, my AntAltMike moniker got automatically changed to "guest"). DirecTV is committed to using its 101 Ka for its own relaying, so its Ka bandwidth is limited to the 2 GHz x 2 polarities = 4 GHz it has at 99 and 103, and something like 1,200 or 1,300 channels of local broadcast HDTV spotbeam has to be crammed into that. It has been calculate elsewhere that DirecTV will wind up fitting no more than 150 CONUS HDTV programs in the remaining, available 99/103 MPEG4 bandwidth.

If DirecTV converts its 36 CONUS (26 plus 7 plus 3, by my count) Ku MPEG2 transponders to MPEG4, maybe it can fit three HDTV shows on each instead of two HDTV shows, whereas they each carry 13 or 14 standard definition shows now. That increase in capacity is a drop in the bucket that will probably only become worth realizing when those existing satellites, for which DirecTV has paid billions of dollars, are ready to expire.




Because of my close, working relationship with various system operators, I have access to any confidential information that has been given to them. Unfortunately for this thread, those who have shared that information with me expect me to treat what I have been told as confidential information, just as you were supposed to have, if indeed, you have been given any such information in a professional capacity.

I will not become a system operator under any circumstances because doing so is inconsistent with the nature of my business. I am not interested in managing a company of minimum wage employees to perform grunt labor under terms that DirecTV can change at a whim.

I service a lot of MDU "carcases" that have been abandoned by other larger, well financed companies who learned the hard way that it was not profitable for them to operate a system under the terms that DirecTV made available to them. I am now paid to do so by the management of these buildings, who still have to placate their residents.

I serviced one such system this afternoon, in fact. While I was there, a resident was gushing over my competence and lamented that they would have been much happier of they had found me earlier. I told him that they would not be happier if they had found me earlier, because they wouldn't have gotten the tens of thousands of dollars worth of underpriced hardware and service that they had gotten from their initial system operator installer/operator, who has long since abandoned their system as a loser.

Wow, I think you think you know too much, this biz is very simple and I have been doing this since 1994, you know this date. I can tell that you listen to too many SO guys. let me see if I can make you understand. DirecTV sends the signal and then Invoices somebody, that's it. All these issues you talked about are issues that people like MDUC, Multiband etc have attempted to partner into with DTV and they have tried to force DTV to maintain their profit margin, that’s so crazy. How can you have a public Co. totally dependent on some commission from another Co? It sounds like you have a 1 person operation that basically is what I have with several employees. We don't depend on any $$ from DTV in fact DTV $$ is so small that I use it for incentives for the Techs. The properties enter into an agreement with DTV, which if you look at their website any Association can. DTV does this for the fact that anyone can get their services and thus avoid scam from people charging a fee to get their services. Then we come in, not by using the MSO status but as a wiring and Maintenance CO. Now the reason that there is more control in the RESIDENTIAL model with DTV is because DTV gets involved with buying down the equipment for Dealers and has to have a system to charge back, which I don't agree with the PPC at all, and DTV knows how I feel about charge backs, I am sure they remember me from the DTV Hawaii trip.
As far as were I posted 1 year ago I don’t remember, I post when I see something and then I move on, I don’t reside in any one forum, in fact I joined today and after a few more post I will probably loose further interest and stop posting, I find this forums a cesspool of contradiction and I usually get attacked. I must say, this forum is one of the largest I have seen in a wile then again I don’t search that much.
As far as the “confidential information” you talked about there is non, don’t make it so and by doing so you continue to advocate withholding information which people need to know in order to make decisions. Here is one more “confidential information” DTV will be purchasing PC Co’s (Private Cable) in order to compete with Comcast, think about that for a while. And A big MSO will be soon absorbed by DTV which can be good or bad I don’t know yet.
Also the boom in my Biz could also be the region that I am from; we operate all year without snow and in my region there is over 5000 buildings along with an average of over 195 units per building.:eek2:

[AntAltMike]

Wow, I think you think you know too much...

As my late friend, Dave Wentworth, once said, "The trouble with you is, you think you're one of them pseudo intellectuals!"

this biz is very simple and I have been doing this since 1994, you know this date.
Actually, you haven't been doing DirecTV MDU since 1994 because they didn't have such a program back then.
I can tell that you listen to too many SO guys. Who am I supposed to listen to? They are my customers and consistently tell me that they cannot install SWM systems in most of their properties under present DirecTV policies and with present hardware prices.
let me see if I can make you understand. DirecTV sends the signal and then Invoices somebody, that's it. All these issues you talked about are issues that people like MDUC, Multiband etc have attempted to partner into with DTV and they have tried to force DTV to maintain their profit margin, that’s so crazy.
What you have to understand is that the current DirecTV MSO structure, with three Master System Operators and a bunch of "second tier" system operators is reality. The earlier business models didn't work, and now, with DVRs selling for $600+ or leasing for a $300 up-front lease fee, DirecTV cannot endure the system operator failures it endured half a dozen years ago, because they will get their pants sued off by state Attorney Generals if a rogue system operator goes belly up, leaving a bunch of DirecTV customers with system that they have paid hundreds of dollars for but which cannot be used to subscribe to DirecTV because the local system operator went broke.

How can you have a public Co. totally dependent on some commission from another Co? How is that remark relevant to this thread? Besides, there are electric companies that make loads of money selling electricity to each other.

It sounds like you have a 1 person operation that basically is what I have with several employees. We don't depend on any $$ from DTV in fact DTV $$ is so small that I use it for incentives for the Techs.
Ditto. If I hired anyone to do what I do, he'd leave me and make five times as much per hour working for himself. I worked briefly for three well-known firms in this market in 1995, and left them to make five times as much per hour. I think that nearly every company in this market was started by someone who used to work for Peake Communications.
The properties enter into an agreement with DTV, which if you look at their website any Association can. DTV does this for the fact that anyone can get their services and thus avoid scam from people charging a fee to get their services.
The System Operator/Master System Operator agreement is a confidential agreement that is not available on DirecTV's website and includes vague language empowering the system operator to charge unspecified fees for installations and maintenance as long as those charges are not "unreasonable". It says that "nothing in this agreement shall preclude a system operator for charging for blah, blah, blah". Have you ever seen the agreement between a system operator and a Master System Operator?

As far as were I posted 1 year ago I don't remember, I post when I see something and then I move on, I don’t reside in any one forum, in fact I joined today and after a few more post I will probably loose further interest and stop posting, I find this forums a cesspool of contradiction and I usually get attacked. I must say, this forum is one of the largest I have seen in a wile then again I don't search that much.

Aw, come on!. Anyone who regards his posts as "announcements" is going to remember who he was claiming to be when he blessed us with that wisdom.

As far as the “confidential information” you talked about there is non, don’t make it so and by doing so you continue to advocate withholding information which people need to know in order to make decisions.Of course there is. The commissions paid to dealers is confidential, as are the prices and terms under which they buy receivers.

Here is one more “confidential information” DTV will be purchasing PC Co’s (Private Cable) in order to compete with Comcast, think about that for a while. And A big MSO will be soon absorbed by DTV which can be good or bad I don’t know yet.

Why should anyone care what an anonymous forum member with no posting history predicts the future to hold?
Also the boom in my Biz could also be the region that I am from; we operate all year without snow and in my region there is over 5000 buildings along with an average of over 195 units per building.:eek2:
The biggest market force driving DirecTV in my market, Washington DC metro, is that approximately 3/4s of the adults here were born and raised elsewhere, meaning that there is more demand for DirecTV's out-of-market sports packages, and the driving force for DISH Network is of course the fact that the immigrant communities here are wealthier than in any other part of the country, since the connection that got them here was usually through their embassy.

In Florida, you may similarly benefit from the northern retirees. I'm told that even though the Dolphins sell out all of their games, their actual attendance is low because a lot of Season Ticket holders are only interested in seeing their home team when it visits.

[woodybeetle]

I find it interesresting that you can buy a SWM chassis fully loaded for less that the price the big MSOs are importing it. Hell, If you go to RF Magic, the company that produces the chip for the SWM, you cant get it that cheap. Try going to England and buying their version (it came out a year ago, SWM is based on it) you still cant touch 1200.00. Please email me and I will buy them from you at a 10% markup, just kidding, cant buy what does not exist. And yes, I am a SO, and yes I do not rely on DTV for my living. I have currently 397 Headends, 207 L Band onlys and pushing 70000 doors in my little SO. I also have personnel friendships with the owners of the L Band Stacking Patents. Please dont try to talk down to us with the hype of all HD. Its a crock, also dont try to insult us with your expertise in the industry. DTV has no intention of going all HD for years.... The current buisness model is to reach 35 percent penetration by christmas. 35 percent of all STB's, not accounts. Please respond with your wit and commentary so as I can sit back and enjoy it over coffee with my technicians monday.

Dan

[woodybeetle]

Also, since when are you allowed to use a residential install in an MDU enviroment. Please list your properties here so I can assume them. It amazes me the lack of professionalism you have displayed here. Once again I will sit back and watch as people like yourself help to inplode this industry.

[HD seeker]

Also, since when are you allowed to use a residential install in an MDU enviroment. Please list your properties here so I can assume them. It amazes me the lack of professionalism you have displayed here. Once again I will sit back and watch as people like yourself help to inplode this industry.

WOW, 397 headends no wonder you need coffee, you are probably the SO that is part of the deal of DTV buying you out...mmmm let's see can you say xtreme lol. If you had anywhere that amount you wouldn't be here posting. and yes I pay $1200 per rack, reason you don't , Dan, is your probably buying it from PDI or your are PDI lol. Tell Mike to his wife is hot lol.
At any rate, lighten up don't take so seriously, that was my point in this entire post. And now I am going to have my java, Mr. professional.:lol:

[PrinceBandar]

Does anyone have any insight on when ATT wills start upgrading their system to MFH-2. I am in a complex in San Francisco with about 500-700 Residents. ATT has annouced that they are phasing out D at the end of the quarter--but they've told us they are still keeping us on D. Also that they plan on upgrading us to MFH-2 (at least they have been telling us that the last 5 months). Seems like you guys have a lot of inside scoop...maybe one of you could give me some kind of insight I can't get from my building or ATT.

[woodybeetle]

Man,

You copletely missed the point of my post, oh well. And to let you know, a. I am not being bought out by DTV, b. I am not affiliated with PDI, c. I do not purchase my programming through a MSO, I have been buying it directly from DTV, Echostar,Fourcom, for years. I spend more time in the lab than in the field lately so that may why it is that I cannot buy the parts at the price you claim, although the last time I talked to RF Magic, they were not able to buy them for that either (weird)

Good luck to you and yours, I will look for you at the conference in April.

[woodybeetle]

Just two more thoughts.
a. If DTV was buying me out, it would not be a bad thing as their MDU division Directpath has been paying upwards of 800.00 per door. Hmmm 800.00 X 70000 =56,000,000.00. Dont think they are going to do it LOL.
b. If I had to visit the headends I run on a daily basis as you imply, I would fall out and need the coffee. Too bad that we solved that years ago and remotely monitor and control our headends from the office. The only time I dispach a tech is when we need to balance or have a parts failure. Work smarter not harder. I have 5 people that monitor the headends on a daily basis and normally corret a problem before the customer can see it. As far as the Commission structure you eluded to, not going to even tell you what it is as I am sure that you and I are on completely different schedules, you on residential??? and me on direct mdu dealer.

Good luck

[Slowhand]

:nono2: I have read many of these posts and the recurring complain is that your SO (System Operator) like (MDUC, HOTWIRE, and other SOs) are not either upgrading the wiring or simply too busy for the upgrade. That is simply BS, groups like MDUC and such have the man power and ability to schedule the upgrade, people in MDUs must see the new HD system and get off the old 3 system (MFH1) before DTV shuts it down or move it. The April (annual meeting in Orlando) DTV is going to announce that next year ALL programming carried by them will be in HD. Once this announcement becomes public people are going to go nuts and if there is no plans in place for your building to upgrade you will be left behind. Also, in this meeting DTV will announce the introduction and availability of the SWM dish, but that's for residential.
If you are with one of the big MSO demand an upgrade or cancel contract, in your contract it should state that the provider must provide all services of DirecTV not a few but all. The cost excuse is BS; we are upgrading buildings now at a cost of $160 a drop and that includes 4 tuners. If some one has more than 4 tuners we charge them $100 for 4 more. Consider this price against what DTV pays us for a residential install, over $350!!. The above prices are if Association is under a bulk DIGITAL agreement.

You must look at your contract and determine if is only for analog as the primary source of TV. If your current provider feels that there is not enough penetration to justify upgrading that is also BS since DTV now pays him over $350 for a new sub and having the system in place he would get more calls for upgrade then he is getting now from the 3 lnb system. Therefore price issue is an indication of incompetence and not of cost.

Also some of you are self managing some building of over 100 unit and you want to do it yourselves by contacting DTV directly... you are crazy, you need a competent proven SO that will do and MAINTAIN the system and service calls, yes you can save some moneys initially but soon you will realize that no matter how knowledgeable you think you are issues come up all the time

I just had to put my 2 cents here, sorry for the long post :hurah:

HD seeker,

Again, most of the responses to your first post have a problem with the original post of the facts that you presented.

You state that people who subscribe to DirecTV should insist that the SO of their building should immediately upgrade their building to MH-2 because:
1. The SO receives $350 for each new subscriber. That is not true. That is only for residential subscribers. DirecTV does not want subscribers in MDU systems signed up as residential subscribers. The reason for this is someone must maintain the system and DirecTV does not want the responsibility to maintain and service problems with MDU systems. For my properties I give a maintainance contract, that is discounted, and with the residual payments from DirecTV I service and maintain the system. I am given nothing from DirecTV for upgrading systems. So I have to reach an agreement with the property for compensate me for some of my costs and charge the customers who do want to upgrade a "tuner fee". This system is far from being perfect. But it is the system that DirecTV has set up.

Who maintains and pays for the upgrades in your systems? From what I understand that you are doing is to sign up customers in MDU settings as residential properties, collect $350.00 per customer and then the HOA pays to maintain and service the property. I guess the HOA pays for all the upgrades to the systems as well. It seems like your business plan is to sign up customers as residential customers, and collect the big money upfront, and then place the resposibility of maintain, servicing, and upgrading the property solely on the HOA. How is this a benifit to the HOA?

Finally, I would also appreciate how I can buy some fully loaded racks for $1200.00. Ka/Ku antenna, six SWM-8s, three power inserters, and a rack chassis for that price is much better than what my distributor is charging me and I don't think that he is ripping me off. How about the main satellite power inserter, the main satellite amplifer and taps that are necessary? Who pays for these? You state that for $160 you are upgrading customers four channels. Who pays for the labor and receiver upgrades at these prices?

Like I said earlier, this system that DirecTV has set up is far from perfect. But, it is the system that DirecTV has set up for MDU systems. I think that the facts that you originally presented would lead readers to think that the SO for their building is not upgrading their properties solely because they are incompetent and greedy. That is not the case and I think that you are doing a disservice to the readers here at dbstalk.

Slowhand

[woodybeetle]

Does anyone have any insight on when ATT wills start upgrading their system to MFH-2. I am in a complex in San Francisco with about 500-700 Residents. ATT has annouced that they are phasing out D at the end of the quarter--but they've told us they are still keeping us on D. Also that they plan on upgrading us to MFH-2 (at least they have been telling us that the last 5 months). Seems like you guys have a lot of inside scoop...maybe one of you could give me some kind of insight I can't get from my building or ATT.

AT&T has gone through all the training in the last 2 months for the upgrades. It is unfortunately a money issue at this point. Having several contracts with Telcos, I can tell you it can take up to 6 months to free up the money for the upgrade. Depending on how your complex is layed out, coax underground, fiber to the building, headend with a Lband or just L Band it is a simple upgrade. Bear in mind that parts availability is a bit sketchy at this point for the large orders.

Good Luck:)

[woodybeetle]

HD seeker,

Again, most of the responses to your first post have a problem with the original post of the facts that you presented.

You state that people who subscribe to DirecTV should insist that the SO of their building should immediately upgrade their building to MH-2 because:
1. The SO receives $350 for each new subscriber. That is not true. That is only for residential subscribers. DirecTV does not want subscribers in MDU systems signed up as residential subscribers. The reason for this is someone must maintain the system and DirecTV does not want the responsibility to maintain and service problems with MDU systems. For my properties I give a maintainance contract, that is discounted, and with the residual payments from DirecTV I service and maintain the system. I am given nothing from DirecTV for upgrading systems. So I have to reach an agreement with the property for compensate me for some of my costs and charge the customers who do want to upgrade a "tuner fee". This system is far from being perfect. But it is the system that DirecTV has set up.

Who maintains and pays for the upgrades in your systems? From what I understand that you are doing is to sign up customers in MDU settings as residential properties, collect $350.00 per customer and then the HOA pays to maintain and service the property. I guess the HOA pays for all the upgrades to the systems as well. It seems like your business plan is to sign up customers as residential customers, and collect the big money upfront, and then place the resposibility of maintain, servicing, and upgrading the property solely on the HOA. How is this a benifit to the HOA?

Finally, I would also appreciate how I can buy some fully loaded racks for $1200.00. Six SWM-8s, three power inserters, and a rack chassis for that price is much better than what my distributor is charging me and I don't think that he is ripping me off. You state that for $160 you are upgrading customers four channels. Who pays for the labor and receiver upgrades at these prices?

Like I said earlier, this system that DirecTV has set up is far from perfect. But, it is the system that DirecTV has set up for MDU systems. I think that the facts that you originally presented would lead readers to think that the SO for their building is not upgrading their properties solely because they are incompetent and greedy. That is not the case and I think that you are doing a disservice to the readers here at dbstalk.

Slowhand

WELL SAID,

DAN

[AntAltMike]

Who maintains and pays for the upgrades in your systems? From what I understand that you are doing is to sign up customers in MDU settings as residential properties, collect $350.00 per customer and then the HOA pays to maintain and service the property. I guess the HOA pays for all the upgrades to the systems as well. It seems like your business plan is to sign up customers as residential customers, and collect the big money upfront, and then place the resposibility of maintain, servicing, and upgrading the property solely on the HOA. How is this a benifit to the HOA? ...
This kind of an arrangement can blow up in your face. In mid-2005, I had a dual, stacked Ku trunkline system upgrade approved by a three-to-two vote of a committee that had three DirecTV subscribers on it, in a building that had 25% of the residents on DirecTV. This is a property without a system operator, at which some A/V contractor from far away had simply sold this condo a stacked Sat A system about eight years ago and left them to fend for themselves.

Since my upgrade was installed, the DirecTV subscription percentage has dropped to 15% because Comcast offers twenty-six HDTV channels, versus only nine presently available from DirecTV, and doesn't charge $300 for HD DVRs, and one of the three members of the board majority sold his unit and was replaced by a person who doesn't see why the HOA should subsidize the extravagant viewing preferences of a self-selected minority of homeowners. The liklihood of this HOA now paying for an SWM upgrade is zero.

[HD seeker]

:nono2: I have read many of these posts and the recurring complain is that your SO (System Operator) like (MDUC, HOTWIRE, and other SOs) are not either upgrading the wiring or simply too busy for the upgrade. That is simply BS, groups like MDUC and such have the man power and ability to schedule the upgrade, people in MDUs must see the new HD system and get off the old 3 system (MFH1) before DTV shuts it down or move it. The April (annual meeting in Orlando) DTV is going to announce that next year ALL programming carried by them will be in HD. Once this announcement becomes public people are going to go nuts and if there is no plans in place for your building to upgrade you will be left behind. Also, in this meeting DTV will announce the introduction and availability of the SWM dish, but that's for residential.
If you are with one of the big MSO demand an upgrade or cancel contract, in your contract it should state that the provider must provide all services of DirecTV not a few but all. The cost excuse is BS; we are upgrading buildings now at a cost of $160 a drop and that includes 4 tuners. If some one has more than 4 tuners we charge them $100 for 4 more. Consider this price against what DTV pays us for a residential install, over $350!!. The above prices are if Association is under a bulk DIGITAL agreement.

You must look at your contract and determine if is only for analog as the primary source of TV. If your current provider feels that there is not enough penetration to justify upgrading that is also BS since DTV now pays him over $350 for a new sub and having the system in place he would get more calls for upgrade then he is getting now from the 3 lnb system. Therefore price issue is an indication of incompetence and not of cost.

Also some of you are self managing some building of over 100 unit and you want to do it yourselves by contacting DTV directly... you are crazy, you need a competent proven SO that will do and MAINTAIN the system and service calls, yes you can save some moneys initially but soon you will realize that no matter how knowledgeable you think you are issues come up all the time

I just had to put my 2 cents here, sorry for the long post :hurah:

Wow, I found this site and I posted info about HD and cost and how the MSOs do not want to invest in their customers, then I got fired from different angles from some guy that lives in some lab and a grandfather which needs to continue to be GOD in this forum. You people you re-read my post and don't assume anything but what I write. Remember that all agreement about the so call contracts and guidelines are all created by the MSOs and SOs and not by DTV, in fact if you want to litigate the so called MSO contract you can not bring DTV into the fight. I think that now you regular people that live in MDUs can read all these posts and realize who is attacking me and why.

Again, if you live in an MDU demand that these SOs and MSOs upgrade you buildings and sacrifice maybe 6 months of profits in order to people to watch better TV. These MSO/SO are most likely Rush Limbo followers and as such refuse to invest and change their profit margins.

As far as me I will stop postings and let the Mike (aka God) and others continue to provide all of you with excuses why you can't enjoy the best system in the world.
...:nono:

[Slowhand]

Wow, I found this site and I posted info about HD and cost and how the MSOs do not want to invest in their customers, then I got fired from different angles from some guy that lives in some lab and a grandfather which needs to continue to be GOD in this forum. You people you re-read my post and don't assume anything but what I write. Remember that all agreement about the so call contracts and guidelines are all created by the MSOs and SOs and not by DTV, in fact if you want to litigate the so called MSO contract you can not bring DTV into the fight. I think that now you regular people that live in MDUs can read all these posts and realize who is attacking me and why.

Again, if you live in an MDU demand that these SOs and MSOs upgrade you buildings and sacrifice maybe 6 months of profits in order to people to watch better TV. These MSO/SO are most likely Rush Limbo followers and as such refuse to invest and change their profit margins.

As far as me I will stop postings and let the Mike (aka God) and others continue to provide all of you with excuses why you can't enjoy the best system in the world.
...:nono:

HD seeker,

We just questioned some of the facts that you stated and asked you to substantiate some of your claims. Now you state that you are no longer going to post responses. I take that to mean that you can not defend your statements concerning who your distributor is that can sell you fully loaded racks and accessories for $1200 and whether you are signing up customers in MDU systems as residential customers.

Slowhand

[PrinceBandar]

Wow, I found this site and I posted info about HD and cost and how the MSOs do not want to invest in their customers, then I got fired from different angles from some guy that lives in some lab and a grandfather which needs to continue to be GOD in this forum. You people you re-read my post and don't assume anything but what I write. Remember that all agreement about the so call contracts and guidelines are all created by the MSOs and SOs and not by DTV, in fact if you want to litigate the so called MSO contract you can not bring DTV into the fight. I think that now you regular people that live in MDUs can read all these posts and realize who is attacking me and why.

Again, if you live in an MDU demand that these SOs and MSOs upgrade you buildings and sacrifice maybe 6 months of profits in order to people to watch better TV. These MSO/SO are most likely Rush Limbo followers and as such refuse to invest and change their profit margins.

As far as me I will stop postings and let the Mike (aka God) and others continue to provide all of you with excuses why you can't enjoy the best system in the world.
...:nono:

lol you did kinda get nuked by those guys. don't roll over so easy tho...who cares what they think. I'm just here to get information, i don't care about people who have big forum egos or who just posture for pissing matches. I just want to know what is up and ignore posturing by forum dorks.

[PrinceBandar]

HD seeker, I think that the facts that you originally presented would lead readers to think that the SO for their building is not upgrading their properties solely because they are incompetent and greedy. That is not the case and I think that you are doing a disservice to the readers here at dbstalk.

Slowhand

I actually believed that before he posted it man.

i have ATT and in my building of about 500+ people in SFO. They are rolling out their UVERSE service and doing everything they can to get people to switch to it. After rolling out Uverse they GOT RID of customer service for D. If you call customer service you get an answering machine where before you got a live person. Also service calls are now 40-50 bucks where there is no service call for Uverse. They have people call you 2-3 times a weeek, drop by with flyers and not take no for an answer. Meanwhile D goes out all the time because they don't maintain the MFH-1 in the building. I've had D be disconnected "accidently" for 2-3 days by Uverse guys 3 times in the last 6 months and they tried to charge me 40 bucks for a servic call. In fact, they are trying to frustrate people into trying crappy uverse and delay the upgrade to MFH-2. If you had D's 100 channels of Hd service with that high quality picture would you want to try Uverse? In short, I am pretty sympathetic with this guys negative view ..... What ATT has done in terms of discontinuing cusotmer support, increased disconnects, lack of maintaining the exisitng infrastructure here in Mission Bay may not be criminal but the FCC should be looking at crap like this. What's worse, is we can't switch because ATT has negotiated a contract where it is the sole building provider. We can't switch even if we wanted to. so go ahead and talk to me again how my operator is 100% above board...

[Slowhand]

lol you did kinda get nuked by those guys. don't roll over so easy tho...who cares what they think. I'm just here to get information, i don't care about people who have big forum egos or who just posture for pissing matches. I just want to know what is up and ignore posturing by forum dorks.


Prince,

You are here to get information. My concern is for people who give out misinformation and then can not substantiate some of the claims that they are stating as facts.

I can feel for you in your situation. I am not familiar with ATT. Is that AT&T? I am a small SO in Washington DC. I agree that you are getting screwed by a large corporation. In all of my contracts with my properties I state that if I can not resolve any issues that they have then they can give my 90 days notice of cancellation. I do that so that they are not locked into a contract with someone that they are unhappy with. That means that I must deliver with quality service at fair prices to all my properties.

I hope that you can resolve your problems with ATT and get your upgrade soon.

Slowhand

[woodybeetle]

Wow, I found this site and I posted info about HD and cost and how the MSOs do not want to invest in their customers, then I got fired from different angles from some guy that lives in some lab and a grandfather which needs to continue to be GOD in this forum. You people you re-read my post and don't assume anything but what I write. Remember that all agreement about the so call contracts and guidelines are all created by the MSOs and SOs and not by DTV, in fact if you want to litigate the so called MSO contract you can not bring DTV into the fight. I think that now you regular people that live in MDUs can read all these posts and realize who is attacking me and why.

Again, if you live in an MDU demand that these SOs and MSOs upgrade you buildings and sacrifice maybe 6 months of profits in order to people to watch better TV. These MSO/SO are most likely Rush Limbo followers and as such refuse to invest and change their profit margins.

As far as me I will stop postings and let the Mike (aka God) and others continue to provide all of you with excuses why you can't enjoy the best system in the world.
...:nono:

Six months profit, year right, try almost 225.00 per customer, thats without boxes or activations on up and running properties. Tats more like 18 months of propfits. We as a group did not give a single excuse why we would not upgrade a customer. We as smart buisness people try to correct the situations we are handed by DTV in a timely manner. It is us, not the customer that has to secure the financing to complete the upgrades. Lord knows we cant try to pass it on to the consumer. So from our standpoint, we are not posturing for you or anyone else, we are responding to the "facts" you posted. We base our opinions on what you wrote, not what we assumed you wrote. Face it, DTV screwed everyone when they announced in december that they were going to pull the HD feeds off the 110 bird, that has created a nightmare in the marketplace. It means that we cannot import the MFH2 parts as fast as we want, I am still sitting waiting on 60 FMC6 chassis. Money is not going to get them here any faster. I wish you well in all you do. As far as you calling us "Mike, and Rush followers, Please) You wouldnt even suspect me to be who I am if you met me. Thats the nice thing about this industry, Even us long haired biker freaks have a place. By the way, Do you know how lucky we are as consumers of the DTV product, Even mighty Echostar does not have a viable one wire multisat solution yet and here we are going on our fourth version. Hmmmm.
Please do not give up posting, even though we debate your facts, we all have something in common. The desire to service the customer. It is the only thing that allows this industry to prosper.

Dan
DDCESI/IPTV

[AntAltMike]

...You wouldnt even suspect me to be who I am if you met me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got the same problem. A woman stopped me on the street the other day. She says, "Bob, I thought you were just marvelous in The Sting."...

[DirecTv Chicago]

HDSeeker,

This is our problem as System Operators. This is a very popular forum and I know many of my customers come here for information. With the blatent lies you are reporting it makes the rest of the System Operators look greedy. The fact that you claim to receive $2,000 - $2500 worth of equipment for just $1,200 is beyond ridiculous. I purchase from all three of the major providers Pace, PDI and NACE and they are all relatively the same price.

So either all 3, along with DirecTV are in some type of collusion together or you are out here looking for attention. We welcome any news that you can offer as that is the idea of this forum. However when you are unable to substantiate what you are reporting we must deem it false information.

Finally we did not attack you in your post. You turned into a defensive mode and started talking down to the rest of the posters rather than providing facts to prove your points.

[PrinceBandar]

HDSeeker,

With the blatent lies you are reporting it makes the rest of the System Operators look greedy. The fact that you claim to receive $2,000 - $2500 worth of equipment for just $1,200 is beyond ridiculous......

Finally we did not attack you in your post. You turned into a defensive mode and started talking down to the rest of the posters rather than providing facts to prove your points.

1. Any time you tell someone they are blatant liars -- it usually means there is probably some truth to what they are saying.
2. "We did not attack you..." you guys jumped all over the guy.....It was not civil, it wasn't just questioning his assumptions it was like 3-4 attack dogs all over him calling him a liar....

The best way to get at the truth is to be civil and to supply facts--maybe this guy is abusing some of the facts but my gut is there is some truth to what he is saying given how shrill some of the attacks on him have been.

[DirecTv Chicago]

1. Any time you tell someone they are blatant liars -- it usually means there is probably some truth to what they are saying.
2. "We did not attack you..." you guys jumped all over the guy.....It was not civil, it wasn't just questioning his assumptions it was like 3-4 attack dogs all over him calling him a liar....

The best way to get at the truth is to be civil and to supply facts--maybe this guy is abusing some of the facts but my gut is there is some truth to what he is saying given how shrill some of the attacks on him have been.


I'm sorry but I don't understand the logic of your statement? Because I stated he is blatant liar that in fact means he is not?

I believe many people asked him where he was able to purchase his equipment at that low of a cost. Because if he was telling the truth we would be interested in receiving equipment from that distributor ourselves. However he contiually dodged the question leaving us to make the assumption he was either lying or exagerrating to a large degree.

[PrinceBandar]

I'm sorry but I don't understand the logic of your statement? Because I stated he is blatant liar that in fact means he is not?

I believe many people asked him where he was able to purchase his equipment at that low of a cost. Because if he was telling the truth we would be interested in receiving equipment from that distributor ourselves. However he contiually dodged the question leaving us to make the assumption he was either lying or exagerrating to a large degree.

Well it just makes you sound a little "irate"......Usually when people throw insults like that around ---someone has hit a nerve.

I know a lot of business owners who don't like to disclose where they get their deals from. Maybe thats why he didn't tell you name of the vendor..

Generally, my guess is DTV has not made it a slam dunk for operaters to do the upgrade but at the same time, many of them are slow rolling it hoping D will offer a better deal or the economics will look better at some point. So pointedly pressure has to be put on the MSOs to do the right thing and get the upgrades done. As a consumer I'd be willing to pay 200 bucks to help offset the costs, but I am not even offered the opportunity to upgrade by my operator....(AT&T)

[woodybeetle]

Well it just makes you sound a little "irate"......Usually when people throw insults like that around ---someone has hit a nerve.

I know a lot of business owners who don't like to disclose where they get their deals from. Maybe thats why he didn't tell you name of the vendor..

Generally, my guess is DTV has not made it a slam dunk for operaters to do the upgrade but at the same time, many of them are slow rolling it hoping D will offer a better deal or the economics will look better at some point. So pointedly pressure has to be put on the MSOs to do the right thing and get the upgrades done. As a consumer I'd be willing to pay 200 bucks to help offset the costs, but I am not even offered the opportunity to upgrade by my operator....(AT&T)

And we wish that the other 99 percent of the customers could see it that way too. We as a group of SO's were blindsided by DTV these last couple of months and are now trying to control the downward spiral of them cutting off a sat this upcoming winter. I wish that I could get parts for his price, hell, I would buy them from him at a 15 percent markup. If I seem as to have attacked anyone, apologies all around. It was not the intention. I did and do and will continue to disagree with most of the statements from HD. As far as AT&T, they sent DTV an announcement last fall with their intentions of rolling out Uverse, it sucks, but they donot care forthe end user as far as I can tell(my opinion). I work with a large Telco locally and we deemed the change to fiber fed video was not a buisness wise decision yet. The initial investment is not too bad for the headend but the STB's kill you at roughly 500 a pop.

[Earl Bonovich]

I am going to say this first...

I haven't read every post in this thread.... only skimmed most of it.

But here is the deal:

1) You have supply and demand right now of the MFH2 components.
There are a fair number of pieces to the puzzle... and all of them are new, and in very high demand.

2) You have the general cost of the parts... which depending on the volume... is a cost factor. Bigger MDU's that is going to be a significant capital investiment.... then you have the cost of putting it all together..

That is man power and time... plus any physical requirements needed in the building that may need build outs.... as in most cases, they can't gut the MFH-1 solution... and just put the MFH-2 in 20 minutes...

3) Supply of those trained and qualified to do it.... granted at the end of the day... it is get cable-a to port-b... but... the cables are often cut-to-length... ends done... and in some cities... that does require union people to do it... which are in even higher demand...

4) This is an opportunity for a lot of those buildings to evaluate their other options out there.... "If we are going spend that much... lets make sure it is the right solution for us"... board meetings, interviews, ect....

5) A zillion others not discussed already in this thread...

These are not easy things to do here... especially as the scales increase...

MFH-2 or MFH-3... or switch completely.
Logistics of doing the head end work, while not impact the existing systems.

Get the new system in... test it... and, then now work on swap out of units.

A LOT of work...

So while it is great to say: "Everyone should be on MFH-2 system"
That is an easy statement to say... but far more complex to implement in reality...

I do sympathize with those in MDU's... I used to be in a town-house, and know what it is like to deal with associates... mine was fair, but at times down right difficult.

My Dad's (before he died)... removed his dish 2 times... because they wanted him to use some generic micro-wave carrier that was charging nearly double, for a 1/3 of the channels

Especially the larger MDU's that have boards that are responsible for 1,000s of units. Just like a lot of other things... it is about the $$$ not the people that it impacts.

Sucks... wish it was different... but it is not.

So hang in there... talk to your boards... don't be quiet in the discussion... make your point known.

If you have the finances... with the housing market the way it is... pick your self up a for-closure... get out of the MDU's...

But if you can't... Be sure to step back and look at the bigger picture..
Make sure that your opinion is being heard...

And bottom line...

Seriously... can we stop attack one another here...
Does the forum no good... and just keeps good information burried.