DTV Converter Boxes Reviewed

[Nick]

Zenith and GE D/A Converters Reviewed

By Jonathan Takiff, Philadelphia Daily News

According to a recent study by the Association of Public TV Stations (APTV),
nearly half of all households currently receiving free tv over-the-air (OTA) are
not interested in switching to cable or satellite after the digital TV transition.

After trying out the new Zenith (DTT900) or GE/Jasco (22730) digital TV tuner
boxes being offered at ultra-low prices to help viewers get over this hump, I
wouldn't be surprised if the viewership for "free TV" actually increases in the
commg all-digital TV age!

While I have a good Channel Master rooftop antenna on my house, I decided to
try out these new boxes first with a $12.95 set of rabbit ears (newly relabeled
"HDTV Indoor Antenna") from RadioShack. Amazingly, many of the channels
came in perfectly clear, with rock-steady, extra-sharp pictures with good color...

More @ Philly.com (http://www.philly.com/dailynews/features/20080312_Jonathan_Takiff__Zenith_measures_up_well_ against_GE_digital_tuner_converter.html?text=lg)

[Mike500]

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/Zenith_DTT900%20.html

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/DTVconverters.html

[scooper]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=25 - all manner of boxes being disucced as well as reception issues.

[Steve H]

If you have 5 OTA TV's in your house do you need one box for each TV? Every thing I have is connected to DISH so I haven't paid any attention to the need for the converter. Now I find out a friend that on uses OTA has 5 TV's and she needs help.

[scooper]

I don't know about Utah - but here in NC, we DO get weather that is bad enough to render DBS inop.

Besides - watching prime time stuff in HD is the best thing you'll ever see short of BEING THERE :D .

As for the number of boxes - you need one for each TV that you want to watch something different on, minus the TVs that have the digital tuner already builtin. Also, think about VCRs and OTA DVRs and DVD recorders as well.

[Kansas Zephyr]

If you have 5 OTA TV's in your house do you need one box for each TV? Every thing I have is connected to DISH so I haven't paid any attention to the need for the converter. Now I find out a friend that on uses OTA has 5 TV's and she needs help.
Yes.

One box for each TV. Antenna plugs into box...box plugs into TV antenna input.

Tune the TV to channel 3 or 4, then use the set-top remote to surf.

[Old Tv Watcher]

Yes.

One box for each TV. Antenna plugs into box...box plugs into TV antenna input.

Tune the TV to channel 3 or 4, then use the set-top remote to surf.

If you use channel 3 or 4 instead of component (RCA plugs) you will not receive stereo on stereo TVs.

[scooper]

If you use channel 3 or 4 instead of component (RCA plugs) you will not receive stereo on stereo TVs.

SLight miss in the nomenclature - the yellow is called COMPOSITE video, Red and white are analog audio outputs / inputs. "Component" in the video world means 3 coax cables (Red, green , blue) that don't have audio.

[Old Tv Watcher]

SLight miss in the nomenclature - the yellow is called COMPOSITE video, Red and white are analog audio outputs / inputs. "Component" in the video world means 3 coax cables (Red, green , blue) that don't have audio.

Tou are right. I always get that mixed up.

[Nick]

So clever of the CE industry to name YPbPr as "component", so similar to composite, it
was bound to be confusing for the avg consumer who doesn't know or understand what
'composite' or 'component' means in the first place.

Why didn't the CE geniuses just call component "RGB*" (red-green-blue) to start with,
I don't know.

*(technically speaking, consumer-level RGB is not the same as broadcast RGB which consists of five
separate elements of analog video signal information, being red, green, blue, luminance and sync, and,
in original form is fed via five coaxial lines)

[scooper]

I didn't make the terms up - I just correct consumers so they don't spread things like "the CECBs have component outputs" - which some videophile will immediately assume means they output HDTV resolutions - which is totally wrong.

And yes - I've seen computer monitors like you said on their video inputs :D - they usually came with a VGA (Dsub 15) at the other end.

[Kansas Zephyr]

If you use channel 3 or 4 instead of component (RCA plugs) you will not receive stereo on stereo TVs.
Not necessarily.

CECBs can have MTS stereo. Check the specific model to see if it is supported.

Plus, you can also use the RF for the video, and the RCA plugs to an external amp, as another option.

[scooper]

For the price of the CECBs - I very much doubt if you will find MTS stereo on the Channel 3/ 4 RF outputs. I'm not arguing that it is prohibited - rather, it will be seen as "too expensive" to build into the CECBs with their low price points.

[packfan909]

Happy I ordered my coupons. A church member needed our help with something. Noticed when I was there she was on antenna. She mentioned that it is IMPOSSIBLE to get the request for the coupons. She is older and disabled. I let her know that I will bring one over once I get the coupon in the mail. Funny that she is having troubles with the process. So if you don't need your coupons, still request them and purchase the boxes. There will be people who need them and spending 10 dollars for a box isn't a stretch for me. Its the least I can do in my community.

Quick question, she mentioned recording shows to her VCR. No quick shots to not having a DVR folks. She is on a fixed income. Do these STB's have the ability to time a channel change so you can record a show via a VCR or other device?

Thanks

pf

[Kansas Zephyr]

Quick question, she mentioned recording shows to her VCR. No quick shots to not having a DVR folks. She is on a fixed income. Do these STB's have the ability to time a channel change so you can record a show via a VCR or other device?
No. CECBs do not have that feature.

You will need a box for the VCR, too. If she wants to watch and record different channels.

You will manually pick the channel to be recorded on the set-top. The VCR can either record the output channel (3 or 4), or use the RCA Video/Audio outputs.

[Kansas Zephyr]

Happy I ordered my coupons. A church member needed our help with something. Noticed when I was there she was on antenna. She mentioned that it is IMPOSSIBLE to get the request for the coupons. She is older and disabled. I let her know that I will bring one over once I get the coupon in the mail. Funny that she is having troubles with the process. So if you don't need your coupons, still request them and purchase the boxes. There will be people who need them and spending 10 dollars for a box isn't a stretch for me. Its the least I can do in my community.
Have you tried requesting them for her, using her address? Then they would be mailed to her.

[packfan909]

Have you tried requesting them for her, using her address? Then they would be mailed to her.

Was just at her house yesterday. I will have to make that request if she needs any other STB's beyond the one in her family room. Thanks for the information. I was researching that earlier and that was the conclusion I was coming up with.

Not much option on these approved boxes. Thanks for the help Kansas.

pf

[n3ntj]

Looks like WalMart is sold out of one of the 2 boxes they offer on their website.

[n3ntj]

Do any of these converter boxes allow pass through of a coaxial satellite feed (from an IRD)? In my office, I have a TV with a small rabbit ears antenna and a coax feed from a Tivo unit elsewhere in the building.

Do any of the converters have an extra coax jack and allow the user to choose b/w antenna and cable/satellite? This would allow me to watch D* or the antenna without having the disconnect the coax lines. I believe this is called RF pass through.

[Grentz]

Do any of these converter boxes allow pass through of a coaxial satellite feed (from an IRD)? In my office, I have a TV with a small rabbit ears antenna and a coax feed from a Tivo unit elsewhere in the building.

Do any of the converters have an extra coax jack and allow the user to choose b/w antenna and cable/satellite? This would allow me to watch D* or the antenna without having the disconnect the coax lines. I believe this is called RF pass through.

You can just get a splitter/combiner:

Coax from other D* Unit --\
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>Combiner --> Converter Box --> TV Antenna input
Coax from antenna feed --/

Example of Splitter/Combiner:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SP-2052

[n3ntj]

Combining two signal into the input terminal won't screw up the converter? Feeding an analog D* signal (on channel 3) with a digital OTA signal (from the antenna) may work. When the converter is NOT powered up, the analog feed from the D* receiver will simply get passed through to the TV? I would assume this the RF feed Through (aka analog pass through) feature I hear some converter boxes have? I haven't found any boxes that have this feature.

[n3ntj]

After a little research, I found this (notes which ones will pass analog signal):

http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/Converter_Box_Retailers.html

Still not sure if I could pass through a D* receiver signal via a splitter though without needing analog/RF pass through.

[Grentz]

After a little research, I found this (notes which ones will pass analog signal):

http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/Converter_Box_Retailers.html

Still not sure if I could pass through a D* receiver signal via a splitter though without needing analog/RF pass through.

Correct, to do it the way I said above you would need to have a Converter that has the Analog pass through. This allows it to tune to both Analog and Digital stations (your feed from the other D* receiver is Analog). The converter box would always be powered up even when watching the D* receiver as it would be tuning to the analog station.

Another option is to plug the coax from the D* receiver into the antenna input on the TV and then plug the converter box into the composite inputs (Yellow, Red, White) (like you will do already as that is how the converter boxes connect usually). Then to watch your D* receiver you would switch to the antenna input and to watch your antenna TV through the converter you would switch to Video 1.

So the setup diagram would be:

Coax from other D* Unit --> TV Antenna Input

Coax from antenna feed --> Converter Box --> TV Composite Inputs (Yellow, Red, White)

[scooper]

Ok - you're mixing some concepts up here.

To combine DBS and OTA signals - you need a PAIR of diplexers. One to combine the OTA antenna and the signal from the LNB. Down at the other end, the other diplexer splits the signals out again.

Now, for analog and digital OTA - they are using the same frequency band (channels 2-69). Your question about "analog passthrough" is valid however. I have one CECB (the Philco TB100HH9 that I got from Solid Signal ( www.solidsignal.com )) that does the "CECB powered on analog passthrough". It kind of does passthrough when powered off, but with a definate hit on analog signal quality. So far , it doesn't exhibit any of the audio issues of the Zenith DTT900 / Insignia NSX-1A, nor has it crashed when doing a longterm Digital CLosed Caption test.

[Grentz]

Ok - you're mixing some concepts up here.

To combine DBS and OTA signals - you need a PAIR of diplexers. One to combine the OTA antenna and the signal from the LNB. Down at the other end, the other diplexer splits the signals out again.

Now, for analog and digital OTA - they are using the same frequency band (channels 2-69). Your question about "analog passthrough" is valid however. I have one CECB (the Philco TB100HH9 that I got from Solid Signal ( www.solidsignal.com )) that does the "CECB powered on analog passthrough". It kind of does passthrough when powered off, but with a definate hit on analog signal quality. So far , it doesn't exhibit any of the audio issues of the Zenith DTT900 / Insignia NSX-1A, nor has it crashed when doing a longterm Digital CLosed Caption test.

Hes not talking about combining satellite and OTA, he is talking about combining the modulated signal from the other satellite receiver (that is on Ch 3 or 4) with the OTA signal.

[Mike500]

What's the big deal?

It's nothing that a cheap spliter and a few short cables won't do. As sttated above, the insternal "splitter" setup or so called "pass through" degrades the signal, even for those, who will never use it.

If the TV set has RCA inputs, use the converter for the DTV input and leave the direct antenna split signal directly to the analog tuner.

[n3ntj]

My little office Tv has only an RF jack. No RCA jack, so the signal input (from D* IRD and converter box) needs to be coaxial.

The Echostar unit appears to be good (based upon its specs and approx price), but not available until summer.

[n3ntj]

Wait a minute..

Can't I set my D* Tivo unit to output on ch 3 and the Digital Converter to output on channel 4 and then connect their outputs to a splitter with one feed into my office TV? Then just change b/w channels 3 and 4 on my Tv to change b/w D* and converter box. No
need for RF/analog pass through feature in this case.

[Cholly]

Your other option for your office TV: Why not just buy a small tube or LCD TV and be done with it? You can get a 13 inch tube SDTV at Wal-Mart for under $100, a 14 to 19 inch model for under $120. If the TV lasts five years, the cost is only $20-$24 a year -- that's $2 or less a month. 19 inch LCD HDTV's can be had for under $250.

[Grentz]

Wait a minute..

Can't I set my D* Tivo unit to output on ch 3 and the Digital Converter to output on channel 4 and then connect their outputs to a splitter with one feed into my office TV? Then just change b/w channels 3 and 4 on my Tv to change b/w D* and converter box. No
need for RF/analog pass through feature in this case.

Correct, that would work as well as long as you get a converter box that can output to coax (not all do).

[Jim5506]

Wait a minute..

Can't I set my D* Tivo unit to output on ch 3 and the Digital Converter to output on channel 4 and then connect their outputs to a splitter with one feed into my office TV? Then just change b/w channels 3 and 4 on my Tv to change b/w D* and converter box. No
need for RF/analog pass through feature in this case.

Some adjacent channel interference for one or the other RF modulator might be expected.

[Mike500]

The ch3/4 modulator does not work very well.

More costly, I prefer to use a digital agile UHF modulator and place the output at the high 60's UHF channels.

[scooper]

Here's a good tutorial on the problems with what you suggested - http://www.tvantenna.com/support/tutorials/signalcombiners.html

And this is what you REALLY need if you still want to do this -
http://www.amazon.com/Steren-Channel-3-Signal-Combiner/dp/B000JCWF16

Found this at Radio Shack that is just the ticket for you -
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049647&cp=2032057.2032187.2032188.2032200&parentPage=family

[harsh]

Your other option for your office TV: Why not just buy a small tube or LCD TV and be done with it?Perhaps because you can get a converter box and continue to use your existing TV for $0-20? I have a rather nice combo TV that it would cost quite a bit to replace with a digital tuner version.

I'm baffled as to why ATSC tuners double the cost of a small TV.

[Nick]

...I'm baffled as to why ATSC tuners double the cost of a small TV.It's the "early-adopter" syndrome.

[Cholly]

Perhaps because you can get a converter box and continue to use your existing TV for $0-20? I have a rather nice combo TV that it would cost quite a bit to replace with a digital tuner version.

I'm baffled as to why ATSC tuners double the cost of a small TV.

It's not the ATSC tuners alone that cost that much - it's the ATSC tuner, plus the rest of the HD receiver circuitry that makes up the cost. Remember, with those boxes, you have composite, S-video and component analog outputs, plus HDMI digital output and digital audio output, in addition to scaling circuitry

[camaro1944]

I am now working with the Chief Engineer from ABC TV, in Down Town Chicago, to see how to fix this problem. I live 30 Miles away, out in the suburbs, from Down Town Chicago. NBC comes in fine, because their Antenae is located on top of the Sears Tower. I have ordered both of the New HD-TV Antenaes from Phillips and TERK. If these New HD-TV Antenaes do not do the job, then I will have to find a DTV Converter Box with a built in Super Powerful Amplifier on their Antenae circuit. Does anyone know who makes these? The 2 TV Stations, ABC and CBS, that did NOT come in, may have to install more Powerful Broadcast Antenaes, either Down Town, or put up some New Antenaes for us Folks, out in the Suburbs. I have to get back to the Chief Engeneer, in Down Town Chicago, for an Update, when my Antenae research is done. :lol: :eek2: :nono: :hurah: :nono2:

[harsh]

My recollection is that for the Chicago market, you need to avoid "HDTV" (UHF only) antennas. A conventional full-range TV antenna is desirable as there is/will be a DTV channel broadcasting on the low VHF band.

[Nick]

...I have ordered both of the New HD-TV Antenaes from Phillips and TERK...
Be sure to get the newer polychromatic (color) models, not the older
monochromatic (B&W) versions. :p

[Jim5506]

Yea, I built my own antenna but I used the B&W instructions instead of the color ones. Next time I'll print the instructions in color.:D

[kf4omc]

I just picked up the Magnavox unit from wal-mart. Wow. Nice pic on my older TV. I baught a $9 indoor ant and I pic up every channel. Signal is on the edge because I do get alot of drop outs but the unit has a signal meter to help tune in the ant. I am in Ft lauderdale and I even pick up a few station from the West Palm Beach market. I have dish net work but I love the fact that I can now get local weather from my local Fox station on one of there sub channels.

[angiecopus]

I have a zenith and it works well for me, i get all the Cinci ohio channels wonderfull,
2 stations out of dayton have to have my attenia turned a certain way to get them
but its great to get digital channels on my 13 inch tv.

[Davenlr]

To the OP in Chicago...You don't want a TERK. Look at Channel Master and Winegard. Look for one with Low, High, and UHF. At 30 miles, you won't need a BIG one, a "suburban" model should do. www.starkelectronic.com or www.solidsignal.com should have what you need. Avoid anything amplified.