View Full Version : Problems Selling Used D* Receiver
rudeney
03-19-08, 02:32 PM
I just had D* pull an auction for an R15-300 I was selling. The reason they gave was “The rights owner, DirecTV, Inc., notified eBay that this listing violates intellectual property rights.” This was NOT a leased unit; I owned it. It was sent to me about a year ago as a replacement for a dead UTV under the PP. It was listed on my account as an owned unit and when I called to disconnect it, I specifically asked if I could sell it and was told yes. The only thing I can think of was that I was included the access card. Can anyone thing of another reason why they would pull listing?
Earl Bonovich
03-19-08, 02:33 PM
Re-List it with out the access card.
About February of 2006 (I think that is the right year, just knew it ws February)... eBay ammended their selling rules for DirecTV Access cards.... they are no longer allowed.
veryoldschool
03-19-08, 02:40 PM
A quick check of ebay shows several used H20s with access cards included. :confused:
HDTVsportsfan
03-19-08, 02:42 PM
Give 'em time.
curt8403
03-19-08, 02:42 PM
I just had D* pull an auction for an R15-300 I was selling. The reason they gave was “The rights owner, DirecTV, Inc., notified eBay that this listing violates intellectual property rights.” This was NOT a leased unit; I owned it. It was sent to me about a year ago as a replacement for a dead UTV under the PP. It was listed on my account as an owned unit and when I called to disconnect it, I specifically asked if I could sell it and was told yes. The only thing I can think of was that I was included the access card. Can anyone thing of another reason why they would pull listing?
Earl is right, in the listing for it, say Comes with No Access Card.
I was looking at ebay auctions and I find it a little comical... there is a seller who sells a "new" "leased" HR21-700 unit for $525 shipped with a 750G hard drive in it. His auction clearly states "leased" in the description. He probably bought from Costco for $169 and slaps a $140 HD in it, sells the 320HD on ebay for $75....
But it is a leased unit. Shouldn't an auction like that be pulled? I see it all the time... never see pulled... I thought leased units weren't supposed to be opened for starters... this guy is pulling down $250 before fees and shipping...
curt8403
03-19-08, 03:04 PM
I was looking at ebay auctions and I find it a little comical... there is a seller who sells a "new" "leased" HR21-700 unit for $525 shipped with a 750G hard drive in it. His auction clearly states "leased" in the description. He probably bought from Costco for $169 and slaps a $140 HD in it, sells the 320HD on ebay for $75....
But it is a leased unit. Shouldn't an auction like that be pulled? I see it all the time... never see pulled... I thought leased units weren't supposed to be opened for starters... this guy is pulling down $250 before fees and shipping...
the seller freaks when Directv charges him 400 and he cannot contest it.
Why, does Costco record the serial number at the register who bought etc. and fwd to D*?
trausch
03-19-08, 03:16 PM
I just had D* pull an auction for an R15-300 I was selling. The reason they gave was “The rights owner, DirecTV, Inc., notified eBay that this listing violates intellectual property rights.” This was NOT a leased unit; I owned it. It was sent to me about a year ago as a replacement for a dead UTV under the PP. It was listed on my account as an owned unit and when I called to disconnect it, I specifically asked if I could sell it and was told yes. The only thing I can think of was that I was included the access card. Can anyone thing of another reason why they would pull listing?
agree
trausch
03-19-08, 03:17 PM
agree
opps sorry
HDTVsportsfan
03-19-08, 03:18 PM
Why, does Costco record the serial number at the register who bought etc. and fwd to D*?
You have 30 days to activate the receiver. I beleive that is still the case.
As well as general auditing, inventory, and tracking purposes.
Stuart Sweet
03-19-08, 03:23 PM
I'd suggest reporting this to the eBay people, all we can do over here is laugh...
rudeney
03-19-08, 03:43 PM
I am thinking it is the access card that is at issue. Ironically, I just sold two old UTV’s with access cards without problems. Maybe I just got “lucky” on those and didn’t get caught. And it’s not that I am trying to “get away with” something. If the access card is an issue, I won’t include it. I have contacted D* at the e-mail address ebay gave. They responded quickly to verify the auction number for investigation. Hopefully they will give me the definitive answer just as fast.
I do wonder what the deal is with them, though. Maybe D* is just over-cautious because of the pirates that had figured out how to hack the old cards. I do remember many years ago trying to sell a used UTV with an older access card (P3?) and ebay cancelled it, but it was clear as to why. Their e-mail stated that since the P3 card was no longer used by D* and was only used for piracy, it was prohibited. I removed the card from the auction and re-listed it with no issues. And while we’re on the subject, these R15 go for maybe $45, but a working UTV can sell for over $100! Go figure!
As for the upgraded leased receivers for sale, my guess is that ebay doesn’t care about those because D* hasn’t told them what to scan for (keep in mind this is an automated process, not humans going over every posting). Besides that, many of those auctions are from power sellers that guarantee activation. Ebay gives its Power Sellers a lot of leeway. One of my hobbies is collecting and repairing Swiss watches. I know of at least one Power Seller that gets away with selling fakes year after year, but an individual seller that even hints that authenticity is undetermined will get his auction pulled every time.
Earl Bonovich
03-19-08, 03:56 PM
According to the rule change a few years ago...
It is because DirecTV will not re-activate a used access card.
Thus it has no value. and Ebay will not allow sales of something that has no value.
Try selling on Craigslist. I sold my owned R15 on there with access card and had no problems.
Craigslist is easier to deal with anyway as you don't have to worry about seller fees. I only use Ebay as a last resort.
william8004
03-19-08, 05:14 PM
According to the rule change a few years ago...
It is because DirecTV will not re-activate a used access card.
Thus it has no value. and Ebay will not allow sales of something that has no value.
One man's junk is another man's treasure.
I just had D* pull an auction for an R15-300 I was selling. The reason they gave was “The rights owner, DirecTV, Inc., notified eBay that this listing violates intellectual property rights.” This was NOT a leased unit; I owned it.
I had the same thing happen with some R15 power supplies I was trying to sell, they came out of owned units, they were pulled from ebay for the same reason, tried using the contact info in the email asking why the listing was pulled and got no response.
I do know it is a company that watches for certain listing, and Directv is one of there clients.
eBay is no help on this, they say you need to contact the company in the e-mail.
raoul5788
03-19-08, 07:24 PM
I just had D* pull an auction for an R15-300 I was selling. The reason they gave was “The rights owner, DirecTV, Inc., notified eBay that this listing violates intellectual property rights.” This was NOT a leased unit; I owned it. It was sent to me about a year ago as a replacement for a dead UTV under the PP. It was listed on my account as an owned unit and when I called to disconnect it, I specifically asked if I could sell it and was told yes. The only thing I can think of was that I was included the access card. Can anyone thing of another reason why they would pull listing?
Maybe you were using a Directv logo without permission?
armophob
03-19-08, 07:53 PM
.............. Ebay will not allow sales of something that has no value.
I have some real good evidence to the contrary of that in my house off of Ebay.:lol:
veryoldschool
03-19-08, 08:03 PM
I have some real good evidence to the contrary of that in my house off of Ebay.:lol:
!rolling
Earl Bonovich
03-19-08, 08:04 PM
I have some real good evidence to the contrary of that in my house off of Ebay.:lol:
If the auction is reported... it will be removed.
It is obvious they are not actively searching for them very hard
veryoldschool
03-19-08, 08:16 PM
If the auction is reported... it will be removed.
It is obvious they are not actively searching for them very hard
I think armophob found it useless after he bought it. :)
rudeney
03-19-08, 08:37 PM
According to the rule change a few years ago...
It is because DirecTV will not re-activate a used access card.
Thus it has no value. and Ebay will not allow sales of something that has no value.
Well, if ebay won’t allow the sale of items with no value, then half the sellers on there would be booted off :-)
Maybe you were using a Directv logo without permission?
I used no logos. I took my on photos of the actual item (as I always do). I didn't even cut and paste any of their specs – I wrote it all myself. One thing that I did do was explain the whole lease vs. own thing and point out the caveats of buying a leased receiver and how D* may not activate it.
armophob
03-19-08, 08:44 PM
If the auction is reported... it will be removed.
It is obvious they are not actively searching for them very hard
Sorry, I drifted off topic, the evidence was not cards, just useless junk bought in the a.m. while enjoying cocktails:D
flogduh
03-19-08, 11:36 PM
According to the rule change a few years ago...
It is because DirecTV will not re-activate a used access card.
Thus it has no value. and Ebay will not allow sales of something that has no value.
Uuhhh, a piece of popcorn that looks like Godzilla was sold. Where's the value there Earl...;)
Ext 721
03-20-08, 04:01 AM
I just had D* pull an auction for an R15-300 I was selling. The reason they gave was “The rights owner, DirecTV, Inc., notified eBay that this listing violates intellectual property rights.” This was NOT a leased unit; I owned it. It was sent to me about a year ago as a replacement for a dead UTV under the PP. It was listed on my account as an owned unit and when I called to disconnect it, I specifically asked if I could sell it and was told yes. The only thing I can think of was that I was included the access card. Can anyone thing of another reason why they would pull listing?
Take out the card.
Flip it over.
Read it.
Trust us all, you don't want to sell the card that's on YOUR account, any more than you want to sell your old expired credit card.
ThomasM
03-20-08, 08:06 PM
According to the rule change a few years ago...
It is because DirecTV will not re-activate a used access card.
Thus it has no value. and Ebay will not allow sales of something that has no value.
Sure they will. I have done it many times. BUT they will only re-activate it on the account of the user it was originally issued to.
It has no value (except perhaps for some illegal purpose) to a different person. If an OWNED DirecTV receiver is sold, DirecTV will activate it but they require the new owner to get a new access card directly from DirecTV which they ship overnight for a very modest charge.
Elephanthead
03-21-08, 11:45 AM
Just DTV making sure you are a satisfied customer. They do everything to make you feel that they have your interests first!
:hurah:
rudeney
03-21-08, 01:36 PM
UPDATE:
According to the e-mail below, there are two problems. One, they want the access card returned and two, only authorized dealers are allowed to sell DirecTV equipment. I have no problem with the access card issue, but I have a *HUGE* problem with not being allowed to sell a receiver that I own. I do not believe they have a legal right to prevent the sale of owned merchandise. This would be like Chevrolet not letting me sell my used Malibu because I am not an authorized dealer. It’s not legal to restrict such transactions. I am going to keep pushing this and may even contact a lawyer. Smells like a good case for a class-action suit to me!
Dear eBay Seller:
DIRECTV's Office of Signal Integrity is responsible for investigating any allegations concerning fraud and unauthorized use of satellite programming. We have received information regarding your on eBay for the sale of DIRECTV satellite equipment.
DIRECTV incurs considerable costs to provide satellite equipment and programming to its customers and thus, DIRECTV has significant interests in maintaining and securing the integrity of its programming. DIRECTV has no record of authorizing you to sell DIRECTV satellite equipment and we are concerned about the manner in which you obtained the DIRECTV satellite equipment listed in your auction.
Further, if you are selling the equipment with the DIRECTV Access Card, your attention is directed to the back of the access card, which clearly states the access card is the property of DIRECTV. DIRECTV incurs significant costs to provide satellite equipment and programming to its customers and has no record of authorizing you to sell these access cards.
If you are in possession of any DIRECTV Access Cards, please return them to the following address:
DIRECTV, Inc.
Attention: The Office of Signal Integrity P.O. Box 1080 El Segundo, CA 90245
If you are an authorized DIRECTV Dealer, then please notify us immediately so that we can update our records. Otherwise, you are hereby notified to cease and desist the sale of DIRECTV satellite equipment and any use of DIRECTV trademarks or brands.
DIRECTV takes all threats to the integrity of its business very seriously and intends to pursue vigorously all available legal remedies to protect its rights, including initiating legal proceedings in Federal District Court seeking the award of damages and other available relief when necessary. We would like to discuss this matter further with you. Please feel free to contact us via e-mail at directv@clients.comsecservices.com
Regards,
The Office of Signal Integrity
DIRECTV, Inc.
veryoldschool
03-21-08, 03:04 PM
While no one is questioning the card issue, ebay show these: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwineno
under "used".
Now how can something be "used" and yet still "new" [see that access cards are supplied with these used receivers.
JeffBowser
03-21-08, 03:05 PM
Oh boy, lawyer threats again. Why is it whenever anyone even feels the slightest bit wronged, their first thought is to grab a lawyer ?
Op - have you considered it might be a generic catch-all letter, and only the access card bit applies to you ? Try re-posting, sans access card, and with the words "owned receiver, NOT LEASED", if it is, in fact, an owned receiver.
rudeney
03-21-08, 04:26 PM
Oh boy, lawyer threats again. Why is it whenever anyone even feels the slightest bit wronged, their first thought is to grab a lawyer ?
I would never think to “grab a lawyer” except that’s exactly what D* threatened to do with me because I am trying to sell something that I own. Like I said, Gm can’t keep you from selling your used Chevy simply because you aren’t an authorized dealer.
Op - have you considered it might be a generic catch-all letter, and only the access card bit applies to you ? Try re-posting, sans access card, and with the words "owned receiver, NOT LEASED", if it is, in fact, an owned receiver.
There may be some parts of the letter that are generic, but the part that bothers me is this phrase:
“DIRECTV has no record of authorizing you to sell DIRECTV satellite equipment and we are concerned about the manner in which you obtained the DIRECTV satellite equipment listed in your auction.”
I guess this could be generic, but it sure sounds pretty specific to me.
I have replied stating that I will immediately return the access card and outlined how I did come to own this receiver. I referred them to lookup the information on my account given the receiver’s serial number. It will show that it is owned and not leased. I also reiterated to them that when I called to D/C the receiver, I specifically verified with the CSR that this was owned and asked if I could sell it and would the buyer have any problems with activation. She told me that I could indeed sell it, and that they new owner would have no problems activating it, but would be required to purchase a new access card.
The only reason I included the access card was so the buyer could immediately plug it in, turn it on and verify that it works by tuning to the “test” channels. Ironically, I just sold three old UTV units and all had access cards, clearly stated in the auctions, and nothing was done. My guess is they don’t care about the old UTV’s as most are on their last legs anyhow. I tend to believe the real issue is that D* is trying to prohibit the sale of the newer model receivers so they can maintain their high “lease fees”. Unfortunately for them, that is not legal when the equipment is owned and I will do whatever it takes to make sure that either they give me permission to sell this receiver or they can have a judge tell them they have to.
JeffBowser
03-21-08, 06:41 PM
Well, I don't know what to tell you, except that if e-bay decides you can't sell something, there isn't a darn thing you can do about it. There are whole websites out there devoted to the exact problem you are having - de-listing by copyright owner complaints, be it valid or invalid.
dodge boy
03-21-08, 07:58 PM
I bet it's the software....
Since nobody owns software, you just liscence it....
VLaslow
03-21-08, 08:17 PM
My belief, having had one auction removed from eBay by Microsoft (out of 175 that were fine), is that it's usually an automated process by the complainer (large scans of auctions). eBay won't change their minds, so roll with it and rewrite the auction.
the seller freaks when Directv charges him 400 and he cannot contest it.
If you purchase the unit from a retailer, have no existing contract with DirecTV, no matter how hard they try unless you signed something with an agreement they can't charge you anything.
The trick is if you have DTV service then you've already agreed to the 'lease' terms and are already included in those terms when purchasing a leased unit from costco etc.
Tivo had this problem long ago and started making people sign an agreement to activate at time of purchase.
UPDATE:
Smells like a good case for a class-action suit to me!
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Don't bother with class action.. The only one who gets anything is the lawyers.
I'll bet (not my own money!) that of all the folks on this forum, I've bought more DirecTV stuff than anyone else. Not exactly 'for me', but for lots of other folks (I have the time, have the paypal, think I know my way around a bit).
The listing errors are rampant on eBay.
1) Failure to list the FULL model number of the item they're selling, new or used (remember, this is the guy that has the thing RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM!)
2) Failure to be really clear as to whether or not the unit (open or 'new in box') has ever been activated or that the smart card is still in a sealed wrapper.
3) Confused about what exactly they're listing; interchanging model numbers and everything else throughout the listing. Some are so confused that I have to hold myself from laughing off the chair while reading the listing...!
4) Multiple listings of the same item
5) You name it.
I just got my 70th HR20 (both models, -700 and -100's) this last week. Things have pretty well died out the past month or so, and everyone I talk to is waiting now for the prices on the HR21 (whichever model/manufacturer) to drop and the AM21 to actually ship. Maybe a couple folks still 'thinking about it' when I make my rounds this weekend.
I've been extremely careful. NO 'used' items. NO 'open boxes'. NO shipping other than UPS/Fedex ground or better. NO payment other than Paypal. Equals NO problems. (Well, just about).
I had one unit that failed to arrive, and Paypal credited my account in less than a week. Fastest credit I've ever had with them in over 7 years. The 'seller' apparently dropped off the planet.
I see, like everyone else, all the 'wacky' things put up for sale. It is a wonder that DirecTV doesn't complain about lots of stuff there. But jeez, they'd have to have someone watching it 24/7 to really try and 'clamp down' on things. 'Buyer Beware' is the watchword, for sure.
On a lot of stuff, one can generally find good deals trotting out 'Pricegrabber', but for some reason this sat stuff has found a niche on eBay. I've found most of the 'authorized' DirecTV dealers to be just about as confused about things as the plain folks on eBay. So....
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