USA Today Article Slams DISH

[paja]

As if loyal DISH customers as myself weren't apprehensive before about DISH Networks direction, an article in todays business section(page 5B) of the USA Today gives reason for concern. Starting out mentioning the failed launch,it goes on to talk about the stock which the article points out has dropped 28% in the past year from $40 a share to $28.05. It also gets into the TIVO patent case.

I all, the article was negative and went so far as to call DISH subs "less affluent" than D subs. I'm sticking with DISH for the forseeable future, but some good news would be nice:(

[Slamminc11]

As if loyal DISH customers as myself weren't apprehensive before about DISH Networks direction, an article in todays business section(page 5B) of the USA Today gives reason for concern. Starting out mentioning the failed launch,it goes on to talk about the stock which the article points out has dropped 28% in the past year from $40 a share to $28.05. It also gets into the TIVO patent case.

I all, the article was negative and went so far as to call DISH subs "less affluent" than D subs. I'm sticking with DISH for the forseeable future, but some good news would be nice:(

Did they happen to mention that Dish split into two companies and also split it's stock into those two companies as well?

[normang]

Did anyone else happen to notice in USA today that Google is down from 700+ in January to 430 today..

The media today is filled with morons that spend their days trying to find the fastest way to fill a page, facts. perspective, and reality, what's that?

[DishSubLA]

Did anyone else happen to notice in USA today that Google is down from 700+ in January to 430 today..

The media today is filled with morons that spend their days trying to find the fastest way to fill a page, facts. perspective, and reality, what's that?

Ditto!

[Cap'n Preshoot]

Did the article happen to mention that DISH offers its customers advanced features, such as the 2nd room from a single receiver, a dual receiver operating from a single coax and OTA reception that D* has abandoned in its latest HD receivers?

[Stewart Vernon]

I wonder if USA Today also mentioned that print circulation has been going down over recent years for newspapers like itself... :)

[BonefishPaul]

I wonder if USA Today also mentioned that print circulation has been going down over recent years for newspapers like itself... :)

Amen, brother!

[phrelin]

Sorry guys, but USA Today, Wall Street Journal and a myriad of regional newspapers have picked up the "slow death of Dish Network" theme. It isn't true now, but it becomes a self-fulling prophecy if Dish doesn' get off it's "let's acquires some new neat technology company" butt and spend some significant money on retail marketing now. Since this thread has trended towards bashing USA Today rather than confront Dish's handling of PR, I'm repeating this post (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=122675) here.

:soapbox: I don't mean to be Chicken Little, but geesh.

Is Frank Caliendo soon going to be in commercials promoting what appears to be the rollout of Starz-On-Demand (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=123268) also mentioning NCAA March Madness Highlights On Demand. Where are the three news releases, one targeted to business media explaining its currently rolling out to customers, one to tech media explaining how it works, and one to the general media saying, oh yes, we've got on demand? Because somebody's got to do something about this major PR gaffe:

From the Wall Street Journal and making buzz around the media blogs: DirecTV to Start On-Demand (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120536817760332065.html?mod=rss_whats_news_techn ology):
In some ways, DirecTV's service is similar to a much more limited offering introduced by Dish Network Corp. last fall. That service also uses broadband connections to deliver on demand content, but is limited to pay movies. Dish declined to comment on the performance of the service since its launch.

Is my dismay misplaced? I think the news media informs the "soundbite" general population, which population will constitute at least 80% of the new "cable" customers over the next two years. The following are sample results of Dish Network's clever handling of the news media:

From the nationally circulated USA Today - Dish Network has a lot of problems on its plate (http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2008-03-19-ergen-dish-network-echostar_N.htm)

Reinforced by The Tulsa World - Satellite failure to cause Dish delays (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?articleID=20080318_5_E1_spanc83588)

As explained by the Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/5628401.html): Problems with a satellite launch will stop Dish Network from rolling out more HDTV coverage, analysts say.

And by the Madison, WI Capital Times (http://www.madison.com/tct/business/277960): While DirecTV has launched another satellite that will allow it to further expand its industry-leading high-definition lineup, DISH Network's HD expansion may be slowed by problems with a satellite it launched last week.

For the other 20% of possible new cable customers who read interest-focused media and further than the first paragraph, we have:

For business and investment types, the Wall Street Journal - Dish Network Dealt HDTV Setback as Satellite Falters (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120579870484943609.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)

For tech types, BetaNews - Dish Network satellite failure hurts HD rollout; TiVo suit reopened (http://www.betanews.com/article/Dish_Network_satellite_failure_hurts_HD_rollout_Ti Vo_suit_reopened/1205859135)

Am I the only one who thinks this is a critical time for Dish Network, the retail cable television competitor? Is Echostar, the cool wholesale technology company, somewhat above the retail fray? Doesn't Echostar need to spend about $60 million of Echostar money on effective consumer marketing, in addition to what is already planned by Dish, in the 6 months immediately after Dish Network soon turns on some significant popular ("popular" based on Nielsen ratings of new programming) national HD channels?

Am I the only one who thinks they don't even know how to engage their current customers? Don't they think that at some point when someone sees my Dish dish and asks about it, I'll be too embarrassed to promote Dish Network?

I just find the lack of effective PR and marketing appalling. But its only because I want them to succeed so I don't end up with two cool programming-filled external hard drives functioning as paperweights.
:rant:

[unr1]

I wonder if USA Today also mentioned that print circulation has been going down over recent years for newspapers like itself... :)rofl

:lol:

[Greg Bimson]

And I'm not going to exactly pile on here, but...

Dish Network had a net add of 310,000 subscribers in the first three months of 2007. Dish Network then had a net add of 365,000 subscribers the rest of the year, because more people were leaving Dish Network than had in the past. This includes the 195,000 net adds in the second half of 2007, which was the worst performance of the DBS companies since their inception.

So it isn't that Dish Network cannot draw customers; it is that they cannot keep them. This is a trend that must be reversed. Is it the cool technology that is the issue? Or, as the first poster put it, is it because Dish Network has more "value" customers that the value customers are leaving for other options, such as triple-play bundling and increased offerings from other providers?

[Stewart Vernon]

I find many articles that I read are terribly misinformed, or at least the writer makes them appear as such.

Dish does far less marketing and advertising than DirecTV, and yet has within a few million subscribers of the same customer count AND DirecTV had their DBS service up first. So it is hard for me to say that Dish is doing anything "wrong" in terms of their marketing strategy. They have been growing the business and catching up to their most direct (pun intended) competition in the process.

I look outside and I just don't see the sky falling.

Dish has some things they could do better... and are lagging in HD right now... but HD customers are really such a minority of their business at the moment (same for DirecTV) that Dish has plenty of time to catch up again. This is the same reason why DirecTV didn't go under while they were behind... because HD customers are vocal but not plentiful. By the time the demand for HD is truly there, Dish will be in business and ready to go.

[WebTraveler]

A

So it isn't that Dish Network cannot draw customers; it is that they cannot keep them. This is a trend that must be reversed. Is it the cool technology that is the issue? Or, as the first poster put it, is it because Dish Network has more "value" customers that the value customers are leaving for other options, such as triple-play bundling and increased offerings from other providers?

Okay for me, I am considering leaving:

1. Upgrade options for current customers are pretty pathetic. I can save MORE by going to Directv with rebates, etc. on the equipment.

2. Lack of HD channels overall and a skeptical future.

3. If I bundle it with Qwest I will save $9 under my current configuration - and pick up a few channels that I don't have. I lose a few, including CSTV and ESPNU unless I get the sports pack (which for Directv is $12, which overall is a rip off)

4. Service technicians that cause nothing but trouble for me. No shows, late, etc. (Maybe its not better at Directv, maybe it is) If I do make the switch I am going to a local retailer that will install it themselves.

5. Uncertainty on DVRs

ETC.

I just don't see the committment from Dish to me. Frankly, I don't think they care what I want, need, or have any desire to keep me as a customer.

I am also getting tired of this hardball with everyone - Dish is suing everyone for everything. They are the neighborhood bully.

[HobbyTalk]

4. Service technicians that cause nothing but trouble for me. No shows, late, etc. (Maybe its not better at Directv, maybe it is) If I do make the switch I am going to a local retailer that will install it themselves.

http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13512_1-9891779-23.html
http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13512_1-9894067-23.html
http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9896534-1.html

Be sure to read the comments left by others.

[Slamminc11]

...Dish is suing everyone for everything. They are the neighborhood bully.

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around, but whatever you want to believe...

[Ray_Clum]

3. If I bundle it with Qwest I will save $9 under my current configuration - and pick up a few channels that I don't have. I lose a few, including CSTV and ESPNU unless I get the sports pack (which for Directv is $12, which overall is a rip off)

4. Service technicians that cause nothing but trouble for me. No shows, late, etc. (Maybe its not better at Directv, maybe it is) If I do make the switch I am going to a local retailer that will install it themselves.

By the way, if you do 3, you can't do 4, or visa versa...

[Presence]

It is nice to see this thread is not riddled with Dish fanboy comments. For once.

I have had Dish since 1997. And I am not too stupid and/or blind to see Dish slowly tanking. Just about everything I have read in the WSJ, USA Today and others is accurate.

[Kent Taylor]

I am also getting tired of this hardball with everyone - Dish is suing everyone for everything. They are the neighborhood bully.

Do you have information on any suit in which Dish Network is the plaintiff?

[jclewter79]

Do you have information on any suit in which Dish Network is the plaintiff?

We have heard mention that Dish is sueing ESPNews but, that nis the only one in recent history that I have seen. I think somebody has their story backwards.

[James Long]

Dish is suing everyone for everything. They are the neighborhood bully.I'm pretty sure it's the other way around, but whatever you want to believe...DISH is usually the defendant ... but they have sued others. They have won a couple of times when sued as well.

We have heard mention that DISH is sueing ESPNews but, that nis the only one in recent history that I have seen. I think somebody has their story backwards.The ESPN case is current ... Trial is set for May 14th. The other two current NY cases are NFL and Voom (separately) suing Echostar.

Just because DISH is the defendant doesn't mean they didn't play "bully" and force the plaintiff to "see them in court" --- but yeah, they are not usually the ones doing the suing.

BTW: Being the defendant doesn't guarantee they did anything wrong either. :)

[Slamminc11]

DISH is usually the defendant ... but they have sued others. They have won a couple of times when sued as well.

The ESPN case is current ... Trial is set for May 14th. The other two current NY cases are NFL and Voom (separately) suing Echostar.

Just because DISH is the defendant doesn't mean they didn't play "bully" and force the plaintiff to "see them in court" --- but yeah, they are not usually the ones doing the suing.

BTW: Being the defendant doesn't guarantee they did anything wrong either. :)

Webtravelers statement was that "Dish is suing everyone for everything. They are the neighborhood bully." Which is an untrue statement. Dish get sued what 10-1 over suing someone? I was just pointing out the guys statement was untrue.

[bobukcat]

It is nice to see this thread is not riddled with Dish fanboy comments. For once.

I have had Dish since 1997. And I am not too stupid and/or blind to see Dish slowly tanking. Just about everything I have read in the WSJ, USA Today and others is accurate.

I think any reports of E*'s demise are seriously premature, they are very stable and, while things may not be going their way right now, they were the leader in technology and HD for a long time, it's just swung the other way right now.

When I read articles or posts saying they are doomed I always picture Charlie as John Wayne in "Big Jake":

Bad Guy: "I thought you were dead."

The Duke: "Not Hardly!" :box:

[phrelin]

I think any reports of E*'s demise are seriously premature, they are very stable and, while things may not be going their way right now, they were the leader in technology and HD for a long time, it's just swung the other way right now.Sure it's premature. Sure they lead in technology - and HD is just a matter of time. Dish Network, a retail company, doesn't lead in marketing skills. That's a serious long-term problem.

But I am not considering leaving after 20 years and won't, unless a week from Friday SciFi HD has not been turned on.;)

[bidger]

But I am not considering leaving after 20 years and won't, unless a week from Friday SciFi HD has not been turned on.;)

DISH didn't hit the market until 1996.

[Kent Taylor]

DISH didn't hit the market until 1996.

Echostar has been around since 1980.

[JohnL]

Echostar has been around since 1980.

TulsaOK,


Quite correct, although before 1996 all Echostar hardware was BUD (Big Ugly Dish) or C-Band receive Dish's to use signals from other providers satellites. These BUD's were 8 to 12 foot dishes.

In 1996 Echostar Launched their own Satellites and started Dish Network service on High Power Ku-Band DBS frequencies, by signing agreements to retransmit other companies content on their own satellites to Dish Network subscribers.

John

[Richard King]

Echostar has been bundling programming packages for the BUD (Big Useful Dish) since about 1990 (or so). While a person could have been a hardware customer for more than 20 years, they couldn't have been a programming customer before "about" 1990 (or so).

[Clarkson TV & Appliance]

I don't know where some of you people get your info. 1) You CAN have your DirecTV installed by a local retailer and STILL bundle. 2) Dish does cater to the value customer, and does NOT care about you once you have signed. One thing is true, both companies have lousy "professional installers" They are no more than glorified cable runners. Some of us in the industry still care about doing quality installs for our customers.

[bills]

I don't know where some of you people get your info. 1) You CAN have your DirecTV installed by a local retailer and STILL bundle. 2) Dish does cater to the value customer, and does NOT care about you once you have signed. One thing is true, both companies have lousy "professional installers" They are no more than glorified cable runners. Some of us in the industry still care about doing quality installs for our customers. i agree with you on cable runers,both companys do have installers who know what they are doing,but are in a minority,most just don't have a clue. just my opinion....regards

[Jim5506]

Both dish and Direct are under market pressures.

They could hire well trained, skilled satellite dish installers, but the general public will not pay for them.

So, we get what we ask for and deserve, installers who don't know anything about the product, they just cut and patch cables.

After a while skilled installers get so frustrated with the corporate beaurocracy that they move on.

[paja]

i agree with you on cable runers,both companys do have installers who know what they are doing,but are in a minority,most just don't have a clue. just my opinion....regards


When I switched to DISH last Feb. the installer who came out did a neat professional job. I have had zero problems since the system was put in.

[Kent Taylor]

TulsaOK,


Quite correct, although before 1996 all Echostar hardware was BUD (Big Ugly Dish) or C-Band receive Dish's to use signals from other providers satellites. These BUD's were 8 to 12 foot dishes.

In 1996 Echostar Launched their own Satellites and started Dish Network service on High Power Ku-Band DBS frequencies, by signing agreements to retransmit other companies content on their own satellites to Dish Network subscribers.

John

Yes, I've been a Dish customer since May, 1996.

[phrelin]

DISH didn't hit the market until 1996.Sorry I haven't been around here much this weekend.

Yes Dish didn't hit the market until 1996. But I did become an Echostar customer in 1988 - big old C-band dish with an Echostar box. Didn't change to "Dish" until 1998 when my second box died and I was going to have to take the Dish down soon for building repairs anyway.

My heart's with Echostar, the technology company, not Dish Network the retailer. And 20 years is a long relationship with a brand.

I don't like retailers such as the Comcasts and "New" ATTs of the world. I am afraid that Dish Network is becoming one of the latter, perhaps not by choice. I guess I still long for the "old" AT&T with its Bell Labs.

The thing about Dish Network is that if it's going to compete in an iPod world, IMHO it needs an effective professional marketing/pr opearation that deals 24/7 with every media problem and takes advantage of every media opportunity.

Over the long haul, Echostar doesn't need that kind of media orientation. And I fear Dish Network will be compromised by Echostar's management orientation.

[phrelin]

Nonetheless, (DirecTV's) pricey "100-channel" campaign--even competitors admit--was successful in creating a perception that DirecTV is at the forefront of HD programming. From Media Daily News (http://publications.mediapost.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.san&s=78933&Nid=40688&p=907213).

The new retailer Dish Network, along with the new Echostar, continues to project its outdated "pioneering" image which is irrelevant to retail. Echostar continues its effective pioneering technology path by spending $711 million on sizable amounts of spectrum in the government’s 700-Megahertz wireless spectrum auction.

Unfortunately, my provider is Dish Network, not Echostar. When Dish Network becomes "not-so-profitable" because it isn't spending enough on image-creation marketing, who is Charlie going to sell us to when he goes into some satellite-based 700-Megahertz wireless innovative program?

I know I'm paranoid, but that doesn't mean he isn't out to sell me to get capital to do some fun stuff.:mad:

[mattfast1]

JohnL, very correct. Except, as you said yourself, prior to 1996 there WAS no Dish. There was DirecTV, and there was satellite TV (C-band, et al.).

There are still some BUDs in existance - mostly in non-CONUS (continuous US) areas.

[phrelin]

JohnL, very correct. Except, as you said yourself, prior to 1996 there WAS no Dish. There was DirecTV, and there was satellite TV (C-band, et al.).

There are still some BUDs in existance - mostly in non-CONUS (continuous US) areas.Actually, in our area of Northern California there are still a number of BUDs, including one on my neighbor's roof blocking my sunlight (grumble, grumble, grumble). At least mine was mounted on a deck so that the only person who complained to me for 10 years about it being ugly was my wife.:sure:

[James Long]

There are still some BUDs in existance - mostly in non-CONUS (continuous US) areas.I was not aware that anyone had done a count lately. Are you referring to home customers subscribing via Big Useful Dishes or just taking a random guess based on what you see out your window?


(Definition of BUD stolen from Richard King because I like it!)

[phrelin]

Are you referring to home customers subscribing via Big Useful Dishes...?


(Definition of BUD stolen from Richard King because I like it!)Love that definition. One could keep busy just exploring what signals were on at any point in time.

[Paul Secic]

I find many articles that I read are terribly misinformed, or at least the writer makes them appear as such.

Dish does far less marketing and advertising than DirecTV, and yet has within a few million subscribers of the same customer count AND DirecTV had their DBS service up first. So it is hard for me to say that Dish is doing anything "wrong" in terms of their marketing strategy. They have been growing the business and catching up to their most direct (pun intended) competition in the process.

I look outside and I just don't see the sky falling.

Dish has some things they could do better... and are lagging in HD right now... but HD customers are really such a minority of their business at the moment (same for DirecTV) that Dish has plenty of time to catch up again. This is the same reason why DirecTV didn't go under while they were behind... because HD customers are vocal but not plentiful. By the time the demand for HD is truly there, Dish will be in business and ready to go.

In retrospect I should have waited another year to buy a HD set. Oh well....

[James Long]

In retrospect I should have waited another year to buy a HD set. Oh well....Hopefully sometime in the next year you will see something on one of the channels you get that will make it all worth not waiting.