Cost of MFH-1 to MFH-2 upgrade? What needs to be done in-home?

[hellyea]

I know there's a lot of installers on here, so thought I'd ask. My HOA is in a fight with our SysOp right now over the upgrade charges for MFH-1 to MFH-2. They did the "upgrade" at no charge to the HOA but is charging residents $75/port of the SWM that they use, plus a $50 labor charge. This is in conflict with our contract.

They claim that the cost of upgrading the building was $40,000. Does this sound about right? Or are they inflating their costs?

Secondly, what actual work would they need to do in each unit - isn't it just a restart? They claim "[SysOp] will still need to enter the unit to program, activate and verify signal integrity to the MFH-2 backbone."

Are they just trying to add a labor charge to offset their costs? Thanks.

[Earl Bonovich]

We (they) are going to need some more details about the installation.

How many units are in your complex?
Do you know how much equipment was installed?
How much time was done on their time?


The actual work for each unit.... $75 does appear to be the standard, but that has typically included the labor as well.

And yes... for each unit, there is probably work that has to be done.

They will have to connect the unit to the SWM units...
Make sure they have a compatible SWM IRD... Connect the unit to the SWM input... Reboot... and make sure it is working correctly.

Most definently they are trying to offset some of their costs with the $75.

[hellyea]

But how much work actually has to be done in the home? The SWM is in a central comm closet, not in each unit. We told them to write up a "self install" for the portion of the upgrade that needs to be done in the residents home. They are trying to avoid this as they can't collect money for it.

The building is 50 stories and 450 units. I dont know how much add'l equipment was installed. Time was about 3 hours.

[Earl Bonovich]

But how much work actually has to be done in the home? The SWM is in a central comm closet, not in each unit. We told them to write up a "self install" for the portion of the upgrade that needs to be done in the residents home. They are trying to avoid this as they can't collect money for it.

The building is 50 stories and 450 units. I dont know how much add'l equipment was installed. Time was about 3 hours.

In the unit.... probably anyone that can connect a vcr can do the work there.

It would be the OUTPUT from the wall, to the marked input on their D12, H21, R16, or HR20/21.... and then reset the box.

However... the signal to the UNIT (home), probably is not connected to the new system... as that is the ultimate way they can control it. So... depending on how they wired it... they may be installing splitters or something in the unit... no way to tell for sure from "my end" of the situation.

--------------------

Hmmmm.... 450 units... let's figure, 2 tuners allocated for each unit. 900 tuners.

So about 125ish SWM modules... plus the core units, to feed the SWM's...
That is a lot of equipment if it was wired up like that (total estimates here on my part)...

$40k... might be on the low end....

But 3 hours to put it all together? that is way low... 3 days maybe...
That is a lot of equipment to install.

It is also possible, they put in the core... and will expand it as people call... which then would play into the $75 + $50 they want to charge you.

[Slowhand]

Here are a few points to consider:
1, If you lived in your house and wanted to upgrade the antenna on your house from standard definition to HD you would normally have to pay for the upgrade. I know that there are deals that DirecTV has that greatly reduce the costs if you recommit to DirecTV but keep in mind that your sysop is not DirecTV and can not pay for upgrades to your system without someway of recouping his money.

2. The sysop is not charging the hoa for the upgrade. There are many people in the hoa who do not subscribe to DirecTV and they would resent having to pay for the upgrade to your satellite system. This way the one's who pay for the upgrade are the one's who are connected to DirecTV.

3. When the upgrade is done there are several things that may have to be done in the units. Any destackers and b-band converters would have to be removed. Also the proper splitters would have to be installed that are compatible with SWMs. If unit owners are trying to do self installs in the home then I could see major problems. Here is a likely scenario. The sysop comes out at 1 o'clock to switch the wires from the MH-1 system to the MFH-2. At 6 pm the unit owner comes home and finds out his DirecTV box does not work and he must do all the things on your checklist. At 9 pm the sysop starts getting calls from irate subscribers telling them they don't have tv reception and they are now going to miss this weeks Lost episode. They say that he must get out there immediately to fix the system.

4. One final point. Most SWM count is done at a 30% penetration to start. That would mean 30% of 450 units times 4 devided by 8. This would mean by my calculations 75 swms. A rack chassis can hold 6 swms. There are line amps, taps, power inserters also needed. The costs adds up real quickly.

How is your sys op handling the upgrade of your receivers? Finally how is the service that your sysop is providing your system. All these factors determine the costs that the sysop has and the costs that he must charge you to keep providing good service to you.

Slowhand

[doctor j]

$125 to upgrade to 150 plus national plus local HD eventually???
Get Over IT !!!!

In a typical MDU environment , each unit is allocated 1/2 of a SWM unit.

A a minimum if you were to share a SWM unit with a "friend" a residental customer will spend at least 1/2 of $300-$400.

$125 is a BARGIN. JEEEEEESH

Doctor j

[DirecTv Chicago]

Equipment alone in a 450 unit building, with SMW-8, Chassies would be $40,000 not counting labor, cable and other charges. However you don't need to build out the entire building.

For example you have a 450 unit building of which on a high end 60% is probably interested in the new HD channels. Depending on the demographics that number could be higher or lower. Why for the time being switch tenants out to the MFH2 system if they are not going to be interested in getting the new HD channels?

What I generally do is figure in a general cost for the backbone of the system and run two simulatenous networks. The existing stacked or MFH1 and then run new vertical cabling for the MFH2. That way the 80 year old couple who doesn't even know what HD is yet is not forced to switch over and you don't have to incur the cost of them taking space on the SWM-8.

Every company has a right to charge what they want and every building has a right to find another operator if they are not happy. $75.00 is high just for the SWM port allocation but you should expect to pay something. Our company, at this time, does not charge for allocation of the SWM's but there may come a time where we may have to.

What you need to realize is that a SWM-8 only has 8tuners and the more receivers you have the quicker that fills up hence the more equipment the SO has to install at his cost if he does not charge for SWM allocation. In the major cities, expecially Chicago, it is not unheard for the average tenant to use 6-8 tuners just to themselves. So you can see how quickly that can fill up.

[Slowhand]

$125 to upgrade to 150 plus national plus local HD eventually???
Get Over IT !!!!

In a typical MDU environment , each unit is allocated 1/2 of a SWM unit.

A a minimum if you were to share a SWM unit with a "friend" a residental customer will spend at least 1/2 of $300-$400.

$125 is a BARGIN. JEEEEEESH

Doctor j

I read the original post to mean that the charge to the subscriber was $75.00 per swm port. This would mean that if the subscriber had an HD DVR and another HD receiver it would cost the subscriber 75 x 3 = 225.00 plus the 50 set up fee for a total of $275.00 for the upgrade to the MFH-2 system.

My question was who pays for the upgrade of the receivers. For my customers we have to charge the customer because DirecTV makes us pay for them and my company has to then provide the warranty if the receiver has problems.

Slowhand

Slowhand

[hellyea]

Here are a few points to consider:
1, If you lived in your house and wanted to upgrade the antenna on your house from standard definition to HD you would normally have to pay for the upgrade. I know that there are deals that DirecTV has that greatly reduce the costs if you recommit to DirecTV but keep in mind that your sysop is not DirecTV and can not pay for upgrades to your system without someway of recouping his money.

2. The sysop is not charging the hoa for the upgrade. There are many people in the hoa who do not subscribe to DirecTV and they would resent having to pay for the upgrade to your satellite system. This way the one's who pay for the upgrade are the one's who are connected to DirecTV.

3. When the upgrade is done there are several things that may have to be done in the units. Any destackers and b-band converters would have to be removed. Also the proper splitters would have to be installed that are compatible with SWMs. If unit owners are trying to do self installs in the home then I could see major problems. Here is a likely scenario. The sysop comes out at 1 o'clock to switch the wires from the MH-1 system to the MFH-2. At 6 pm the unit owner comes home and finds out his DirecTV box does not work and he must do all the things on your checklist. At 9 pm the sysop starts getting calls from irate subscribers telling them they don't have tv reception and they are now going to miss this weeks Lost episode. They say that he must get out there immediately to fix the system.

4. One final point. Most SWM count is done at a 30% penetration to start. That would mean 30% of 450 units times 4 devided by 8. This would mean by my calculations 75 swms. A rack chassis can hold 6 swms. There are line amps, taps, power inserters also needed. The costs adds up real quickly.

How is your sys op handling the upgrade of your receivers? Finally how is the service that your sysop is providing your system. All these factors determine the costs that the sysop has and the costs that he must charge you to keep providing good service to you.

Slowhand

Let me respond to a few people's questions and points --

1. We just got D* last year, so everyone with an HD rcvr has the H20 or HR20 - so there is no need to switch out receivers. If someone on an SD wants HD, he pays the $99 or $199 (h21/hr21).

2. It is $75 per PORT -- so if you have a HD-DVR and an HD --> 3 ports = 225 plus $50 install.

3. The biggest issue is that these charges are in conflict with the contract between the Sysop and the HOA. They are req'd to provide the access and internal wiring required for customers to rec'v all directv programming. The SWM's are undoubtedly internal wiring. They are not in the residents' units.

[DirecTv Chicago]

Let me respond to a few people's questions and points --

1. We just got D* last year, so everyone with an HD rcvr has the H20 or HR20 - so there is no need to switch out receivers. If someone on an SD wants HD, he pays the $99 or $199 (h21/hr21).

2. It is $75 per PORT -- so if you have a HD-DVR and an HD --> 3 ports = 225 plus $50 install.

3. The biggest issue is that these charges are in conflict with the contract between the Sysop and the HOA. They are req'd to provide the access and internal wiring required for customers to rec'v all directv programming. The SWM's are undoubtedly internal wiring. They are not in the residents' units.

The issue with contracts is they are a legal document. And although legal documents are supposed to be cut and dry they can be interpreted in various ways. I am going to play the devils advocate here. Is there programming that you can not receive on your previous system? Is there a specific channel that they are not providing you because they have not upgraded to MFH2. Now keep in my that SD and HD is not programming. It is a format in which that programming is being delivered. Regardless of the format that station can be delivered to you one way or another.

[woodybeetle]

The issue with contracts is they are a legal document. And although legal documents are supposed to be cut and dry they can be interpreted in various ways. I am going to play the devils advocate here. Is there programming that you can not receive on your previous system? Is there a specific channel that they are not providing you because they have not upgraded to MFH2. Now keep in my that SD and HD is not programming. It is a format in which that programming is being delivered. Regardless of the format that station can be delivered to you one way or another.

Ok, devils advocate the second here.

Point 1, a SWM only has 2 ports on it total, it can support up to 8 tuners.

Point 2, MFH1 system gives you all the Dtv channels in the lineup currently, the fact that they are not in the foirmat you want is not the SO's fault.

Point 3, The SO seems to be trying to work with the HOA on the cost of the upgrade. The SO did not want nor did they ask DTV to change the way they deliver the bulk of their HD programming. We are reacting to it.

Point 4, $40,000 , that is a great price for the MFH2 system. The charges being passed to the end users is fair, We charge more in our market.

Point 5, The typical end user has no earthly idea what is involved in the install. check to make sure all wallplates pass 2.5 Gigs, remove all customer devices, add appropriate splitters, add appropriate diplexors as needed, rewire to all DVR's as needed, for download as needed. And lord forbid find and remove all hidden 1 Gig splitters in the system. Sounds like a deal to me at the price they are charging.

Point 6. They are charging well under the fair market rate for 1 hour of a commercial/MDU technicians on site time(not counting travel time)
:)