HSP Wants Phones Hooked Up

[s57061b]

I am a lead Tech OJT for a HSP. I have never faild a QC. It just Tees me off to no end when my suporvisor calls and says , were going to start cracking down on the no responder rate. So I told him if you guys would man up and stop over booking time frames I might have a chance to run a few. Just today 8-12 AM time frame 4 room basic , 2 room basic, service call. 12-4 PM ka/ku upgrade, 4 room with ka/ku Whos got time to run phone lines. They cant even route us like DTV wants it done and have the nerve to say were cracking down on phone lines.
Am I crazey for feeling this way.

[RobertE]

Welcome to the wonderful world of HSP work. :(

[s57061b]

I know Right

[joe diamond]

Uh?
I do phone repairs...and was a low bidder. My rate just for phones is(was) $60.00 for a first hour and $40.00 for each additional hour. This is to correct in-house problems, run jacks, rerun lines on the cx side of the NID.

Folks with copper wire, land line phones are declining in numbers. That "non responder" crap is just a way HSPs ask you to accept less for your work.

Joe

[Birdman79]

I am a lead Tech OJT for a HSP. I have never faild a QC. It just Tees me off to no end when my suporvisor calls and says , were going to start cracking down on the no responder rate. So I told him if you guys would man up and stop over booking time frames I might have a chance to run a few. Just today 8-12 AM time frame 4 room basic , 2 room basic, service call. 12-4 PM ka/ku upgrade, 4 room with ka/ku Whos got time to run phone lines. They cant even route us like DTV wants it done and have the nerve to say were cracking down on phone lines.
Am I crazey for feeling this way.

That's what i am hearing too.If my HSP starts to really press the issue then It's ADDIOS for me.If DTV wants me to run phone lines then they got to pay for my time!!!...........GET PAID!!!!!!!!:nono2:

[hogon41]

HSP's dont care about the Techs.

I was an OJT for the local HSP, and never hooked up a phone line and had no problems until January when they took me off of new installs and had me running upgrades, which pay less and are more of a hassle, just because my non responder numbers were high.

And looking at the turn over rate for techs and the people that they "train" to become techs, all I can say is that their attitude is that any moron can run lines and hook up a dish, and if one leaves then we can contract another.

[joe diamond]

HSP's dont care about the Techs.

I was an OJT for the local HSP, and never hooked up a phone line and had no problems until January when they took me off of new installs and had me running upgrades, which pay less and are more of a hassle, just because my non responder numbers were high.

And looking at the turn over rate for techs and the people that they "train" to become techs, all I can say is that their attitude is that any moron can run lines and hook up a dish, and if one leaves then we can contract another.

Exactly!

"Captain?"
"Ice ahead sir...shall we change course?"
"No,,,we are unsinkable"
"But sir..?"
"Close the door.".........and get a mop...there is water on my deck."
"That is the water from the sea...we are sinking"
"We are unsinkable...get out!"
"Number two.........how did this water get on my deck?"
"We are sinking, sir."
" We are unsinkable"
"Yes sir,"
"NOW HEAR THIS! ANY BODY WHO THINKS WE ARE SINKING IS DISLOYAL AND WILL BE PUT OFF AT THE NEXT PORT WE HIT."
"Number Two.............we shall need more crew. The last bunch just hopped in a lifeboat and rowed away."
"Where is everybody?"


So it goes in HSP land.

Joe

[BattleZone]

HSP's dont care about the Techs.


You got that right.

Just this week, I learned that a company that I warned NOT to go to work for the local HSP is bankrupt. This company had been doing satellite work for at least 5 years, and had a good reputation. The owner was excited about his "big new contract" with the local HSP.

5 months later, he has lost $80,000. Over $50,000 was in charge-backs for receivers that he didn't get installed within 30 days of checking them out. Of course, the HSP only checks out receivers by the pallet, and insists that you don't run out, but they might arbitrarily cut your route by 2/3's for a few weeks. Now you're drowning in receivers and have to pay their bogus charge-backs.

That's just one example of dozens. Every company that was working for our local HSP a year ago is either bankrupt (and owes its employees money that it will never recover from the HSP) or left the area. The HSP has successfully managed to get about 10% of the former contractors to be in-house techs, but most have had no choice but to move on to another industry. I know at least half-a-dozen techs who have lost their homes due to not being paid from multiple contractors, who themselves were crushed by the HSP.

Remember: the HSPs see their contractors as their direct competition. Thus, it is in their best interest to keep contractors as weak as possible, so they keep throwing more and more hurdles for their contractors to jump through, and when that isn't enough, they all-out sabotage their contractors by either routing them far out of their home area or just not routing them at all.

Of course, no one knows that going in, and the prospect of good paying work is too enticing for most people to listen to any warnings, but anyone working for an HSP is getting screwed daily, and most will get screwed in a huge way eventually.

[Canis Lupus]

Man I really feel sorry for what you guys have to go through.

Here you are, on a forum, spending your own free time helping people without any compensation except the thanks from users you help online, only to be forced to post these types of threads because HSPs and MSPs can't recognize there are good people in this industry who should be supported and paid well!

Instead, you guys have to post here just to find some relief and some empathy from your comrades, all the while also helping Joe Average here, plus dealing with customers in the field in an already difficult job.

I can only hope DirecTV reads these threads and decides it's time to allow you guys to run the show.

All I can say is I'm glad you people are here.

[jdogg]

it is always the techs fault, i tell them if they wouldnt over book me and give me more money i would beable to do everything that a install needs, i dont do jacked up work but you always here were cracking down, it is thw wtl's who get the phone line bouns, they keep adding crap to the list that you have to do and still give me three am's and are pissed when i cant make times or they are mad that you didnt hook up phone lines even though the customer said they didnt want phone lines all over the house and why should i go out of my way to hook them up. i try to get them when i can but i not bustin my ass for a line that the customer will unpulg as soon as i leave

[s57061b]

Guys thanks for the support. Mabaye one day DTV will put one of us instllers in charge of all the HSP CO and let some one who has actually did installs run the show instead of some one that has a 4 yr paper that says they can do anything caues they went to school

[Incompetent]

Its not a 4 year paper, Its capital and its infrastructure (or at least the perception of infrastructure).

Alot of the current HSPs are just smaller companies that have been purchased and combined much like mom and pop cable companies were in the late 80s and 90s.

Just like any company that gets that big, there will be alot of efficiency problems. Who gets bitten the worst? The customer and the person servicing the customer.
No one else in the chain really has to do any work.

I digress..... mostly before I rant myself :-P

Just know i have been installing for D* (contracting and working for HSPs) for almost 10 years. I have installed D* in over 33 states and have worked for just about everyone.

What they say is true, find a local guy, pay a little more, and be very very satisfied.

[ironwood]

New smart homes dont have phone jacks anymore. They have cat5 jacks together with coax outlets. You still can hook a phone base somewhere on the kitchen and then use 8 wireless handhelds in the other rooms.................. According to DTV and HSP I have to run phone lines to 5 rooms outside the brand new home and then drill holes and put new phone biscuits. Can you imagine doing something like that in your new home???

[DishCSR]

Guys thanks for the support. Mabaye one day DTV will put one of us instllers in charge of all the HSP CO and let some one who has actually did installs run the show instead of some one that has a 4 yr paper that says they can do anything caues they went to school

I totally agree with this, this is also true on the csr side of it, oh you have a degree? , you can be a trainer or a supervisor, nevermind the fact that you never spent any time on the phones or even know what a satellite is or how it sends signals to the dishes, etc......

[Luke_Y]

I dont get it, I thought we didnt need the phone line anymore (-ppv)... Whats the big deal to them?

[BattleZone]

I dont get it, I thought we didnt need the phone line anymore (-ppv)... Whats the big deal to them?

PPV *is* the big deal, as is your TV-watching habits. DirecTV makes a ton of money on PPV, and most of it comes from people with phone lines connected, because that makes it much easier to "impulse buy" a PPV.

They also sell (anonymous) viewing data from DVR users, but they can only get that info from receivers that are connected to a phone line (or, for the HD-DVR, to the Internet).

DirecTV *wants* this revenue, so they *want* the receivers connected. And they pay (the HSP) enough to get it done; the HSPs just don't pass the money on to the installers.

[jdogg]

my hsp says we get 40% allowed for cell phone only and for people who use vop and for people who dont have a home phone. i think it makes me mad Most homes are cell or vop phone how can i hook those up? in DTV view it is my fault if all my installs for a week are cell or vop only. but i get 40% may be back when every one had one dish and there were only land line phones.

[Thaedron]

New smart homes dont have phone jacks anymore. They have cat5 jacks together with coax outlets. You still can hook a phone base somewhere on the kitchen and then use 8 wireless handhelds in the other rooms.................. According to DTV and HSP I have to run phone lines to 5 rooms outside the brand new home and then drill holes and put new phone biscuits. Can you imagine doing something like that in your new home???

I would tell you to get out of my house.

[carl6]

Most homes are cell or vop phone how can i hook those up?

Actually, most homes are still regular land line by a pretty fair majority. But you are correct in that more and more are changing over.

Cell is a problem, but you should be able to hook up a VOIP line and have it work in at least half the attempts (many variables involved).

Carl

[ironwood]

Actually, most homes are still regular land line by a pretty fair majority. But you are correct in that more and more are changing over.

Cell is a problem, but you should be able to hook up a VOIP line and have it work in at least half the attempts (many variables involved).

Carl

My experience most existing customers do have land lines so when I upgrade a receiver I can hook up a phone. New customers or mover connections I see vast majority cell phone users, some weeks 100%. Especially younger folks.

Also varies by location. It makes sense to get a phone in New York City when you paying 25 bucks for basic service that covers 15 million people. In small towns people pay more for local are coverage of 2000 people. Unless their cell service also sucks they dont need land lines.

[ironwood]

I would tell you to get out of my house.

Why so rude? On one side HSP warns me about importance of phone hooks up (or I am fired). On the other side angry customer who will either ask me to get out or complain to Directv and file a damage claim (I am fired anyway).

[TigersFanJJ]

Why so rude?

I think he was being nice about it. :D

[PAJeep]

They also sell (anonymous) viewing data from DVR users, but they can only get that info from receivers that are connected to a phone line (or, for the HD-DVR, to the Internet).



Thats why everyone needs to opt out of this. The website was previously broken so you had to call to opt out however I think its fixed now.

[satguy22]

dtv loves this kind of thing, they can buy these company out cheep andtake over there area and make money anyway they want. Goofd or bad.

[awblackmon]

I install in an area where land lines are just not being installed. Customers are getting DSL without dial tone, and using their cell for calling. Oh, on occasion I will have dial tone in the house, but the majority of my installs are cell phones. Some voip, but less and less land line. This last week we were told hook up or we could be looking for a job. I really resent that kind of talk. There is an attitude of we don't care there is not dial tone, hook it up. Sure waste my time for something that just isn't working, won't be working and just is plain stupid to make threats to me about if I don't do it.

We were told Directv calls and asks how far away a phone jack is. If it is less than 25 feet we were supposed to hook it up. Problem is, it may not be working, and if it is, is past at least one door way and most likely two and a closet with a sliding door. Who wants a 25 foot cord run past all that? I guess I could drill another hole, run the wire, and be at the install another 30 min to and hour doing it. But then the dial tone generally isn't there to warrant all that extra work, but I am being threatened of my job if I don't. It doesn't make any sense!

[RobertY]

I`ve been a D* customer for about 10 yrs never had a phone line, what are they for i think they get paid to tell what people are watching.:eek2::eek2::eek2:

[wildbill129]

New smart homes dont have phone jacks anymore. They have cat5 jacks together with coax outlets. You still can hook a phone base somewhere on the kitchen and then use 8 wireless handhelds in the other rooms.................. According to DTV and HSP I have to run phone lines to 5 rooms outside the brand new home and then drill holes and put new phone biscuits. Can you imagine doing something like that in your new home???

I have one of those new "Smart" homes. You are correct. I have Cat5e jacks throughout, no RJ10 jacks for phone. A phone RJ10 will plug into a RJ45 and work fine if the jack is wired correctly. The advantage is you can configure them either for phone or lan, they are all home run to a media panel.

[HoTat2]

I have one of those new "Smart" homes. You are correct. I have Cat5e jacks throughout, no RJ10 jacks for phone. A phone RJ10 will plug into a RJ45 and work fine if the jack is wired correctly. The advantage is you can configure them either for phone or lan, they are all home run to a media panel.

I think you meant "RJ11/14" :)

And sometimes "RJ25" is included as "RJ11/14/25" since they all use the same 6PXC modular plug.

(X = 2-6)

[wildbill129]

I think you meant "RJ11/14" :)

And sometimes "RJ25" is included as "RJ11/14/25" since they all use the same 6PXC modular plug.

(X = 2-6)


You are right....I was drunk when I wrote that....:grin:...I meant RJ11 = phone, RJ45 Lan....(The RJ10 is usd in the handset)

[gen2rx7]

I am a lead Tech OJT for a HSP. I have never faild a QC. It just Tees me off to no end when my suporvisor calls and says , were going to start cracking down on the no responder rate. So I told him if you guys would man up and stop over booking time frames I might have a chance to run a few. Just today 8-12 AM time frame 4 room basic , 2 room basic, service call. 12-4 PM ka/ku upgrade, 4 room with ka/ku Whos got time to run phone lines. They cant even route us like DTV wants it done and have the nerve to say were cracking down on phone lines.
Am I crazey for feeling this way.


Well not to be a jerk but just run your phone lines and keep the fat route, I have seen a lot of changes and now I am only doing 2-3 jobs a day. It's siebel that won't let a tech have more than 8 hours of work in a day! My income has dropped enormously over the last 4 months! This has not sat well with me. I would gladly trade you routes any day! And I would gladly run a phone line. Or I would grab a lot of wireless phone jacks!

But what I found for me was if I ran every phone line I could I would always pass the non responder report, and that was when we had to have 60% of phone lines connected, now it is only 30% connected! Looks like your boss might be messing with you with the 60% number, just to cover their butt from charge backs.

[joe diamond]

Well not to be a jerk but just run your phone lines and keep the fat route, I have seen a lot of changes and now I am only doing 2-3 jobs a day. It's siebel that won't let a tech have more than 8 hours of work in a day! My income has dropped enormously over the last 4 months! This has not sat well with me. I would gladly trade you routes any day! And I would gladly run a phone line. Or I would grab a lot of wireless phone jacks!

But what I found for me was if I ran every phone line I could I would always pass the non responder report, and that was when we had to have 60% of phone lines connected, now it is only 30% connected! Looks like your boss might be messing with you with the 60% number, just to cover their butt from charge backs.

Ah, the Siebel system!
This is the routing system that says even though there is no bridge you are only three miles from a job so go do it.
Even though all jobs are different it knows when it has dealt out eight hours worth. The last HSP subcontractor I worked for (and he will always be the last) told the HSP we were planning on a 75% responder rate.

Even though computer programs are tools, there are folks who will use them to avoid taking responsibility for their actions. Siebel says . . .

Joe

[ndole]

I'm not sure whether or not to hope that our HSP goes hourly. I'd hate to be tied to a flat rate and production numbers, but gese! 8 hours!? I'm only going to do about 23k this year! I might as well go back to working at the darn gas station!
As far as phone lines go, I'll do them gladly if only I were PAYED.FOR.IT

[Shades228]

I'm not sure whether or not to hope that our HSP goes hourly. I'd hate to be tied to a flat rate and production numbers, but gese! 8 hours!? I'm only going to do about 23k this year! I might as well go back to working at the darn gas station!
As far as phone lines go, I'll do them gladly if only I were PAYED.FOR.IT

Wireless phone jacks are on your custom labor sheet and you can get PAID.FOR.IT

[ndole]

Wireless phone jacks are on your custom labor sheet and you can get PAID.FOR.IT

Nobody wants the phone lines hooked up anyhow! Why in the world would they pay[out the nose] for it?
What custom labor sheet? Don't you know that it's a "free" installation? lol

[Stormtech]

Phone line would be no problem if we had single with phone like we used to but cheaper is better. As far as Siebel 3.5 years and it still has the same major flaws. I have rarely every seen my work by 8pm and mostly at 8am when I should be on one of my first 3 jobs and all jobs being 2 hours away make it a joke to precall install phone line and gear at all towards customer satisfaction. This is an issue every week and all the tech will ever see is upper management passing the buck. We are technicians and good at what we do. Given the proper supplies and W.O. on time as promised for 3.5 years we will have happy customers better quality work much more phone responder short of cell service only. I hate driving south 1 hour to get equipment when I need to drive 2 hours north to get to my first of 3 am's at 11am now I have become the customers vent/punching bag. Come on big dog you want us to please you have to do your part too!

Sorry just the reality:(

[jdspencer]

Are phone lines still required 2 years since the original post? :)

[BattleZone]

Of course they are!

Granted, things have gotten somewhat easier with SWM systems. With a SWM system, if any receiver in the system is connected to either a working phone line or to the Internet, all receivers will be able to "phone home". That helps a lot when the only phone line is in one of the bedrooms, etc.

But phone lines are still disappearing at an amazing rate, and you'd be surprised at how many people have high-speed Internet but no router, or have their router somewhere far away from any receiver.

[john18]

DirecTV *wants* this revenue, so they *want* the receivers connected. And they pay (the HSP) enough to get it done; the HSPs just don't pass the money on to the installers.

Which is the best reason I have heard for why they are willing to offer ICK's for a total of about $76.00 and do anything and everything else to bring the system up to current standards. By being hooked to the net they have their ability to gather and then sell their anonymous data.

[satguy22]

Dont you undersand it is DTV"s way of get the job done cheeper and cheeper. Charge backs is thier way out of paying a fair wage as it once was and to make most installers afraid to say anything. We once had a billboard here that promised $50,000 a year for installers. It was right next to the cable co. And it was for DTV installers.

[Shades228]

Atleast MRV is helping with this some.

[Manctech]

I've found that land phone lines are dependant on the area. In low economic areas with good cell phone towers almost no one has land based lines.

In areas where cell phone coverage is lacking there is almost always a landline.

My problem is I install satellite not phones. More than once I've run new lines to the nid and either messed up their phone and internet. DSL usually is a problem with or without filters.


luckily as a service tech phone lines don't matter since I get 1-2 installs a month.

what really gets me hot is they expect me to bring all jobs up to code on every service call. no grandfathering anything in. for example company policy is ground block before every multiswitch despite dtv saying you can bond with the ms as long as it is UL listed.

So every service call that is bonded with a MS has to have a ground block.

And don't get me started on the Countless DIY installs from 10 yrs ago.

They expect us to bring everything up to spec but give me 6-8 service calls a day.

Flat out it is impossible. Luckily if it is a new install that isn't very old the original tech has to reroll to fix it because he got paid 65+ to install it and I only get 27$ a service call.

Finally got the point where I just screw it. If the job is close to up to code I make sure it is.

And don't get me started on the switch to galvanize ground straps that I have to put on EVERY pole mount installed in the past 10 years....



/RANT

[Matt9876]

I'm not sure whether or not to hope that our HSP goes hourly. I'd hate to be tied to a flat rate and production numbers, but gese! 8 hours!? I'm only going to do about 23k this year! I might as well go back to working at the darn gas station!
As far as phone lines go, I'll do them gladly if only I were PAYED.FOR.IT

It makes me angry they expect you to know everything,do everything, work in million dollar homes and pay next to nothing to have it all done.

Don't worry about going hourly it will never happen because they may have to start treating you like a real employee.

Last two places I worked wouldn't supply a work van,The interview I'm going on today sounds like more of the same bull a 1099 and they expect me to supply everything and pay next to nothing in return.

Update:After wasting two days of my life found out the job required a Business License,Liability Insurance,Unemployment Insurance,agreement to be back charged,a 1099.a release to them of any liability and a $40 per job base pay.:(

Forgive me for saying this but the world has gone to hell and I fear for the future of the US !!