One receiver gets signal, other does not

[BigSteve]

I have a strange problem. Here's the setup:

Living room -- H20-100 (non-DVR), one tuner/one coax cable, great signal strength
Basement -- HR20-700, two tuners/two coax cables plugged in, great signal strength

The access card reader in the HR20-700 in basement dies. While waiting for the replacement, I move the H20-100 to basement to watch my big screen TV. Signal strength is perfect; all is well.

Replacement HR20-700 is received. I unplug the the H20-100 in the basement and plug in the new HR20-700 in basement. I run through the HR20-700 system setup and get 0's on all transponders, all sats. Hmmm. B-band converters are plugged in properly, all cables are seated properly, satellite options set properly during setup... checked this at least 5 times.

Plug the H20 back in to basement to make sure it was still ok. Gets perfect signal strength. Hmmmm.

Take new HR20-700 to living room. Plug it in there and... perfect signal strength. So I know the replacement HR20-700 is capable of getting a signal since it works in the living room. Only difference between the two rooms is that the living room only has a single coax cable vs. two coax cables in basement. So, I'm only plugging into one of the HR20-700's tuners in the living room.

Question is, if the HR20-700 works in the living room, why won't it work in my basement... the H20-100 works like a charm in the basement???

FWIW, I have re-plugged in the b-band converters over and over... no dice.
I have tried just plugging in one coax in basement instead of both... no dice.
I have swapped out b-band converters with a new set... no dice.
There is no multiswitch involved.
Weather is clear.
It is reasonable to say that I know what I am doing... I'm not a noob to DirecTV (just this forum).

Tech is visiting Thursday morning. God help me. :nono2:

[MONSTERMAN]

I have a strange problem. Here's the setup:

Living room -- H20-100 (non-DVR), one tuner/one coax cable, great signal strength
Basement -- HR20-700, two tuners/two coax cables plugged in, great signal strength

The access card reader in the HR20-700 in basement dies. While waiting for the replacement, I move the H20-100 to basement to watch my big screen TV. Signal strength is perfect; all is well.

Replacement HR20-700 is received. I unplug the the H20-100 in the basement and plug in the new HR20-700 in basement. I run through the HR20-700 system setup and get 0's on all transponders, all sats. Hmmm. B-band converters are plugged in properly, all cables are seated properly, satellite options set properly during setup... checked this at least 5 times.

Plug the H20 back in to basement to make sure it was still ok. Gets perfect signal strength. Hmmmm.

Take new HR20-700 to living room. Plug it in there and... perfect signal strength. So I know the replacement HR20-700 is capable of getting a signal since it works in the living room. Only difference between the two rooms is that the living room only has a single coax cable vs. two coax cables in basement. So, I'm only plugging into one of the HR20-700's tuners in the living room.

Question is, if the HR20-700 works in the living room, why won't it work in my basement... the H20-100 works like a charm in the basement???

FWIW, I have re-plugged in the b-band converters over and over... no dice.
I have tried just plugging in one coax in basement instead of both... no dice.
I have swapped out b-band converters with a new set... no dice.
There is no multiswitch involved.
Weather is clear.
It is reasonable to say that I know what I am doing... I'm not a noob to DirecTV (just this forum).

Tech is visiting Thursday morning. God help me. :nono2:

It could be as simple as just reseting your receiver from menu or last case scenario (RBR). I had this happen when 1 tuner wasn't being recognized, just did a reset and perfect.

:rolleyes:

[BigSteve]

It could be as simple as just reseting your receiver from menu or last case scenario (RBR). I had this happen when 1 tuner wasn't being recognized, just did a reset and perfect.

:rolleyes:

I've reset about 5 times, plugged and unplugged power at least 4 times, forced software upgrade (02468) with the living room connection and tried downstairs... none of this worked.

[K4SMX]

Obviously, that -700 doesn't like being relegated to the basement! You can prove this yourself. Just run an extension of the single cable in the living room down to the basement, and you'll see it just doesn't like being in the basement. :)

Seriously though, this may be a power issue. When you hook up the -700 in the basement, is the -100 connected and plugged in at the LR location? If so try disconnecting it completely when you boot the -700 downstairs.

We have seen this issue before. The -100 has a grounding power cord, and the -700 does not. If you have different DC switching voltages appearing at the LNB's multi-switch because of power flowing on the neutral line, -700's and -100's sometimes don't "play well together."

[BigSteve]

Seriously though, this may be a power issue. When you hook up the -700 in the basement, is the -100 connected and plugged in at the LR location? Nope.

[K4SMX]

Please see what happens if you run the -700 in the basement off of an extension cord plugged in upstairs.

[GTS]

I had a similar problem. It turned out to be a matter of the DVR not outputting a high enough current level to run the LNB. I know this doesn't sound right, but it turned out that the cable run was "out of spec" as far as length from the LNB. The HD and std receivers worked just fine at this location, but the HR wouldn't. Long story short, used a polarity locker and lo and behold all was functional again.

Good Luck

[K4SMX]

..... The HD and std receivers worked just fine at this location, but the HR wouldn't......
Which HR was that?

[carl6]

Are you connecting both coax inputs to the HR20? I assume you are. Have you tried swapping the two coax, then resetting the HR20? It is possible one of the two feeds is bad, and you have just by the luck of the draw ended up having the bad one connected to tuner one of the HR20.

Carl

[BigSteve]

Have you tried swapping the two coax, then resetting the HR20?
Yep.

[BigSteve]

I had a similar problem. It turned out to be a matter of the DVR not outputting a high enough current level to run the LNB. I know this doesn't sound right, but it turned out that the cable run was "out of spec" as far as length from the LNB. The HD and std receivers worked just fine at this location, but the HR wouldn't. Long story short, used a polarity locker and lo and behold all was functional again.

Good Luck

You've given me an idea. When troubleshooting the basement -700 not working, I have never had both receivers plugged in at the same time. Perhaps by plugging in the -100 in the living room, that will be enough to power the LNB? I could then plug in the -700 down in the basement and it might work because the -100 is feeding enough juice to the LNB?

This is quite possible because the basement run is rather lengthy. And I've always had the living room plugged in at the same time as the basement... never had just the basement receiver plugged in alone before.

I am psyched to try this when I get home. Thanks for all of the ideas, guys!

[houskamp]

might be time for a powered multiswitch, that would definately help a long run..

[GTS]

Which HR was that?

HR20-700

[TigersFanJJ]

Have you tried an exorcist? :lol:

[BigSteve]

...Perhaps by plugging in the -100 in the living room, that will be enough to power the LNB? I could then plug in the -700 down in the basement and it might work because the -100 is feeding enough juice to the LNB?

I am psyched to try this when I get home.

It still didn't work. I'll post tomorrow after the tech solves the problem. I'll be sure to tell him about the polarity locker that was mentioned above by GTS.

[K4SMX]

Did you get a chance to run an extension cord from an upstairs outlet to the basement -700?

[TigersFanJJ]

It still didn't work. I'll post tomorrow after the tech solves the problem. I'll be sure to tell him about the polarity locker that was mentioned above by GTS.

The service tech probably won't have and probably won't be able to get his hands on a polarity locker. That is somthing that you will probably have to pick up on your own.

[BigSteve]

Did you get a chance to run an extension cord from an upstairs outlet to the basement -700?

No. I assume you just mean trying to plug the -700 into an outlet that's on a different circuit breaker? I'm confused as to the purpose of this.

[BigSteve]

Tech came out and he was the best I've ever seen. He immediately went to the dish and checked the lines. Was getting static on one of them. Went to basement and checked each connection along the way using his little voltage tester (I wish I had had one of those.)

He discovered that the problem was I had used the gold crimp-on coaxial terminators on both ends on my coax cable run from the basement smart panel to behind the wall where the TV in the basement is located. I had finished the home theater room myself and apparently I didn't know what I was doing when it came to picking out the terminators. He explained that stores try to push everything gold on people when it comes to cables, but for DirecTV coax, gold was a no-no. Gold is great for audio, but not DirecTV. This might be common knowledge to those of you reading this, but I had no idea. At the time, I just bought the first thing I saw on the shelf at Home Depot.

He snipped off the gold terminators and replaced using silver ones. Plugged everything in and it worked like a charm. Strange that the -100 didn't mind the gold terminators, but whatever. I guess the -700 is just a sensitive beast.

Moral of the story: use the cheap silver terminators for DirecTV HD DVR.

Thanks everyone for your input and ideas.

[GTS]

Glad to hear you're back up.

[randyk47]

Also glad to hear you're back up and running. Got to say though that something about this gold versus silver business just doesn't quite make sense but it is what it is and he fixed whatever the problem was for you. I use "gold" terminals/connectors throughout my DirecTV system, especially with my DVR without a bit of trouble. Now I don't have any terminators in my system so maybe that's the difference. Maybe I'm too much of a "non-techie" to understand the potential impact. Live and learn I guess.

[Hansen]

I don't think the fact that it was gold or silver had as much to do with the problems as the fact that crimp connectors were used instead of compression connectors. Those crimps are trouble makers.

Good to see you got it resolved.

[eakes]

Whether crimp or compression fittings are used, the important issue is that they be installed correctly. It is very easy to get a stray strand of shield wrapped around the center conductor or to not have a good contact with the shield. No doubt compression is better but any connection can be done improperly.

[Draconis]

If I remember correctly "crimp" connectors are a no-no as they change the dimensions of the dielectric inside the cable.

Every HSP I have spoken to uses "compression" connectors.

You may find this an interesting read.

http://www.sencore.com/newsletter/May02/SNCoaxialCable%20Part%20I.htm

[BigSteve]

Now I don't have any terminators in my system so maybe that's the difference.
Perhaps I mispoke... by terminators, I mean connectors.

The strangeness in all of this is that my previous HR20 and the -100 both had no problems with my crimp-on connectors, but the replacement -700 couldn't deal with them.

Begin rant...
I am just so f'ing fed up with DirecTV. This is replacement #3 of this piece of crap HD DVR. It has gotten to a point that I cross my fingers when I turn my TV on. Their phone support is atrocious. I have had technicians show up late, take cigarette breaks out at their van, stain my carpet. Yesterday, I was given the 8am-12pm window and the tech showed up at 6pm because the original guy bailed on me. So I had to take a day off of work for this POS hardware that they can't get right.

And the only reason I stick with them is because they have a monopoly on the NFL season ticket. I hate myself for sticking with a company 365 days a year for 16 f'ing football games.
End rant.

[Hansen]

Begin rant...
I am just so f'ing fed up with DirecTV. This is replacement #3 of this piece of crap HD DVR. It has gotten to a point that I cross my fingers when I turn my TV on. Their phone support is atrocious. I have had technicians show up late, take cigarette breaks out at their van, stain my carpet. Yesterday, I was given the 8am-12pm window and the tech showed up at 6pm because the original guy bailed on me. So I had to take a day off of work for this POS hardware that they can't get right.

And the only reason I stick with them is because they have a monopoly on the NFL season ticket. I hate myself for sticking with a company 365 days a year for 16 f'ing football games.
End rant.


While I understand your frustration and arguably things should work a whole lot smoother with DirecTV, didn't you put that gold crimp connector on the cable that caused the issues? :shrug:

[randyk47]

My cable connectors from the dish to the wall plate are all the resin filled silver crimp type and were installed by the HSP just last September so not all HSP's are using compression fittings unless that's a recent mandate. The wall plate connectors and all cables from there are "gold" and supplied by me. My gut is telling me there was some kind of short or poor connection and the DVR was just more sensitive to whatever the issue was rather than the type of connector. I do count myself one of the lucky ones with an HD DVR that has worked almost perfectly since day one.

[BigSteve]

While I understand your frustration and arguably things should work a whole lot smoother with DirecTV, didn't you put that gold crimp connector on the cable that caused the issues? :shrug:

The crimp on connectors WORK with the previous HR20 and a -100. The key word being "work", in the present tense. They do not work with the replacement -700. I think it's more fair to point the finger at the new -700.

Hansen, I initially thought the same thing you were thinking: it was my fault for using the crimp-ons. But the more I thought about it.... and I hopefully have beaten this dead horse enough and will move on with my life :) ... a hardware replacement should not require me to replace working cables.

Hansen, let me be clear that any frustration you read into my reply comment is aimed at DirecTV, not you.

[Clarkson TV & Appliance]

Any competent installer uses ONLY certified compression fittings. Cheap? I beg to differ as I buy them in bulk and pay over a dollar each, compared to .20 for regular crimp connectors. Also, wire length a factor. As to the different power supplies in one receiver vs the other: This is a DC circuit, ground is ALWAYS ground and the positive voltage has nothing to do with the internal AC power input. I am not only an installer and repairman, but a CET as well. Weasel

[K4SMX]

..... As to the different power supplies in one receiver vs the other: This is a DC circuit, ground is ALWAYS ground and the positive voltage has nothing to do with the internal AC power input......
I devoutly wish this were the case. Please see this (http://www.lightningconsultants.org/iread/strpgrnd.htm) informative exposition on the subject, particularly the section titled "Shared Neutral and Ground Conductors," which specifically refers to switched-mode power supplies in electronic equipment.

The LNB's operate off a DC voltage between the center coax conductor and the service ground, whereas the voltage is actually developed by the receivers with reference to the neutral line at that particular outlet. The receivers are plugged in to all sorts of different branch circuits, some of which can have different neutral line potentials than the service ground.

[TigersFanJJ]

Any competent installer uses ONLY certified compression fittings. Cheap? I beg to differ as I buy them in bulk and pay over a dollar each, compared to .20 for regular crimp connectors.

:bonk1: OUCH!

You need to look at getting your connectors from a different supplier. I buy in bulk and pay around $.13 a piece for for the EX6XL, which is now the only rg6 connectors that are Directv approved.