View Full Version : Is tivo the only DVR in the world with a "working" season pass?
had a tivo on cable years ago and it was truly awesome to only have to press record season once and automatically have my episode there to watch every week.
up until getting directv last week I had a DVR with time warner and it too was pathetic in the season pass department, it recorded all episodes no matter what so I had to manually record each episode of every show every week.
when I got the HR21 I was hoping it was more intelligent but it too records every episode even when I select "first-run" only...Ive tried so far with 4 different shows on various channels and I get repeats all throughout the week.
If you say it's the networks fault for bad guide data, why did it work with the tivo?
I'm not lazy the thing I hate about it is when I forget to record 1 of my favorite shows...it's a bummer.
spartanstew
04-12-08, 10:29 PM
Not to imply that you're not experiencing an issue, but neither of my HR21's (nor my HR20) have missed a recording since I've owned them.
houskamp
04-12-08, 10:40 PM
What shows is it messing up on?
Not to imply that you're not experiencing an issue, but neither of my HR21's (nor my HR20) have missed a recording since I've owned them.
I'm not saying it misses recordings, I'm saying I want it to record first-run episodes ONLY and it records every single repeat as well(Ill have 5 of the same episode of every show every week...which forces me to manually record each show each week instead of using the season pass.
sbelmont
04-12-08, 10:56 PM
I'm not saying it misses recordings, I'm saying I want it to record first-run episodes ONLY and it records every single repeat as well(Ill have 5 of the same episode of every show every week...which forces me to manually record each show each week instead of using the season pass.
I have the same issue with certain shows.(Example is Setup on Speed) Has to do with bad gude data. They all are labeled as first run but without details to show they are the same episode. I had the same issue with tivo on one show. Solved it by telling it to keep only one episode and keep until I delete. Unfortunately that logic does not work with the D* boxes.
Something else you should know, with the D* boxes when you set up a series link as first run only it always records the episode that you use to set up yhe series link, even if it is a repeat.
RunnerFL
04-13-08, 12:35 AM
It all depends on the guide data. If the program you are recording doesn't have guide data that flags it as a repeat then it will record. You can thank the channel that broadcasts the show for that, not the HR21 or DirecTV.
It all depends on the guide data. If the program you are recording doesn't have guide data that flags it as a repeat then it will record. You can thank the channel that broadcasts the show for that, not the HR21 or DirecTV.I think that applies to both Tivo and HR2x. But I think what the OP is saying is that Tivo obeys the rules, while his HR2x maybe not so much, for the same shows, guide data beside the point. This would not be the first report.
What are the shows you're recording and on what networks? My girlfriend records The Hills on MTV and that network is a disaster. Not only do they not have the episode names listed in the guide (so the DVR can identify them), they can't ever start of finish a show on time. You shouldn't have any problems with the major networks, but you will with the stations that don't provide enough information for the guide.
inkahauts
04-13-08, 03:49 AM
had a tivo on cable years ago and it was truly awesome to only have to press record season once and automatically have my episode there to watch every week.
up until getting directv last week I had a DVR with time warner and it too was pathetic in the season pass department, it recorded all episodes no matter what so I had to manually record each episode of every show every week.
when I got the HR21 I was hoping it was more intelligent but it too records every episode even when I select "first-run" only...Ive tried so far with 4 different shows on various channels and I get repeats all throughout the week.
If you say it's the networks fault for bad guide data, why did it work with the tivo?
I'm not lazy the thing I hate about it is when I forget to record 1 of my favorite shows...it's a bummer.
What channels and what shows? If its a news show, its not bad guide data... News shows are always considered new and never repeats, even though some are. And by the way, shows like the daily show is considered a news show....
Tivo worked by only looking for the show during the hour of the day that you set it to record. That is why it did not record all showings of the same show all day long. It would look at the hour before or after in case of a time change, but that was it. It did not use guide data the way everyone else does. (replaytv worked the same) If you wanted to catch all episodes no matter what time you would have to set up a wishlist and then the tivo would act like an hr2...
What we really need is an option to choose what days and what time frames a show will look for so we can narrow it down or not depending on what show and preference we want.... Check out my proposal here....
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=125757
Thaedron
04-13-08, 05:43 AM
I consider Tivo the "gold standard" in recording reliability. It records what you tell it to period.
The HR2Xs are Very Good, but there are some well documented cases where the recording reliability is pretty flakey ("HR20 without a Blue's Clue" is one example). Most of these examples are shows that run multiple times per day/week. Anyone who says "my HR2X has never missed a recording" may be entirely correct, however they simply may not record any of the show types that experience these problems.
Personally, I have had a Go Diego Go Season Pass / Series link that records flawlessly on my R10 and HR21-100, but frequently misses an episode on my HR20-100.
IMO the HR2Xs have a working season pass / series link, they just aren't perfect.
bonscott87
04-13-08, 06:26 AM
Tivo worked by only looking for the show during the hour of the day that you set it to record. That is why it did not record all showings of the same show all day long. It would look at the hour before or after in case of a time change, but that was it.
Actually this is totally incorrect. Tivo will only do this if you setup a manual record at a specific day and time (same as the HR2x). Tivo (and the HR2x) is not "timer" based with it's season passes, it is program based and doesn't care what time of day it is. If Tivo did what you are saying it would never catch time changes of shows as they move to a different day or time period by the network. And this is one of the big things that Tivo (and the HR2x) do.
Right now I can go to my Tivo and setup a season pass for Sportcenter on ESPN or The Daily Show on Comedy or pretty much anything on MTV and it will record several times a day even when set to first runs. Why? Because the guide data provided by those networks is incomplete and doesn't properly flag first runs.
bonscott87
04-13-08, 06:28 AM
To the OP, what programs and networks are you having issues on? Also note that on the HR2x receivers, when you first setup a series link it will always record the episode you setup the series link on, even if it doesn't qualify (say it's not a first run). This is because when you hit record the first time it's setting up that episode. The second time it sets up the series link but of course the single episodes is still set to record. After that it should function just fine outside of those programs/networks that don't provide complete guide data.
I have over 70 series links across two HR2x's and have never had a problem with first runs outside bad/poor guide data over a year and a half.
Just to add... I have to set up the same manual recordings on my HR's and my TiVo HD unit because neither of them will get first run on many shows that don't provide accurate guide data from the networks.
Comedy Central is one of the biggest culprits, and I probably e-mail them at least once a month asking when they're going to start providing accurate guide data. I suggest that if it's an issue for you you drop an e-mail to the network as well.
RunnerFL
04-13-08, 08:15 AM
I think that applies to both Tivo and HR2x. But I think what the OP is saying is that Tivo obeys the rules, while his HR2x maybe not so much, for the same shows, guide data beside the point. This would not be the first report.
It applies to both however both don't interpret the guide data the same way.
spartanstew
04-13-08, 09:38 AM
I'm not saying it misses recordings, I'm saying I want it to record first-run episodes ONLY and it records every single repeat as well(Ill have 5 of the same episode of every show every week...which forces me to manually record each show each week instead of using the season pass.
Sorry, yes, I understood. I meant to say I haven't had any of the problems you're describing (when I set it for first-run, that's all it records). However, I've heard there's certain shows this happens with, so more details would be helpful.
jersey73
04-14-08, 05:15 AM
I have an HR-21 and only ever had one season pass mess-up. Otherwise, it has been great!
The one mess-up, the first new episode back from the strike of "Big Bang Theory" didn't record...but from what I understand, it was a DirecTV guide issue that many people had as well.
inkahauts
04-14-08, 05:19 AM
Actually this is totally incorrect. Tivo will only do this if you setup a manual record at a specific day and time (same as the HR2x). Tivo (and the HR2x) is not "timer" based with it's season passes, it is program based and doesn't care what time of day it is. If Tivo did what you are saying it would never catch time changes of shows as they move to a different day or time period by the network. And this is one of the big things that Tivo (and the HR2x) do.
Right now I can go to my Tivo and setup a season pass for Sportcenter on ESPN or The Daily Show on Comedy or pretty much anything on MTV and it will record several times a day even when set to first runs. Why? Because the guide data provided by those networks is incomplete and doesn't properly flag first runs.
Sorry, I was thinking of my replaytv... and I beleiev my Ultimate tv did the same...
Stuart Sweet
04-14-08, 07:12 AM
The bottom line for me is, I've had TiVo mess up, and I've had HR2x mess up, but pretty rarely for both. So in answer to the original post... I would say no. They all work about the same.
JerseyBoy
04-14-08, 09:14 AM
I have never had a problem with the first run only on either my HR20 or HR21. But with my HR10 (TiVo) I had several shows that I had to set to record both first run and repeats otherwise I would get nothing. It has been a while since I used the HR10 so I don't remember for sure which shows those were but I think they were mostly on the SciFi channel. TiVo is hardly the gold standard. I have used ReplayTV, Various SW DVRs on a PC, the HR10 (TiVo) and the new Directv DVRs. TiVo was the worst of the lot. However I never used a standalone TiVo maybe they are better than the HR10 version. But Replaytv was the best. the HR2x are getting close to being as good as Replaytv. The only feature missing to get them there is MRV.
If you say it's the networks fault for bad guide data, why did it work with the tivo?I suspect TiVo doesn't rely on the network accurately reporting first run/repeat status in the GUIDE data. I believe TiVo is using the "Original Air Date" field to determine that status on it's own.
My request for DirecTV to do the same may be found here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=122878). :) /steve
ulbonado
04-14-08, 10:06 AM
The only times I've seen repeats recorded as first run with my HR21-700 are The Daily Show and The Colbert Report, and my old standalone Series 1 Tivo does exactly the same thing with them. Every Monday, and every time there's a week with no new episodes, both DVRs record all the repeats when they shouldn't. Not sure what's up with them, but Tivo has no edge on that particular point for me.
The only times I've seen repeats recorded as first run with my HR21-700 are The Daily Show and The Colbert Report, and my old standalone Series 1 Tivo does exactly the same thing with them. Every Monday, and every time there's a week with no new episodes, both DVRs record all the repeats when they shouldn't. Not sure what's up with them, but Tivo has no edge on that particular point for me.Assuming TiVo is using ORIGINAL AIR DATE, those two shows are still problematic, since they air several times a day, and only the date is listed in OAD, and not the showing time. In fact, The Daily Show often doesn't even list OAD! Those shows, along with several kid's shows, are the reason for this Wish List request:
SERIES LINK setup options: RECORD: [First Run/Repeat/Both/All with Duplicates]; RECORD THIS TIME SLOT ONLY?: [Y/N]; RECORD THIS WEEK-DAY ONLY?: [Y/N]; KEEP AT MOST: [1/2/3/4/5/10/ALL]; WHEN LIMIT REACHED: [Delete Oldest/Stop Recording]; AUTODELETE WHEN DISK FULL?: [Y/N]
For those that haven't already voted on it, you can do so here (http://www.sizethis.com/index.php?module=survey&survey=28). /steve
tonyd79
04-14-08, 10:38 AM
I don't know. If you use any or all of the restrictions on time/day in the Wish List request, you might as well do a manual recording. The title still shows up.
I don't know. If you use any or all of the restrictions on time/day in the Wish List request, you might as well do a manual recording. The title still shows up.I happen to be a fan of "recurring manuals" as well, but I wish DirecTV would allow us to set other options for them, like "Keep at Most" and "Keep Until".
Also annoying, "manual" TITLES don't sort properly in the PLAYLIST. They're always in the "M's". :) /steve
kaszeta
04-14-08, 11:15 AM
when I got the HR21 I was hoping it was more intelligent but it too records every episode even when I select "first-run" only...Ive tried so far with 4 different shows on various channels and I get repeats all throughout the week.
If you say it's the networks fault for bad guide data, why did it work with the tivo?
I see this with my HR20 vs my older DSR704 DirecTivo. The HR20 is much, much more likely to record all episodes of a series, especially if it's a new season pass. I've gotten used to going through and weeding out the list after creating a new pass.
I watch the cheesy reality shows on VH1 & MTV so I guess it's those channels not properly reporting first-run in the guide data.
Havent tried a season pass for a network show yet but I assume since networks generally dont reply the show during the week the season pass would work much better for those channels.
Something I noticed last night, Celebrity Fit Club on VH1 doesnt display episode info so it's impossible to tell which episode you are recording....however on time warner the episode info was properly displayed, whos fault is that?
[...] whos fault is that?As far as I can tell, except for the # of actors, DirecTV now seems to pass along all the information supplied them by Tribune Media Service, the GUIDE DATA supplier. If TMS is not sending it over, it's either their fault or the network supplying TMS with the original info. /steve
The Merg
04-14-08, 06:13 PM
To the OP, what programs and networks are you having issues on? Also note that on the HR2x receivers, when you first setup a series link it will always record the episode you setup the series link on, even if it doesn't qualify (say it's not a first run). This is because when you hit record the first time it's setting up that episode. The second time it sets up the series link but of course the single episodes is still set to record. After that it should function just fine outside of those programs/networks that don't provide complete guide data.
That is not completely accurate. Even if you select the episode from the Guide and then choose Record Series, it will still record the selected episode even if it does not meet your recording criteria (i.e. it is a repeat and you selected to record first run). In this case you are not selecting to record that episode, but it is still going to record it.
- Merg
The Merg
04-14-08, 06:15 PM
As far as I can tell, except for the # of actors, DirecTV now seems to pass along all the information supplied them by Tribune Media Service, the GUIDE DATA supplier. If TMS is not sending it over, it's either their fault or the network supplying TMS with the original info. /steve
They're not doing that with the R15 series though. You'd think us SD users were the bane of DirecTV's existance. :lol:
- Merg
It all depends on the guide data. If the program you are recording doesn't have guide data that flags it as a repeat then it will record. You can thank the channel that broadcasts the show for that, not the HR21 or DirecTV.
No I blame Directv. It's their responsibility to make sure their subcontractor gets the correct information.
When a part goes bad on your car thats made by a sub contractor do you take to the dealer or the subcontractor? When you buy a dell PC and the harddrive goes bad do you expect Dell or Seagate/Maxtor/IBM to replace the drive?
No I blame Directv. It's their responsibility to make sure their subcontractor gets the correct information.Yes and No. If Tribune Media Service is not passing along all the show data provided by the network, I agree with you 100%. But in the case of REPEAT data, there's no incentive for the network to accurately supply this information, because why should they risk giving a viewer an excuse not to watch one of their shows?
That's why I believe that DirecTV should take it upon themselves to "calculate" whether or not a show is First Run or Repeat, by using the "Original Air Date". If you agree, please join my rant on this subject here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=122878). :) /steve
Not to imply that you're not experiencing an issue, but neither of my HR21's (nor my HR20) have missed a recording since I've owned them.
How do you know ? This is question for all those faithful HR2x folks.....
New Amsterdam (Classified) did not record on HR20, History showing: "Cancelled" while HR10 recorded it. No one in the house but me touched HR20 recording and I was 300 miles away from the HR20 (No Remote recording either).
Yes and No. If Tribune Media Service is not passing along all the show data provided by the network, I agree with you 100%. But in the case of REPEAT data, there's no incentive for the network to accurately supply this information, because why should they risk giving a viewer an excuse not to watch one of their shows?
That's why I believe that DirecTV should take it upon themselves to "calculate" whether or not a show is First Run or Repeat, by using the "Original Air Date". If you agree, please join my rant on this subject here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=122878). :) /steve
They simply receive signals from broadcasters and relay it to their customers. Content is not in their domain, they cannot control or alter it.
Yes and No. If Tribune Media Service is not passing along all the show data provided by the network, I agree with you 100%. But in the case of REPEAT data, there's no incentive for the network to accurately supply this information, because why should they risk giving a viewer an excuse not to watch one of their shows?
That's why I believe that DirecTV should take it upon themselves to "calculate" whether or not a show is First Run or Repeat, by using the "Original Air Date". If you agree, please join my rant on this subject here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=122878). :) /steve
For those interested, I created a POLL (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=126039) this morning on a new Wish List request to better utilize the "Original Air Date" field. /steve
islesfan
04-15-08, 11:40 AM
I have so many duplicates of Lacrosse Weekly from Comcast West, I just start the episode, and delete the duplicates. A pain, but better than missing episodes...
I have so many duplicates of Lacrosse Weekly from Comcast West, I just start the episode, and delete the duplicates. A pain, but better than missing episodes...644 ALT in my GUIDE here in NY seems to show Lacrosse Weekly episodes regularly at 5AM and 6PM. Maybe you can just set-up a "recurring MANUAL" on that channel instead, assuming it's a channel you get? Just a thought. /steve
bonscott87
04-15-08, 12:34 PM
How do you know ? This is question for all those faithful HR2x folks.....
I know because I've never missed a show that wasn't due to bad guide data. HR20 going on 2 years now and an HR21 for about a year. Never missed a show. Having said that I also don't record kids shows or stuff on MTV that people have issues with.
But I also understand what shows have bad guide data and which don't from owning various Tivo's for 8 years and thus I get around those. Get to know your programs is all I can say.
Also get to know your networks and your channels. For example, my local NBC station. When they show hockey on Saturday or Sunday's and I schedule it to record there is about a 75% chance that it will get canceled so I always check on it the day before. And why does it get canceled? Because my local station changes the guide data on the game enough to make the DVR think it's a totally different show (such as change the end time or change the episode title/info). They've been that way for a long time. Talked to the station engineer about it and basically they put in "stub" data for the game 14 days out and almost always they update it a couple days before once they have the final information from the network.
So anyway, I know to double check that recording because of that issue.
I know because I've never missed a show that wasn't due to bad guide data. HR20 going on 2 years now and an HR21 for about a year. Never missed a show. Having said that I also don't record kids shows or stuff on MTV that people have issues with.
But I also understand what shows have bad guide data and which don't from owning various Tivo's for 8 years and thus I get around those. Get to know your programs is all I can say.
Also get to know your networks and your channels. For example, my local NBC station. When they show hockey on Saturday or Sunday's and I schedule it to record there is about a 75% chance that it will get canceled so I always check on it the day before. And why does it get canceled? Because my local station changes the guide data on the game enough to make the DVR think it's a totally different show (such as change the end time or change the episode title/info). They've been that way for a long time. Talked to the station engineer about it and basically they put in "stub" data for the game 14 days out and almost always they update it a couple days before once they have the final information from the network.
So anyway, I know to double check that recording because of that issue.
Thanks for responding but what you do there is defeating the purpose of having a DVR. DVR/Tivo is to set it and forget it. Why have a DVR so that we all have to babysit it and check on it every single day.
What I meant with my show being cancelled were that both HR20 and HR10 were set to record (New Episodes only) on same channel 88. Hr20 says cancelled but HR10 recorded it.
For the past many months, all of you said and blame on Guide Data. For the average users, what would it take for D* to get all their equipment(s) to be on the same guide provider ?
bonscott87
04-15-08, 01:01 PM
Thanks for responding but what you do there is defeating the purpose of having a DVR. DVR/Tivo is to set it and forget it. Why have a DVR so that we all have to babysit it and check on it every single day.
What I meant with my show being cancelled were that both HR20 and HR10 were set to record (New Episodes only) on same channel 88. Hr20 says cancelled but HR10 recorded it.
For the past many months, all of you said and blame on Guide Data. For the average users, what would it take for D* to get all their equipment(s) to be on the same guide provider ?
I understand what you're saying but the blame (in my case) is totally on my local station. THEY are the ones providing the guide data to Tribune Media Service which in turn is bought by Tivo, DirecTV, Dish and cable companies which then in turn put that info on our set top boxes. DirecTV can't do a dang thing about it. The only difference with Tivo is they "massage" the guide data first and enhance it. This has also caused problems in that they can't get last minute changes out in time. Tivo employees have posted on the Tivo forum in those times or even sent an urgent message to all Tivo DVRs to alert users that the change may not get to them in time and they should manually pad.
My local station engineer knows it causes problems with DVRs of all types but there isn't anything he can do about it and frankly they don't want people to DVR things anyway because they don't get counted in their ratings so they have very little incentive to fix the whole process. I don't watch live, I don't count.
As for your particular issue who knows. There is a known issue with the HR2x, mainly with kids shows and rare, where they get canceled and usually it is due to guide data changes and the DVR isn't handling them very well. Check out Ken's thread about Blues Clues. This could be what happened to you. Definitely post in the issues thread about it.
For the past many months, all of you said and blame on Guide Data. For the average users, what would it take for D* to get all their equipment(s) to be on the same guide provider ?They actually do use the same GUIDE DATA provider (TMS) for all their DVR's. As Scott said, TiVo is "massaging" the data. E.g., unlike DirecTV with the HR2x, TiVo is probably "calculating" First Run/Repeat status for those shows where that status is missing, by using "Original Air Date" when it is available in the GUIDE INFO. /steve
Mike Bertelson
04-15-08, 01:43 PM
It all depends on the guide data. If the program you are recording doesn't have guide data that flags it as a repeat then it will record. You can thank the channel that broadcasts the show for that, not the HR21 or DirecTV.
When I have an SL for a show that also airs the same episode 3hrs later, it only records the first one.
Even if the second is not flagged as a repeat.
I've never seen it record many copies of the same episode.
AAMOF, if there is a conflict it will record the later episode.
It seems as if there is something additional in the mix causing the OPs issue.
Mike
When I have an SL for a show that also airs the same episode 3hrs later, it only records the first one.
Even if the second is not flagged as a repeat.
I've never seen it record many copies of the same episode.
AAMOF, if there is a conflict it will record the later episode.
It seems as if there is something additional in the mix causing the OPs issue.
MikeSounds like your success is due to the proper application of the "28-day rule" on the shows you record.
I think what the OP is seeing may be a bug in the "first run" flag logic, since he seems to be specifically asking for episode type "First Run", and most shows are not properly flagged as such, as I learned from the little study (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=126039) I conducted this morning. /steve
Mike Bertelson
04-15-08, 02:06 PM
Sounds like your success is due to the proper application of the "28-day rule" on the shows you record.
I think what the OP is seeing may be a bug in the "first run" flag logic, since he seems to be specifically asking for episode type "First Run", and most shows are not properly flagged as such, as I learned from the little study (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=126039) I conducted this morning. /steve
Very interesting study.
I agree that the Original Air Date would probably fix the OPs (and others) problems.
Mike
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