110/119 Sat Issues & RG59 vs RG6

[PurdueGradMem]

For the past three months I have not been able to receive the HD channels that are on SATs 110/119. I am able to receive the SD channels off of 101 and the HD channels off of 103. My main receiver is a HR20 and I am utilizing both tuners.
After executing the basic troubleshooting items that DirecTV requests they dispatched a local installer to come check my system/setup. I did not have a good experience with the local installer, and have informed DirecTV of this.

The installer focused on the fact that the cables hooked up to the DVR were RG59 and not RG6. While I understand that RG6 is the expected cable for HD programming, I was able to receive the 110/119 Sats over the same cables for 1.5 years. Additionally, I am able to get the approx 75 HD channels on the 103 sat through the same cables.

My cables are not in an easy area to run two new RG6 cables, so I thanked them for their help and they left with the issue unresolved. Again, I was not at home because they came early. Luckily my wife was home because her office was without power.

On my way home from work I stopped and bought a RG6 cable. I ran this cable from my attic to the DVR. I had this RG6 cable as the only cable hooked up to the DVR on Tuner 1. This produced the same signal strengths for 110/119 as the RG59 cable. I thin ran the RG6 as Tuner 1 and the RG59 as Tuner 2. The signal strengths for both of the tuners were virtually identical.

The end result to me seemed to rule out the RG59 cable as the root cause of my issue. It looks to me that either my SAT is out of alignment or I have a problem with my DVR.

Any help would be appreciated.


PurdueGradMem

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Major city near you: Memphis
Receiver Manufacturer: DIRECTV
Receiver Model: HR20
Date/Time/Duration of problem: 01/01/08
Channel(s) where problem is occurring: 70-78

[crashHD]

what are your signal strengths on the 110/119 transponders? Do you have any other receivers? What signal strengths do they show on 110/119.

[PurdueGradMem]

Unfortunately, this is the only HD sat I have. I do have a friend who has an extra. I am going to borrow it to rule out the receiver.

Satellite transponders (32 total at 101-deg)
1-8 95 96 95 98 94 95 95 98
9-16 96 97 96 0 96 00 05 99
17-24 96 86 96 72 97 99 96 99
25-32 96 0 96 61 98 99 96 100

Satellite transponders (3 total at 110-deg)
1-8 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA 0
9-16 NA 0 NA 0 NA NA NA NA

Satellite transponders (11 total at 119-deg)
17-24 NA NA NA NA NA 0 38 0
25-32 33 0 96 0 0 0 0 0

Satellite transponders (6 total at 99(s))
1-8 0 93 0 0 0 95 NA NA
[Note: these can be very slow to appear]

Satellite transponders (16 total at 103(s))
1-8 0 0 0 0 0 0 NA NA
9-16 NA NA NA NA NA NA 68 0
17-24 91 96 0 0 0 0 86 80
[Note, these can be very slow to appear]

Satellite transponders (16 total at 103(c))
1-8 92 02 88 88 88 89 86 87
9-16 91 92 87 89 92 94 NA NA
17-24 91 NA NA NA NA 95 NA NA

[TigersFanJJ]

What dish do you have, AT9 or slimline?

[PurdueGradMem]

What dish do you have, AT9 or slimline?


I was one of the first HR20 (MPEG 4) installs, so I have an AT9.

[TigersFanJJ]

I'm betting either a bad lnb or los issue.

EDIT: I had a feeling you had the AT9. It sounds like something is messed up with either the sidecar or where it connects. Possibly moisture caused problems. I willing to bet a new slimline would fix the problem.

[PurdueGradMem]

I tend to agree with you, however the local install company said that the signal level was fine out of the SAT. However, I really don't trust them as because of the other information pointed out in my first post.

[crashHD]

It does not have to be an HD receiver to get signal from the 110/119 sats, so that information is still diagnostically useful.

Looks like a bad lnb issue.

LOS is probably not a problem though. You are showing signal from 3 odd transponders from 119. LOS is usually all or nothing for an entire orbital slot.

[PurdueGradMem]

It does not have to be an HD receiver to get signal from the 110/119 sats, so that information is still diagnostically useful.


I just used my Samsung SD receiver to test 110/119 and I get the same signal results. This further points to something wrong on the SAT.

I think I'll call the installer back and have them look at it with the RG6 cable installed. This will get ride of any excuse on why it isn't working.

[TigersFanJJ]

I think I'll call the installer back and have them look at it with the RG6 cable installed. This will get ride of any excuse on why it isn't working.

Tell him to make sure he brings a new dish with him. ;)

[litzdog911]

Have you tried removing and re-inserting the two jumper cables between the sidecar and main LNBs? It might just be a connection problem. Note that your 110-deg readings are also zero.

[PurdueGradMem]

Note that your 110-deg readings are also zero.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts. Can you explain what you mean by your quote above?


The SAT is high enough on my house, that I do not have easy access to it. However, I expect the installer to check that out when they were here, and come again.

[K4SMX]

It is a fairly common problem with the AT-9's that the cables/connectors between the 110 and/or the 119 go bad. Too bad you can't get to the dish yourself. It's a little odd that they would both go out at the same time. This may point to a multi-switch problem in the main 99/101/103 LNB. It would be best to just replace it with a new Slimline as TigersFanJJ suggested, since the dish is difficult to access, and you don't want to have to deal with this problem again.

[inkahauts]

Ok, so something seems off here. Do you also have a multiswitch located in your attic? It seems like you do. If thats the case.. it could be a wire going from the dish to that multiswitch. Frankly, you have a couple signals on your 101 sat that show 0 as well that shouldn't. Transponders 14 and 15 are not spots from what I've seen. The other low signals at 101 are. Also, your missing a transponder on 103c (you should have solid signals on all 103c transponders). I have seen this happen with a bad cable, like one chewed on slightly by a little critter. It could be that, it could be a multiswitch in the attic, or it could be the multiswitch in the dish, from what I see in your readings. With that said, I'd run that new RG6 cable you have directly from the dish to the sat tuner and see what signals that gives me.

[PurdueGradMem]

I don't have a mutliswitch other than the one on the dish itself. There are 4 independent lines running from the dish into the attic.

From the lines into the attic, I have two of them via RG59 ran to the DVR. However, even when I run from the attic to the DVR with RG6 it does not make a difference in signal strength.

Thanks again for all the responses.

[litzdog911]

Have you tried removing and re-inserting the two jumper cables between the sidecar and main LNBs? It might just be a connection problem. Note that your 110-deg readings are also zero.

I still think your problem is most likely at the dish. There are two short coax cables that connect the two LNB assemblies together. I'm guessing that one or both of those cables is loose, or the connectors have gotten corroded. If you can reach your dish, you might be able to simply remove those cables, check that they're clean, and reconnect them.

[K4SMX]

.....Frankly, you have a couple signals on your 101 sat that show 0 as well that shouldn't.....
This is not as easy as it used to be. With some of the recent HR2x software versions, erroneous "0's" can appear that must be confirmed with the Signal Meters. The software appears to be sweeping the tp's faster than they sometimes are able to register.

PurdueGradMem can confirm the validity of those 101 "0's" using the Signal Meters and update his report for 101 tp's #12, 14, 15, & 27 to see if we can perhaps eliminate the issue you raise on the 101's and the multi-switch. If not, it would be further evidence that that might be the problem, not the usual AT-9 cables/connectors. It is odd that he lost both the 110's and 119's simultaneously it would appear.

[PurdueGradMem]

I thought I would provide an update.

I finally got frustrated and replaced the RG59 with new RG6U cable. I still did not get channels 70 to 79 (110 and 119). However, then I remembered that the BBC's are only necessary to get 103. When I removed the BBC's from the equation, I now receive channels 70 to 79 perfectly. Of course, without the BBC's I can't get any of the MPEG4 channels.

Should I call DirecTV and request new BBC's? Does it make any sense that I would have problems gettting the MPEG2 channels through the BBCs?

Thoughts?

[K4SMX]

Is that an HR20-100? If so check to see if this problem effects only tuner 2 or both tuners. There is a known problem with some of the HR20-100 receivers using the current NR software effecting only tuner 2. The problem only effects CH's 70, 71, and 73-78. Not 72 or 79, which come from the 119.

In answer to your question, yes, a bad BBC can effect satellite signals on satellites other than 103(c). But it would be unusual to have two bad BBC's with that particular problem....

[PurdueGradMem]

I have an HR20-700, and it affects both Tuners.

[veryoldschool]

I have an HR20-700, and it affects both Tuners.
Get new BBCs.

[K4SMX]

And order them by phone, not from the website. Two days, FedEx. No $.

[PurdueGradMem]

And order them by phone, not from the website. Two days, FedEx. No $.

Via normal DirecTV support?

[ironwood]

Wow thats a weird situation. How a bad BBC can affect 110 and not affect 103?

I had few service calls with exact same sympthoms and signal issues on 110 (all zeros) and 119 (zeros on odds or evens). Replacing AT9 with Slimline fixed the problem.

[ironwood]

I just used my Samsung SD receiver to test 110/119 and I get the same signal results. This further points to something wrong on the SAT.

Here is your answer.

[K4SMX]

.....When I removed the BBC's from the equation, I now receive channels 70 to 79 perfectly. Of course, without the BBC's I can't get any of the MPEG4 channels......
It looks like the 18V + 22Khz tone is not making it through the BBC's, except when the receiver is tuned to 103(c), because you have no 110 or 119 even tp's with the BBC's in place, but 103(c) evens are fine The odds seem OK. Note that you have three 119 odds. There are no 110 odds.

This is a very strange issue. There's some problem with the whole receiver/BBC/LNB mix. The BBC's are the easiest and first things to replace.

I think you're going to have to get that new pair of BBC's before you can do any further testing. Let us know what happens in a couple of days.

[ironwood]

It looks like the 18V + 22Khz tone is not making it through the BBC's, except when the receiver is tuned to 103(c), because you have no 110 or 119 even tp's with the BBC's in place, but 103(c) evens are fine The odds seem OK. Note that you have three 119 odds. There are no 110 odds.

This is a very strange issue. There's some problem with the whole receiver/BBC/LNB mix. The BBC's are the easiest and first things to replace.

I think you're going to have to get that new pair of BBC's before you can do any further testing. Let us know what happens in a couple of days.

He couldnt get 110/119 on standard receiver either. No BBCs there.

[K4SMX]

He couldnt get 110/119 on standard receiver either. No BBCs there.
Yeah, I saw that, but then why is he getting 110 and 119 on the HR with no BBC's? The next step after the simple BBC substitution would definitely be to change out that AT-9 for a Slimline. AT-9's and oddball 110/119 problems are joined at the hip....

[ironwood]

Yeah, I saw that, but then why is he getting 110 and 119 on the HR with no BBC's? The next step after the simple BBC substitution would definitely be to change out that AT-9 for a Slimline. AT-9's and oddball 110/119 problems are joined at the hip....

That might have been an intermittent thing. As well as not getting 110/119 on standard receiver. If 110/119 lnb has bad/corroded connectors then problem comes and goes. In a long run of course lnb and in this case the whole dish has to be replaced.

[ironwood]

Yeah, I saw that, but then why is he getting 110 and 119 on the HR with no BBC's? The next step after the simple BBC substitution would definitely be to change out that AT-9 for a Slimline. AT-9's and oddball 110/119 problems are joined at the hip....

I have to apologize for questioning your judgement. While there still possible problem with sidecar dish, the odd situation with 110 satellite apparently exists. I was quite surprised recently when I run accross similar case. Tuner 2 on sat 110 on HR20-100 had low signal. I removed BBC and :) signal went up to normal.

Tuner 2 apparently is a problem on many HR20s. But its so weird that removing BBC restores good signal on 110. Real mystery. I hope we hear from PerdueMan and see what happened.

[PurdueGradMem]

After replacing my internal cables to RG6 and getting new B-Band Converters the problem still remained. A technition came out and could not get my 2 year installed AT-9 to get both 101 and 110/119 signal at the same time. He then replaced it with a new slimline and I have stronger singnals on every sat then I ever had.

It was the dish after all.