RV satellite setup

[natgild]

I have an RV with a roof mounted single LNB satellite dish. When I turn the receiver on and try to find a satellite, I hit menu and it automatically skips to step 6 of 9 in the setup sequence. i.e. I can not set/change the dish type. When I try to find the satellite, I go to the signal meter page(satellite 101) and intermittently get a good signal(in the 90's), then it abruptly cuts off. When I go to the transponder page it will get signal from some transponders, and not from others. I suspect this is because the signal is going on and off. I am assuming I am on the correct satellite or I would not get any signal. I am thinking that this might be because the receiver might be set for a 3 LNB dish, but I can't change it. I have a standalone single LNB dish that I use if I get parked under a tree. I get the same behavior with that so I don't think it is the wiring, dish or LNB. I have tried to reset the receiver.

I talked to a Directv tech support person who said that I could not get to steps 1 to 5 until I had locked on the signal!! That did not make any sense to me.

Am I missing something here? Any suggestions?

[litzdog911]

Welcome to DBSTalk!

What brand/model Receiver are you using?

[natgild]

I tried to remember to include as much info as I could and forgot the most important. It's a Directv R15. :confused:

[litzdog911]

Do you have a simple standalone DirecTV Receiver that you can use instead of the DVR? That would at least help you determine if it's an R15 problem or something else.

[natgild]

Actually, I have an older Directv R10. I'm going to try that. Thanks for the
suggestion.

[ThomasM]

I have an RV with a roof mounted single LNB satellite dish. When I turn the receiver on and try to find a satellite, I hit menu and it automatically skips to step 6 of 9 in the setup sequence. i.e. I can not set/change the dish type. When I try to find the satellite, I go to the signal meter page(satellite 101) and intermittently get a good signal(in the 90's), then it abruptly cuts off. When I go to the transponder page it will get signal from some transponders, and not from others. I suspect this is because the signal is going on and off. I am assuming I am on the correct satellite or I would not get any signal. I am thinking that this might be because the receiver might be set for a 3 LNB dish, but I can't change it. I have a standalone single LNB dish that I use if I get parked under a tree. I get the same behavior with that so I don't think it is the wiring, dish or LNB. I have tried to reset the receiver.

I talked to a Directv tech support person who said that I could not get to steps 1 to 5 until I had locked on the signal!! That did not make any sense to me.

Am I missing something here? Any suggestions?

It is possible to aim your dish at 119 or 110 instead of 101 and the receiver will show signal strenth indications, even if it's only set for a single LNB. The signal meters will show signal strenth but just not on all the transponders that the 101 uses because 119 and 110 have lots fewer transponders.

This could be your problem.

[natgild]

It is possible to aim your dish at 119 or 110 instead of 101 and the receiver will show signal strenth indications, even if it's only set for a single LNB. The signal meters will show signal strenth but just not on all the transponders that the 101 uses because 119 and 110 have lots fewer transponders.

This could be your problem.

Thanks. I'm beginning to think this may be what happened. I had thought that when you had signal strength meters set to 101, you would only get an indication from that satellite. Therefore, I stopped searching in other areas when I got the signal indication.

I was able to find the satellite with my old tuner and swap cables and my new turner picked just fine. When I did that, it did appear that the tuner was set for a 3 LNB dish. Does it make a difference if I try to find the satellite with it set on the wrong dish? Or is the reason it needs the dish type only to give you the correct azimuth, elevation, and rotation?

I'm still a little puzzled as to why I can't get to the first 5 steps of the setup until after I have a signal. Maybe that is not important?

[litzdog911]

Thanks. I'm beginning to think this may be what happened. I had thought that when you had signal strength meters set to 101, you would only get an indication from that satellite. Therefore, I stopped searching in other areas when I got the signal indication.

I was able to find the satellite with my old tuner and swap cables and my new turner picked just fine. When I did that, it did appear that the tuner was set for a 3 LNB dish. Does it make a difference if I try to find the satellite with it set on the wrong dish? Or is the reason it needs the dish type only to give you the correct azimuth, elevation, and rotation?

I'm still a little puzzled as to why I can't get to the first 5 steps of the setup until after I have a signal. Maybe that is not important?

For initial setup it should not matter if the Receiver is to "single LNB" or "3-LNB" dish type. You just won't have any signal readings on the 110 and 119-deg satellites if you're using a round single LNB dish. And your Receiver will put some channels in the Guide that you can't receive.

And, yes, that setting also gives you the appropriate aiming directions based on your zip code and the dish type.

[ThomasM]

I was able to find the satellite with my old tuner and swap cables and my new turner picked just fine. When I did that, it did appear that the tuner was set for a 3 LNB dish. Does it make a difference if I try to find the satellite with it set on the wrong dish? Or is the reason it needs the dish type only to give you the correct azimuth, elevation, and rotation?

I'm still a little puzzled as to why I can't get to the first 5 steps of the setup until after I have a signal. Maybe that is not important?

When you set the receiver to 3 LNB, you tell it to send various DC voltages, positive or negative polarity of those DC voltages, and tone signals (4 kHz and 22 kHz) to the dish assuming that the dish has the intelligence to decode the signals and select the correct satellite/transponder. But single LNB's only respond to the EVEN or ODD transponder signal from the receiver. So if you tell the receiver to look for the 101 satellite BUT AIM YOUR SINGLE LNB DISH AT 119 or 110, it will give you signal strenth readings! The receiver is only looking for a DirecTV-compatible data stream. You would think each satellite would send out an identifier and the receiver would require a match, but nope.

[natgild]

When you set the receiver to 3 LNB, you tell it to send various DC voltages, positive or negative polarity of those DC voltages, and tone signals (4 kHz and 22 kHz) to the dish assuming that the dish has the intelligence to decode the signals and select the correct satellite/transponder. But single LNB's only respond to the EVEN or ODD transponder signal from the receiver. So if you tell the receiver to look for the 101 satellite BUT AIM YOUR SINGLE LNB DISH AT 119 or 110, it will give you signal strenth readings! The receiver is only looking for a DirecTV-compatible data stream. You would think each satellite would send out an identifier and the receiver would require a match, but nope.

Again, thanks. :D OK, I guess if I'm more careful I can find a satellite with the receiver set for a 3 LNB but using a single LNB dish. How about setting the tuner for a single LNB and trying to find the satellite with a 3 LNB dish??

The reason this is an issue is I carry a spare 3 LNB dish in case I am under a tree, but the dish on top of the motor home is a single LNB.

[natgild]

I think I may have found an answer to getting back to steps 1 thru 5 and being able to set the dish type. It was right in this forums in the R15 FAQ http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=58959. It says in part:

"Disconnect any cables from your dish (this will not work correctly if the unit is
receiving a signal, so this is not optional). Do a "reset'. During startup, when it gets to the screen that says "acquiring satellite information", press the Exit button. "

Then I pressed the Menu button and got to the "normal" satellite setup where I can set dish type.:)

[carl6]

Again, thanks. :D OK, I guess if I'm more careful I can find a satellite with the receiver set for a 3 LNB but using a single LNB dish. How about setting the tuner for a single LNB and trying to find the satellite with a 3 LNB dish??

The reason this is an issue is I carry a spare 3 LNB dish in case I am under a tree, but the dish on top of the motor home is a single LNB.

It really won't matter as far as getting your initial aim and alignment. After you have good alignment, if all you are using are stations from 101 I see no need to change your receiver to a 3-satellite setting.

ThomaM's explanation is not completely accurate from a technical perspective, but the general concept is correct. The receiver sends a DC voltage (always positive), either 13V or 18V. This causes the LNB assembly to utilize either right hand circular polarizaiton (13V) or left hand circular polarization (18V) (which happens to be what selects between odd (13V) and even (18V) transponders). The receiver may also send or not send a 22KHz tone. The absence of the tone results in the dish sending signals from the 101 (and 99 if you have a 5-LNB dish) satellite. The presence of the tone results in the dish sending signals from 110/119 (and 103 if you have a 5-LNB dish). Other signalling methods are used in addition to these if you either have a flexport dish (72.5 or 95), or if you use BBC's.

Carl

[natgild]

It really won't matter as far as getting your initial aim and alignment. After you have good alignment, if all you are using are stations from 101 I see no need to change your receiver to a 3-satellite setting.

ThomaM's explanation is not completely accurate from a technical perspective, but the general concept is correct. The receiver sends a DC voltage (always positive), either 13V or 18V. This causes the LNB assembly to utilize either right hand circular polarizaiton (13V) or left hand circular polarization (18V) (which happens to be what selects between odd (13V) and even (18V) transponders). The receiver may also send or not send a 22KHz tone. The absence of the tone results in the dish sending signals from the 101 (and 99 if you have a 5-LNB dish) satellite. The presence of the tone results in the dish sending signals from 110/119 (and 103 if you have a 5-LNB dish). Other signalling methods are used in addition to these if you either have a flexport dish (72.5 or 95), or if you use BBC's.

Carl

Great info. On a 3 LNB dish, I assume that the 110 should go to the center LNB. Does this keep you from finding the 101 on the center LNB? Or is this just something that goes on when you are changing channels/transponders?

Nat

[carl6]

What can happen with a 3-LNB dish is that it is supposed to be aimed at the 110 orbital slot, and it sees 101 and 119 from the sides. Depending on what signal screen you are using (or what channel you are tuned to) will determine whether the receiver is or is not sending the 22KHz tone. If you are using the signal strength screen for 101, then the tone is not transmitted, and the 101 LNB is the active one.

However, at this point neither the dish nor the receiver "knows" what satellite you are aimed at. So you could be aimed in the wrong direction where the 101 LNB is actually seeing the 110 or 119 transponders. If that happens, then you will see either 3 or 11 transponder readings (for 110 or 119) with a whole bunch of zeros on the other transponders (because the receiver thinks you are looking at 101, it is showing all 32 transponders).

The reverse is also true. If you set the signal screen for 110 (and are then using the center LNB on the dish) and aim it at 101, you will see the three transponders show a reading, even though they are not from the correct satellite.

When you will figure out that you were aimed wrong is when you exit the signal screen and try to watch something - you won't get the signal/channel.

Does that answer your question?

Carl

[ThomasM]

ThomaM's explanation is not completely accurate from a technical perspective, but the general concept is correct. The receiver sends a DC voltage (always positive), either 13V or 18V. This causes the LNB assembly to utilize either right hand circular polarizaiton (13V) or left hand circular polarization (18V) (which happens to be what selects between odd (13V) and even (18V) transponders). The receiver may also send or not send a 22KHz tone. The absence of the tone results in the dish sending signals from the 101 (and 99 if you have a 5-LNB dish) satellite. The presence of the tone results in the dish sending signals from 110/119 (and 103 if you have a 5-LNB dish). Other signalling methods are used in addition to these if you either have a flexport dish (72.5 or 95), or if you use BBC's.

Carl

Really? Then using just ONE coax, how can the receiver choose 101 H or V, 119 H or V, or 110? That's FIVE different choices. 13Volts/18volts and tone/no tone will only give you FOUR choices.

PS: I don't have a "flexport" dish, a 72.5, or a 95. They weren't invented when this signalling scheme was invented years and years ago when "DirecTV Plus" was created. My HUGHES legacy receiver bought in 2000 supports this signalling scheme using the 3 satellites.

[Tom Robertson]

Really? Then using just ONE coax, how can the receiver choose 101 H or V, 119 H or V, or 110? That's FIVE different choices. 13Volts/18volts and tone/no tone will only give you FOUR choices.

PS: I don't have a "flexport" dish, a 72.5, or a 95. They weren't invented when this signalling scheme was invented years and years ago when "DirecTV Plus" was created. My HUGHES legacy receiver bought in 2000 supports this signalling scheme using the 3 satellites.
There is a very sneaky trick in the 110° LNB. When the tuner signals ~18V/22KHz, it is asking for both 110° and 119° even transponders. The 3 transponders at 110° are downconverted differently than the "standard" amount so as to not conflict with the transponders from 119°.

Which is why there is a special C-Sat. LNB kit for taking 2LNB to 3LNB configurations.

Cheers,
Tom

[ThomasM]

There is a very sneaky trick in the 110° LNB. When the tuner signals ~18V/22KHz, it is asking for both 110° and 119° even transponders. The 3 transponders at 110° are downconverted differently than the "standard" amount so as to not conflict with the transponders from 119°.

Which is why there is a special C-Sat. LNB kit for taking 2LNB to 3LNB configurations.

Cheers,
Tom

So THAT explains how a 4 x 8 or 5 x 8 multiswitch can constantly offer all 3 satellite feeds (101, 110, 119) to it's outputs using just FOUR coax feeds from a 3 LNB dish!! The coax connected to the 18v/22kHz-labeled input is carrying BOTH 119 even AND the 110 transponders!! You learn something new every day on DBSTALK.COM!!! :)