DVR RETRO

[hanover]

Do you think DVR technology will ever have the capability to record shows you missed? In other words, the guide would go backwards instead of always forward.
I think that would be the ultimate DVR.

[Michael D'Angelo]

No because the show would have to be buffered to be able to record. So you would need a active tuner on every channel so you can record whatever channel and a very large hard drive.

[tcusta00]

No.

The closest we have today is DirecTV on Demand.

[Jeremy W]

Until time travel is invented, the shows would have to be stored on a central server to be accessed On Demand™. Like tcusta00 said.

[Brandon428]

I was thinking about this a couple of days ago. It is possible if Directv would have huge servers that would back up at least 5 hours in the past so if you missed it you can access it via broadband internet or perhaps a satellite with a huge server on it,but it would have to be some serious servers and you would need a very fast connection to maintain quality and real time viewing not waiting for it to download if you did it via internet. It would be like cheating time. That indeed would create the ultimate DVR experience. We should create a prototype and patent it. I think we'll see something like this in the future.What am I saying...we don't even have DLB yet.

[Steve Mehs]

I have Star Over with cable, it allows you to start from the beginning of the show or movie, but it only does what's currently playing. I use it once in a while. There are times I catch the last five minutes of a show, get interested and just press select and I can start it over from the beginning.

[Jeremy W]

We should create a prototype and patent it.
It's already being done in a more limited way. Some cable companies will allow you to watch shows on certain channels (that they have agreements with) from the beginning if you tune in any time before the show is over.

[d0ug]

No.

The closest we have today is DirecTV on Demand.

That’s pretty much it. DirecTV would have to record all the shows on their end and have them on the on demand system, or make then accessible via a guide that ran backwards.

Brighthouse cable already does something similar here in Tampa for certain channels. If you tune to one of the supported channels mid show, you’ll get a prompt on the screen asking if you would like to watch the show from the beginning, at which point it will start playback via on demand. This only works on shows currently playing. you cant go back and watch a show from 6 hours earlier in the day.

And no, this is not like the live buffer while a directv box is turned off. This works on a channel you were not previously tuned to.

I am sure the feature will be coming to DirecTV if they want to stay competitive.

[tcusta00]

It's a lot easier to do with cable since they have the bandwidth built into their delivery system.

[RunnerFL]

Until time travel is invented

Who says it's not already? :D

[Jeremy W]

Who says it's not already? :D
I'd imagine we'd be running into people from the future if time travel were already invented.

[Upstream]

a) How do you know you're not running into people from the future.

b) If you're not running into people from the future, doesn't that imply that time travel is not invented in the future either.

[tcusta00]

Which leads to the logical conclusion:

c) time travel is not possible or our time is just so darn boring that no one from the future wants to visit us. :(

[beavis]

Reruns.

[Draconis]

Which leads to the logical conclusion:

c) time travel is not possible or our time is just so darn boring that no one from the future wants to visit us. :(

!rolling

[Jimbo2]

This is sorta being done by many network websites, where you can watch online shows that have receintly been show, of course this is on the monitor not your TV..

Jimbo

[dodge boy]

I want to be able to FF to tommorrow so I can get the PowerBall Numbers.... :)

[gulfwarvet]

I want to be able to FF to tommorrow so I can get the PowerBall Numbers.... :)


:lol: wouldn't we all :D:p

[curt8403]

Who says it's not already? :D

If Timetravel had already been invented, I would have used it to deal with the Grandfather paradox, where you travel backwards in time, kill your own grandfather before he meets your grandmother, which then negates your own existance so that you cannot travel backwards in time to do the deed in the first place.

[Jeremy W]

If you're not running into people from the future, doesn't that imply that time travel is not invented in the future either.
I have heard a theory that it is impossible to travel back to a time before time machines were invented.

Personally, I believe time travel is totally impossible. But the debate is interesting.

[curt8403]

I have heard a theory that it is impossible to travel back to a time before time machines were invented.

Personally, I believe time travel is totally impossible. But the debate is interesting.

A little off topic, but read Simon Hawke's Timewars series, that sort of explains why we would not know if some one was from the future, as they could and would not tell us.

[evan_s]

I could see allowing the DVR to go back into the past to setup series recordings or to find a show and then set it to record another airing of the show. There are other ways to achieve the same things but sometimes it would seem the simplest and most straight forward to go back a little bit and do it.

[d0ug]

It's a lot easier to do with cable since they have the bandwidth built into their delivery system.

Cable systems are extremely bandwidth constrained right now. The fact that most systems still carry analog channels eats up a huge swath of their usable bandwidth. That’s why most cable systems have a pretty lack luster HD line up in comparison to DirecTV/FIOS. And now with cable companies like Comcast offering 20mbit download speeds so they can compete with FIOS internet, they loose even more bandwidth that could have been used for HD channels. The most modern cable systems only have about 1ghz of usable bandwidth, whereas DirecTV has about 1ghz of usable bandwidth per orbital slot, with 5 slots in use, they’ll have about 5ghz of bandwidth once all the birds are turned on.

Most cable systems at this point are maxed out as far as HD goes, until they drop the analog channels. The FCC says they have to keep the analog channels on until 2012, If they want to turn analog off before 2012 they have to offer all of their analog subscribers set top boxes, so they can watch the digital channels on old analog only TVs.

So now they have to balance it between staying as is, and loosing high end HD customers that demand more channels, and eating into their profits to subsidize digital boxes for all their analog customers that cannot or will not upgrade their TVs.

[Jeremy W]

Cable systems are extremely bandwidth constrained right now.
Cable's bandwidth constraints are different than DirecTV's when VOD is concerned. If they set aside, say 12 QAM slots per node for VOD, they're set. DirecTV's smallest "nodes" cover hundreds of square miles, so giving 12 channel slots to VOD would be worthless because those channels would be maxed out 24/7, with a waiting list a mile long.

[Mike22NYR]

Here is a perfect example of where I couldve used this feature. Sunday night I set the Ranger vs Devil playoff game on 621 and when I got home at midnite, I went watch it and low and behold. I got a blank screen. I didnt realize the game was on Versus which overides regianal sport channels. I would have loved to be able to go back and record the game, but it cant be done.

[Jeremy W]

I would have loved to be able to go back and record the game, but it cant be done.
Oh, but wait! DirecTV is working on a feature to solve the exact problem you experienced. It's called GameSearch, and it will automatically search for a game if it is blacked out. Whether it is a recording or you tune to it live, it will search the guide to find it on another channel. If it's available, it'll tune/record that channel. In your case, it would have recorded the game from Versus.

[inkahauts]

Here is a perfect example of where I couldve used this feature. Sunday night I set the Ranger vs Devil playoff game on 621 and when I got home at midnite, I went watch it and low and behold. I got a blank screen. I didnt realize the game was on Versus which overides regianal sport channels. I would have loved to be able to go back and record the game, but it cant be done.


Like Jeremy said.. Game search is coming, and its fantastic....

[d0ug]

Cable's bandwidth constraints are different than DirecTV's when VOD is concerned. If they set aside, say 12 QAM slots per node for VOD, they're set. DirecTV's smallest "nodes" cover hundreds of square miles, so giving 12 channel slots to VOD would be worthless because those channels would be maxed out 24/7, with a waiting list a mile long.


Except DirecTV does not use sat bandwidth for OnDemand, it all comes over the internet, making the infrastructure cheaper for them, all they need is a big fat pipe from their data center to the internet. the rest of the data path is maintained by internet providers/customers. DirecTV doesn't have to invest millions (billions) laying coax and fiber in all the cities, its already been done for them by the cable companies, and Verizon FIOS.

Ill bet it pisses off cable companies and Verizon to know a competitor is using their infrastructure in such a way.

[Stuart Sweet]

The central issue is that by my calculations you need roughly 1GB per hour of SD and 8GB per hour of HD to buffer programs. If you just buffered your favorite channels for one day, in my case that would be roughly 5.5TB of space. I'd ultimately like to see all programming buffered for a week, and maybe in several years you'll see the petabyte drives that you'd need. If everything were buffered, you could go back and watch anything from the past week on any channel.

[RunnerFL]

I'd imagine we'd be running into people from the future if time travel were already invented.

How do you know we aren't?

A very popular theory is that all these "aliens" people see are people from Earth from the future coming back to observe.

[gregjones]

I have a slightly different take on this. I sometimes find the odd third show. It is the lowest priority series link but I would still like to see it. Imagine a setup where the "missing" episode would automatically be pulled down over VOD when available.

It would only work for networks on VOD and it would probably have some time lag. But imagine scheduled recordings failing over to the VOD when you run out of tuners. This would fit in well with the scenario outlined originally.

Keep a few hours of guide data. Put past episodes or shows on an autorecord list which would pick up the VOD item when it matches. This would be available once a show has started so that a person can see it in its entirety.

Good fit for technology

Uses existing pieces: VOD, autorecord, guide data
No need to buffer massive amounts of shows


Good chance of acceptance by the networks

Networks control commercials through VOD offering
Timing controlled by networks (by availability on VOD)
Chance of lift for new or developing shows


Good for users

Based on the guide, easy interface
Less dependent on network schedule

[jrinck]

Reruns.

"What's a rerun?"

http://www.ci.ulsa.mx/~elinos/WonderYears/gifs/wayne.jpg

[morgantown]

The central issue is that by my calculations you need roughly 1GB per hour of SD and 8GB per hour of HD to buffer programs. If you just buffered your favorite channels for one day, in my case that would be roughly 5.5TB of space. I'd ultimately like to see all programming buffered for a week, and maybe in several years you'll see the petabyte drives that you'd need. If everything were buffered, you could go back and watch anything from the past week on any channel.

A system does exist in Europe at least in the post-design stage that does what you refer to. Not implemented yet to my knowledge, but the design was proven. If memory serves, it is more of an "on demand" push system than an in-house DVR. Basically it let operators offer the past month plus of everything broadcasted on their system...

[Jeremy W]

Except DirecTV does not use sat bandwidth for OnDemand, it all comes over the internet
I know, and that's why cable has an edge as far as VOD is concerned. If DirecTV were somehow able to use the satellites to deliver VOD, they would have a much more competitive product.

[d0ug]

I know, and that's why cable has an edge as far as VOD is concerned. If DirecTV were somehow able to use the satellites to deliver VOD, they would have a much more competitive product.


I don't think we are anywhere remotely capable of doing that over satellite. About the closest you’ll get is to order hugesnet and hook that up to your DVR. Ill bet hugesnet will throttle your connection after just one OnDemand viewing. Satellite broadband does not have the bandwidth for sustained transfers that OnDemand would require. Hugesnet throttles high bandwidth users to keep access usable to everyone else that is getting their internet access though the bird.

Over the internet is DirecTV's best option at this point. There was talk over a year ago that DirecTV was going to use WiMAX for OnDemand, they still could if they make a WiMAX modem that can plug into the Ethernet port, or make a USB one which would require software support be added to the box for it to work.

[Stuart Sweet]

There is another option, and that is that DIRECTV could pre-spool On Demand content to your DVR based on your past viewing preferences. It could sit in that private area. I think I read a post about something like that once, but nothing ever came of it.

[gregjones]

I have absolutely no problems with the VOD speed.

[d0ug]

There is another option, and that is that DIRECTV could pre-spool On Demand content to your DVR based on your past viewing preferences. It could sit in that private area. I think I read a post about something like that once, but nothing ever came of it.


I think you are thinking of the 30GB or so that is reserved for the "Showcases" I have never seen much listed in showcases, I highly doubt there has ever been 30gb of video on there at any one time. They should just make that space available for our DVRs to use.

[JLucPicard]

If we're taking a vote, I vote that people plan their viewing better and avoid having to try to retroactively record something that's aired already. ;)

[Steve Mehs]

Cable systems are extremely bandwidth constrained right now. The fact that most systems still carry analog channels eats up a huge swath of their usable bandwidth. That’s why most cable systems have a pretty lack luster HD line up in comparison to DirecTV/FIOS.

I don't think you could find a much poorer HD line up then Fios, especially for what Verizon can do with it. I currently have 36 HD channels with cable, Fox Business News HD, Travel Channel HD, Speed HD and Starz HD get added on the 22nd, for a total for 40 HD channels, Verizon Fios offers 18 HD channels. With the contracts TW holds, I could probably see 60 HD channels before too long.

[d0ug]

I don't think you could find a much poorer HD line up then Fios, especially for what Verizon can do with it. I currently have 36 HD channels with cable, Fox Business News HD, Travel Channel HD, Speed HD and Starz HD get added on the 22nd, for a total for 40 HD channels, Verizon Fios offers 18 HD channels. With the contracts TW holds, I could probably see 60 HD channels before too long.


Hmm, I was under the impression that FIOS channel line up fell inbetween cable and directv. I dont actually or have used the service, so I cant say for sure.

[Steve Mehs]

I was wrong, 20 HD channels.

825 TNT HD
826 ESPN HD
827 ESPN 2 HD
828 NFL Network HD
833 HD Net
834 HD Net Movies
835 Universal HD
836 HD Theater
837 Wealth HD
838 National Geographic Channel HD
839 MHD
840 Food Network HD
841 HGTV HD
842 A&E HD
845 Lifetime Movie Network HD
851 HBO HD
852 Cinemax HD
853 Showtime HD
854 The Movie Channel HD
855 Starz HD

http://www22.verizon.com/content/fiostv/channel+lineup/channel+lineup.htm

Pretty sad my 'crappy 1950's cable company' offers twice the number of HD channels with more to come.

[d0ug]

I was wrong, 20 HD channels.

825 TNT HD
826 ESPN HD
827 ESPN 2 HD
828 NFL Network HD
833 HD Net
834 HD Net Movies
835 Universal HD
836 HD Theater
837 Wealth HD
838 National Geographic Channel HD
839 MHD
840 Food Network HD
841 HGTV HD
842 A&E HD
845 Lifetime Movie Network HD
851 HBO HD
852 Cinemax HD
853 Showtime HD
854 The Movie Channel HD
855 Starz HD

http://www22.verizon.com/content/fiostv/channel+lineup/channel+lineup.htm

Pretty sad my 'crappy 1950's cable company' offers twice the number of HD channels with more to come.

I am quite surprised too. FIOS should have an ungodly amount of bandwidth available for HD. Seems like whatever department in VZ in charge of getting carriage contracts in place needs to step it up a bit, as that’s the only think I can think of holding them back.

As a side note, anyone have any technical info on how FIOS distributes their video? Do they broadcast all channels on the fiber, aka the same way cable works, just using light rather than RF, or is everything over their fiber IP based, and the set top box communicates back to the head end what channel you want to view, and then only that channel is sent, sort of like streaming video over the internet?

[Jeremy W]

Do they broadcast all channels on the fiber, aka the same way cable works, just using light rather than RF
Yes, it's just RF modulated over fiber, kind of like how regular HFC cable systems use their fiber. Their VOD is IP based, though. And U-Verse, which is DSL, is completely IP based.