Switching to Dish Network from Comcast

[ckmac97]

Hello everyone,

I'm thinking of switching from Comcast Digital Cable to Dish Network, and I have several questions.

Right now, I'm paying $67 / month for Comcast's Digital Preferred service, and $13.95 / month for their DVR. ($81 / month total!:eek2:) I also have a NetFlix account. My TV watching is split nearly 50 / 50 between cable / DVDs.

By switching to Dish, I could save nearly $30 / month. I was thinking of getting the America's Top 100, dishHD Essential, Philadelphia local channels, and DVR. This came out to around $49.99/month. Dish appears to have all of the channels I want to watch. BTW, I have an LG 42LC7D 720p HDTV.

I have a few questions before I make the switch.

Compared to Comcast Digital Cable . . .
------------------------------------------------

- How would you rate the picture quality (PQ), of the SD channels on a 720p HDTV?

- How would you rate the picture quality (PQ), of the HD channels on a 720p HDTV?

- How would you rate the PQ of local HD channels?

- How would you rate the ViP722 DVR compared to the Motorola DCT6412?

And, a couple more questions . . .
-----------------------------------------

- Does Dish reduce the resolution of HD channels? (HD-Lite)

- Does the DVR need to be connected to a phone line?

- Does anyone have any other advice, before I make the plunge? (Buyer-be-ware?)


Thanks for everyone's help. I appreciate your replies.

[exegesis48]

I figured I'd chime in as I've just recently left Dish Network for Comcast (very difficult decision indeed). I was very happy with Dish Network for the longest time, but I recently moved to an area where I can not get a clear OTA signal, so therefore I am no longer able to get my locals in HD and considering that 90% of my favorite shows are on the local stations, Dish just wasn't going to cut it.

At first I went with the standard Comcast DVR that cost me $13 a month and I realized that it was slowly tearing my family apart, so I decided to pitch it and go with a Tivo HD, which i got a really good deal on. If you look around you can easily get one for under $250, which was completely worth it. Also you save a bit more than you would with the montly DVR box rental fee from Comcast as you don't have to pay the HD enabling fee. But believe me, if you're using the Comcast DVR right now, the Dish ViP 622/722 will change your life. The Tivo HD is the only way to go after using the ViP. Also, if the main reason you are considering switching is due to cost, make sure you give Comcast a chance to negotiate with you, call them up and tell them that you are thinking of leaving Dish due to a better offer, they most likely will give you a great deal. I got an 18 month reduced rate that actually worked out cheaper than Dish because I left Dish for Comcast. Dish Network was wonderful, I was perfectly happy with it until I lost my local HD channels. But I will tell you one thing, not having the unsightly dish in my balcony is nice as well.

Compared to Comcast Digital Cable . . .
------------------------------------------------

- How would you rate the picture quality (PQ), of the SD channels on a 720p HDTV?
From my personal experience, I would say that the SD channels on Comcast are slightly better than on Dish, my wife agrees. My wife says that she really feels like comcast is clearer and even mentioned that the sound quality seems to be much better, and I would have to agree. (We have a Philips 720p Plasma Ambilight Display).

- How would you rate the picture quality (PQ), of the HD channels on a 720p HDTV?
I would say overall Dish has better HD picture quality, especially recently as Comcast has started trying to squeeze more HD channels into the QAM's and it's causing artifacts on some channels. There are a handful of channels on Comcast that aren't compressed though (HBO, Showtime etc, as well as Food HD and Discovery HD if i remember correctly). I definitely wouldn't say that the HD picture quality is a deal breaker for me though, as I get all of the HD locals on Comcast in full native uncompressed glory, which is what I truly desire. Having two tuners to record locals from in HD is very nice as well (If you are in an area where you can't get HD locals then you will be limited to OTA local HD only, which means you only have a single local HD tuner, in addition to two SD tuners.) So it's really up to you to decide whether having 2 SD tuners/1 OTA HD on the ViP or if you want 2 HD Tuners/1 OTA HD on the Tivo HD.

- How would you rate the PQ of local HD channels?
I think they look superb. If I am wrong, please correct me, but I don't think Comcast is allowed to compress the local signals, I think the FCC requires that they provide the locals as they originate. (I might be wrong though). Anyway, the Locals definitely look better than the overly compressed HD channels like MHD.

- How would you rate the ViP722 DVR compared to the Motorola DCT6412?
It slaughters it, hands down. I am telling you right now, if you do decide to stay with comcast, do yourself a favor and get a Tivo HD! PLEASE! You have no idea what you are missing. The ViP series is amazing as well. There's not a strong comparison between Tivo and the ViP series. My wife says that for ease of use, she prefers Dish ViP, but she likes how the Tivo always makes sure that you have something good to watch. By having the "Tivo Suggestions" option. The Motorola box is a piece of crap that crashed on me all the time due to overheating (I live in Arizona so it's not really a surprise). The Comcast technicians even admitted that they had problems with the Motorola box overheating and that I needed to make sure it was well ventilated (I had it in a open well ventilated flat shelf beneath the TV, what more do you want?!?). So there is no comparison, the Moto Box blows dogs for quarters. Get a Tivo, or switch to Dish immediately!


And, a couple more questions . . .
-----------------------------------------

- Does Dish reduce the resolution of HD channels? (HD-Lite)
Yes. It's not really that noticeable to some people though. Comcast reduces quality as well.

- Does the DVR need to be connected to a phone line?
No, but you will incur a penalty charge of like 6 dollars for not having it connected to a phone line or internet connection. You can hook it up through the phone line or ethernet port directly. Tivo needs a connection to the internet or telephone line as well, but you can easily buy a wireless USB adapter for the Tivo and get all the extra features that a networked Tivo offers (like transferring your TV shows to your computer for on the go viewing, dvd burning, or putting onto an iPod for easy portable video. It's nice to burn DVD's of shows that we enjoyed watching so that we can share them with our families who live far far away.

- Does anyone have any other advice, before I make the plunge? (Buyer-be-ware?)
Make sure that you personally double check all the facts before signing up for anything. CSR's these days will tell you almost anything to get you to become a customer, and most of them have no clue what they are talking about. Use this forum to get clarification if you are unsure about anything. Also, make sure you let Comcast know that you are thinking of switching. They may make it worth your while to stay.

[Ray_Clum]

One programming warning, however, is that you will not get Comcast Sports Net. So if watching it is important, you may want to rethink.

[mattfast1]

Most markets are able to get Comcast Sports Net on Dish now. Just something to keep in mind.

[Sparkman87]

Most markets are able to get Comcast Sports Net on Dish now. Just something to keep in mind.


But not Philadelphia, where the OP is from. CSN in Philly is not available on satellite.

[exegesis48]

Let us know what you decided CKMac. I'm interested to hear about your decision and experience.

[Cap'n Preshoot]

We recently switched from DirecTV toComcast, then 6 months later switched to Dish.

We had some unexpected startup issues w/Dish (installer incompetency which 8 installers later was finally resolved) Alas, I digress.

Comparing D* vs Comcast vs E*, in summary E* (Dish) is the winner, cable is the loser and D* comes in just under E*

Both D* and E* are using MPEG4 compression on -some- of their HD channels. With D* the compression (in my opinion) was noticeable and very much detracted from the PQ. We didn't notice this with either Cable or Dish, but the SD channels on cable I felt were worse PQ than either D* or E*

The E* VIP722 DVR kicks butt, period.

We've had some continuing problems with the E* 222 (HD receiver only, no dvr) so I can't recommend the 222, although since the last full reset it's been behaving somewhat better.

Speaking of resets..... We've had a couple occasions over the past 4 months of subscribing to Dish where we've also had to reset the 722. I do not recall ever having to reset any of our D* equipment, though their new HD receivers were a real disappointment to us. We had been spoiled by a couple of Hughes Platinum HD E86 receivers that we dearly loved, but D*'s new Ka band birds were not compatible and so D* refused to move them (on the free mover's connection" deal), which is why we left D* when we did.

Comcast PQ on HD channels was good but their basic and expanded basic tier (analog) was really bad.

Contacting Customer Support:
DirecTV was the hands-down winner in this category. Comcast was dead-last with Dish running a very distant 2nd place (just above Comcast).

Putzing with your account online:
Here again DirecTV came out way ahead of the others. It's as if E* tries to hide your "detail billing" perhaps in fear of you seeing something you want to cancel. Even when you finally drill down to it you still do not see the individual charges for your premiums. Online with D* I could do literally anything to my account; add receivers, remove receivers, remove incremental tiers as well as add them. With E* you can only add, again making it really difficult to cancel services. E* gets an "F" in this category.

The above having been said, anything is better than cable.

[mattfast1]

Glad to hear you're happy about our service and equipment. I agree on the online accounts part, and (as much as I hate to say it) the customer support as well.

In January 2008, E* took 15.6 million phone calls. From 13.8 million subscribers. I would expect customer service to improve a bit - considering each phone call costs E* roughly $5, that would make costs $78 million. For 1 month.

Ouch.

[ckmac97]

Right now, I’m pretty convinced that I’m going to switch to Dish Network. I’ve been pricing my communications “overall”, and I have some interesting results.

Currently, I have the Comcast Triple Play. It consists of:
- Comcast Digital Voice (CDV)
- Comcast Digital Preferred Cable with DVR
- Comcast High-Speed Internet (6 Mbps)

I’m still on their 12-mo. promotional pricing for two more months. I also have two Verizon Wireless phones with the 700 minute SharePlan.

Currently, (including fees / taxes) I pay:
-----------------------------------------------
Comcast Digital Voice ($40) + Comcast Digital Cable ($65) + Comcast High-Speed Internet ($34) + Verizon Wireless ($70) = $209 / Mo.

After the Comcast promotion ends, it will be:
-----------------------------------------------------
Comcast Digital Voice ($47) + Comcast Digital Cable ($84) + Comcast High-Speed Internet ($45) + Verizon Wireless ($70) = $246 / Mo.

I was planning on dropping the Digital Voice, switching entirely to Verizon Wireless, and upgrading my plan to 1400 minutes.

This would cost:
-------------------
Comcast Digital Cable ($84) + Comcast High-Speed Internet ($45) + Verizon Wireless ($88) = $217 / Mo.

I was planning on getting the following package from Dish:
- America’s Top 100 $30.39 / Mo.
- dishHD Essential $10.00 / Mo.
- Philadelphia, PA Local Package $5.00 / Mo.
- Dish Network DVR $4.60 / Mo.

This totaled to $50/Mo. If I commit to 24-months of service, the average price will be $45/Mo.

If I switch to Dish, the cost would be:
--------------------------------------------
Dish Network ($45) + Comcast High-Speed Internet ($58) + Verizon Wireless ($88) = $191 / Mo.

I have to have Comcast for internet. They’re the only broadband provider I can get from my apartment. Note to others: Comcast raises your rates if you only subscribe to 1 of their services.

Also, one of my family members has an extra Dish DP301 receiver that they owned, but are not using. They said I could use it for the extra TV in my bedroom. Which means my setup would look like this:

Type Location Receiver A/V Interface
---- -------- -------- -------------
HDTV Living Room ViP722 HDMI
SDTV Master Bedroom ViP722 TV2 Coaxial
SDTV Bedroom 2 DP301 S-Video

This would be an improvement over Comcast. I only have my HDTV connected to the digital cable / DVR. The SDTVs are receiving analog cable.

I’ve also come-up with my own pros / cons list:

Dish Network
------------
Pros:
- Much Lower Price.
- ViP722 DVR (Quadruple storage space compared to the Comcast DVR!)
- Already own a Dish DP301 receiver.
- Has BigTen HD, Discovery HD, HDNet, SciFi HD, & USA HD.
(I can’t get these from Comcast)
- Added more HD this week, and more HD channels coming soon.
- Complete Digital Setup

Cons:
- Fewer Channels (I can upgrade IF I want to pay more)
- Fewer HD Locals (MY PHL, PBS, CW)
- Lower SD PQ (According to the post above)
- ViP 722 has to stay connected to my router
(I just need to have the installer drill a hole in the wall.
My router is right behind my TV)
- Two-year Contract

Comcast
-------
Pros:
- More Channels
- More HD / SD Locals
- Higher SD PQ (According to the post above)
- On-Demand (Which I never use)
- Already Installed

Cons:
- Expensive
- Motorola DVR
- It’s Comcastic


And I have a few additional questions for the forum. (Thanks for responding!)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are there any additional fees / taxes on top of the advertised Dish rates?
Can the ViP722 DVR record 2 satellite HD channels & playback a 3rd?
Will Dish let me use the DP301 receiver?
Does the DP301 need to be connected to a phone line?
Does this private message look legit?


************************************************** ******************

I was surfing through the internet and noticed your blog looking for feedback on your possible impending switch to Dish Network. Please, allow us the chance to retain you as a customer. With your permission, I would like to forward your information to our Retention Department to see if there is anything we can do, that will satisfy you financially, in order to maintain your business. If you would like my assistance, please email me at We_Can_Help@cable.comcast.com providing the name on the account, your service address, and the best number to reach you.

We value you as a customer and I'm sure we can come to an agreement that will make both of us happy.

Sincerely (hoping you'll reconsider),
Melissa M.
Comcast Executive Offices
We_Can_Help@cable.comcast.com

************************************************** ******************

[CABill]

Are there any additional fees / taxes on top of the advertised Dish rates?
Can the ViP722 DVR record 2 satellite HD channels & playback a 3rd?
Will Dish let me use the DP301 receiver?
Does the DP301 need to be connected to a phone line?
Does this private message look legit?

You can record two sat HD channels (and if you have an OTA antenna, watch/record a 3rd HD channel). While that is going on, TV1 and TV2 have to watch something that is recording, or something already recorded. Two previously recorded (SD or HD) shows can be watched while the above records - but TV2 would display an HD recording in SD.

DISH would let you use the 301, but there is no monetary advantage to doing so. You could lease a 311 from them for the same $5/month that you would have to pay for the owned 301. If you got a 211 instead of a 311, you could get HD also, but it would add $2/month. The phone line requirement is for dual output receivers, or else pay the $5 no phone line fee. The 722 can use Ethernet to the Internet instead of a land line or VoIP device.

The PM might be quite valid (but surprising) - it can't hurt to email the comcast address.

Rather than borrow the family members 301, you should instead investigate ClubDISH. The referral will get the new sub a $30 credit and the family member doing the referral gets 10 $5/month credits. Give to the family member, not take. ;)

If your regional sports network is important to you, investigate closer. AFAIK, Philly has some cable only deal. Additionally, AT100 doesn't get you the regional sports channel. Might be a total non-issue to you, but don't get surprised. I've no idea if PA has taxes. No Sat TV taxes in CA - it depends on the state.

[Slipshod]

Are there any additional fees / taxes on top of the advertised Dish rates?

Not sure, if anything it would just be taxes and an access fee for the DP301. The lease fee is included in the DVR advantage pack. BTW, ask for the Cinemax for a penny deal. Gives you a year of Cinemax for one penny (renews for another year for a penny as wel) if you signup for paperless billing and autopay.


Can the ViP722 DVR record 2 satellite HD channels & playback a 3rd?

Yes, I used to do this all the time on the 622. It can also record a 3rd HD channel from OTA at the same time. You can also playback two shows at once, though only one of them will be displayed at HD resolution - the other gets downscaled to SD.

Will Dish let me use the DP301 receiver?

I don't see why not. They do charge you a monthly access fee for it though, probably something like $6/month. It ends up being the same as leasing a new one, so you don't really save anything. If you are only going to be driving a second SD TV, don't use the DP301. The 722 has a second TV output so you can have 2 TVs hooked up to it and watch 2 different shows at the same time, full DVR on both, and they both pull from the list of recorded shows. It's slick.

Does the DP301 need to be connected to a phone line?

I don't think so. Only the Dual-tuner DVRs need to be connected.

Does this private message look legit?

Well, the reply address is definitely comcast, and the verbage sounds right. Kind of surprised about it though.

[Hound]

I have both Dish Network and Comcast in central NJ. The only downside is
Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia is not on Dish Network. To me that would
be the most important reason to stay with Comcast. However, you may not
care. It is very unlikely that Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia will ever be on
Dish Network unless Congress changes a law that allows Comcast to keep
CSN Phila off of satellite. Do not get confused by statements that Dish Network
has most Comcast Sports Networks around the US. Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia is distributed by ground (terrestrial to other TV providers). Federal
law allows Comcast to withhold CSN Phila from satellite providers becasue it is
distributed by ground.

The other downside that you mention no HD PBS (12), CW (57) and MY (17),
on Dish Network can probably be remedied. The Dish 722 DVR has a digital OTA
tuner and since you live in Phila, you can probably pick those channels up with
a rabbit ears connected to the 722. 17 HD and 57 HD have very strong signals.
I get them very easily OTA in central NJ. Channel 12's signal is weaker.

Regarding PQ, I would not let that influence you. HD PQ is close. SD PQ is good
on some Dish channels and bad on others. Same with Comcast.

It all comes down to getting the channels you want first, and then the price. The Dish DVR is much better than the Comcast DVR.

[Hound]

[QUOTE=Hound;1560726]I have both Dish Network and Comcast in central NJ. The only downside is
Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia is not on Dish Network. To me that would
be the most important reason to stay with Comcast. However, you may not
care. It is very unlikely that Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia will ever be on
Dish Network unless Congress changes a law that allows Comcast to keep
CSN Phila off of satellite. Do not get confused by statements that Dish Network
has most Comcast Sports Networks around the US. Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia is distributed by ground (terrestrial to other TV providers). Federal
law allows Comcast to withhold CSN Phila from satellite providers because it is
distributed by ground.

The other downside that you mention no HD PBS (12), CW (57) and MY (17),
on Dish Network can probably be remedied. The Dish 722 DVR has a digital OTA
tuner and since you live in Phila, you can probably pick those channels up with
a rabbit ears connected to the 722. 17 HD and 57 HD have very strong signals.
I get them very easily OTA in central NJ. Channel 12's signal is weaker.

Regarding PQ, I would not let that influence you. HD PQ is close. SD PQ is good
on some Dish channels and bad on others. Same with Comcast.

It all comes down to getting the channels you want first, and then the price. The Dish DVR is much better than the Comcast DVR.

[ckmac97]

Thanks for your replies everyone!

- Comcast SportsNet is not an issue for me. I don't watch many sports, so my locals & ESPN will cover me.

- I tried using the internal ATSC tuner on my TV to pickup OTA stations using my apartment's antenna connection, but I couldn't receive anything. (This might be a problem in 02/2009 for some people in the building. I should probably notify management). I live ~8 miles outside of Philadelphia's northwest border.

- The DP301 receiver is from a family member who no longer has Dish. (Which means they can't get the referral bonus).

- I'll probably just use the ViP722 receiver for all 3 TVs. 98% of our TV watching is done on our HDTV anyway.

- Cinemax for a penny sounds good!

[jsk]

Comcast charges extra for Internet if you don't buy it for cable. I would check with them to see how much it would cost. I know that you can get a discount with Verizon DSL (if it is in your area).

I would bet there is a problem with your apartment's antenna wiring. You might want to try rabbit ears. One good thing about getting HD OTA is that it is the best quality available. With the 722, it is seamlessly integrated with the satellite channels. You even get full programming guide data.

[puckwithahalo]

I would suggest getting a 311 leased rather than using the purchased dp301, you'll have to pay for the 301 to be installed. the 311's install is included as part of the promotion (I know it doesn't make sense, just how it is)

[mattfast1]

The additional outlet fee on the 301 would be $5/mo.

The 722 can NOT be recording two satellite channel and allow you to watch a 3rd live show. You could use an OTA source for live tv, or be recording on one satellite tuner and the OTA tuner, leaving the 2nd satellite tuner available for live tv. You can watch anything previously recorded regardless, however.

As long as the 301 was purchased, and is on an account without a balance, it'll transfer nicely. If the account has a balance, you would have to pay that first, then go beat whatever family member gave it to you :hurah:

It does not need to be connected to the phone system. Only dual-tuner receivers are affected.

You might want to call Comcast to verify that private message.

[ckmac97]

I responded to the Comcast Private Message with a 2-page letter describing the financial / technical advantages of Dish Network. (Which I mentioned above). I received a response from Comcast corporate. They are giving me a generous deal (for the next 1 year). I think I'm going to take it, but it also feels like I'm being seduced by the dark side . . .


Hello, Chris!

First, I was very impressed with the time and effort that went into your letter. Thank you for the detailed information. After speaking to my contacts in the regional Executive Support team, I was able to initiate the following:

1 - Your promotion has been extended until April 20, 2009 for a lower rate of $98.99 before taxes and rental fees.
2 - DVR free for one year for 12 months (this is reflected in amount above).
3 - Because we back dated your promotion to begin this month, a credit of $94.02 was issued to your account. Unfortunately, as you are set up for direct debit, we were not able to change the payment made. However, you will see this reflected in your next bill.

I sincerely hope that this has been enough to satisfy you and if there is anything else I can do, please do not hesitate to contact me. Please keep in mind that you should always try the local channels first, before escalating your concerns to the Corporate Headquarters.

Thank you for choosing Comcast.

Best Regards,

Melissa Mendoza
Digital Media Outreach
National Customer Operations
One Comcast Center
1701 JFK Blvd.
Philadelphia, PA 19103

[Hound]

With ATT Uverse announcing 147,000 new subs earlier this week for the 1st Q, Comcast is most likely going to announce a six figure loss of TV subs for the 1st Q. Comcast mat even drop below 24M TV subs. Not
surprising Comcast made the retention offer. Most important thing is to get all the channels that you want.

[mattfast1]

"Come to the dark side... we have cookies..."

...

What if I wanted something else? Like cake? :hurah:

[BattleZone]

With ATT Uverse announcing 147,000 new subs earlier this week

I wouldn't count on very many of those Uverse customers sticking around for very long, once they figure out that they are limited to a single HD stream and a max of 3 streams. People used to 6-8 (or more) satellite tuners aren't going to adjust to those limits very easily.

[Hound]

The Uverse HD channel lineup is very attractive and priced right. I was looking at their Hartford CT channel lineup. NESN HD, CSNNE HD, YES HD, SNY HD, all seven locals in HD (including PBS, CW and MY), over 40 HD channels. I am not familiar with the number of TVs that can be hooked up, but for the average family just getting HD, Uverse will suit.

Verizon just announced 263,000 new subs 1st Q. That is 410,000 new subs in the 1st Q for the two telcos in a market that has a big slow down in new housing starts. Someone is going to take a big hit. My prediction is Comcast. D* will probably have another big gain. Maybe 400,000 to 500,000. E* will most likely be flat.