View Full Version : Why do companies always cater to the new?
I know the promotions are to gain new customers but you'd think they would want to keep their existing customers too.
I noticed new customers sign up and they can get a free HD-DVR upgrade.
I've been a customer for over 10 years. I've always paid my bill on time. I'm currently not in contract with them so I could cancel my service at anytime without facing a penalty.
$125 for them to come and install a VIP722 and I'd have to sign a 24-month commitment. I even asked them how much it would be if they just delivered and I ran the cables and installed it myself. No option for that - its $125 installed.
The main reason I chose E over D is because D doesn't carry my locals. Now I've learned both of the newer HD DVR receivers can record OTA programming if you set a manual timer.
So now I have to wonder why I shouldn't cancel E and switch to D. I noticed I can get an HD DVR and the monthly cost would basically be what I'm paying at Dish.
Stewart Vernon
04-21-08, 03:06 AM
I know the promotions are to gain new customers but you'd think they would want to keep their existing customers too.
I've tried to generalize this before in other threads. Basically, a new customer is harder to get and more valuable to a company so they try harder to get them. While I agree existing customers should be appreciated, the bottom line really is that if the company does what it promises then you should be a happy customer.
No one expects to get a free car from the same dealership they bought from before... or a special house discount when buying a 2nd home... and so forth... but people seem to expect something from their cable or satellite or phone or whatever company.
From the company's perspective... IF they lose a lot of customers, then they will be motivated to do something to stop the loss. BUT on an individual basis, it is usually not worth any major effort.
Why?
Because... a customer who asks for something special just for being an existing customer will keep asking as long as he keeps getting... and each time the ante gets upped.
This year you maybe just want $10 your bill... but next year you'll expect that (because it already happened once) + more. In order to keep enticing the "gimme gimme" customer who threatens to leave, you have to keep offering more. The thing is, if you let that guy go to a competitor... he'll treat them the same way! And likely he'll be back in a year or two anyway because he will just keep meandering.
A loyal customer will not make threats or ask for special bonuses.
I've tried analogies before... Say you have a friend. You might argue that a good friend will do a favor for you, sometimes without you even having to ask... BUT if you go to that friend and say "you should do something for me because you are a friend, and if you don't do it then I'll find another friend"... then you aren't being a friend yourself. IF your friend wants the friendship so badly that he does the favor for you under duress... then next time you know you can ask for more, at least until he gets tired of it.
FTA Michael
04-21-08, 07:40 AM
In a word, inertia.
Deals are extra good to prod viewers to leave their current TV service and switch to Dish. Once viewers subscribe to Dish, they will tend to stay Dish customers.
finniganps
04-21-08, 07:53 AM
Cost. If they gave better service to existing customers, cost would go up. Since the competitors don't they don't need to either....and they won't because we don't want to pay extra for it. If you go with cable you can call and they will come out for free to fix a cable problem. It's not really free - it's already in your higher monthly costs for cable (at least it's higher for my package). I'd rather pay less and take my chances that their won't be a problem, plus I prefer Dish. If I'm particularly concerned, I can buy the Dish protection plan which will reduce my cost if a tech comes to my house to fix something....I choose to not do that.
When I moved from cable to sat, it was a major change for all the members of the family. Everybody had to learn the new remotes, channel #s, etc. Not to mention the couple of channels that we lost. Talk about end of the world as we know it! :p
Installation was hard too, I had the house wired for cable and wanted to reuse it. It was hours of hand holding the installation tech for him to do what I wanted.
All this amounts to us not wanting to change to anything else unless the enticements are really, really good. I think Dish is counting on that.
On the other hand, $100 for a new HD DVR seems like a reasonable offer to me. They do have costs too.
tm22721
04-21-08, 10:40 AM
Just ask them to switch you over to customer retention.
fmcomputer
04-21-08, 12:50 PM
They already have your money
Modelmaker
04-21-08, 02:45 PM
It sometimes bugs me too when I think about the new subs getting the best deal. Then I remember back seven years ago when I too was special and got that new guy deal.
I've tried to generalize this before in other threads. Basically, a new customer is harder to get and more valuable to a company so they try harder to get them. While I agree existing customers should be appreciated, the bottom line really is that if the company does what it promises then you should be a happy customer.
No one expects to get a free car from the same dealership they bought from before... or a special house discount when buying a 2nd home... and so forth... but people seem to expect something from their cable or satellite or phone or whatever company.
From the company's perspective... IF they lose a lot of customers, then they will be motivated to do something to stop the loss. BUT on an individual basis, it is usually not worth any major effort.
Why?
Because... a customer who asks for something special just for being an existing customer will keep asking as long as he keeps getting... and each time the ante gets upped.
This year you maybe just want $10 your bill... but next year you'll expect that (because it already happened once) + more. In order to keep enticing the "gimme gimme" customer who threatens to leave, you have to keep offering more. The thing is, if you let that guy go to a competitor... he'll treat them the same way! And likely he'll be back in a year or two anyway because he will just keep meandering.
A loyal customer will not make threats or ask for special bonuses.
I've tried analogies before... Say you have a friend. You might argue that a good friend will do a favor for you, sometimes without you even having to ask... BUT if you go to that friend and say "you should do something for me because you are a friend, and if you don't do it then I'll find another friend"... then you aren't being a friend yourself. IF your friend wants the friendship so badly that he does the favor for you under duress... then next time you know you can ask for more, at least until he gets tired of it.
BINGO !!! You hit it right on the head here and it can't be put any better.
I don't know why it is with the satellite customer only that thinks every time they want to upgrade it should be for free.
When you want to upgrade your TV, Stereo, DVD, Microwave, car, computer, etc, etc, etc,.....the list goes on and on.................. do you get it for free or even at a discount? Then why would you think you should get new free hardware for TV.:nono2:
BINGO !!! You hit it right on the head here and it can't be put any better.
I don't know why it is with the satellite customer only that thinks every time they want to upgrade it should be for free.
When you want to upgrade your TV, Stereo, DVD, Microwave, car, computer, etc, etc, etc,.....the list goes on and on.................. do you get it for free or even at a discount? Then why would you think you should get new free hardware for TV.:nono2:
With the TV, Stereo, DVD, etc you usually buy those things and aren't leasing them. If I was actually wanting to own the new equipment then I'd gp and buy one, install it and call Dish to get it activated.
Leasing though ...
This is the way I see it. You have a new customer come in and he agrees to a 24 month contract and usually is offered the latest fancy gizmo they've come out with - currently I believe its an HD-DVR.
Now you have an existing customer no longer in contract with Dish. I don't see why they shouldn't be able to contact Dish and say they'd be willing to sign a new 24-month contract in exchange for an HD-DVR upgrade for the same price as a new customer.
Its not "free" really. The 24-month committment/a guaranteed 2 years as a customer is what you'd be paying for it.
I wouldn't expect them to just hand me a free HD-DVR upgrade without any strings attached and I wouldn't expect any special treatment over a new customer. If a new customer for instance really has to pay a $100 install charge or something I wouldn't expect anything more or less as an existing customer.
jclewter79
04-21-08, 05:38 PM
I've tried to generalize this before in other threads. Basically, a new customer is harder to get and more valuable to a company so they try harder to get them. While I agree existing customers should be appreciated, the bottom line really is that if the company does what it promises then you should be a happy customer.
No one expects to get a free car from the same dealership they bought from before... or a special house discount when buying a 2nd home... and so forth... but people seem to expect something from their cable or satellite or phone or whatever company.
From the company's perspective... IF they lose a lot of customers, then they will be motivated to do something to stop the loss. BUT on an individual basis, it is usually not worth any major effort.
Why?
Because... a customer who asks for something special just for being an existing customer will keep asking as long as he keeps getting... and each time the ante gets upped.
This year you maybe just want $10 your bill... but next year you'll expect that (because it already happened once) + more. In order to keep enticing the "gimme gimme" customer who threatens to leave, you have to keep offering more. The thing is, if you let that guy go to a competitor... he'll treat them the same way! And likely he'll be back in a year or two anyway because he will just keep meandering.
A loyal customer will not make threats or ask for special bonuses.
I've tried analogies before... Say you have a friend. You might argue that a good friend will do a favor for you, sometimes without you even having to ask... BUT if you go to that friend and say "you should do something for me because you are a friend, and if you don't do it then I'll find another friend"... then you aren't being a friend yourself. IF your friend wants the friendship so badly that he does the favor for you under duress... then next time you know you can ask for more, at least until he gets tired of it.
Nobody expects to get the first house or first car free either, apples to oranges.
With the TV, Stereo, DVD, etc you usually buy those things and aren't leasing them. If I was actually wanting to own the new equipment then I'd gp and buy one, install it and call Dish to get it activated.
Leasing though ...
This is the way I see it. You have a new customer come in and he agrees to a 24 month contract and usually is offered the latest fancy gizmo they've come out with - currently I believe its an HD-DVR.
Now you have an existing customer no longer in contract with Dish. I don't see why they shouldn't be able to contact Dish and say they'd be willing to sign a new 24-month contract in exchange for an HD-DVR upgrade for the same price as a new customer.
Its not "free" really. The 24-month committment/a guaranteed 2 years as a customer is what you'd be paying for it.
I wouldn't expect them to just hand me a free HD-DVR upgrade without any strings attached and I wouldn't expect any special treatment over a new customer. If a new customer for instance really has to pay a $100 install charge or something I wouldn't expect anything more or less as an existing customer.
OK......so using your "leasing" argument, what about those who lease cars?
No cost at all for getting into a new leased car?
PhantomOG
04-21-08, 05:56 PM
OK......so using your "leasing" argument, what about those who lease cars?
No cost at all for getting into a new leased car?
I understand both sides of the argument, but really, who cares about other types of products -- they are not related and inconsequential.
I compare satellite to cable. They both offer the same service. With most cable companies, you pay a monthly fee to "lease" their equipment. That's fine with me, since I would have no use for said equipment without their service as well. If the cable box breaks, I get a new one -- no cost to me. If the cable companies get a introduces a new whiz bang cable box with new features, I get that for free as well, as long as I pay the appropriate lease fee. I'm also free to cancel service at any time. Makes sense to me as a customer. The "lease" fee is nothing more to me really than breaking down of the total monthly service cost.
Its the same situation for satellite companies. Why do I have to buy equipment in order for them to sell me a service? The equipment they sell to me is of no use to me if I stop paying for their service. It is still valuable to them since they can use it still for another customer. The service provider should be responsible and owner of the necessary equipment needed to sell their service.
OK......so using your "leasing" argument, what about those who lease cars?
No cost at all for getting into a new leased car?
Cars and satellites are 2 completely different items and the leasing options are different usually. With a satellite you basically are leasing indefinately. You're not leasing to own like you do with cars.
With a car you lease for something like 5 years and at the end of that term you usually have to pay whatever you owe if you want to keep the car. That price is usually given in the fine print when you buy too.
They should offer you whatever deal new customers are getting to lease a new vehicle. If they say "Pay $0 down and lease this car for $199 a month" then you should get the same deal. If the offer is "$500 down and $250 a month" it should be the same deal.
Now of course if bring in a car that's not in great condition and the value of it is say $2000 based on kelly blue book and the fine print had said you owe $2500 at the end of your lease then you'd be responsible for the $500 difference.
The same with satellite receivers - if the case on your old one got dented under your watch or something and it wasn't in good condition you should have to pay for the repair on that.
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I know it comes down to its easier to keep a customer once you get them. I don't have any intention of switching from Dish since I've been happy with what I've gotten so far. It just bugs me every time I see these new offers for Dish and every other company out there in the world for new customers and nothing is ever as good for existing customers.
Stewart Vernon
04-21-08, 07:00 PM
Part of the problem is people who keep wanting to be "new" every time.
You only get to be a first-time home buyer once. You only get to be a first-time car buyer once. You only get to sign up with Dish network for the first time once.
Your first time as a new customer, you get whatever the best new customer deal there is to have at the time. Cool beans! But to expect to be new again every time and always get the same new customer deal every year, or two depending upon your contract?
Some folks want to compare cable to satellite... and note that cable has no commitments. True. So then why sign up with satellite? If cable is better and has no commitments, go with cable! Surely you go with satellite under this scenario because it was better, right? So if it is still better, why compare to cable every time and say cable has no commitments?
It's all well and good to ask Dish (or DirecTV or whomever) for the best deal. Never hurts to ask! But if they don't have a better offer for you, and there should really be no expectation that they will... then you either stay or go based upon your decision.
I've been with the same car insurance company all my life. I check prices from time to time, but no other company is significantly cheaper. I get several layers of discount based upon being a long-time customer and multiple insured items, etc... but if I were to strongarm them and say "I'll go elsewhere if you don't give me a better deal" they will say "bye, have a nice life!"... and then once I've established myself as a deal-seeker, changing for the best price... then NO company will touch me with a ten-foot pole in offering their best deal because they know I'll switch tomorrow for a better one.
So... once you leave Dish because you didn't get the new customer freebie twice... Dish has you flagged as a deal-demander. DirecTV flags you from the start if you tell them you just left Dish for a better deal. DirecTV now knows you will leave them in 24 months if they don't bribe you to stay.. and then what? You'll go to cable or back to Dish. Eventually you'll make the rounds several times... each time locking into a new commitment and not getting the best deals anyway because they know they don't have to offer it.
The problem with giving existing customers freebies is that it becomes increasingly expensive and gains you nothing. You "gain" an existing customer that you had already. IF you're going to have to bribe someone, you're better off bribing a new customer that you never had before. Odds are that most new customers who like your service will stay and not demand a new freebie again and that's exactly what you want. You give the freebie to help sway that initial choice. IF you have to give freebies every time, then either you have a customer who isn't worth winning OR you have a service that isn't worth it to your customers.
I've been with the same car insurance company all my life. I check prices from time to time, but no other company is significantly cheaper. I get several layers of discount based upon being a long-time customer
See they offer you something for being a long time customer. I think I've been given a PPV movie coupon before once or twice in 10 years. I guess that's something but since I never watch PPV movies it doesn't help me any.
I understand them being hesistant of a "deal-jumper" but I definately don't jump to another company just to get a "new customer" deal. I've had the same phone service for 15 years. I had the same car insurance for 16 years until recently and the only reason I switched is because I bought a new car and on my old insurance it shot up $100 but on a new one it dropped $50 below what the old car was on my old insurance. No special offers for new customers.
I really have no intention of going to Directtv but the way I see if they can see my Dish Network record they'd see I was a customer for 10 years and always paid my bill on time. If had someone like that was interested in becoming a customer for a company I own I'd definately want to try and get them signed up.
HobbyTalk
04-21-08, 09:47 PM
If had someone like that was interested in becoming a customer for a company I own I'd definately want to try and get them signed up.
That is why they give new customers better deals... to try and get those customers :) Fact is that it is far less likely that current customers will switch providers and that special deals are needed to get people to switch.
Say churn rate is 2%, if special deals for current customers could cut that in half, would it be worth giving 100% of your current customers a special price save 1% of the subscriber base? If the customer base was shrinking.... maybe. But that is not the case with E* or D*, their customer base is increasing every quarter.
jclewter79
04-21-08, 09:49 PM
You know, cell phone companies will give you the same offers as a new customer after you are out of contract. Seems like they could comp new receivers for existing customers but not give them the new customer programming discounts. Sounds like a nice comprimise.
HobbyTalk
04-21-08, 09:51 PM
You know, cell phone companies will give you the same offers as a new customer after you are out of contract. Seems like they could comp new receivers for existing customers but not give them the new customer programming discounts. Sounds like a nice comprimise.
They do, you can get a $550 reciever for $100. It would take 57 months of rental fees to make up for that diffeence in price and they only require a 24 month commitment.
crashHD
04-21-08, 09:53 PM
It's basically like marriage. Once she's got ya, she's gonna stop doing what she did to get ya. If you try to go anywhere else before the commitment is up, it's gonna cost a lot.:D :D
jclewter79
04-21-08, 09:54 PM
True but, at $100 dollars you do not own it so, I really don't think that is the same thing
It's basically like marriage. Once she's got ya, she's gonna stop doing what she did to get ya. If you try to go anywhere else before the commitment is up, it's gonna cost a lot.:D :D
:lol: I guess that's one way to look at it.
Stewart Vernon
04-21-08, 10:28 PM
I really have no intention of going to Directtv but the way I see if they can see my Dish Network record they'd see I was a customer for 10 years and always paid my bill on time. If had someone like that was interested in becoming a customer for a company I own I'd definately want to try and get them signed up.
Exactly... and they did sign you up, and there you are :) If you leave (or if you threatened to leave) then you would likely not be worth trying to keep because you'd do it again next year. But if you are a good loyal customer, then you are already there.
Think of it exactly from your perspective of owning a business. You advertise to get new customers in the door. You don't advertise to keep existing customers. Your product and service should be what keeps existing customers. Deals and advertising are what attract new business.
IF a regular customer comes in and spends money every month, that's exactly what you want!
If I have a business and I want $50 per month... but for new customers I offer a $40 per month 6-month deal... then you become regular and pay $50 after that time... Should I give you a $10 discount for 6 months every year? Every other year? Any time you ask? And say I do start giving you a $40 6-month period every year... then you are accustomed to that and start asking for a discount on what you usually pay... and so on...
The whole intention of a limited term new customer deal is to attract a new customer to try you out. The presumption is that your product/service is good and worth your normal price after the limited deal expires. IF you have to keep extending deals to keep customers then you are priced too high OR your product needs improvement.
The whole intention of a limited term new customer deal is to attract a new customer to try you out. The presumption is that your product/service is good and worth your normal price after the limited deal expires. IF you have to keep extending deals to keep customers then you are priced too high OR your product needs improvement.
I just checked the site and this is what new customers were offered after I built a system based on a DishHD only package and they agree to a 24 month committment. Also they showed no cost for the HD DVR.
* $120.00 in programming credits *
* $49.99 Activation Fee waived
* DishHOME Protection Plan free for 9 months
o Priority technical support
o In-home service
o Replacement equipment
o Free DishMOVERS program
As an existing customer though you have to pay $125 to change out equipment you don't even own but lease.
So with how much you have to pay as an existing customer vs a new customer getting the credits and getting DPP free for 9 months they're basically saying new customers are worth over $300 more than existing customers. Actually more than that because I didn't even include movie channels they constantly offer for a few months free.
I'd love to get programming credit and DDP for free for several months but I know that'd be asking to much. Really I think only asking them to waive the $125 fee if I agree to 24 month commmittment isn't asking to much. :)
Stewart Vernon
04-22-08, 02:22 AM
I just checked the site and this is what new customers were offered after I built a system based on a DishHD only package and they agree to a 24 month committment. Also they showed no cost for the HD DVR.
* $120.00 in programming credits *
* $49.99 Activation Fee waived
* DishHOME Protection Plan free for 9 months
o Priority technical support
o In-home service
o Replacement equipment
o Free DishMOVERS program
As an existing customer though you have to pay $125 to change out equipment you don't even own but lease.
So with how much you have to pay as an existing customer vs a new customer getting the credits and getting DPP free for 9 months they're basically saying new customers are worth over $300 more than existing customers. Actually more than that because I didn't even include movie channels they constantly offer for a few months free.
I'd love to get programming credit and DDP for free for several months but I know that'd be asking to much. Really I think only asking them to waive the $125 fee if I agree to 24 month commmittment isn't asking to much. :)
You're missing the point. IF a new customer signs up now and gets the current freebie... then in 24 months he will not be new and not elligible to get another freebie either! When you signed up for the first time then you got whatever that freebie was.
When I signed up for Dish they just barely had HD at all and you couldn't even lease an HD receiver. I got a free installation on my SD setup... but a year later when I upgraded to HD I had to pay about $1000 for my owned HD receiver (now obsolete) and roof stuff upgrade. About a year after that they had lease options for HD receivers and new customers could get one for free.. but those customers then had to pay to upgrade to an HD DVR when those came out.
It's a constant revolving deal. When you are new, you get the most current new customer deal. You can't compare this year's new deal with one from a couple of years ago because stuff changes.
And actually, this example you posted is the perfect example of what I've been talking about... By the time your commitment has been up you've already forgotten the last deal you got from Dish to sign up and now expect another... and you'll keep expecting another and another, at which point Dish will not be making a good profit from you if they keep having to give you freebies to stay. Dish is better served to give those freebies to a brand new customer who might stay without more freebies than to keep giving freebies to someone who has proven they can't make a profit.
jclewter79
04-22-08, 04:51 AM
Believe me, Dish makes a profit within the 24 months on a new customer with the deals they have. It is not a break even point at all.
jclewter79
04-22-08, 04:58 AM
I just checked the site and this is what new customers were offered after I built a system based on a DishHD only package and they agree to a 24 month committment. Also they showed no cost for the HD DVR.
* $120.00 in programming credits *
* $49.99 Activation Fee waived
* DishHOME Protection Plan free for 9 months
o Priority technical support
o In-home service
o Replacement equipment
o Free DishMOVERS program
As an existing customer though you have to pay $125 to change out equipment you don't even own but lease.
So with how much you have to pay as an existing customer vs a new customer getting the credits and getting DPP free for 9 months they're basically saying new customers are worth over $300 more than existing customers. Actually more than that because I didn't even include movie channels they constantly offer for a few months free.
I'd love to get programming credit and DDP for free for several months but I know that'd be asking to much. Really I think only asking them to waive the $125 fee if I agree to 24 month commmittment isn't asking to much. :)
You are spot on, it is not to much to ask at all. Don't forget that a new customer can pay that $49 dollar fee and waive the the $120 programming credits and sign up with out a 24 month commitment. How crazy is that. I purchased my first receiver to and I was proud to do it and was happy to own it but now the company is geared to wanting everybody to lease I don't think it is to much to ask for them to give an existing customer an HDDVR for free with a 24 month commitment when in reality the new customer deal is still $120 dollars better than that at least.
You're missing the point. IF a new customer signs up now and gets the current freebie... then in 24 months he will not be new and not elligible to get another freebie either! When you signed up for the first time then you got whatever that freebie was.
That's why I wasn't going to ask for free programming credit or them to waive the DPP for 9 months. I got some of that stuff back when I first signed on.
Really the only reason I posted the thread is because I constantly see companies praise and cater to new customers. "Sign up and get free HD Virtual reality Receiver!" - "Get a brand new latest cellphone that'll make waffles for free with 2 year committment" etc - Once you become a customer though you have to pay out the nose if you want to upgrade anything.
To me signing a commitment should be enough for them to give customers the latest equipment to use with no additional charge then the regular monthly price they charge for it.
puckwithahalo
04-22-08, 08:27 AM
True but, at $100 dollars you do not own it so, I really don't think that is the same thing
that $100.00 doesn't even cover the cost of installing the new equipment itself. It costs approx $80.00 just to get the tech to the home, not counting anything he does once he's there. Now, not all upgrades require an install, but those are also usually $50.00 less than the installed upgrade for the same receiver.
PhantomOG
04-22-08, 08:52 AM
I understand completely why new customers get good deals. I also understand the commitments. I don't like commitments and personally didn't sign one when I got Dish but at least it was an option.
What I personally don't understand is why people are so willing to pay large up front fees to lease equipment. No one does that with cable -- why is it suddenly ok for a satellite company? They both cost money and money to have someone install it. If the service provider wants to sell me the service, its their job to see that the infrastructure is in place, not mine.
It seems to me that satellite is somewhat cheaper than cable at least as far as the monthly programming so I guess it all just evens out in the end. So far my 622 still makes me happy and I don't feel a burning desire to get a 722. However, when a new DVR comes along that I do want, you can be sure I won't be paying a dime up front for it. If I have to cancel service for 30-60 days so be it, then I can sign up as a new customer again. Time Warner will be happy to have me as a customer for a month or two -- at cheap new customer rates as well.
puckwithahalo
04-22-08, 09:18 AM
What I personally don't understand is why people are so willing to pay large up front fees to lease equipment. No one does that with cable -- why is it suddenly ok for a satellite company? They both cost money and money to have someone install it. If the service provider wants to sell me the service, its their job to see that the infrastructure is in place, not mine.
a satellite install and a cable install are completely different. In most cases with cable, the only thing that needs to be done is a couple of already existing cables need to be plugged in. And there are times that the cable company will charge for an install. Just try having them run a line to a new room, or better yet, if there isn't already a line in from their junction box at the street (I don't know if its called a junction box, but you know what i mean). Hell, it cost my dad almost $1000.00 to get a line run from the street to the house because it was such a long run. (he couldn't get D* or E* because no LoS)
However, when a new DVR comes along that I do want, you can be sure I won't be paying a dime up front for it. If I have to cancel service for 30-60 days so be it, then I can sign up as a new customer again.
actually, its 6 months, and even then, you won't be guaranteed a new customer promotion.
PhantomOG
04-22-08, 09:44 AM
Hell, it cost my dad almost $1000.00 to get a line run from the street to the house because it was such a long run. (he couldn't get D* or E* because no LoS)
That's crazy. But definitely not the norm for most people living in the city as opposed to owning lots of land.
actually, its 6 months, and even then, you won't be guaranteed a new customer promotion.
Thanks, good to know. I imagine that by the time a new receiver comes along I want, Dish will give it to me for free but we'll see then I guess.
puckwithahalo
04-22-08, 10:02 AM
That's crazy. But definitely not the norm for most people living in the city as opposed to owning lots of land.
too true. i guess my point is that with most cable installs, there's really not much install involved. hook up a couple cables, send authorization to the box if there is one, and voila, good to go. with the D* or E* usually cables have to be run, equipment outside needs to be changed, or any number of other things need to be done. Ask a cable company to do those things, and they'll charge too, they just usually don't have to. (note, that is a generalization based on my past experiences with cable companies, and may not apply to some).
snowcat
04-22-08, 12:57 PM
Thanks, good to know. I imagine that by the time a new receiver comes along I want, Dish will give it to me for free but we'll see then I guess.
No, they won't. Expect to pay for a new receiver (at least if its a new HD-DVR).
I was a Dish customer for two years, but I left for Comcast because I wanted an HD-DVR, and Dish wouldn't give me a good deal on one. Then I left Comcast last year for Dish. As a returning customer, I was able to get an HD-DVR and two HD receivers for free, but I was forced to pay the $49 install and commit to 18 months (which was fine for me).
I probably will stick with Dish for a while, since they have the channels I want and great receivers (love that 622!).
tsmacro
04-22-08, 01:07 PM
Basically this is what it comes down to: Cable has decided to include the price of service, upgrades and installation as part of it's monthly bill to all of it's customers (yes there's some instances where they will charge extra for these if it's not "typical" but we're talking generally here) and as a result cable usually in most areas has higher monthly rates and it's not unusual for more than one price increase a year. Now satellite tv has decided on different business model, instead of spreading out the costs of service and upgrades across the board and charging a higher monthly rate for everyone it only charges the individual customer who needs/wants service or upgrading. In most instances you can get the service and/or upgrade for a rate quite a bit below what it actually costs the company depending on your history w/ the company and if you're willing to agree an additional commitment.
Cable companies and satellite companies have chosen two different business models, when choosing your television provider one thing you should consider is which way you prefer.
PhantomOG
04-22-08, 01:08 PM
I was a Dish customer for two years, but I left for Comcast because I wanted an HD-DVR, and Dish wouldn't give me a good deal on one.
How much did you complain? Email ceo? Just wondering, would be good to know.
They recently added HD locals here. However, they added it on 61.5 which no one here has a Dish for. I called and they told me it would be $100 to have someone come out and put the new dish in.
I wrote an email to ceo saying that was BS and that I would be leaving for DirecTV unless they installed it for free. Less than 72 hours after I sent that email I had the new Dish free of charge.
PhantomOG
04-22-08, 01:22 PM
Basically this is what it comes down to: Cable has decided to include the price of service, upgrades and installation as part of it's monthly bill to all of it's customers
I agree, and the lower monthly bill is one of the main reasons I switched to Dish.
However it just seems to me that *ownership* (for lack of a better word) gets really muddy with the satellite business model. When its convenient for Dish to own the equipment they do -- for example if you decide to cancel service they get the equipment back. But they don't own it when its inconvenient for them -- like if your DVR stops working, suddenly its *your* responsibility to pay for a new unit and shipping/installation. It may all work out in the end, but it just seems dishonest.
tsmacro
04-22-08, 01:41 PM
I agree, and the lower monthly bill is one of the main reasons I switched to Dish.
However it just seems to me that *ownership* (for lack of a better word) gets really muddy with the satellite business model. When its convenient for Dish to own the equipment they do -- for example if you decide to cancel service they get the equipment back. But they don't own it when its inconvenient for them -- like if your DVR stops working, suddenly its *your* responsibility to pay for a new unit and shipping/installation. It may all work out in the end, but it just seems dishonest.
I don't think "ownership" has anything to do with actually. The truth of the matter is if you need something fixed or upgraded there's a cost involved for the company in equipment and/or labor. So because it costs them money, it costs you money as well. What you have is a choice as to whether you prefer to pay a little more each month as part of your service to cover those costs or you can pay a little less each month and just pay the costs when you actually need service.
Stewart Vernon
04-22-08, 02:04 PM
I think a question of mine was buried in my long replies... so I'll ask it separately.
For those who think new customers always get a better deal, and want to get a deal... how often do you think you (existing customer) should be entitled to a deal? Every 12 months? Every time your current commitment expires?
Just curious.
And while I know people hate analogies... I pay my Dish bill, and they supply me with programming. As long as they get my money and I get my TV shows, that's the end of the transaction in terms of what we each owe each other. If I go to Burger King and pay for a whopper, as long as I get a whopper its a done deal. IF I go to Burger King every week for a year, that doesn't entitle me to a free whopper. Sure, the King could decide to give loyal customers a free whopper from time to time or offer free whoppers only to new customers... but ultimately all I am owed and have reason to expect is that if I order and pay for a whopper, I get a whopper. IF I want more than that, then I can always visit Ronald across the street and have a 1/4 pounder instead. Ronald might even give me a burger to get me to break away from the King... but once I'm at Ronald's place he isn't going to keep giving me free burgers to get me to stay.
PhantomOG
04-22-08, 02:21 PM
And while I know people hate analogies... I pay my Dish bill, and they supply me with programming. As long as they get my money and I get my TV shows, that's the end of the transaction in terms of what we each owe each other.
If my TV breaks I don't expect Dish to help me pay for a new TV. However, if Dish ships me a faulty DVR that dies 3 months after I get it, I'm supposed to pay Dish for a new DVR. How's that analogy?
I know it's just a small difference of opinion but I'm really surprised at the loyalty some people show to a company. If suddenly Dish hit every customer tomorrow with a bill for $100 to help cover the costs of the recent launch snafu, I really think some of you would be happy to pay it.
No, they won't. Expect to pay for a new receiver (at least if its a new HD-DVR).
I was a Dish customer for two years, but I left for Comcast because I wanted an HD-DVR, and Dish wouldn't give me a good deal on one. Then I left Comcast last year for Dish. As a returning customer, I was able to get an HD-DVR and two HD receivers for free, but I was forced to pay the $49 install and commit to 18 months (which was fine for me).
I probably will stick with Dish for a while, since they have the channels I want and great receivers (love that 622!).
That's what seems crazy to me. Take a few months off from Dish and return for $49 and get 3 new receivers. Stay with Dish and pay $125 for 1 new receiver. I guess the extra $76 is to cover those months for people who did leave because they couldn't get a good deal. :)
jwd
I think a question of mine was buried in my long replies... so I'll ask it separately.
For those who think new customers always get a better deal, and want to get a deal... how often do you think you (existing customer) should be entitled to a deal? Every 12 months? Every time your current commitment expires?
Honestly I think they should be able to try for a good deal every time their commitment is up. To get the deal though I think they'd need to sign up for a new commitment each time. That doesn't necessarily mean they get the exact same deal as new customers.
I think mainly customers should have the option to get the access to the latest available equipment every time their contract is up though.
Stewart Vernon
04-22-08, 02:55 PM
If my TV breaks I don't expect Dish to help me pay for a new TV. However, if Dish ships me a faulty DVR that dies 3 months after I get it, I'm supposed to pay Dish for a new DVR. How's that analogy?
If you buy the DVR, then it has at least 1 year of warranty. You may have to pay shipping in order to get a replacement during that year but this is no different than if your TV breaks and you have to ship it to the manufacturer or drive to a service center to have it fixed.
If you are leasing, then again you have to pay shipping in order to get a replacement.. and there is also the Dish Warranty you can pay for, again similar to a service contract you can buy at Best Buy or somewhere you buy other electronic agreement.
I agree that an under-warranty product that fails you should not have to pay for a new one... but all products require at least a shipping fee or something. I can't think of very many things that you can get a free replacement after 30-60 days... even if you figure carry-in to a local Best Buy or Radio Shack, you have to pay for the gas to drive there... so it still costs you something for that "free" replacement.
Stewart Vernon
04-22-08, 02:56 PM
I think mainly customers should have the option to get the access to the latest available equipment every time their contract is up though.
We do. I can't think of a product that Dish has ever refused to offer to an existing customer. The deal may be different but I can't think of a product that is exclusive to new customers only.
I noticed I can get an HD DVR and the monthly cost would basically be what I'm paying at Dish.Did you notice that the new D* HR21 HD DVR doesn't feature OTA tuners anymore? An external box is currently in testing, but it isn't available to the general public. The other DVR, the HR21-Pro, has been taken off the market due to a manufacturing issue that caused failed power supplies. It has no built-in OTA capability either.
Another issue with DIRECTV's OTA solutions is that their current receivers don't scan for OTA channels. You must declare what market(s, up to two) you think you get and hope that their guide data covers all of the channels that you can receive.
We do. I can't think of a product that Dish has ever refused to offer to an existing customer. The deal may be different but I can't think of a product that is exclusive to new customers only.
I guess I should say we should have the option to get the new equipment at the same price as a new customer gets it or at least what returning customer pay.
I mean if a returning customer (who was with the company for 2 years and left) can come back and get 3 new receivers for $49 install charge I think asking an existing customer (who's been there over 10 years) to pay $125 for 1 new receiver is overpricing it a bit.
Did you notice that the new D* HR21 HD DVR doesn't feature OTA tuners anymore? An external box is currently in testing, but it isn't available to the general public. The other DVR, the HR21-Pro, has been taken off the market due to a manufacturing issue that caused failed power supplies. It has no built-in OTA capability either.
Another issue with DIRECTV's OTA solutions is that their current receivers don't scan for OTA channels. You must declare what market(s, up to two) you think you get and hope that their guide data covers all of the channels that you can receive.
Yeah what I read about the Directtv DVRs didn't seem as promising. Also after the 1st year the prices go way up. Another sign of catering to the new. It seems like my best option would be to switch over to Directtv and then jump ship as soon as my contract is up then return to Dish and get a lot of "free" stuff. I don't want to seem like a "jump for a deal" kind of guy though.
PhantomOG
04-22-08, 04:06 PM
I guess I should say we should have the option to get the new equipment at the same price as a new customer gets it or at least what returning customer pay.
Another bad analogy but ...
For example, Verizon Wireless. Existing customers actually pay LESS than new customers with their New Every 2 program for phone upgrades. When you are out of your contract, you get $100 off the new customer 2-year agreement price for signing a new 2 year agreement.
Stewart Vernon
04-22-08, 04:22 PM
I guess I'm just missing what the big deal here is.
If you're happy with Dish, then stay with Dish. If you're only happy with Dish if they offer you something free, and they don't offer it, then go. If you come back in a year or two and get a better offer to come back, then it must have been worth it to you or you wouldn't come back.
I just don't see where all the debate is coming from. I've had companies that I was unsatisfied with... and sometimes they fixed the problems I had other times they bid me adieu and I went forward. Sometimes a company I left improved itself and I went back later... but I've never felt any sense of entitlement that because I pay my bills on time I am somehow owed something more than what they agreed to provide me when I pay my bill.
PhantomOG
04-22-08, 04:54 PM
IIf you're only happy with Dish if they offer you something free, and they don't offer it, then go.
I agree and will do so when and if its required.
Maybe I'm way off base here, but I'm just thinking that Dish would make more money by giving me a newer DVR for free with new commitment, rather than going through the hassle and expense of me cancelling, sending back equipment, losing my monthly payment for 6 months to cable, and then paying a contractor to come and re-hook everything up in 6 months along with giving me new customer pricing.
Maybe they're just betting on people not wanting to go through the cancellation process and forking over $XXX to upgrade to a new DVR. If people's response here is any indication, maybe they are right. Just not in my case though ;)
I guess I'm just missing what the big deal here is.
If you're happy with Dish, then stay with Dish. If you're only happy with Dish if they offer you something free, and they don't offer it, then go. If you come back in a year or two and get a better offer to come back, then it must have been worth it to you or you wouldn't come back.
I just don't see where all the debate is coming from. I've had companies that I was unsatisfied with... and sometimes they fixed the problems I had other times they bid me adieu and I went forward. Sometimes a company I left improved itself and I went back later... but I've never felt any sense of entitlement that because I pay my bills on time I am somehow owed something more than what they agreed to provide me when I pay my bill.
I actually never expected this thread to go this long. :)
I just wondered why its common practice for companies to offer all these great incentives for new customers but then do very little for their long term ones.
I've been happy with Dish. I'm sure I'll stick with them for the forseeable future too. That doesn't mean I'm not going to try and get a better deal than what they have listed on their site though.
Stewart Vernon
04-22-08, 05:15 PM
I just wondered why its common practice for companies to offer all these great incentives for new customers but then do very little for their long term ones.
It's just basic marketing strategy at work. Where do you spend the most advertising dollars? Do you advertise trying to get new customers? Or do you try to upsell to your existing customers?
Bringing in an entirely new customer is a big win! Keeping an existing customer is a small win.
IF you can keep existing customers without doing anything at all (beyond what they pay for of course) then it is foolish to spend money on them. Better to spend that money enticing a new customer who is not sending you money today.
There are some people who think they are owed something because they pay their bill on time. BUT oddly enough these same people don't feel they owe their boss anything because he pays their salary on time! :)
Stewart Vernon
04-22-08, 05:19 PM
Maybe I'm way off base here, but I'm just thinking that Dish would make more money by giving me a newer DVR for free with new commitment, rather than going through the hassle and expense of me cancelling, sending back equipment, losing my monthly payment for 6 months to cable, and then paying a contractor to come and re-hook everything up in 6 months along with giving me new customer pricing.
Maybe... but they definately make even more money by giving you nothing but what you are paying for! IF there was ever a mass exodus of customers from Dish, then you can bet they would start making enticing retention offers. This is how business works... but unless and until such a mass exodus happens, they make a lot more money by doing nothing but what they are paid to do. This is called smart business.
Companies bank on more people staying than leaving over such things... which is why they do keep track of the churn rate... and right now, Dish still has been gaining more subs than they have been losing in churn. Also keep in mind DirecTV and cable also have churn... and "churn" happens because people hop from one company to another... and for the most part "churners" are "repeat offenders" and will keep churning no matter what you do unless you really really roll out the red carpet.
Frankly, despite what we may think of ourselves, we aren't nearly as important to companies as we think we are. A million of us are important, but when's the last time a million disgruntled customers agreed to leave Dish at the same time?
puckwithahalo
04-22-08, 05:32 PM
If my TV breaks I don't expect Dish to help me pay for a new TV. However, if Dish ships me a faulty DVR that dies 3 months after I get it, I'm supposed to pay Dish for a new DVR. How's that analogy?
well, if its only 3 months old, the only cost is $14.95 S&H. and that's if you don't have the protection plan. if it's leased, the $14.95 is the most you will ever have to pay for a replacement. If you own the receiver, the most you would ever have to pay for a replacement is $64.94 (49.99 for the receiver, and $14.95 S&H), and even then, that's rare. Most out of warranty receiver replacements are $19.99 + $14.95 S&H. So even if you own it, you won't have to pay full price for a replacement, in warranty or not.... Seems more than fair to me.
puckwithahalo
04-22-08, 05:33 PM
previous post assumes that the failure of the receiver was not customer caused damage, neglect, or infestation of rodents/insects/small children
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