sat strength qestion

[l3laze]

all the transponders are awsome percentages except when i get to 103(c) and thats the hd sat am i correct? im getting an avg of like 70 on them all...some being low as 66% and some at 79%....could that be a major reason why i have audio dropouts on hd channels?

[Indiana627]

Yes, 103c is the national HD channels. And yes, those signal levels are low and are very likely the cause of audio dropouts. I have all 90s on my 103c.

[cody21]

all the transponders are awsome percentages except when i get to 103(c) and thats the hd sat am i correct? im getting an avg of like 70 on them all...some being low as 66% and some at 79%....could that be a major reason why i have audio dropouts on hd channels?

Which HD channels? you LOCAL HDs? or things like HBOHD, etc.?

[Mike Bertelson]

Which HD channels? you LOCAL HDs? or things like HBOHD, etc.?

This link will give you the locations of the channels

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1278596&postcount=1

Mike

[bwaldron]

all the transponders are awsome percentages except when i get to 103(c) and thats the hd sat am i correct? im getting an avg of like 70 on them all...some being low as 66% and some at 79%....could that be a major reason why i have audio dropouts on hd channels?

It certainly indicates that your dish needs tweaking -- you'll lose signal more quickly due to weather on the HD channels from that bird. But the symptoms of that should affect video as well as audio.

[l3laze]

yea it does have video issues too....but more on the national channels....locals seem fine....but once in ablue moon they will drop too so we just go to sd channel....

[litzdog911]

yea it does have video issues too....but more on the national channels....locals seem fine....but once in ablue moon they will drop too so we just go to sd channel....

We can give you better insight into your signal readings and possible reception issues if you provide more details ....

Please post back with your signal readings for each satellite's transponders (and both tuners if applicable). You'll find these readings under "Menu" -> "Setup" -> "System Setup" -> Satellite -> "View Signal Strength".

Fill in your readings for each satellite and tuner using these examples:


Satellite transponders (32 total at 101-deg)
1-8 # # # # # # # #
9-16 # # # # # # # #
17-24 # # # # # # # #
25-32 # # # # # # # #

Satellite transponders (3 total at 110-deg)
1-8 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA #
9-16 NA # NA # NA NA NA NA

Satellite transponders (11 total at 119-deg)
17-24 NA NA NA NA NA # # #
25-32 # # # # # # # #

Satellite transponders (6 total at 99(s))
1-8 # # # # # # NA NA
[Note: these can be very slow to appear]

Satellite transponders (16 total at 103(s))
1-8 # # # # # # NA NA
9-16 NA NA NA NA NA NA # #
17-24 # # # # # # # #
[Note, these can be very slow to appear]

Satellite transponders (16 total at 103(c))
1-8 # # # # # # # #
9-16 # # # # # # NA NA
17-24 # NA NA NA NA # NA NA

[l3laze]

will when tv is free

[l3laze]

Satellite transponders (32 total at 101-deg)
1-8 92 96 91 99 94 97 90 97
9-16 92 91 95 99 92 98 94 96
17-24 94 74 91 100 95 6 95 98
25-32 90 0 94 79 95 98 91 97

Satellite transponders (3 total at 110-deg)
1-8 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA 95
9-16 NA 94 NA 95 NA NA NA NA

Satellite transponders (11 total at 119-deg)
17-24 NA NA NA NA NA 85 86 87
25-32 0 85 82 86 79 89 92 88

Satellite transponders (6 total at 99(s))
1-8 97 0 96 0 95 0 NA NA
[Note: these can be very slow to appear]

Satellite transponders (16 total at 103(s))
1-8 0 0 0 0 0 100 NA NA
9-16 NA NA NA NA NA NA 98 0
17-24 84 100 57 24 0 0 98 99
[Note, these can be very slow to appear]

Satellite transponders (16 total at 103(c))
1-8 0 72 81 70 82 71 0 72
9-16 81 73 83 73 82 76 NA NA
17-24 85 NA NA NA NA 77 NA NA


103 C looks to be doing better right now then last time i checked...

[Indiana627]

It is normal for the 99s and 103s readings to be slow to appear.

Your 103c still look low. And the fact you have two a 0 is not a good sign either. If your national HD channels have poor performance as you say, then you need to have your dish realigned IMHO. As I stated before, my 103c are all 90+ and I never have any problems with national HD channels. Good luck.

And a good tech will be able to get your 103c in the 90s without sacrificing all your all sat readings.

[cover]

It is normal for the 99s and 103s readings to be slow to appear.

Your 103c still look low. And the fact you have two a 0 is not a good sign either. If your national HD channels have poor performance as you say, then you need to have your dish realigned IMHO. As I stated before, my 103c are all 90+ and I never have any problems with national HD channels. Good luck.

And a good tech will be able to get your 103c in the 90s without sacrificing all your all sat readings.

I arranged for a tech to come out and realign for 103c. My signal levels were only slightly higher than the OPs on 103c. The tech that came was unwilling or unable to fine-tune 103c. Looked like he only knew how to do standard peaking to the other sats. I specifically mentioned 103c several times when I arranged through DTV for the realignment. I may have ended up a point or two better, but not enough to make a real difference.

[bpratt]

I arranged for a tech to come out and realign for 103c. My signal levels were only slightly higher than the OPs on 103c. The tech that came was unwilling or unable to fine-tune 103c. Looked like he only knew how to do standard peaking to the other sats. I specifically mentioned 103c several times when I arranged through DTV for the realignment. I may have ended up a point or two better, but not enough to make a real difference.
Actually, the process for aligning the 5 LNB dish is to get the 101 satellite exactly centered on the dish. If done properly, the 103c signals should be in the mid 90s.

http://www.hometech.com/pdf/gc-au9s.pdf

[l3laze]

waiting for the man to come :) im getting the hr21-700....i have a hr20-700 in the front room....so we will see differnce wise :P btw is the vod already gonna be on it or will it be somthing i have to do on a friday night download?

[l3laze]

he has gotten it up low 90's high 80's and channels don't seem to drop out he's still here so we will see

[cover]

Actually, the process for aligning the 5 LNB dish is to get the 101 satellite exactly centered on the dish. If done properly, the 103c signals should be in the mid 90s.

http://www.hometech.com/pdf/gc-au9s.pdf

Thanks for that link. Apparently, then, neither the original installer or the tech sent to peak mine did this properly. None of my 103c signals are above mid-high 80s. Other sats look good in the mid-high 90s.

If I should really expect 103c signals in the mid 90s, as many here have suggested, what do I have to do to get the installer to do this right? I am unable/unwilling to do this myself due to the location of the dish.

Thanks

[carl6]

Mid to high 80's on 103c is acceptable. It might be possible to improve on that, but you won't get DirecTV to send someone out for those signal levels.

Carl

[l3laze]

so im noticing so is my uncle who had this installed today also noticed that some of the channels don't look as good as say espn on comcast vs dtv's

somthing we are doing wrong? both have hr21-700

should we have native on for best hd picture?

[bwaldron]

so im noticing so is my uncle who had this installed today also noticed that some of the channels don't look as good as say espn on comcast vs dtv's

somthing we are doing wrong? both have hr21-700

should we have native on for best hd picture?

ESPN won't look as good on DirecTV as some other providers, until they move it to MPEG4 -- it is still on one of the older birds in MPEG2, with a bit more compression than one would like.

Most HD channels on DirecTV, though, should look at least as good as they do on other providers.

[l3laze]

is there anywhere i can see what channels are mpeg4 and such?

[Indiana627]

MPEG4 HD channels include:

CNN
ESPNEWS
NFL Network
HGTV
FOOD
SPIKE
USA
SCI FI
TBS
HISTORY
TLC
ANIMAL PLANET

Just to name a few.

[l3laze]

MPEG4 HD channels include:

CNN
ESPNEWS
NFL Network
HGTV
FOOD
SPIKE
USA
SCI FI
TBS
HISTORY
TLC
ANIMAL PLANET

Just to name a few.


when will the rest switch over?

[Indiana627]

You mean the MPEG2 HD (ESPN, EPSN2, TNT, HDNET, a few others) to MPEG4 HD? Prevailing thought is that will happen once the D11 satellite is operational.

[l3laze]

yea... cause they look good but i can remeber the few comcast had seemed to jump out at me with the sharpness i know it has the ablity cause some shows come close

[Ruffread]

No one has mentioned that California Amplifier LNBs are apt to show a lower reading, sometimes as much as 10 points lower. If I3Iase has a CalAmp, and his readings are now in the mid 70's to mid 80's, in Southern California, I think that is about as good as you are going to get.

[K4SMX]

No one has mentioned that California Amplifier LNBs are apt to show a lower reading, sometimes as much as 10 points lower. If I3Iase has a CalAmp, and his readings are now in the mid 70's to mid 80's, in Southern California, I think that is about as good as you are going to get.
Doubt if that's his problem:

he has gotten it up low 90's high 80's and channels don't seem to drop out he's still here so we will see

[Indiana627]

No one has mentioned that California Amplifier LNBs are apt to show a lower reading, sometimes as much as 10 points lower.
Why is that?

[litzdog911]

Why is that?

Different internal hardware design.

[jodyguercio]

No one has mentioned that California Amplifier LNBs are apt to show a lower reading, sometimes as much as 10 points lower. If I3Iase has a CalAmp, and his readings are now in the mid 70's to mid 80's, in Southern California, I think that is about as good as you are going to get.

Im north of you on the 15 and my readings are in the mid 80s to 90s across the board with a CalAmp slimline.

[Indiana627]

Different internal hardware design.
Duh! So it has nothing to do with being in California?

[jodyguercio]

Duh! So it has nothing to do with being in California?

At least for me no, but there are exceptions to every rule.

[TomCat]

No one has mentioned that California Amplifier LNBs are apt to show a lower reading, sometimes as much as 10 points lower. If I3Iase has a CalAmp, and his readings are now in the mid 70's to mid 80's, in Southern California, I think that is about as good as you are going to get.Interesting, but that should not be viewed as an excuse for lower readings or that there isn't a problem. This sounds like an observation that could only be made by someone intimately familiar with how various LNBs respond, so my guess would be that the primary source of this information, correct or not, would be from a DBS installer who had seen a lot of LNBs.

That said, the metering is still in the receiver, which means if one LNB shows a naturally lower reading than another, that can only mean (all else held equal) that the one with the lower reading is doing a poorer job of providing levels within the operational window that the receiver expects, and that is a damned-good reason then, to avoid CalAmp LNBs like they were the plague.

And why would S Cal have readings different than any other CONUS location? The footprints are engineered to be fairly even, for a reason.

[TomCat]

I arranged for a tech to come out and realign for 103c. My signal levels were only slightly higher than the OPs on 103c. The tech that came was unwilling or unable to fine-tune 103c. Looked like he only knew how to do standard peaking to the other sats. I specifically mentioned 103c several times when I arranged through DTV for the realignment. I may have ended up a point or two better, but not enough to make a real difference.In fairness to the tech, he was only doing what he had been trained to, because the alignment for the 5LNB dish only refers to 110 and 119, and only certain polarities. Alignment of 103 and other Ka directly is not done; it is expected to fall in line automatically once 110 and 119 are dialed in properly. Many if not most installers have no presets in their DSLM for Ka because there is no need to, since alignment ignores Ka. But even if not in their training, by rights they still should, just to verify final alignment of Ka.

But that also does not mean a tech should not use the dither process, and they still should know how to respond to a customer complaint that HD channels (Ka) are problematic. The procedure DOES specify dithering, which becomes important for Ka, for one thing. Did the tech dither? (or simply wither--if the term seems confusing, read or download the slimline manual and check it out)

Ku alignment can be done to reach ballpark numbers ("satisfactory" numbers) and still leave Ka out in the cold. That is why conscientious, precise Ku alignment WITH FULL AND PROPER DITHERING is required. The focal points for Ku, being a lower frequency, are much larger than those for Ka, meaning that a "close enough" alignment that is actually 2-4 numbers down from the true Ku peaks, can be 10-15 numbers down from the Ka peaks, which means HD dropouts even if the core SD channels are OK. IOW, do a sloppy-but-OK Ku alignment and get bad Ka alignment in the bargain, with the expected $#!++y-to-marginal HD reception. Do a precise Ku alignment with proper dithering, and both Ku and Ka will be peaked.

But then that begs the question "how motivated is my installer to take the time to do that?" Unfortunately, the 5LNB requires a paradigm shift in thinking as to the approach to alignment. It's not harder, just different, and there is a lot of lethargy among installers who can get paid for more jobs if they do a quick-and-dirty alignment, which is exactly what they have been conditioned to do for years on the PHASE III dish. I would call and complain a second time. My guess is that whoever supervises installers is painfully aware that many are not conscientious, and that a second complaint is likely something they are all-too familiar with. IOW, your second complaint will probably not be unexpected.

Techs should be able to think outside the box on this sort of complaint. Realign precisely to Ku using the dither technique, and then verify Ka by numbers on the receiver, the last part which is unfortunately not in the instructions or training. But if you do your final fine-tuning on those Ka numbers instead of ignoring them, that guarantees a precise alignment. Again, and unfortunately, some of us have had to finalize the alignment this way ourselves.

[K4SMX]

Interesting, but that should not be viewed as an excuse for lower readings or that there isn't a problem. This sounds like an observation that could only be made by someone intimately familiar with how various LNBs respond, so my guess would be that the primary source of this information, correct or not, would be from a DBS installer who had seen a lot of LNBs.

That said, the metering is still in the receiver, which means if one LNB shows a naturally lower reading than another, that can only mean (all else held equal) that the one with the lower reading is doing a poorer job of providing levels within the operational window that the receiver expects, and that is a damned-good reason then, to avoid CalAmp LNBs like they were the plague.

And why would S Cal have readings different than any other CONUS location? The footprints are engineered to be fairly even, for a reason.
They're not all bad. There are a number of posts with Slimline Calamp LNB's in the 80's and 90's on 103(c). There's a bigger number of posts with signals 10-15 points lower than that, particularly with the AT-9 version. YMMV.

[andrens]

all the transponders are awsome percentages except when i get to 103(c) and thats the hd sat am i correct? im getting an avg of like 70 on them all...some being low as 66% and some at 79%....could that be a major reason why i have audio dropouts on hd channels?

I had numbers in the low 40s for 103(c). They came out and repointed. I'm in the mid 90s now. That was with cloud cover too. I was pleasantly surprised.

[TomCat]

They're not all bad. There are a number of posts with Slimline Calamp LNB's in the 80's and 90's on 103(c). There's a bigger number of posts with signals 10-15 points lower than that, particularly with the AT-9 version. YMMV.YMMV, but typically only because the skill and motivation of your installer may vary. IOW, If I can get my Slimline into the high 90's (sometimes bumping up against 100), anyone in CONUS should be able to (assuming the same dish/LNB, and no obstructions or incidental weather issues).

On the other hand, there are reports of DTV contacting AT9 customers who have not even reported a problem, and providing them with a Slimline, so maybe there is something about that dish/LNB that leaves something to be desired. I did hear that the Slimline was hotter than the AT9.

[cb7214]

i have been having issues with the NFL network today and I just checked 103C and the highest i have is a 44 i have no idea what happened because it was fine before

[litzdog911]

i have been having issues with the NFL network today and I just checked 103C and the highest i have is a 44 i have no idea what happened because it was fine before

Typically it's because ...
1. Your dish moved slightly.
2. Something is blocking your dish's view of the satellite.

But it could also be a Receiver or BBC-specific problem if you're only seeing this on one Receiver.

[cb7214]

Typically it's because ...
1. Your dish moved slightly.
2. Something is blocking your dish's view of the satellite.

But it could also be a Receiver or BBC-specific problem if you're only seeing this on one Receiver.

thanks we had a lot of wind this weekend and i had to go out and fix it about a half dozen times, but it finally appears all is well,

[K4SMX]

YMMV, but typically only because the skill and motivation of your installer may vary.......I did hear that the Slimline was hotter than the AT9.
The Calamp 103(c) deficiencies had nothing to do with the skill and motivation of the original installer. These were reports from members who knew what they were doing and were unable to peak their Calamp LNB's any higher than 75-80 on DirecTV10. This was back when DirecTV10 first went live, and they were highly motivated, as there was something of a national signal strength contest going at the time. :)

I have seen no evidence that the AU9-S is "hotter" than the AT-9. It is, howver, much more prone to problems with the interconnecting cables and connectors. There are compatibility problems with the Calamp version of the AT-9 and the HR20-700 on 103(s) which have been identified by DirecTV, so it wouldn't surprise me if there were some of those swapped, although I don't know how DirecTV would know what type LNB was on any given dish. If I had a properly functioning AT-9, I would put replacing it down at the bottom of my list of things to worry about....

[yarrumc]

all the transponders are awsome percentages except when i get to 103(c) and thats the hd sat am i correct? im getting an avg of like 70 on them all...some being low as 66% and some at 79%....could that be a major reason why i have audio dropouts on hd channels?

I will join you on this one. Mine are identical to that. This is even better than it was when it was installed (another story). Although I would believe that should be enough to get a fine picture, I noticed that channel 5 (LA) cuts out often, but the other locals seem stable. Why just one channel?