What's the next wave of HD Locals?

[krock918316]

I was reading the thread 'Jackson, MS might have HD locals now (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=126724)', and it got me thinking about what cities could be the first wave of HD locals turned on when DirecTV 11 is parked. I checked the list of Local Receive Facilities (available here (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=P1400108)), and compared the cities that have a HD Receive facility, but no HD locals. Here's what I found:

Cities with HD Receive Facilities, but no HD Locals

City DMA# Current Locals Satellite
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Baton Rouge, LA #94 119
Boise, ID #113 72.5
Burlington, VT/Plattsberg, NY #92 72.5
Charleston, SC #100 72.5
Colorado Springs/Pueblo, CO #93 101
Dayton, OH #62 119
El Paso, TX #98 119
Fort Smith, AR #102 72.5
Harlingen/Brownsville, TX #88 119
Lincoln/Hastings, NE #104 72.5
Norfolk/Newport News, VA #42 119
Richmond/Petersberg, VA #59 119
Rochester, NY #78 119
Savannah, GA #97 119
South Bend/Elkhart, IN #89 119
Springfield/Holyoke, MA #109 119
Syracuse, NY #80 72.5
Tallahassee, FL #108 119
Toledo, OH #72 119
Yakima, WA #126 119
Youngstown, OH #106 72.5

[mug]

Anyone have any idea when Altoona/Johnstown,Pa HD locals will be available?

[krock918316]

Altoona/Johnstown, PA is DMA#99. DirecTV has pretty well covered the top 75 markets (there are a few missing between 42 and 75). So if they just keep adding using DMA alone, you can see that there are about 25-35 markets ahead of you.

But, they don't seem to be using DMA size alone, as DMA#'s 110,111,122,150 and 199 already have HD locals.

[Mocco71]

Altoona/Johnstown, PA is DMA#99. DirecTV has pretty well covered the top 75 markets (there are a few missing between 42 and 75). So if they just keep adding using DMA alone, you can see that there are about 25-35 markets ahead of you.

But, they don't seem to be using DMA size alone, as DMA#'s 110,111,122,150 and 199 already have HD locals.

Some of those smaller ones are rare... and only have a station or two to add because they are bedroom DMA's to larger ones. The little one in MN comes to mind. I think that all they had to do was add one network to be able to say "this DMA now has HD locals!"

Also - don't forget, many areas that have HD locals don't have all of them. Last time I checked, Scranton Wilkes-Barre only has two.

[jefbal99]

Damn, Lansing doesn't even have an HD LRF yet. I was hoping with E* uplinking the Lansing locals that it might put some pressure on D*

[tonyd79]

Damn, Lansing doesn't even have an HD LRF yet. I was hoping with E* uplinking the Lansing locals that it might put some pressure on D*

Doesn't seem to work that way. Baltimore had DirecTV HD for more than a year before Dish even announced plans for it. DirecTV even took out full page ads about it in local papers here.

[tvjay]

I thought Toledo, Ohio was on 72.5.

[Indiana627]

How about Binghamton, NY? They don't even have SD locals yet.

Will D11 allow D* to launch most of the remaining DMAs without SD locals?

[Rakul]

Doesn't seem to work that way. Baltimore had DirecTV HD for more than a year before Dish even announced plans for it. DirecTV even took out full page ads about it in local papers here.

We can hope at least :D With Dish having Richmond, VA locals and DirecTV already having the agreement I was hoping we would be would be soon with D11.

[Grydlok]

You forgot Roanoke VA DMA. Rank 67 Local 119.

Another VA market got the screw.

[krock918316]

I thought Toledo, Ohio was on 72.5.

According to the SD LIL's by market (here (http://hr20.dbstalk.com/html/DTV_LIL_CITY.html)), Toledo is on 119.

[krock918316]

You forgot Roanoke VA DMA. Rank 67 Local 119.

Another VA market got the screw.

Roanoke, VA doesn't have a HD Receive Facility listed. The list only covers DMA's with HD Receive Facilities, but no HD locals.

[kevinwmsn]

I hope they go ahead and Mobile, Alabama - Pensacola Fl. It's DMA is 61. Dish just added the locals here yesterday. DirectTV made an announcement that they would have HD locals by the end of 2006. I guess by looking at the list in this thread it may still be many months????? I know there are other markets out there that were promised local HD by the end of 2006 and still waiting... a status report would be nice.

[Indiana627]

Will D11 allow D* to launch at least SD locals to the remaining DMAs without any LIL service?

[bozzaj]

I hope they go ahead and Mobile, Alabama - Pensacola Fl. It's DMA is 61. Dish just added the locals here yesterday.

I'll second that - The last I had heard it was something to do with LIN, but now that Dish has them I think that reason no longer really holds water.

Luckily I'm far enough away that I've gotten waivers (so far on everythng but ABC and CW) ... It would be nice to have the actual locals in HD though.

[krock918316]

Will D11 allow D* to launch at least SD locals to the remaining DMAs without any LIL service?

I can't find a post, but IIRC, new SD LIL markets will be MPEG4 (I believe that Palm Springs, CA was the first SD MPEG4 market). So I would assume so.

My hope is that the markets on 72.5 will move onto D11, and get HD at the same time. I'm in the Fort Smith, AR DMA, and we're on 72.5. I haven't heard anything about HD locals, but I found it was interesting that there were markets (like Fort Smith,AR) had HD LRF's but no HD locals.

[CuriousG]

(RE: Mobile/P'cola)

I'll second that - The last I had heard it was something to do with LIN, but now that Dish has them I think that reason no longer really holds water.

It could also be that Dish was willing to pay LIN's price when D* wouldn't. Or, even, now just months before the analog cutoff, LIN is more willing to make a deal since they are going to "have" to sooner rather than later. Let's face it, the closer we get to analog cutoff, the less negotiating power a TV station has with their digital signal.

[bozzaj]

(RE: Mobile/P'cola)

It could also be that Dish was willing to pay LIN's price when D* wouldn't. Or, even, now just months before the analog cutoff, LIN is more willing to make a deal since they are going to "have" to sooner rather than later. Let's face it, the closer we get to analog cutoff, the less negotiating power a TV station has with their digital signal.

Very true. Unfortunately (for DirecTV subscribers), now both cable *and* Dish have HD locals. I'm not sure if subscribers will wait another six months or more to get that same privilege. Since I've been waiting close to 2 years already (since they were first announced as "coming soon"), it's hard to continue to hear the same thng over and over.

[tvjay]

According to the SD LIL's by market (here (http://hr20.dbstalk.com/html/DTV_LIL_CITY.html)), Toledo is on 119.

Pretty sure that list is wrong because I am getting DirecTV on Wednesday and on my order it said that I have two dishes coming. Plus everyone here at my apartment complex has two dishes and they are not for international programming.

[evan_s]

I'm hoping that Portland, OR might get CBS in HD since we get all the other major networks.

[jmunick1]

If you notice, the highest two DMAs on the list are Norfolk VA and Richmond VA. There are several DMAs lower on the list that have already received HD locals. I hope that Norfolk and Richmond are the next two. It doesn't make any sense why they haven't received them already anyway.

[CuriousG]

Unfortunately (for DirecTV subscribers), now both cable *and* Dish have HD locals. I'm not sure if subscribers will wait another six months or more to get that same privilege. Since I've been waiting close to 2 years already (since they were first announced as "coming soon"), it's hard to continue to hear the same thng over and over.

Agreed, except I don't think we will have to wait six more months for HD locals on D*. With the combination of the added capacity of D11 and the looming analog cutoff, I suspect whatever was holding up the addition of HD locals in our market is no longer a major factor. Two to three months before HD locals for Mobile/P'cola is my prediction.

As for why the long delay since first announced, my guess is, at the time, one or more of the local stations tried to hold D* up for a lot of cash. If you are familiar with the recent past in our area, I'm sure you recall the WEAR vs. Mediacom debacle. I'm sure D* looked at the size of our market and determined we just weren't worth the trouble/expense of dealing with companies like LIN and Sinclair at that time and our market got moved to lower priority. A lot has changed in the past couple of years. Satellite subscribers have increased faster than cable, at least in the Pensacola area and, as I said, we are now just months away from the TV stations not having a negotiating position for their digital feed. With analog cutoff, there is only one option to get a TV signal and I doubt any of the local stations are going to be willing to snub all the DirecTV subs. The corporations that own these stations are well aware of their timetable, and I suspect the negotiations for digital retransmission have a rather different tone today than even a year ago.

On the other hand, for me personally, this isn't now, and hasn't been an issue. I have been using OTA antenna for nearly three years to receive the area's digital broadcasts (yeah, some of them have been on that long) and I plan to continue using the antenna even after D* can provide the local digital feeds. I have gotten used to the quality of a direct OTA signal, and of course, no rain fade on those channels. Where I am in P'cola, I get solid reception on all digital channels with my medium size antenna.

[knew001]

Here in VT we have all local channels in HD OTA. I have used an antenna to get them for over a year. I recently spoke to an installer that I have known for several years and he says he has been told that by this summer they will no longer be installing the 72.5 dish for the local SD channels. I assume this means they will be on the new sat in HD. But you know what assuming gets you.

[bozzaj]

On the other hand, for me personally, this isn't now, and hasn't been an issue. I have been using OTA antenna for nearly three years to receive the area's digital broadcasts (yeah, some of them have been on that long) and I plan to continue using the antenna even after D* can provide the local digital feeds. I have gotten used to the quality of a direct OTA signal, and of course, no rain fade on those channels. Where I am in P'cola, I get solid reception on all digital channels with my medium size antenna.

I'll all the way over in Bluewater Bay (close to the Okaloosa/Walton county line) so things are a bit more difficult. Not impossible I suppose, but a bit too much work to get all of them with a decent signal, if at all.

[CuriousG]

I'll all the way over in Bluewater Bay...

You would need a large antenna, a good deal of height, and a decent preamp. even then, you are on the far fringe of getting Fox and NBC, if you get them at all. I can certainly understand your desire to get the HD LiL's on D*. Soon, I think.

[brucegrr]

Toledo is on 72.5. We have to have two dishes. Toledo has been ready HD wise for a good while. Just waiting on Directv.

[krock918316]

I wonder who updates the LIL Channel guides?

[kevinwmsn]

In West Mobile, I remember the whole deal with Mediacom and LIN. Mediaccomm service was awful when I had it years ago. I like FOX programming and all, but I'll settle for half of them. Most of what I record is MPEG2 HD(Either locals in HD or ESPNHD) and that takes up twice the space as an MPEG4 HD equivalent. I thought DirectTV had a deal worked out with the Sinclair(ABC) Networks in other DMAs. There shouldn't be an issue with CBS and NBC.

[dbsfreak]

When is the Fresno Area Locals going to get our cw 59 in HD? I have been waiting a long time!

[skyviewmark1]

Yes Dish got the HD locals in Mobile/Pensacola.. But they didn't get NBC.. Some kind of contract problem on that one too. So no one is immune to Contract Problems. DirecTV told us we were going to get our HD LiL's in Q4 of 2006.. We are still waiting.. Dish never even mentioned Mobile until they showed up this week.. So maybe one day they will show up on DirecTV without warning.

[jefbal99]

I was emailing with my SD LRF engineer and he said that it will be the HD LRF also. The upgrade is in process

[sore_bluto]

I am predicting Mobile/Pensacola to roll out in the first wave of HD LILs from D11. And WALA won't be available.

[kevinwmsn]

I am predicting Mobile/Pensacola to roll out in the first wave of HD LILs from D11. And WALA won't be available.

The WALA part wouldn't suprised me considering the LIN and DirectTV relationship.

[inkahauts]

Will D11 allow D* to launch at least SD locals to the remaining DMAs without any LIL service?

Yes and the great thing about that is that it will also set everyone up in those markets to get HD with ease when the time comes.

[psychobabbler]

How about Binghamton, NY? They don't even have SD locals yet.

Will D11 allow D* to launch most of the remaining DMAs without SD locals?

Wichita Falls-Lawton DMA doesn't have local SD through Directv. Dish has had the SD for years and has also announced they will soon have the HD locals, as well. I wish Directv would get their act together here, at least with local SD. I know many people locally who don't have HD, who would be on Directv if they carried locals. Instead, they either go with Dish or the local cable company (which is horrible, if that even needed to be added).

Directv is losing a significant amount of money here. I see dishes everywhere, and they're almost all Dish, not Directv. For most people, antennas don't work well here due to where the towers are for Fox and ABC (in Oklahoma, about 40 miles away), so they go with Dish (and don't bother with HD locals, currently, but get their SD), or they go with cable, which has the three local HD channels, with NBC to soon fire theirs up, at least in time for the Olympics, though quite possibly sooner.

Directv should at least fire up the SD here. I know as far as DMA is concerned, Wichita Falls-Lawton is kind of low, but Directv could still make some good money here because I know people who are very motivated by the HD offerings that Dish can't match right now, and the cable company won't be able to match in the years to come. The choice only comes down to LOCALS. Read that Directv.

As an aside: This is not an argument for Dish, by any means. It's an argument with Directv. I've been with Directv for 8 years or so, and don't plan on switching any time soon. The only way I would switch is if I can't have Directv (i.e., move to a house that has LOS issues, etc.)

[Newshawk]

I wonder who updates the LIL Channel guides?

I maintain the LiL channel lists.

[krock918316]

I maintain the LiL channel lists.

There's the post I was looking for! :)

SD LIL shows Toledo, OH on 119. Several posters on this thread have posted that Toledo is on 72.5.

Just wanted you to be able to update your list.

[Dan9]

Will D11 allow D* to launch at least SD locals to the remaining DMAs without any LIL service?

My question to go along with that is, will Directv expand any DMAs, like in my instance being about 15 miles from the cutoff line of the Memphis DMA?? I think I should be able to get some local channels on Directv, I am in one of the biggest cities in Arkansas! Thanks for your responses.:)

[VARTV]

If you notice, the highest two DMAs on the list are Norfolk VA and Richmond VA. There are several DMAs lower on the list that have already received HD locals. I hope that Norfolk and Richmond are the next two. It doesn't make any sense why they haven't received them already anyway.DirecTV has listed a location where HD locals are to originate from in the Norfolk DMA. We don't have HD locals... yet... and the location is NOT of ANY TV station in the market... :confused:

[HD AV]

DirecTV has listed a location where HD locals are to originate from in the Norfolk DMA. We don't have HD locals... yet... and the location is NOT of ANY TV station in the market... :confused:

I would not be shocked if the location was midway between Richmond and Norfolk. That way D* could kill 2 birds with one point of origin. With a tower and the right antennas (as do most cable companies), they could obtain a strong signal from the stations in each market without the need for two separate facilities, underground fiber optics, and all the problems associated with getting the signals direct from the stations to each facility. I grew up in Petersburg and used to have a large VHF/UHF antenna mounted on the chimney and used a rotor. I had no problems picking up the (then) 3 Norfolk channels. Telling my age now.

[Newshawk]

DirecTV has listed a location where HD locals are to originate from in the Norfolk DMA. We don't have HD locals... yet... and the location is NOT of ANY TV station in the market... :confused:
It is the Norfolk office of Gately Communication Co., a business radio provider. They probably submitted a low bid to be the local receive facility for HD in Norfolk.

[KSbugeater]

Lincoln/Hastings was NOT launched today, sorry to my Huskers back home...

One report was early May... by Friday it will no longer be early May.

[HoTat2]

Speaking of HD locals;

Briefly, does anyone happen to know what the "A3" means in the EPG channel descriptions for the Los Angeles HD LiLs at least?

That is, when you move the highlight block all the way over to the left in the guide to the channel number designations for the HD locals. I see an alphanumeric "A3" followed by the station's call letters and indentification. :confused:

[KSbugeater]

I think it's a sound quality designation: the station broadcasts A3 sound (step below Dolby 5.1???)

[HoTat2]

That's what I thought it might be at first,

However I have failed to locate anything about an "A3" sound format. "AC3" of course, but nothing called "A3." There is mention of an "HD-A3." But that refers to a specific model of Blu-ray disc player I think.

Therefore still :confused:

[inkahauts]

A3 I think is Diretcvs way of saying AC-3, or Dolby Digital....

[dduitsman]

I was emailing with my SD LRF engineer and he said that it will be the HD LRF also. The upgrade is in process
jefbal,

Did you get any idea of how long the HD LRF upgrade takes?

I too am hoping my DMA is going to HD - but it's currently listed as an SD LRF.

Thanks,
dd

[Brian Hanasky]

My DMA Wheeling, WV/Steubenville, OH is #159. We don't even have SD locals.

I have been able to get waivers for ABC and FOX HD DNS (already have SD DNS for all big networks) but my local NBC and CBS won't grant waivers. The problem with NBC and CBS is that they believe I am able to recieve OTA based simply on the mileage from the transmission towers. What they don't factor in is that my town is shielded by ridges on the sides the transmission would come from. I can't get a signal OTA. Due to this I keep submitting waiver requests.

To all of you with a low priority DMA good luck.