A Downside to Digital TV

[Nick]

"...over-the-air digital signals behave differently from analog signals"

Mike Duffy wanted to be ready to switch from over-the-air analog TV broadcasts to
an all-digital signal that will occur across the country next February. His Chattanooga
hilltop home was nearly in the line of sight to a nearby TV station antenna and he had
never had a problem getting analog TV signals.

He assumed he would have no difficulty with digital signals. So he hooked up a digital
converter box to his old TV and attached the rabbit-ears antenna he had always used.
His new digital picture was sharp and detailed — for as long as he stayed in his chair.
When he stood up the picture would deteriorate into blocky images or disappear
completely. “It seemed to be affected by the position of people in the room. ...

More @ NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/24/technology/personaltech/24basics.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)

[Stuart Sweet]

I don't see the article mentioning the viewer's distance from the antenna or other technical problems.

[Jim5506]

Indoor analog or digital signals can bounce off of anything, even people.

the signal is behaving no differently, it's just the interpertation of the signal in analog is different that it is in digital (ghosts versus blockiness).

Put the antenna on the roof.

[angiecopus]

I have also had problems with signals with the converter box. Channel 22 out of dayton ohio keeps screwing up. Cant get the cbs station out of dayton ohio because if i put the attenna to the east then we will lose our cinci stations.
and now right now our abc station out of cincinatii is screwing up. analog never loses signals. This stupid goverment and the fcc should leave our analog tvs alone.

[scooper]

Sorry Angie - it ain't going to happen. Apparently there are still some issues to be resolved for your local stations.

[shedberg]

I live on a river and beleive it or not, my digital signals are BETTER in the spring and summer when the leaves are on the trees. I can only get one station in the fall/winter. I suspect bouncing but I'm not technical and am just guessing. BTW, the antenna is on a shelf in the den.

[scooper]

Get your antenna on the roof.

[shedberg]

I would if it wasn't for the fact that I have locals in HD. The only real channel I have to have is the PBS - which I get fine all year round. The other channel I like is a sub channel to the NBC affiliate that transmits local weather.

[tvjay]

I actually just went through this discovery last week. I bought an amplified rabbit ear antenna. I played around with it for over a couple of hours trying placement and what not. Than I remembered reading in a trade magazine that sometimes less is more with digital. I turned off the amp and all the signals increased. Than I extended the rabbit ears a little more and now they pretty much read 80% or higher. Some read 100% now. I even get a station thats some 30-45 miles away with NO AMP.

Digital may or may not be a little harder to get a signal but once you do, it will be a great picture.

[angiecopus]

I would if it wasn't for the fact that I have locals in HD. The only real channel I have to have is the PBS - which I get fine all year round. The other channel I like is a sub channel to the NBC affiliate that transmits local weather.


We live between Dayton and Cinci ohio and We have a bunch of TBN subchannels t hat i enjoy watching. as of right now i cannot get the abc station out of dayton.
these tv stations need to fix there problems or noone is going to get any tv station.

[Scott in FL]

I doubt highly that the local stations have a problem, so waiting for them to fix it will not help. There are a LOT of advantages to going digital (one example: the TV stations use a lot less power), and the majority of people like the switch. Unfortunately, some people and their installations will suffer. But it is going to happen.

Remember, when we switched to color TV a bigger antenna was required. When we went to FM stereo, signal and multipath problems occurred. But I don't think anyone here will argue that we should have stayed with black and white TV or mono radio.

Unfortunately, our government and the ATSC picked the wrong standard. Sinclair Broadcasting tried to bring this to everyone's attention, but they were too late. So we're stuck with a system that's more sensitive to multipath, which is usually the problem people experience. But then again, the States has a history of picking the wrong standard. We did it with analog TV, too!

[angiecopus]

The goverment should give us a choice, between analog and digital. those who want analog should keep analog and those who want dtv can have there dtvs.
i don't know why things have to change. and the next thing the goverment will do will force us to upgrade to broadband internet from dial up.

[Nick]

...the next thing the goverment will do will force us to upgrade to broadband internet from dial up....then what's next -- forcing us to upgrade from rotary dialing to touch-tone phones? :shrug:

[Hansen]

What's dial-up? Is that one of those folk lore things you hear about from your great grand father but are never sure it existed at one time. Kinda like silent movies, horse drawn cars, black white TV. .

[ajc68]

The goverment should give us a choice, between analog and digital. those who want analog should keep analog and those who want dtv can have there dtvs.
i don't know why things have to change. and the next thing the goverment will do will force us to upgrade to broadband internet from dial up.

Sarcasm? Things have to change because the analog space is nearly maxed out. Moving television to digital makes sense because of the modern evolution of the medium (improved picture and sound, while taking up less air space). There is a big need for more analogue space for communications such as police, fire, medical, etc. By moving television to the digital spectrum, it will free up much need analog space, while improving the quality of television. As with all conversions, there will be a few bumps in the road. But ultimately, this is for the best.

[angiecopus]

What's dial-up? Is that one of those folk lore things you hear about from your great grand father but are never sure it existed at one time. Kinda like silent movies, horse drawn cars, black white TV. .

i rather have dial up than pay for high speed internet thats really expensive.
my dial up is 19.99 compaired to 60.00 high speed.

[scooper]

Ohio - don't you have Embarq available ? They have some really reasonable low speed tiers that just blow out your dial up for speed and reliability. I don't know how much you're online, but when I was doing dialup - I had one dedicated phoneline for it, as well as the number we told people to use to call us. Getting DSL let us drop the 2nd voiceline and use the 2 of them to pay for our (then) screaming 512K /128K DS. I've never looked back since.

[angiecopus]

ok there is one positive thing about the dtv i can get my weather reports from diffrent towns around me. NBC weather Plus is a Big Plus. plus all the cool TBN subchannels and PBS. Maybe it is the next best thing.

[Kansas Zephyr]

Things have to change because the analog space is nearly maxed out. Moving television to digital makes sense because of the modern evolution of the medium (improved picture and sound, while taking up less air space). There is a big need for more analogue space for communications such as police, fire, medical, etc. By moving television to the digital spectrum, it will free up much need analog space, while improving the quality of television. As with all conversions, there will be a few bumps in the road. But ultimately, this is for the best.
A digital TV signal takes up the same space as an analog one. There is no "bandwidth savings".

The TV spectrum is losing channels 52-69. Those 700MHz frequencies will be auctioned for other services. All TV stations currently broadcasting on those channels are being moved "down the dial".

So there will be fewer "slots" for TV stations, after the DTV transition.

[ajc68]

i rather have dial up than pay for high speed internet thats really expensive.
my dial up is 19.99 compaired to 60.00 high speed.

Uh, you can get Verizon DSL for $12.99-$17.99 a month, and get similar prices elswhere if you shop around.

http://www22.verizon.com/content/consumerdsl/BridgeStandard/BridgeStandard.htm

[salemtubes]

i rather have dial up than pay for high speed internet thats really expensive.
my dial up is 19.99 compaired to 60.00 high speed.

Angie,

Is Road Runner available in your area? If it is, you can get Road Runner Light (768 kilobits per second) for 14.95 per month, and you don't have to subscribe to cable TV. Also check to see what DSL packages are available in your area. You might be able to get high speed internet for less per month than you're currently paying for dial-up.

Regarding digital vs. analog, maybe you need to invest in a better outdoor antenna setup. You're close enough to the Dayton and Cincinnati transmitters that you shouldn't have a problem receiving them with the right antenna setup unless there are other mitigating factors.

[jimbo09]

We've had that problem with OTA DTV signals. The kids can't sit too close to the TV or it blacks out. i guess when it was analog it would just fade out. Sometimes I have to open up the window next to the TV and antenna to get the signal....it doesn't make sense but I swear its true.

[angiecopus]

Yeah, THE WEATHER. we have had wind for a few days and that causes stations to go screwy. No in the Rural area we cant get any high speed internet.

[gfrang]

Were his rabbit ears antenna vhf only the new digital channels are on uhf for now anyway.

[southofi-10]

ok there is one positive thing about the dtv i can get my weather reports from diffrent towns around me. NBC weather Plus is a Big Plus. plus all the cool TBN subchannels and PBS. Maybe it is the next best thing.

Multiple channel broadcasts in a single channel spectrum is just one of many benifits.
Check you locals at www.tvfool.com.
many must not know that in almost every instance,your locals are broadcasting on another channel.here channel 2 is on channel 13 digital,and channel 2 will actually disappear afetr Feb.
I get a channel 62 miles away that was impossible with analog,and no interferance.It's either on,or off.Co channel interferance willkeep you from getting certain channels.
By all means,check your frequencies and put your antenna outside.It would be worth getting two antennas and pointing them in differant directions,or go back to ye ole rotor (still availbe)
tvfool.com has good info with distance and compass settings along with frequencies.
Good luck - Digital tv is here to stay

[TNGTony]

i rather have dial up than pay for high speed internet thats really expensive.
my dial up is 19.99 compaired to 60.00 high speed.

My 2.5 Mbps DSL high speed is $40 a month including fees AND INCLUDING a standard phone line. A standard phone line by itself is $25 a month.

Check into DSL instead of cable high speed.

See ya
Tony

[TNGTony]

A digital TV signal takes up the same space as an analog one. There is no "bandwidth savings".
Yes. You are correct that one digital channel takes up the same bandwidth as one analog channel. However, a city's worth of digital channels takes up a TON less bandwidth. Why? No adjacent channel interferance to deal with. All the channels in one market can be right next to each other with no problems. Before there had to be a minimum separation between channels. (for those that ddon't know channels 3,4; 7,8; and 13;14 are not adjacent channels. There is a gap in the spectrum used for other things.)

Also the buffer between two channels on the same frequency can be smaller since there is much less likelyhood of interferance. So taken as a whole, yes, digital TV channels will take up less bandwidth. That is why channels 52-69 can go away. Originally channels 2-6 were going to go ways too! But station owners fought that one tooth and nail!

Anyway, MORE digital TV channels can be shoved into the available bandwidth as a whole.

See ya
Tony

[BLWedge09]

Indoor analog or digital signals can bounce off of anything, even people.

the signal is behaving no differently, it's just the interpertation of the signal in analog is different that it is in digital (ghosts versus blockiness).

Put the antenna on the roof.

Get your antenna on the roof.

I really don't want to get into the whole argument of digital vs. analog, but what about the people who live in apartments? And don't say they should buy a house. It isn't a feasible solution for many people.

[Scott in FL]

Were his rabbit ears antenna vhf only the new digital channels are on uhf for now anyway.

Not all of the digital channels are on UHF. Our CBS affiliate here in Ft Myers is on channel 9 digital. There are quite a few digital channels on VHF now.

[Scott in FL]

However, a city's worth of digital channels takes up a TON less bandwidth. Why? No adjacent channel interferance to deal with. All the channels in one market can be right next to each other with no problems.

Before there had to be a minimum separation between channels. (for those that don't know channels 3,4; 7,8; and 13;14 are not adjacent channels. There is a gap in the spectrum used for other things.)

Yeah, but the TOTAL bandwidth used is still the same, no matter how many gaps there are.

And nit picking here, I admit... but there is no gap between channels 3-4 and 7-8. There is a gap between channels 4-5 and 6-7 (and also 13-14).

[reh523]

I really don't want to get into the whole argument of digital vs. analog, but what about the people who live in apartments? And don't say they should buy a house. It isn't a feasible solution for many people.


Apartment - get cable TV (I am sure it is there).

Is OTA a god given right or something? What about people who live to far from the towers?

[jclewter79]

Is OTA a god given right or something? What about people who live to far from the towers?

Deep fringe antennas and signal amplifiers.