Native on or off?

[bratboy]

Could use some help on which way to do things. Trying to set my TV and HR20 to the best settings and kind of confused. My TV's native res is 740p. What should I set the HR20 to? Should I set it to Native on/off and all resolutions or just to 740p.
Thx for any advice
Jess

[spartanstew]

Whichever you prefer. Try different settings and see what you like best. There's pros and cons to each (although you probably don't need to select any resolution other than 720 and 1080).

HERE'S (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=114430&highlight=native) a fairly recent thread discussing some of the pros and cons.

[TomCat]

I wonder if "native" is a true pass-through, or does it just map the output to the input?

If it is, maybe that would allow the CC decoder in my Sony display to be used once again. Typically, it does not respond to CC info once it goes through my Tivos, and I would have to use the one in the Tivo itself, which is not as good.

Otherwise, I can't imagine an advantage to native mode, since about all it does is determine whether rescaling will be done in the DVR or the display. Since rescaling is pretty non-destructive to PQ and done virtually the same way in elther location (simple math is simple math, no matter how you slice it), it would seem that native has no real advantage, and having it turned off allows the display to avoid a handshake delay when changing channels.

[mjones73]

Not all scalers are created equal, doesn't hurt to compare and see if there is any difference. Personally with my older RPCRT, don't really see a difference and it makes channel changing quicker when going being HD and SD channels.

[jodyguercio]

Whichever you prefer. Try different settings and see what you like best. There's pros and cons to each (although you probably don't need to select any resolution other than 720 and 1080).

HERE'S (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=114430&highlight=native) a fairly recent thread discussing some of the pros and cons.

+1 to this. Its all up to you and what you think looks the best and what works the best for you. Check the thread he linked you to as well.

[HoTat2]

Excuse me if this is slightly OT for this thread, but does anyone have an idea exactly what is the difference between "vertical stretch" and a newer category I don’t see covered in the manual listed after whatever resolution is set on the DVR as “+”

“Original format”
“(Screen format is unaltered)”

As they both look almost the same. With a stretching of the picture in the vertical dimension

:confused:

[bakers12]

The TV in the living room is a DLP and only displays 720p, so I keep native off with only 720p selected. The channels change faster, keeping Mrs. Baker happy.

In the "office," I use my Dell PC monitor (DVI input) which has no scaler at all. I keep native on (with 480i disabled) and let the DVR do as little as possible.

[veryoldschool]

Excuse me if this is slightly OT for this thread, but does anyone have an idea exactly what is the difference between "vertical stretch" and a newer category I don’t see covered in the manual listed after whatever resolution is set on the DVR as “+”

“Original format”
“(Screen format is unaltered)”

As they both look almost the same. With a stretching of the picture in the vertical dimension

:confused:
Now you have me :confused:
"Vertical" stretch? Are you using a 4:3 TV?
With my 16:9 I "only" have stretch [which is horizontal stretching].
If you don't use native "on", then original format will stretch a 4:3 [SD], but if you use native on and also have a 480 [i or p] resolution selected, then original format will send a 4:3 image to your TV [no pillarbars], which would be a "true pass through" of a SD program. This feature has been added for those that want their TV or external scaler to some form of stretch, zoom, or what ever to fill the full screen.

[HoTat2]

Now you have me :confused:
"Vertical" stretch? Are you using a 4:3 TV?
With my 16:9 I "only" have stretch [which is horizontal stretching].
If you don't use native "on", then original format will stretch a 4:3 [SD], but if you use native on and also have a 480 [i or p] resolution selected, then original format will send a 4:3 image to your TV [no pillarbars], which would be a "true pass through" of a SD program. This feature has been added for those that want their TV or external scaler to some form of stretch, zoom, or what ever to fill the full screen.

Yeah;

Sorry, I should have clarified it better. It is on one of my 4:3 sets, where an HR21 is down-rezzing the signal to 480i. And the question involves why is the horizontal (not "vertical" as I thought) "480i resolution + stretch format" mode virtually the same as "480i resolution + Original format (Screen format is unaltered)" setting as noted by the author toward the end of this article;

http://tv.ign.com/articles/852/852688p1.html

For example, from the images posted in the article:

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/852/852688/dailyshow-directv_stretch_1203109722.jpg

This "480i resolution + Stretch format"

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/852/852688/dailyshow-directv_newformat_1203109758.jpg

Looks about the same as this "480i + Original format (Screen format is unaltered)" setting.

[tcusta00]

Yeah;

Sorry, I should have clarified it better. It is on one of my 4:3 sets, where an HR21 is down-rezzing the signal to 480i. And the question involves why is the horizontal (not "vertical" as I thought) "480i resolution + stretch format" mode virtually the same as "480i resolution + Original format (Screen format is unaltered)" setting as noted by the author toward the end of this article;

http://tv.ign.com/articles/852/852688p1.html;

For example, from the images posted in the article:

This "480i resolution + Stretch format"



Looks about the same as this "480i + Original format (Screen format is unaltered)" setting.

So your question is "are they any different? or "why aren't they different?" It appears they are not, since the article has two screen shots that show exactly the same thing in the two different modes, and you're also reporting the same thing.

Now as to "why aren't they different?" Who knows. How would it be better presented on a 4:3 TV? I'd rather DirecTV spend development resources in places other than trying to put a square peg into a round hole (i.e., developing for the HD sets that this particular box was made for.)

FYI, your article link above has a semi-colon at the end which is causing a 404 error when clicked.

[veryoldschool]

Yeah;

Sorry, I should have clarified it better. It is on one of my 4:3 sets, where an HR21 is down-rezzing the signal to 480i. And the question involves why is the horizontal (not "vertical" as I thought) "480i resolution + stretch format" mode virtually the same as "480i resolution + Original format (Screen format is unaltered)" setting as noted by the author toward the end of this article;

http://tv.ign.com/articles/852/852688p1.html;

For example, from the images posted in the article:

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/852/852688/dailyshow-directv_stretch_1203109722.jpg

This "480i resolution + Stretch format"

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/852/852688/dailyshow-directv_newformat_1203109758.jpg

Looks about the same as this "480i + Original format (Screen format is unaltered)" setting.
There still is a bit of :confused: here.
First: the images you posted are for a 16:9 display. I have one so I do know how it works. With the DVR set to a 16:9 TV, if you don't use native on and have a 480 resolution selected, then what you see above is exactly what you get. There is no difference between stretch and original format.
If how ever you do use native on and have a 480 resolution, then the original format will send only the 4:3 image and also send the 4:3 flag for your [wide screen TV] to then change to the default setting for a 4:3 signal.
In your image #2, it looks as if the TV is set to "full" for the 4:3 image. This is why there is no change between the two images.
For an example of how I use original format: normally I use pillarbox to keep the image undistorted. When there is a SD program that is 16:9 [where the black bars are on all sides], I shift to my TV scaler to zoom and fill the complete screen. I have my TV set to zoom [default] for 4:3 signals. This means [now] that if I select original format, my TV does the zoom [which with my TV is a better picture than the crop in the DVR].
Before this "feature" was added, I needed to use my TV remote to change the format to zoom and then use it again to change back for HD or "normal" SD.
Once you have the TV set, you can now just use the DVR remote.
This also works for those that want to use their TV variable stretch for 4:3 SD.
So far all of this is for a 16:9 TV.
If you are using a 4:3 TV then you should use that setting in the DVR, which would then change "format" to the HD resolutions, and I'd guess make "original format" meaningless.

As for the "guy" that posted the article, he "missed" the [I]basic settings in his "TV".
Give that, I would have my doubts as to anything he's posting about DirecTV.

[HoTat2]

So your question is "are they any different? or "why aren't they different?" It appears they are not, since the article has two screen shots that show exactly the same thing in the two different modes, and you're also reporting the same thing.

Now as to "why aren't they different?" Who knows. How would it be better presented on a 4:3 TV? I'd rather DirecTV spend development resources in places other than trying to put a square peg into a round hole (i.e., developing for the HD sets that this particular box was made for.)

FYI, your article link above has a semi-colon at the end which is causing a 404 error when clicked.

OK fixed the link, thanks. Just did not understand why these two settings were the virtually same on 4:3 sets is all. As the author of the article points out.

[veryoldschool]

OK fixed the link, thanks. Just did not understand why these two settings were the virtually same on 4:3 sets is all. As the author of the article points out.
As I posted ^, the "author" doesn't seem to know much about how things work between the DVR and his TV. :nono:

[Greyduck]

Not all scalers are created equal, doesn't hurt to compare and see if there is any difference. Personally with my older RPCRT, don't really see a difference and it makes channel changing quicker when going being HD and SD channels.

I too, for the same reason, prefer faster channel changing with Native OFF. But I no longer have this option with the current NR of 0x022D. With Native OFF and Resolution at 1080i ONLY, the resolution will automatically change to 480p for all my local HD channels, but remains at 1080i for all other channels as expected.

This appears to be a bug as an intentional change like this to the NATIVE function doesn't make sense to me.

I also posted this issue in this thread:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1588100&postcount=13

This issue was peculiar to the DVR and corrected by leaving the DVR unplugged for over an hour. It didn't necessarily have to be unplugged that long to effect the fix, but Stuart Sweet — thank you very much — recommended at least 15 minutes.

[jal]

Yeah;

Sorry, I should have clarified it better. It is on one of my 4:3 sets, where an HR21 is down-rezzing the signal to 480i. And the question involves why is the horizontal (not "vertical" as I thought) "480i resolution + stretch format" mode virtually the same as "480i resolution + Original format (Screen format is unaltered)" setting as noted by the author toward the end of this article;

http://tv.ign.com/articles/852/852688p1.html

For example, from the images posted in the article:

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/852/852688/dailyshow-directv_stretch_1203109722.jpg

This "480i resolution + Stretch format"



http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/852/852688/dailyshow-directv_newformat_1203109758.jpg

Looks about the same as this "480i + Original format (Screen format is unaltered)" setting.

You will see the difference when using a sd tv hooked up with s-video. One is stretch-o-vision, the other is not.

[allenn]

I have an HR20-100 which would lockup if I turned native On. According to D*, there are issues with the native mode being On; something to do with the receiver trying to decide which resolution is best.