MPEG2 Transition and the TiVo religion

[gregjones]

EXTREME FLAME WARNING

I see this question pop up frequently: Why do we have to wait for the MPEG2 stations to go MPEG4? There are a lot of reasons but we keep sidestepping around the most obvious contributing factor?

How many people are holding on to their HD TiVos? Are they comfortable with the fact that they are slowing the transition? What good is the "best HD DVR ever made" if it only has a handful of HD channels on it? Many of these believers have promised to leave the second that their HD TiVos are not supported. Will they keep that promise?









Yes, I know there are tons of other factors. These include the HD locals, HD DNS, etc. I know the transition is underway, slowly. But I have seen far too many threads over the last few months espousing the enormous benefits of TiVo (I had two, they were great, I moved on) while ignoring the benefits of the new HD channels and the likelihood that there will never be another HD TiVo on DirecTV. So I thought I would apply the same irrational thinking I have seen in those posts.

[tuff bob]

How many people are holding on to their HD TiVos? Are they comfortable with the fact that they are slowing the transition?

One could argue that DirecTV is slowing the transition by not providing an MPEG4 Tivo. My wife hates the HR20 in virtually every way. She won't let the Tivo in the bedroom go.

[say-what]

How many people are holding on to their HD TiVos? Are they comfortable with the fact that they are slowing the transition? I don't think they're slowing the transition - the transition to mpeg-4 will take place regardless of how many people are holding onto their HD TIVO's. It already is - west coast feeds for ABC, NBC, CBS & FOX are already being moved to mpeg-4. Sunday Ticket, as well as other sports packages, will be mpeg-4 from here on out.

Once D11 is active, the transition will be quicker than some think.

Those HD TIVO's will only be good for HD OTA.

MPEG-4 is comming with or without the HD TIVO people.

[gregjones]

I don't think they're slowing the transition - the transition to mpeg-4 will take place regardless of how many people are holding onto their HD TIVO's. It already is - west coast feeds for ABC, NBC, CBS & FOX are already being moved to mpeg-4. Sunday Ticket, as well as other sports packages, will be mpeg-4 from here on out.

Once D11 is active, the transition will be quicker than some think.

Those HD TIVO's will only be good for HD OTA.

MPEG-4 is comming with or without the HD TIVO people.

I know. I was being satirical. I was wondering how many people would tell me that it was DirecTV's fault for not offering a new HD TiVo

[tuff bob]

I know. I was being satirical. I was wondering how many people would tell me that it was DirecTV's fault for not offering a new HD TiVo

congrats :rolleyes:

[1948GG]

Things move on, particularly in technology.

TIVO would like people to think they 'invented' DVR's; not so.

Just like INTEL would like people to think they invented the Personal Computer; not so.

Microsoft would like people to think they invented multitasking; not so. Ditto with networking/internetworking.

In virtually all cases, they may 'occasionally' get some dim judge somewhere agree with their arguments, but they eventually don't hold much water. But hyper-active public relations and skirting the (if any) false advertising laws gives these companies 'street rep', but little else. After a bit of time/money, it becomes urban legends.

"yep, this TIVO thing was the cat's meow in the day"

which day and which meow is the historical question!

Human Beings are generally creatures of habit. Those who decline to learn how to use something different than what they are 'comfortable with', are the ones we see every night on the local evening news, plowing their cars into buildings that they swear "wern't there yesterday!".

Progress (or sometimes what is substituted for it) marches on. In fits and starts. I'm sure that somewhere just a few miles from me in the bowls of Microsoft, sits a 1985 Amiga that is the 'cats meow' that their OS software people keep trying to beat; Vista is merely the latest 'attempt gone (maybe) wrong'. But it doesn't stop millions from using it.

But I think just about everyone (particularly those who were in the valley at the time of the TIVO birth and early years), can agree that they simply got hyper-greedy, wanting everyone in the company to be driving $250K cars, and having $10M mansions (in the day when $10M could get you something larger than a 4-bedroom ranch anywhere from Fremont to Palo Alto!).

Now, anytime they really want to recapture some of that market they've lost to clever folks with better ideas, they can. Simply swallow a bit of that pride and get back to work.

[vikingguy]

I am not giving up my hr10-250 it is a great OTA DVR. I work afternoon shifts and need a DVR I can depend on. All my important OTA recordings go on the hr10-250. The HR20s are nice but still have to many bugs. Like this week I had BSG blank record on me 2 times. I had to torrent the program no big deal since only I watch it. Now if that would of been grey's or lost I would of never heard the end of it. This latest software release has been very bad for my hr20 I have had 3 blank recordings already and well that is unacceptable to me.

[tuff bob]

Now, anytime they really want to recapture some of that market they've lost to clever folks with better ideas, they can. Simply swallow a bit of that pride and get back to work.

Other than MPEG4 satellite reception, I'd love to hear how the HR2X is "more clever" than a Tivo.

The HR2X is an intentionally crippled dual tuner DVR. I can just about live with it but my wife hates it that she'd rather watch TV with a HDVR2 on a 20' SD screen than watch TV on a 42' HD plasma.

[bonscott87]

Other than MPEG4 satellite reception, I'd love to hear how the HR2X is "more clever" than a Tivo.

The HR2X is an intentionally crippled dual tuner DVR. I can just about live with it but my wife hates it that she'd rather watch TV with a HDVR2 on a 20' SD screen than watch TV on a 42' HD plasma.

I don't know about "more clever" but it records my shows and I watch them. My wife feels the same, so long as she can watch her CSI reruns she's happy.

I'm not sure what else you really need? :confused: I don't. Record my shows and I watch them. Could care less if there is a cute Tivo guy dancing around in the corner or not.

[Steve Robertson]

I don't know about "more clever" but it records my shows and I watch them. My wife feels the same, so long as she can watch her CSI reruns she's happy.

I'm not sure what else you really need? :confused: I don't. Record my shows and I watch them. Could care less if there is a cute Tivo guy dancing around in the corner or not.

Very well put and that is all that really matters record and watch

[tuff bob]

Very well put and that is all that really matters record and watch

then you are perhaps happy with the HR2X. Last night I went over to the HR20 to watch House. No House recorded from Monday. No sign of the season pass or whatever the HR20 calls it. Mysteriously gone. I suspect I accidentally got rid of it by trying to record House and hit it enough times that the SP was gone. No warning of any kind from the HR20. :nono2:

[Steve Robertson]

then you are perhaps happy with the HR2X. Last night I went over to the HR20 to watch House. No House recorded from Monday. No sign of the season pass or whatever the HR20 calls it. Mysteriously gone. I suspect I accidentally got rid of it by trying to record House and hit it enough times that the SP was gone. No warning of any kind from the HR20. :nono2:

Well that sucks but I have had no such problems. I am sure if this happened to me I would be ticked off but it hasn't. The only issues I have ever had with these boxes is audio dropouts that have since gone away so I am a happy HR 20 700 owner again

[DodgerKing]

One could argue that DirecTV is slowing the transition by not providing an MPEG4 Tivo. My wife hates the HR20 in virtually every way. She won't let the Tivo in the bedroom go.
Funny. We still have a TiVO in our bedroom and an HR20 in our main room. Once I got used to the function on the DVR, I now prefer the DVR over the TiVO.

The DVR is easier to turn off and on (just one button instead of navigating through a menu to put in on standby).

The DVR allows me to switch between watching a recorded program and a live event by just pressing the previous channel button, and the recorded program automatically starts were you last stopped (I do not have to hit "resume" like I do on the TiVO). On the TiVO I have to switch between list and guide and press several buttons to go back and forth.

The DVR's colored buttons allow for easy and quick options. On the TiVO you have to scroll through several pages to do a lot of the same things.

Simply put, the DVR (HR20) has a lot of quick options without having to scroll through several subfolders and pages like one has to do with TiVO.

That being said, there are some features I prefer on the TiVO, such as the ability to have both tuners working simultaneously without having to record one of the programs. This allows me to pause one channel, switch to another, then when I go back, I can start were I left off. I can do this on the DVR, but I need to record one of the channels.

[tuff bob]

Ah yeah, the undocumented color coded buttons. Took me forever to find out that "green" lets you flip tabs. I still don't know when "exit", or "back" or the left circle segment is the right button to hit. I'd rather have a "On Demand" button than an Active button - yet another button thats easy to hit by accident that drives you crazy because its "uncancel"able. And I hate when a "please wait" is "uncancel"able.

Simply put, the HR2X is a Tivo without dual live buffers, a single live buffer that is frustratingly easy to "lose" and is inconsistent, a far less polished and far less intuitive UI. The only reason I have one is that it receives MPEG4. The fact that my wife cares about all the other things more is the reason we still have a Tivo in the bedroom.

[Doug Brott]

I'd say at this point the HR10-250 is a non-factor in any decision making. Sure, folks will get individual consideration if they have one, but those folks are more the exception than the rule.

[kimi]

One could argue that DirecTV is slowing the transition by not providing an MPEG4 Tivo. My wife hates the HR20 in virtually every way. She won't let the Tivo in the bedroom go.

I have to agree, the features of my HR21 are nice, but the execution sucks donkey balls.

I wish I had a Tivo.

[Indiana627]

I have to agree, the features of my HR21 are nice, but the execution sucks donkey balls.

I wish I had a Tivo.
We still have an SD based Tivo in our bedroom. I find it very hard to use now that I've have an HR20.

[Herdfan]

Actually, although I have 4 HR2x's, I am keeping 2 HR10's active because they fit my uses perfectly.

I have one in the living room that my wife uses to record her shows in HD via OTA and she shares it with our daughter who can record her shows in SD. That way my daughter doesn't fill up the unit recording Spongebob in HD. (I do wish you could hide certain HD duplicates on the HR2x's). The other HR10 is in her playroom for the same purpose, plus it serves as OTA backup of critical recordings.

So if D* is waiting for me to completely convert over to HR2x's, then they will be waiting a while.;)

[Steve Robertson]

We still have an SD based Tivo in our bedroom. I find it very hard to use now that I've have an HR20.

Same for me I can't remember the buttons on the remote anymore.

[ThomasM]

Ah yeah, the undocumented color coded buttons. Took me forever to find out that "green" lets you flip tabs. I still don't know when "exit", or "back" or the left circle segment is the right button to hit. I'd rather have a "On Demand" button than an Active button - yet another button thats easy to hit by accident that drives you crazy because its "uncancel"able.

The color buttons that are active ARE documented-right on the screen that you are viewing! (Except those when only regular TV is displayed but how hard is it to remember that blue brings up the mini-guide, etc.?)

I think the color buttons are a unique solution to "one button" functions without adding a zillion buttons to the remote or additional complex menus to negotiate.

[Indiana627]

Same for me I can't remember the buttons on the remote anymore.
You don't know how many times I've turned the TV off when trying to find the jumpback button, or how many times I've pulled up the guide when trying to get the list (or vice versa)!

[Steve Robertson]

You don't know how many times I've turned the TV off when trying to find the jumpback button, or how many times I've pulled up the guide when trying to get the list (or vice versa)!

I also have to keep redoing the 30 second skip for my wife on this box. She loves it and is not to fond of the HR's for whatever reason.

select play select 30 select I will be going to my grave with this one:lol:

[tonyd79]

I think the color buttons are a unique solution to "one button" functions without adding a zillion buttons to the remote or additional complex menus to negotiate.

A workable solution but hardly unique. Colored buttons have been on cable boxes for some time.

[gregjones]

It really comes down to a simple choice. Which is more important: the content or the DVR used to show it to you.

Many of us have decided that the HR20 is a viable solution given the overwhelming benefits of the MPEG4 channels.

Some have decided they love their TiVo more than new channels.

Still fewer hold out hope that some day, DirecTV and TiVo will have a productive relationship again. From my perspective, I believe that bridge was burned years back. I expect no reconciliation and have moved on.

[bonscott87]

The color buttons that are active ARE documented-right on the screen that you are viewing!

Exactly, they are all right there on screen. One only needs to *read*. ;)

[bonscott87]

I still don't know when "exit", or "back" or the left circle segment is the right button to hit.

:confused:

Exit...well...exit's the screen you're on. Pretty simple.

Back takes you back a screen (I never use it). Left does the same thing which was an added shortcut based on posts here that people wanted it.

Sounds to me like you just want it to be hard instead of freeing your Tivo mind and have an open mind instead. ;)

[Stuart Sweet]

I don't think TiVo is the only thing keeping MPEG2HD alive... there are untold thousands of H10 receivers as well. It's important to make sure customers are happy, and that they want to stay with DIRECTV when given a choice.

[tuff bob]

Exit...well...exit's the screen you're on. Pretty simple.

Back takes you back a screen (I never use it).

:lol:

[DodgerKing]

We still have an SD based Tivo in our bedroom. I find it very hard to use now that I've have an HR20.

+1

[DodgerKing]

The color buttons that are active ARE documented-right on the screen that you are viewing! (Except those when only regular TV is displayed but how hard is it to remember that blue brings up the mini-guide, etc.?)

I think the color buttons are a unique solution to "one button" functions without adding a zillion buttons to the remote or additional complex menus to negotiate.

And very nice feature when watching MLB EI (I just wished it worked on the HD channels though). Another thing I can do on my DVR and cannot do on my TiVO, the interactive features with EI.

[houskamp]

I don't think TiVo is the only thing keeping MPEG2HD alive... there are untold thousands of H10 receivers as well. It's important to make sure customers are happy, and that they want to stay with DIRECTV when given a choice.
My guess is even the H10 isn't keeping it alive.. It's just their schedule for moving things around on the sats and the channel agreements.. When they are ready with the sats and paperwork mpeg2 will just go byebye..

[tuff bob]

My guess is even the H10 isn't keeping it alive.. It's just their schedule for moving things around on the sats and the channel agreements.. When they are ready with the sats and paperwork mpeg2 will just go byebye..

or even getting the 3 LNB dishes upgraded to slimlines. I don't doubt that's a big part of it too. Every legacy HD customer needs a truck roll.

[bonscott87]

I don't think TiVo is the only thing keeping MPEG2HD alive... there are untold thousands of H10 receivers as well. It's important to make sure customers are happy, and that they want to stay with DIRECTV when given a choice.

Tivo has very little to do with it.

What has to do with it is cost of the swaps which DirecTV has talked about at length in the last few investor/financial calls. Basically they have been waiting for the costs of the HD DVR to come down enough to make wholesale swaps cheaper. That has now happened and thus we see the free swaps for people with the sports packages and LA DNS. If I'm DirecTV why spend more money then you need to? Let people upgrade on their own and/or wait for it to be cheaper to do it en mass.

The other is that the MDU (apartments/condo's) need more time to swap out equipment to support MPEG4. Thus why LA DNS is still on 101 until fall.

All this is coming to a head and the transition should be complete early next year I'd guess.

[clbw]

One could argue that DirecTV is slowing the transition by not providing an MPEG4 Tivo. My wife hates the HR20 in virtually every way. She won't let the Tivo in the bedroom go.

My wife is the same way. The last Tivo HD in my house is in the bedroom and is referred to as my wife's dvr.:lol:

[Steve]

There were no more loyal TiVo users than my wife and I. We got our first one in the fall of '99 and up until March of last year, had continuously used TiVo Series 1's, Sat-T60's, HDVR2's and HR10-250's exclusively.

When forced to move to HR20's to see my Yankees in HD prior to the start of last year's baseball season, I thought it was the end of the world, especially since my wife is non-technical and has great difficulty dealing with new technology. It's now over a year later, and neither of us can even remember what the TiVo menus looked like.

Is the HR2x platform perfect? No. Does it do everything we need it to do? Yes.

/steve

[DVRupgrade]

Well, after resisting and resisting, I finally got sick of not having the features my own customers preferred to have and have dropped DIRECTV in my home for a Series3 and RCN cable service.

The decision did not come lightly, but even though I'd already had the massive new dish installed on my house, an HR20 in my possession and the support from the wife to do anything I wanted, we knew that continuing with the HR10-250 was not going to be acceptable given the amount of HD content available on either the DIRECTV DVR and the Series3.

Ultimately, I hooked up two Series3 units and a Slingbox and I now have every feature I'd ever wanted (and all without hacking, other than putting in the larger hard drives): multi-room viewing, PC viewing, playback of Internet content and xvid, MP3 playback and lots of other cool goodies (most of which I'd never need).

We probably could have 'made due' with the HR20, but all of those additional goodies, and our preference for the TiVo UI ultimately made the difference for us.

Lou

[gregjones]

In case anyone missed the open disclaimer of the sarcasm involved in opening this thread:


Yes, I know there are tons of other factors. These include the HD locals, HD DNS, etc. I know the transition is underway, slowly. But I have seen far too many threads over the last few months espousing the enormous benefits of TiVo (I had two, they were great, I moved on) while ignoring the benefits of the new HD channels and the likelihood that there will never be another HD TiVo on DirecTV. So I thought I would apply the same irrational thinking I have seen in those posts.



I am amazed, though, at the number of folks waiting for DirecTV to have another TiVo box. There is absolutely no reason to believe there will ever be another TiVo for DirecTV.

[tuff bob]

We probably could have 'made due' with the HR20, but all of those additional goodies, and our preference for the TiVo UI ultimately made the difference for us.

I feel your pain Lou - I considered leaving DirecTV too over the Tivo issue but in the end Comcast not carrying the Big Ten Network pretty much sealed the deal. Also S3 cable tivos aren't cheap and was concerned about the SDV issue. The wife will run the HDVR2 into the ground ...

[tuff bob]

I am amazed, though, at the number of folks waiting for DirecTV to have another TiVo box. There is absolutely no reason to believe there will ever be another TiVo for DirecTV.

no one is necessarily "waiting for another Tivo box", but think the benefits of the Tivo box they currently have outweigh the desire to have MPEG4 HD.

[harsh]

Did the OP ever give any consideration to the fact that the tardy arrival and glacial pace of MFH2 deployments may be a much bigger reason that MPEG4 is taking so long?

[Tom Robertson]

Even tho this is a flaming satirical thread (interesting concept, actually) :)

One other part to the picture is a bottom line management of costs for transitioning receivers from MPEG2 to MPEP4. Yes, for a bunch of money upfront, this transition could be done. But by taking a sustained, organic and controlled approach DIRECTV doesn't have a sudden hit to the bottom line, installers are only slightly overloaded, and costs for the new receivers keep going down as time goes on.

As for my situation, I've removed all my SD receivers first. Yes, I still have two HR10-250s on my account because they are still the best SD receivers I own. :)

(And do OTA HD.)

Cheers,
Tom

[bonscott87]

multi-room viewing, PC viewing, playback of Internet content and xvid, MP3 playback and lots of other cool goodies (most of which I'd never need).


Of course all of that is available on the HR20/21 as well or is in current testing.

PC Viewing is possible right now, MRV the next step. It's in this current CE cycle and was demo's at CES over 5 months ago.

Playback of Internet content, xvid, MP3 and so forth have been available for a long time via the Media Share. I laughed on the Tivo forum when people were jumping for joy when Tivo announced that sometime this year you'll be able to watch You Tube videos and were putting down DirecTV because of it. Was kinda funny pointing out to them that I've been able to watch You Tube on my HR20 for over 6 months already. ;)

Hey, if all the "non DVR" stuff" is important to you then by all means go where you can get it. But do realize that the DirecTV DVRs have much of that too.

[tuff bob]

When I think of the HR20 UI I think of this:

http://www.cn-dos.net/msdos71/pic/dosinsu.png

same blue / yellow scheme

[tuff bob]

Exactly, they are all right there on screen. One only needs to *read*. ;)

pretty sure it doesn't say "press green" to switch tabs. I will check it out when I get home though.

edit: remotely accessing an H20

http://www.midml.com/~bob/info.jpg

[1948GG]

then you are perhaps happy with the HR2X. Last night I went over to the HR20 to watch House. No House recorded from Monday. No sign of the season pass or whatever the HR20 calls it. Mysteriously gone. I suspect I accidentally got rid of it by trying to record House and hit it enough times that the SP was gone. No warning of any kind from the HR20. :nono2:

For many months (I guess almost years now), I'm 'bemused' at all the threads on 'missed recordings'. A few basic things here:

First, I do consulting with several MDU companies, and I keep fairly accurate records as to how many folks have HR20 machines (both -700 and -100's) and there are over 1000 of them. Of 'late' (last 6 months or so) I've been the original 'buyer' of many of these (eBay's been VERY good to me!) as DirecTV ramps down production in lieu of the HR21's (VERY few of those in any system, OTA is important here as DirecTV has yet to retrans several local HD stations).

But, getting back to the 'blanks'; ZERO. ZERO. Something else is going on with your system, NOT the HR20's. We send out a monthly newsletter to all the subscribers, and continually ask those with the HR's to give us a call if they get any 'wackiness'. ZERO.

Note that this doesn't include anyone doing the CE releases (I don't believe we have anyone). These are 'regular folks'. I push my systems (3ea HR's, one -700 and two -100's) hard, and again never see any of the problems other report. But all the threads I see on 'searching for sat...' and the like, lets me believe that there are some major systemic problems with installations out there; we see them occasionally as folks are referred to us having given up on the local installation companies (like Ironwood).

I'd kinda love to see some set get 'wacky'... would give me something to sink my teeth into. Been a LONG time since I've really seem something that's bizzare.

FYI, I had an HR10-250 for a month many years ago. Got my money back. I didn't see the point then, and still don't. Overpriced, overly complex, etc. But that's my opinion. But the general marketplace I guess agrees with me, as it took TIVO many years to get ONE other program vendor to go with them (after DirecTV gave them the shove).

[tuff bob]

For many months (I guess almost years now), I'm 'bemused' at all the threads on 'missed recordings'..

I think I know what I did, but I have suffered from remote control debounce issue and I think it removed my House season pass (series link?) .. if you hit record via the guide it cycles through: record once, record series and no record. To be honest it was the first missed recording with the unit, but the way it happened was frustrating.

[bonscott87]

pretty sure it doesn't say "press green" to switch tabs. I will check it out when I get home though.

edit: remotely accessing an H20

http://www.midml.com/~bob/info.jpg

Maybe that one isn't hinted at in some of the system menus. I don't use green to do a tab anyway. I simply select it like I would on a PC or a Mac.

But look at pretty much any screen. ToDo list, My playlist, the guide, etc. There are hints for what the colored buttons do at the bottom. And they are now consistant across the entire UI (such as Yellow always brings up a list of options for the current screen you're on).

[dbronstein]

When I think of the HR20 UI I think of this:

...

same blue / yellow scheme

I think it's interesting how everyone has a different perspective on the various DVRs. To me, the comparison between the DTivo (I have a hughes DVR80 or whatever it's called, I've never used one of the HD ones) and the HR20 is the DTivo is like a 386 and the HR20 is like a pentium. The DTivo UI is nice, but it's ridiculously slow. The guide is barely usable and you might as well go out to lunch after you reorder shows in the prioritizer. The HR20 is just so much faster.

I also find it funny to see a Tivo fan complain the HR20 doesn't give enough guidance on what the colored buttons do on different screens. The Tivo doesn't even have a stop button - who would think to press the left arrow when they want to stop watching a recording?

I'm not saying the HR20 is perfect, because it's not. I'm just saying that everyone has a different opinion on these things and has different things that are important to them.

[inkahauts]

D11, costs of MPEG-4 hardware... And as Stuart said, there are a lot more MPEG-2 HD units out there than the Tivo. In fact, I'll bet the tivos are dwarfed by the number of other units. Stuart mentioned one other model, but in fact there are probably 10 or more models of boxes that have been around since Directv began broadcasting HD. Thats the only reason we still have MPEG-2 HD. And why on earth anyone would think this transition is moving slowly is beyond me. If its finished by the end of the year, that will mean Directv mad the switch in 1 year and 3 months. There was NO national HD until last September. They are on pace to have every station in MPEG-2 available in MPEG-4 within a couple months at most, and if they get everyone upgraded, including MDU's by august as some have suggested, it will be less than a year that they made the upgrades. Can you tell me what other company has changed a platform that quickly and rid themselves of an old technology? It took cell phone providers how many years to stop talking about analogue service in addition to digital after digital came out?

[vikingguy]

For many months (I guess almost years now), I'm 'bemused' at all the threads on 'missed recordings'. A few basic things here:

First, I do consulting with several MDU companies, and I keep fairly accurate records as to how many folks have HR20 machines (both -700 and -100's) and there are over 1000 of them. Of 'late' (last 6 months or so) I've been the original 'buyer' of many of these (eBay's been VERY good to me!) as DirecTV ramps down production in lieu of the HR21's (VERY few of those in any system, OTA is important here as DirecTV has yet to retrans several local HD stations).

But, getting back to the 'blanks'; ZERO. ZERO. Something else is going on with your system, NOT the HR20's. We send out a monthly newsletter to all the subscribers, and continually ask those with the HR's to give us a call if they get any 'wackiness'. ZERO.

Note that this doesn't include anyone doing the CE releases (I don't believe we have anyone). These are 'regular folks'. I push my systems (3ea HR's, one -700 and two -100's) hard, and again never see any of the problems other report. But all the threads I see on 'searching for sat...' and the like, lets me believe that there are some major systemic problems with installations out there; we see them occasionally as folks are referred to us having given up on the local installation companies (like Ironwood).

I'd kinda love to see some set get 'wacky'... would give me something to sink my teeth into. Been a LONG time since I've really seem something that's bizzare.

FYI, I had an HR10-250 for a month many years ago. Got my money back. I didn't see the point then, and still don't. Overpriced, overly complex, etc. But that's my opinion. But the general marketplace I guess agrees with me, as it took TIVO many years to get ONE other program vendor to go with them (after DirecTV gave them the shove).


Nothing is going on with my system. It is just a bad national release. I bet my blanks are gone next up date. It happens every few releases on either of my Hr20s. They push out so many updates things are going to be missed. That is why the hr10s are so damn rock solid there are no new releases to mess them up. I wish there was a way to decline these national releases. Unless it contains something like dlb or mrv I don't want it if my system is working just fine.

[jal]

I recently reactivated my Hr10-250. I sure did miss it. I really enjoy using it.

[cartrivision]

Other than MPEG4 satellite reception, I'd love to hear how the HR2X is "more clever" than a Tivo.


The first few things that come to mind.....

Overlaping recordings on the same channel (due to start/end time padding) don't tie up two tuners like they do with Tivo.

You never lose picture and sound while doing stuff in the menus on the HR20, as you often do with Tivo.

Built in RF remote support for the HR20.

Plug-and-play internal disk replacement on the HR20 that doesn't require special disk prep and software loading to make the disk usable like Tivo requires.

[ejjames]

I have an hr20 and tivo in the living room, another pair in the theater room. Like so many others, my wife prefers the tivo, and anything I can do to make my wife happy, I'm going to do!

The fact that she puts up with my habit makes me a very happy husband.

[TomF]

How many people are holding on to their HD TiVos?
I'm holding on to my HR10-250. Why not, it still works and after now having 3 HR2xs for as long as a year and a half, the HR10 still records more reliably than any of the HR2xs. It's the backup for the three HR2xs that I have when none of them can record some program for some unknown reason. Unfortunately, now I only get 2 out of the 5 local HD channels OTA that DirecTV provides, ABC and CBS, and I just lost NBCHD on 83 when they moved it to the other sat.
Are they comfortable with the fact that they are slowing the transition?
You're kidding, right? Do you think that DirecTV gives a rat's patooty whether I still have a HR10? Do you really think that by keeping my HR10 that I'm "slowing the transition"? Seriously.
What good is the "best HD DVR ever made" if it only has a handful of HD channels on it?
It still receives and records OTA reliably and for those of us that can get OTA (I've been receiving local OTA since May 2001) there's no lost functionality for recording local channels OTA. And for now, it still records all nine HD channels between 70 and 79. As far as being the "best HD DVR ever made", your quotes not mine. But putting things in historical perspective, TiVos were the best DVR ever made at the time. TiVo also had such brand name recognition among consumers that it even spawned the verb "to Tivo", meaning to record a program on one's DVR, regardless of the brand one actually owned.

I don't think that the HR2x will ever be any better than a TiVo until it can reliably and consistently record programs without locking up. All the other bells and whistles and the UI don't matter if it can't get the primary job done. I think they're great when they're actually doing their job, but when all three miss a recording, they're pieces of junk.

[1948GG]

Nothing is going on with my system. It is just a bad national release. I bet my blanks are gone next up date. It happens every few releases on either of my Hr20s.

Sorry, but I totally disagree. If you were right, everyone would have problems (like yours) and they don't. Those (like me) that monitor literally hundreds to thousands of the units would see problems, and I for one don't. I talk to other engineers all over the country, all the time. They don't see any problems like you describe, on systems they run, install, and maintain.

But, I will say one thing; why is it that ex-TIVO (or current TIVO) people seem to have a far higher failure rate than others?

When the HR20-700 first came out, I found a couple of users that, in the hacking community that TIVO fosters, decided to break into their new boxes in an attempt to do what they had been the 'thing to do' in that TIVO 'community'. They were read the riot act, and we managed to get them new/unbroken machines which are still working (and unbroken into) to this day.

So, every time I read yet another thread about how the HR2x is 'just pitiful next to my old TIVO' I have to remember that there are tons of other folks that have no particular problems, and wonder if those problems were caused by the poster doing what comes 'naturally' to the TIVO user, 'hack the box' mentality.

Maybe not, but those two folks remain in my mind.

[crashHD]

I am amazed, though, at the number of folks waiting for DirecTV to have another TiVo box. There is absolutely no reason to believe there will ever be another TiVo for DirecTV.

Same as gas, but I still hope it comes under $2 some day...:nono2:

[dbronstein]

Plug-and-play internal disk replacement on the HR20 that doesn't require special disk prep and software loading to make the disk usable like Tivo requires.

Not to mention the external hard drive support so even non-techies can just plug in a drive and have more disk space.

[tuff bob]

Not to mention the external hard drive support so even non-techies can just plug in a drive and have more disk space.

if you don't mind losing access to all previously recorded content :rolleyes:

[cartrivision]

if you don't mind losing access to all previously recorded content :rolleyes:

More accurately..... if you don't mind all previously recorded content not being accessable while using the external drive. :shrug:

[Jeremy W]

When I think of the HR20 UI I think of this:

same blue / yellow scheme
When I think of the Tivo UI, I think of this:

http://www.bradfitzpatrick.com/store/images/products/preview/ee004-cartoon-poop-clipart.jpg

And then I get angry, because I remember how slow and unintuitive that stinking pile of crap was.

[TomF]

When I think of the Tivo UI, I think of this:

http://www.bradfitzpatrick.com/store/images/products/preview/ee004-cartoon-poop-clipart.jpg

And then I get angry, because I remember how slow and unintuitive that stinking pile of crap was.
Funny, that's what I think when I hear about people getting the KOD bug and blank recordings, particularly when I got a blank recording that kept recording and didn't record the following program which was scheduled to record. Happened on both tuners at the same time, a total of four programs lost, and then the unit hung and became unresponsive and had to be RBRed. But the HR10 recorded all four.

[Mark Holtz]

Until I get a HDTV, I'll stick with my HDVR2 with 243 hours of record time. By then, perhaps 1TB DVRs will be available.

[dbronstein]

if you don't mind losing access to all previously recorded content :rolleyes:

So you're saying when you replace the hard drive on a Tivo that there is a way to access content on the old drive? That's pretty amazing that you can access data from a drive that is sitting on a shelf and not connected to anything :)

[DodgerKing]

if you don't mind losing access to all previously recorded content :rolleyes:

So what you are saying is that it is better to not have this option at all? :rolleyes:

[gregjones]

Did the OP ever give any consideration to the fact that the tardy arrival and glacial pace of MFH2 deployments may be a much bigger reason that MPEG4 is taking so long?

Keep in mind this was a flaming satirical thread. I was making an effort to make an absurd assumption (that TiVos are to blame) to show the absurdity of other assumptions (HR2x was a bad dream and we'll get new DirecTV HD TiVos any day now). The point of the satire is to point out a lack of perspective in some of the discussions.

Some users have compelling reasons to keep the HD TiVos. Some seem to view it more as waiting for another TiVo to arrive. Either way, it is not going to stop the MPEG2 to MPEG4 conversion plans. It is somewhat like calling and saying cancel to get to retention. Do that enough and they will do just that.

[gregjones]

Funny, that's what I think when I hear about people getting the KOD bug and blank recordings, particularly when I got a blank recording that kept recording and didn't record the following program which was scheduled to record. Happened on both tuners at the same time, a total of four programs lost, and then the unit hung and became unresponsive and had to be RBRed. But the HR10 recorded all four.

And wasn't that on a CE, Tom? That does come with the territory.

[JohnDG]

EXTREME FLAME WARNING

I see this question pop up frequently: Why do we have to wait for the MPEG2 stations to go MPEG4? There are a lot of reasons but we keep sidestepping around the most obvious contributing factor?

How many people are holding on to their HD TiVos? Are they comfortable with the fact that they are slowing the transition? What good is the "best HD DVR ever made" if it only has a handful of HD channels on it? Many of these believers have promised to leave the second that their HD TiVos are not supported. Will they keep that promise?

Just to confirm some other's comments:

1) I use the TiVo to backup the recordings that the HR21 misses. I average 2 blank recordings a week, that occur for no reason other than buggy software, over the last half year (signal levels are fine). This includes ALL national releases of the HR21 software, with no CEs. SD "Lost" is better than no "Lost" at all.

2) I use the TiVo to support ALL my Season Passes (not capped at 50). This way, I can drop drop/add Season Links on the HR21 as series finish and restart.

3) I use the TiVo to support all my Wishlists, which are populated in the ToDo list 10 days out, rather than one day out on the HR21. For this reason, I no longer use WLs on the HR21. I can also "display all WLs" once a week, thus scanning for programs without the need to specify a "auto record program" to see them.

4) I'm not "slowing the transition:" DTV has no plans to replace the SD TiVos any time soon. It would simply cost too much money to replace these receivers that can be supported by the Satellites at 101 for years to come. This includes the HR10. DTV can drop MPEG2 support for HD any time they want to.

Other than the obvious MPEG4 support, the HR21 has does have neat features:
* Conflicts reported in the ToDo list
* Displaying the program when working in menus
* DoD

So... until the HR21 stops the blank recordings, I'll keep backing up the recordings on the HR10, thus keeping my customer satisfaction with DTV high. I submit this is a good thing for DTV, not a problem.

jdg

[joed32]

So you're saying when you replace the hard drive on a Tivo that there is a way to access content on the old drive? That's pretty amazing that you can access data from a drive that is sitting on a shelf and not connected to anything :)

You have to remove the external drive, then you can access the internal drive again. It is never removed or disconnected. To go back you just reconnect the external drive.

[Tom Robertson]

Keep in mind this was a flaming satirical thread. I was making an effort to make an absurd assumption (that TiVos are to blame) to show the absurdity of other assumptions (HR2x was a bad dream and we'll get new DirecTV HD TiVos any day now). The point of the satire is to point out a lack of perspective in some of the discussions.

Some users have compelling reasons to keep the HD TiVos. Some seem to view it more as waiting for another TiVo to arrive. Either way, it is not going to stop the MPEG2 to MPEG4 conversion plans. It is somewhat like calling and saying cancel to get to retention. Do that enough and they will do just that.

gregjones, sometimes well started threads take on a life of their own. I am very happy to loan you my mylar line-tinfoil suit if you don't have one. :)

As moderator, our first suit is provided. We have to supply the spares. :)

I think the thing slowing down the MPEG2 to MPEG4 transition is all the rain in LA in January. No one knew what that was as the sky literally was falling... :)

Cheers,
Tom

[dbronstein]

You have to remove the external drive, then you can access the internal drive again. It is never removed or disconnected. To go back you just reconnect the external drive.

I know. I was replying to Tuff Bob who implied that it's bad to have this functionality. I was sarcastically pointing out that this functionality is much better than the upgrade options are for the Tivo, where you're only option is to replace the hard drive completely.

[tuff bob]

I know. I was replying to Tuff Bob who implied that it's bad to have this functionality..

I never said it was bad - I'm just pointing out there are limitations in the HR2X implementation. With hacking Tivo, you could add a 2nd HD and not lose access to previous recordings.

[TomF]

And wasn't that on a CE, Tom? That does come with the territory.
And that CE went national a few days later. A lot of people wondered about that one. People had reported new problems with that release, why wasn't another CE done to eliminate those problems before rolling it out as a NR?

I started with the CE program immediately upon receiving my HR20-700 in October 2006 because at that time, mine wouldn't work correctly and each CE was a desperate attempt to bring functionality and stability. So don't run the company line about "comes with the territory" because some people are desperate just to get theirs to work.

[gregjones]

And that CE went national a few days later. A lot of people wondered about that one. People had reported new problems with that release, why wasn't another CE done to eliminate those problems before rolling it out as a NR?

I started with the CE program immediately upon receiving my HR20-700 in October 2006 because at that time, mine wouldn't work correctly and each CE was a desperate attempt to bring functionality and stability. So don't run the company line about "comes with the territory" because some people are desperate just to get theirs to work.

And yet, I have not had mine miss a single recording since receiving it in August. No blanks, no missed recordings, no lock-ups. The company line happens to be appropriate when it is true.

[gregjones]

gregjones, sometimes well started threads take on a life of their own. I am very happy to loan you my mylar line-tinfoil suit if you don't have one. :)

Oh, have no fear. This level of heat doesn't even register until it gets much more intense.

I just find it funny that people fail to read the first post where it plainly states that TiVo is not the reason.

[CKNAV]

It really comes down to a simple choice. Which is more important: the content or the DVR used to show it to you.

Many of us have decided that the HR20 is a viable solution given the overwhelming benefits of the MPEG4 channels.

Some have decided they love their TiVo more than new channels.

Still fewer hold out hope that some day, DirecTV and TiVo will have a productive relationship again. From my perspective, I believe that bridge was burned years back. I expect no reconciliation and have moved on.


Tivo and D* will not do things together ever again for sure. That is why D* bought Replay TV which was even before Tivo and had even more features than Tivo. This way D* can basically put most of the features of Tivo and more, and not be taken to court.

[tuff bob]

Tivo and D* will not do things together ever again for sure.

while I accept it, what evidence is this based on?

[TomF]

And yet, I have not had mine miss a single recording since receiving it in August. No blanks, no missed recordings, no lock-ups. The company line happens to be appropriate when it is true.
And if it's always sunny where you live do you not believe that it rains elsewhere? This is the lamest possible comeback to people that truly do have problems with their HR2x. Just like some people that constantly did this back in the fall of 2006/winter of 2007. They couldn't believe that other people were having problems when their HR20 worked perfectly and telling those people it must be their fault. Doesn't prove a thing. :rolleyes:

[dbronstein]

I never said it was bad - I'm just pointing out there are limitations in the HR2X implementation. With hacking Tivo, you could add a 2nd HD and not lose access to previous recordings.

"Hacking" is the key word here. The HR2X has a supported feature to allow users to add a larger hard drive. Yes, there are limitations, but I'm sure most customers (not just the people who come here) much prefer being able to simply plug in an external drive instead of having to hack their box to get more disk space.

And if you install the external drive as soon as you get the DVR, losing access to the internal drive is a non-issue becuase nothing gets recorded to the internal drive to begin with.

[LameLefty]

They couldn't believe that other people were having problems when their HR20 worked perfectly and telling those people it must be their fault. Doesn't prove a thing. :rolleyes:

And for most of those, it WAS their fault - at least to the extent that there were marginal setups out there that created out-of-boundary conditions for those software versions that the HR20-700 was running back then. I lost a bare handful of recordings in one ill-fated software release around Thanksgiving 2006 (following the NFL Network's first HD broadcast on channel 90-something) - an RBR and the problem never recurred. The box was absolutely rock solid and has remained so to this day except for a few oddities testing CE versions (which is to be expected).

As luck would have it, I have good wiring, a good switch, good connectors, well-ventilated spaces for my components, stable power (a VERY underestimated source of a lot of problems!), and a well-aimed dish giving me mid-90's - 100's on all transponders in clear weather on all satellites. So those out-of-bounds conditions that bit so many early users didn't affect me.

As time progressed, many people fixed their internal infrastructure and the software tolerances and timings for a lot of things have gotten cleaned up. The HR2x series of receivers work well for many, many people, they provide a rich feature-set for Directv customers, and they do it faster and quicker than Tivo ever did in my experience (Tivo user from 2001 - 2007).

Sorry Tivo-lovers don't like it, but I just can't see Tivo ever being a serious part of Directv's DVR offerings again.

[gregjones]

And if it's always sunny where you live do you not believe that it rains elsewhere? This is the lamest possible comeback to people that truly do have problems with their HR2x. Just like some people that constantly did this back in the fall of 2006/winter of 2007. They couldn't believe that other people were having problems when their HR20 worked perfectly and telling those people it must be their fault. Doesn't prove a thing. :rolleyes:

It may have issues. My point is not that they do not exist, just that they are not as widespread as some would believe.

[gregjones]

In a fit of irony, TiVo sent me a special offer via email just moments ago.

[evan_s]

And if it's always sunny where you live do you not believe that it rains elsewhere? This is the lamest possible comeback to people that truly do have problems with their HR2x. Just like some people that constantly did this back in the fall of 2006/winter of 2007. They couldn't believe that other people were having problems when their HR20 worked perfectly and telling those people it must be their fault. Doesn't prove a thing. :rolleyes:

I find it rather ironic that you are doing exactly what you accuse everyone else of doing. Dismissing their experience off hand just because it doesn't match yours. I don't have any idea what you've done to try and resolve the issue but I have to expect that there is something about your setup that is some how contributing to these issues especially if you've got 3 different dvrs all missing the exact same recording.

Over all the number of people complaining about issues as severe as yours is pretty small when you consider that people are much more likely to complain than to post everything is fine. There was a recent thread that had lots of people posting their setup works just fine because that was the only question in the thread.

My personal experience is that I have only missed one recording that was on a channel I wasn't sure if I got anyway. I am a relatively new subscriber but I have put some heavy usage on my unit including filling up probably 70% of the drive during the recent Choice + preview weekend to evaluate if there actually was anything on those channels I felt was worth upgrading for.

[bonscott87]

With hacking Tivo, you could add a 2nd HD and not lose access to previous recordings.

Which of course 99.99% of users will never do.

With the HR20/21 any user with a quarter of a brain can go down to Best buy, get and external drive and plug it in. A HUGE difference.

[TomF]

And for most of those, it WAS their fault - at least to the extent that there were marginal setups out there that created out-of-boundary conditions for those software versions that the HR20-700 was running back then. I lost a bare handful of recordings in one ill-fated software release around Thanksgiving 2006 (following the NFL Network's first HD broadcast on channel 90-something) - an RBR and the problem never recurred. The box was absolutely rock solid and has remained so to this day except for a few oddities testing CE versions (which is to be expected).

As luck would have it, I have good wiring, a good switch, good connectors, well-ventilated spaces for my components, stable power (a VERY underestimated source of a lot of problems!), and a well-aimed dish giving me mid-90's - 100's on all transponders in clear weather on all satellites. So those out-of-bounds conditions that bit so many early users didn't affect me.

As time progressed, many people fixed their internal infrastructure and the software tolerances and timings for a lot of things have gotten cleaned up. The HR2x series of receivers work well for many, many people, they provide a rich feature-set for Directv customers, and they do it faster and quicker than Tivo ever did in my experience (Tivo user from 2001 - 2007).

Sorry Tivo-lovers don't like it, but I just can't see Tivo ever being a serious part of Directv's DVR offerings again.
How does my pointing out the reasons that I would keep my HR10 in a response to the OP's original question make me a "Tivo-lover"? How does that mean that I think TiVo will ever again be a part of DirecTV's plan?

My "internal infrastructure" is, and has been, just fine since day one. I ran all of my own RG6 wiring, given to me by the DirecTV installer, and every connection is done with compression fittings. All of my DVRs are on a UPS, eliminating power fluctuations as a possible cause. All of my DVRs are on open shelves with plenty of air space around them and have notebook coolers on them as well. In fact, my HR21 is sitting in the same place that my HR10 occupied and uses the same cables. That doesn't explain how, after months of being stable, all of my HR2xs failed to record several programs, while the HR10, using the same cables, connectors, junction points and sat, recorded those same programs just fine.

Your experience is your experience. My experience is that the HR10, sitting on the same shelves as my HR20-700 and my HR21-100, records the programs that those DVRs don't. Call yourself lucky or call me unlucky, I apparently have had more problems than you. Is my experience any less valid than yours? Is this because my problems are my fault?

For the record, my HR2xs have been the primary viewing source for well over a year. My HR10 is a backup device. I like most of the HR2x features, but there are some things that my HR10 can do that the HR2x can't, particularly dealing with searching and wishlists. The HR10 shows me much more information about a program, including all of the actors and the director(s). It allows me more than 50 Season Passes and an (apparently) unlimited number of Wishlists. I have many Wishlists on the HR10 that I've been unable to reproduce on the HR2x.

Does this make my HR10 "better"? No, it may not do some things that the HR2x can, but it also does things that the HR2x can't. I paid for it, it still works, so I still use it.

[cartrivision]

"Hacking" is the key word here. The HR2X has a supported feature to allow users to add a larger hard drive. Yes, there are limitations, but I'm sure most customers (not just the people who come here) much prefer being able to simply plug in an external drive instead of having to hack their box to get more disk space.

And if you install the external drive as soon as you get the DVR, losing access to the internal drive is a non-issue becuase nothing gets recorded to the internal drive to begin with.

If you want to hack, there are hacks that let you transfer your data from the original HR20 drive to a larger replacement drive, so I'd say that the HR20 wins in the disk expansion department.... an easy no-hack way to expand that anyone can do on their own, which still lets you choose the old drive at boot time to access the recordings on it, and a disk copy hack which lets you transfer all the recordings from the old disk to the new one. I'll take the HR20 options over the Tivo options any day.

[GutBomb]

I have had an HR20-100 since august 2007 and the only recordings i've ever missed were because of bad guide data. These problems would have happened on any DVR that bases it's recording on guide data. These both happened in the MLS Direct Kick package, and were mistakes. A game was scheduled for 6 PM but the day before the game it was rescheduled to 3 PM. Guide data wasn't updated until 1 PM the day of the game, but instead of moving the game from 6 to 3, they simply removed the 6 PM game from the guide and put a new game with a different name (usually the games are called "Colorado @ Kansas City" or "Rapids @ Wizards". The new entry was called "MLS Soccer" and the "episode" was "Rapids @ Wizards" making this a completely different event. I prefer not to use search-based recording (wishlists in tivo-land) because they end up recording tons of dupes that have slightly different guide data.

[tuff bob]

With the HR20/21 any user with a quarter of a brain can go down to Best buy, get and external drive and plug it in. A HUGE difference.

99.99% of people won't do that either, since its undocumented and unsupported by DirecTV.

[bonscott87]

99.99% of people won't do that either, since its undocumented and unsupported by DirecTV.

When DirecTV starts selling upgrade kits it will be.

[wilbur_the_goose]

Prediction - MPEG-2 HD will end soon after D* 11 lights up.

[scottchez]

As soon as they offer a $49.95 upgrade or better to the current HD DVR with NO EXTRA CONTRACT, I will turn in my HD Tivo.

On this WEEKS Earnings conference call they said it only cost them $200 to make the HD DVR, it cost my $1000 for my HD Tivo back then. WHy should I have to pay AND sign a contract to upgrade so they can make more money off of me?

The HD TIVO just does not get the local HD channels over the sat or all the extra HD channels like my other HD DVR does.

[Jeremy W]

The HD TIVO just does not get the local HD channels over the sat or all the extra HD channels like my other HD DVR does.
Yeah it's only missing like 100 channels, who cares? :rolleyes:

[scottchez]

In the earnings call this week DirecTV said when asked about Tivo that they are still talking but will only do something if if make sense

this is speak for nothing is going to happen till its dirt cheap in the contract. If Tivo does not lower there contract price we will never see any new tivo products.

[harsh]

If Tivo does not lower there contract price we will never see any new tivo products.Get used to it. The writing has been all over the wall since the R15 was hinted at three years ago.

[OverThereTooMuch]

Yeah it's only missing like 100 channels, who cares? :rolleyes:But it RELIABLY records what you tell it to. It all depends on what is more important to you.

[tuff bob]

Yeah it's only missing like 100 channels, who cares? :rolleyes:

correction: it's missing the HD version of those 100 channels, theres only 2-3 "new" HD channels I can think of that the HR10 misses out on right now (unless you have LA locals or West DNS service)

[tuff bob]

As soon as they offer a $49.95 upgrade or better to the current HD DVR with NO EXTRA CONTRACT, I will turn in my HD Tivo.

No way you get one without the 2 year contract extension.

[tuff bob]

When DirecTV starts selling upgrade kits it will be.

Have they announced any plans to do so?

[LameLefty]

correction: it's missing the HD version of those 100 channels, theres only 2-3 "new" HD channels I can think of that the HR10 misses out on right now (unless you have LA locals or West DNS service)

And all the HD content on those new "HD versions." It's also going to miss Sunday Ticket this year when it goes MPEG4, HD or not, plus (probably) all future sport-specific packages like that.

[Jeremy W]

But it RELIABLY records what you tell it to. It all depends on what is more important to you.
My HR20 has been just as reliable as my Tivo. They've both missed a small handful of recordings over their lifetime, and I consider that to be acceptable.
correction: it's missing the HD version of those 100 channels, theres only 2-3 "new" HD channels I can think of that the HR10 misses out on right now (unless you have LA locals or West DNS service)
Oh, well excuse me for assuming you bought that fancy new HDTV and HD DVR to actually record and watch stuff in HD. :rolleyes:

[tuff bob]

Oh, well excuse me for assuming you bought that fancy new HDTV and HD DVR to actually record and watch stuff in HD. :rolleyes:

excuse me while people evaluate if they prefer the HR10 over the new "HD" channels are either complete stretcho-vision (MTV/CBS College Sports) or 4:3 with plus sidebars (CNBC/FBN/ESPNews) :rolleyes:

I still havent figured out how to get the HR20 to put the SD version of the channel in the guide "after" the HD version, so i can watch a 4:3 channel without stretchovision

[Jeremy W]

excuse me while people evaluate if they prefer the HR10 over the new "HD" channels are either complete stretcho-vision (MTV/CBS College Sports) or 4:3 with plus sidebars (CNBC/FBN/ESPNews) :rolleyes:
First of all, MTV does not use stretch-o-vision, and ESPNEWS is not 4:3, it's 16:9. Second of all, you're describing a tiny minority of channels here. The majority of the HD channels do show HD content, and in most cases they show all of their most popular content in HD. Aside from some shows on Comedy Central, nothing I watch is in SD anymore.

Being a Tivo fanboy is one thing, but misrepresenting the HD channels because of it is something completely different. You've taken to outright lying now, so you might want to step back a bit and think through your next post before you make yourself look even more foolish.

[GutBomb]

First of all, MTV does not use stretch-o-vision, and ESPNEWS is not 4:3, it's 16:9. Second of all, you're describing a tiny minority of channels here. The majority of the HD channels do show HD content, and in most cases they show all of their most popular content in HD. Aside from some shows on Comedy Central, nothing I watch is in SD anymore.

Being a Tivo fanboy is one thing, but misrepresenting the HD channels because of it is something completely different. You've taken to outright lying now, so you might want to step back a bit and think through your next post before you make yourself look even more foolish.
I think that post pretty much exemplifies why it's called "tivo religion".

[tuff bob]

You've taken to outright lying now, so you might want to step back a bit and think through your next post before you make yourself look even more foolish.

please. there are many HD channels that an HR10 can't receive are sad excuses for HD channels. I might have been mistaken about stetchovision on MTV, but I HATE the strecto-vision on A&E, HGTV. CBS College Sports and Food Network which is the vast majority of their content. And there are "HD" channels that don't show ANY HD. I'm pretty sure MTV is a classic example of this.

You may also want to step back before you make claims about "outright lying" too. I think thats uncalled for here. :nono2:

I can see that there are people that can't accept that hr HR20 is not an obvious and immediate replacement to the HR10. As much as I like the extra HD I get from the HR2X, its a sorry excuse as DirecTV's premium hardware platform. I'm no means a Tivo fanboy - I just see my wife's point that there is little in HD she wants to watch outside of what an HR10 currently gets and she doesn't want to give up the extra functionality that the HR10 offers for that.

Can you possibly accept that is possible? or you going to stick with the line of "HR2X receivers are 'good enough'" ?

[gregjones]

excuse me while people evaluate if they prefer the HR10 over the new "HD" channels are either complete stretcho-vision (MTV/CBS College Sports) or 4:3 with plus sidebars (CNBC/FBN/ESPNews) :rolleyes:

I still havent figured out how to get the HR20 to put the SD version of the channel in the guide "after" the HD version, so i can watch a 4:3 channel without stretchovision

We all hate what CBS College Sports is doing to their picture. That is nobody's fault but theirs. I am sorry you don't like the channel that you don't get on the DVR you prefer.


You probably have "Suppress SD Simulcast Channels" turned on in your options. That would show you both.

[Tom Robertson]

I think the "flaming satire" has turned too much into senseless flaming. So, time to shut this down.

In the future, please remember to be polite to each other so we don't have to close threads.

Thanks,
Tom