What is included in a standard installation?

[raungst]

I'm planning on getting one SD and one HD receiver when I sign up for DirecTV. Before that happens, I'm trying to make sure I have some clue about whats going to happen when the installer comes.

Each receiver would be located on an interior wall. Theres already an existing cable connection at the desired spot. Would an installer just run the cable and use the existing plate, or install a completely new plate? Would this be included in the standard "free" installation? If not, whats a rough estimate for how much something like that would cost?

Whats the typical way that the cables are run from the dish into the house? Are they run in one location and then dispersed, or run along the outside of the house and then punched into each room? My one hesitance with getting DirecTV is stories on here about really messy installations. I want the cable connections to be where they currently are, and I don't really want unsightly cables running around the outside of the house. Is this a possible reality? Is it really just "you get what you pay for"?

[litzdog911]

Best bet is to contact the installation company ahead of time and discuss your specific requirements. Some of the things you want will probably cost extra.

Here's what DirecTV has to say about "standard installation" ....
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/customer/faqPage.jsp?assetId=1100115#category9

You'll receive a professional installation from a highly trained installer, who will properly mount, align and peak your dish on your roof, balcony or other location within 100 feet of your TV. The installer will only use DIRECTV-approved materials, including RG 6 cable, switches and connectors, and will connect your receiver(s) to your TV and DVR, VCR or DVD player. The installer will also connect your receiver(s) to a phone line in your home and will ground your system to meet local/NEC requirements.

You'll also be shown how easy it is to use your system and the DIRECTV service.

[raungst]

Thanks for the reply. Its interesting that it doesn't say anything about how they will connect them, or if they will just run cable across the floor to the TV.

[RegGeek]

As already suggested, calling Directv to get the number for the local contractor and talking to them in advance is a good idea.

The standard install is really bare bones. It includes running the lines around the exterior of your house and in through the wall into the room with service. Since that isn't going to work for you, be prepared to either run lines yourself or pay for it to be done.

If the existing cable is good they should be able to reuse that. If they need to replace, hopefully it will be easy to use existing wire to quickly pull the new line through. However, any fishing is subject to an additional charge. Depending on how easy/hard and the mood of the installer/policies of the employer will dictacte whether there's a charge and how much.

You mention two receivers. Keep in mind that if either is a DVR you will need two lines to have full two-tuner functionality. Also another twist is if you require an off air antenna line. For example, I have an HD DVR with OTA so I have three lines to the box.

Good luck!

[joe diamond]

They leave the area intentionally vague. It is called specification creep. Techs are just asked to do additional stuff for the same price. Recorders need two lines so who pays for the second line? The Ka/Ku dish is bigger that earlier models and requires a $500.00 meter to tune. Sometimes the dish has to go on a steel pole so who pays for the steel pole and concrete? The list goes on; travel distance, material prices, phone lines OTA antennas, all have costs and a value but somehow techs are asked to work on them for the F word.

Best to ask the installer what he plans to do for free.

Joe

[BattleZone]

As others have mentioned, a free install means either reusing your existing lines (if they are suitable; old RG59 coax isn't good enough, it must be RG6 and be in good condition) or running lines on the outside of the house and through the outside wall. In *some* cases (i.e., if it is very easy to do), a tech may be willing to run cables through the attic and drill through the ceiling, or through the crawlspace and drill through the floor, for free.

Wall-fishes (running cables down the inside of the wall) are custom work, and generally $60-75 and up per outlet, depending on the complexity. Usually, exterior walls are insulated and can't be wallfished.

And, again, DVRs have TWO tuners, and need 2 cables from the dish/switch to the DVR for the sat signal.

Remember that the tech gets paid for a very basic installation that is programmed for a couple of hours, max. Beyond that, you will be paying him, which is pretty reasonable, IMO. You DO get what you pay for, always.

[kevinm34232]

OK for you other installers subs out there, I'd like to know what you do in the real world, as these grey areas are really annoying...

1) The HSP says we can charge for wall fishes, but the first one should be free. Anything after that is subject to charge. A typical Ka/Ku install with one DVR could mean we have to run 75' feet of cable, crawl thru the attic, fish it down the wall to a dual wall plate, all for free. To make it worse, it could also be an upgrade.

2) I was always told I can charge $75 for a pole mount, now Im hearing DTV says a Ka/Ku pole mount install or upgrade should be free.

Are you guys hearing the same thing here, is there actually a written policy on this anywhere? I suspect not.

[BattleZone]

Your HSP is full of it; or rather, they are pushing costs on to you that DirecTV says you aren't responsible for, because it makes them more money and helps keep their completion rate up.

DirecTV has always allowed charging for wall fishes, even the first one, because they recognize that it is custom work.

They also allow charging for pole mounts, except for when there is no way to get LOS on the building itself. Trenching more than 10' is still chargable. And the HSP is supposed to pay you for those "no-LOS" pole mounts.

The bottom line is that the HSPs fleece DirecTV on one side and their employee/contractors on the other. They use many illegal labor practices and there are several class-action suits against them. They ALWAYS settle, because they stand no chance in court, and don't want their practices to be made public. It's cheaper to pay off the lawsuits and keep doing it.

If you continue to work in the HSP system, you can DEPEND on being screwed and scammed. I know contractors that have losts tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars to the HSPs, and several dozen techs that will never get paid for the last month's worth of work (many from several different contractors) because the HSPs didn't pay the contractors and bankrupted them.

It's the same story everywhere. And the sad part is that DirecTV pays the HSP very, very well (far more than you would believe) for each job you go to. There's more than enough money to pay you what you (or the contractor you work for) what you deserve, but they know that they can get away with making you do tons of work for free and then add on a bunch of undocumented and unsubstantiated chargebacks. And what are you gonna do but take it? They keep most installers/contractors so poor that they don't have money to fight, but those few who take the time and have the guts to do so get PAID. Be one of those people.

[dlb2868]

OK for you other installers subs out there, I'd like to know what you do in the real world, as these grey areas are really annoying...

1) The HSP says we can charge for wall fishes, but the first one should be free. Anything after that is subject to charge. A typical Ka/Ku install with one DVR could mean we have to run 75' feet of cable, crawl thru the attic, fish it down the wall to a dual wall plate, all for free. To make it worse, it could also be an upgrade.

2) I was always told I can charge $75 for a pole mount, now Im hearing DTV says a Ka/Ku pole mount install or upgrade should be free.

Are you guys hearing the same thing here, is there actually a written policy on this anywhere? I suspect not.

There is actually a "custom charges" form that your supervisor should have given you. If you dont have one let me know and I will be happy to email you a copy. The customer can use their credit/debit card or check by phone to pay. I have done this several times, and NO I never saw a dime of it. Directv has their own inhouse techs that they supply cable, poles, connectors, GAS, and anything else the techs need. They get paid a little less than we do as subcontractors, but still, they make out like bandits.
Beware though...I had a pole that I had removed from a previous customers home. Another customer wanted locals and need a basic dish installed. I told her I would let her have the pole for $10.00. She was furious that I wanted to charge her for a pole. Well, she called directv and told them, they called me and asked why I was going to charge her for a pole. This was a service call(tech did not put up second dish for locals). I did not sell her the pole, and I cancelled the workorder because it was not a service call, it was an upgrade. I got a chargeback. NOW IT GETS GOOD...customer called me day before yesterday complaining that Directv charged her $75.00 for the pole that the other tech brought and put up for her....HAHAHA...I told her I have nothing to do with the billing, she will need to call DTV and complain to them. So, yes DTV charges $75 for a pole mount, but the tech that buys the pole and uses his/her cable and time will NEVER see a dime out of it.

[RobertE]

There is actually a "custom charges" form that your supervisor should have given you. If you dont have one let me know and I will be happy to email you a copy. The customer can use their credit/debit card or check by phone to pay. I have done this several times, and NO I never saw a dime of it. Directv has their own inhouse techs that they supply cable, poles, connectors, GAS, and anything else the techs need. They get paid a little less than we do as subcontractors, but still, they make out like bandits.
Beware though...I had a pole that I had removed from a previous customers home. Another customer wanted locals and need a basic dish installed. I told her I would let her have the pole for $10.00. She was furious that I wanted to charge her for a pole. Well, she called directv and told them, they called me and asked why I was going to charge her for a pole. This was a service call(tech did not put up second dish for locals). I did not sell her the pole, and I cancelled the workorder because it was not a service call, it was an upgrade. I got a chargeback. NOW IT GETS GOOD...customer called me day before yesterday complaining that Directv charged her $75.00 for the pole that the other tech brought and put up for her....HAHAHA...I told her I have nothing to do with the billing, she will need to call DTV and complain to them. So, yes DTV charges $75 for a pole mount, but the tech that buys the pole and uses his/her cable and time will NEVER see a dime out of it.

Sounds like your getting hosed.

I get 75% of whatever I charge for custom work, if it goes through the company. 100% if it goes straight through me. ;)

[joe diamond]

I won't work for any of the HSPs. And I ask specifically from where the work is coming. I have really seen enough of this crap. I get enough work by word of mouth just fixing the installations. If there was ever any money in DTV installations those days are gone.

Joe

[chdoud]

I won't work for any of the HSPs. And I ask specifically from where the work is coming. I have really seen enough of this crap. I get enough work by word of mouth just fixing the installations. If there was ever any money in DTV installations those days are gone.

Joe

I was suppose to have an HD upgrade done last week from our NE WI HSP Premier. They over booked the poor tech so badly I never saw him. Still do not have the upgrade done. On the second attempt the tech called at 7PM and told me he had 2 more installs before he got to my place needless to say he never got here.

They had this tech scheduled for 8 installs, 4 HD upgrades and 4 full new installs. Not sure what is going on but that is crazy. And this is a rural area. IMHO this system/process is broke.

[BattleZone]

I was suppose to have an HD upgrade done last week from our NE WI HSP Premier. They over booked the poor tech so badly I never saw him. Still do not have the upgrade done. On the second attempt the tech called at 7PM and told me he had 2 more installs before he got to my place needless to say he never got here.

They had this tech scheduled for 8 installs, 4 HD upgrades and 4 full new installs. Not sure what is going on but that is crazy. And this is a rural area. IMHO this system/process is broke.

This is how it works: the HSPs are contractually required to have enough techs to take a given load of work, but they are so stingy and so poorly managed that they can't keep techs. Any good tech leaves because they can see that they're getting screwed bigtime, leaving mostly people who can't find other work and the brand-new trainees who haven't yet figured out what they're getting in to.

But, the HSP is never going to admit that they can't keep up with the work load, because then DirecTV would want to bring in an AFS (alternate fulfillment source; another big contractor) who would get a big chunk of the best work. And the HSP is unwilling to improve the pay and working conditions for the techs. So, they simply LIE to DirecTV. They (illegally) report all of their subcontractors as in-house employees and (illegally) run background checks and otherwise treat them as employees, BUT don't report them as employees financially, which would require them to insure the techs, pay for their supplies, and pay taxes. They also continue to report "phantom" techs that were fired or moved on to artificially increase their tech count.

DirecTV, seeing a proper tech count, sends the HSP the work, but of course, the HSP doesn't really have enough techs, so the answer is to overload everyone. An HD upgrade in most cases is going to take a MINIMUM of 2 hours, and can easily take 6 or more hours. That's just ONE UPGRADE. Your tech was routed FOUR upgrades AND FOUR installs. That's enough work for 2-3 techs. But, instead, the tech will work from 7:30am until past 9pm, and MAYBE get 4 jobs in. He may also get charged back for one or more of the jobs he couldn't get to, if he can't prove that he attempted to contact the customer. And he will be required to work like this at least 6 days a week.

Is the system broken? It's MILES beyond broken.

[harsh]

Rules of thumb:

1. Interior walls are generally not included as it typically involves "fishing". You may be able to get them to go through the floor or ceiling for free if access isn't too difficult.
2. At least two cables are required and it is best that the cables have as few couplings as practical.
3. Installers appreciate direction, but they don't like to be told how to do their job.