No show on HD upgrade

[chdoud]

Not sure where to go next with my HD upgrade dilema. I was scheduled for this past Mon (8-12am). At 8pm techs supervisor called asking if tech had been to my place, as he has not heard from him. With that he reschedlued me for Wed (8-12am).

Wed comes and at 7pm tech calls and says he only has two more installs (1 HD upgrade, and 1 new non-HD install with 4 DVRs), but he would be to my place after those 2. Needless to he never got here. by the way the tech had 8 installs that day..... Something wrong with this picture in my mind, especially a rural area....

The HSP is Premier so the Premier CSR reschedules me for Thu (8-12am), but fails to tell me it might not happen since they really did not have room for me. Thu comes and when I call in the morning, 9am, they say no tech available. But the CSR now reschedules me for Fri AM again does not talk to local supervisor to see if they have someone available. So Fri comes and they do not have tech available for our area.

Now I have another install set for May 22 but I do not have much confidence in it happening even though the local supervisor said they had time slot open.... We live in a rural area, NE WI and not many techs available.

Through all of this the Directv CSRs have been as helpful as they could have and have provided significant credits to my account. I have been a customer for 12 years and have never requested or received and freebys. Never felt I needed any incentives to remain a customer and don't plan on leaving now. I went through the CSR route to get upgrade since it was a free installation and had a sucessful mover connection 3 years ago when I moved to my current address. But now figure I should have purchased a slimline and HR21 and done the install myself. But the free install enticed me in.

If Premier does not come through next week I believe I am going to see if Directv will cancel the install, have them send me a HD DVR (I know I will probably get a refurbished unit) and then order a slimline to install myself. I would go a purchase the HR21 from a dealer but I have been billed for the unit and don't really trust getting all of the credits if I purchase one from a retailor....

I am a retired IT professional, built my own home completely, build my own PCs and have installed my dish before so I am handly enough to do this install

Any suggestions.?????

[spartanstew]

Sounds like a plan.

[chdoud]

well on 5/22 a tech finally shows up to add HD service. He explains that he and his partner are staying in the area because the previous installers for the area have either quit or been fired.

They do not have a HD DVR, but they do install the slimline, WB68 and run all of the cabling. Then will come back when the DVRs are availble now scheduled for 5/28. They do seem like they know what they are doing.

I am not real happy with the cable runs but I can change that when I have time. I have a log home and the dish had to be installed on the other side of the home from my old dish since LOS to 119 would be a problem. So the runs are some 50' and the tech compleained about how much cable he was using and that is not part of the free install. I think he was blowing off steam since he has been listing to alot complaints. The workorder did have 4 news lines going in and my understanding is that up to 125' for each run was part of the install.

Since I do not have a HD receiver yet I could only view the 101, 110 & 119 signal strengths and they are mostlye in the mid to high 90s. The tech did not want me to look at the signals and said they were OK because they used a meter to set the dish. Since I still need the DVR I did not complain. When they come back with the DVR I will make sure 103 & 99 are near the mid 90s.

Anything else I should I need review with them??

[joe diamond]

I am surprised things got this far without a HD receiver & TV on site.
Also.......as you might have noticed.....an "upgrade" can mean a complete rebuild. Consider a contractor who is offered $85 +$15 + $15 +$15 =$130 and the job requires one 500ft /$80.00 box of cable. You can't tell if they quit or were fired but......many tech are gone.

Joe

[texasbrit]

well on 5/22 a tech finally shows up to add HD service. He explains that he and his partner are staying in the area because the previous installers for the area have either quit or been fired.

They do not have a HD DVR, but they do install the slimline, WB68 and run all of the cabling. Then will come back when the DVRs are availble now scheduled for 5/28. They do seem like they know what they are doing.

I am not real happy with the cable runs but I can change that when I have time. I have a log home and the dish had to be installed on the other side of the home from my old dish since LOS to 119 would be a problem. So the runs are some 50' and the tech compleained about how much cable he was using and that is not part of the free install. I think he was blowing off steam since he has been listing to alot complaints. The workorder did have 4 news lines going in and my understanding is that up to 125' for each run was part of the install.

Since I do not have a HD receiver yet I could only view the 101, 110 & 119 signal strengths and they are mostlye in the mid to high 90s. The tech did not want me to look at the signals and said they were OK because they used a meter to set the dish. Since I still need the DVR I did not complain. When they come back with the DVR I will make sure 103 & 99 are near the mid 90s.

Anything else I should I need review with them??

99(s) and 103(s) carry only spotbeamed locals and so the signal strengths are basically not relevant (there will be lots of low numbers and even zero), unless you happen to know which transponder is carrying your HD locals. You need to check 103(c) and all the available transponders should be in the high 80s/90s for a correctly aligned slimline dish.

[Mertzen]

Also.......as you might have noticed.....an "upgrade" can mean a complete rebuild. Consider a contractor who is offered $85 +$15 + $15 +$15 =$130 and the job requires one 500ft /$80.00 box of cable.
Joe

Well that guy need someone else to buy his wire from :lol: $20 is a regular price here.

[tcusta00]

Well that guy need someone else to buy his wire from :lol: $20 is a regular price here.

Yeah, I was kinda thinking that myself...

$40 at Monoprice for 1000 ft. (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10216&cs_id=1021604&p_id=2963&seq=1&format=2)

And that's retail... I'm sure installers get some kinda wholesale deal too. :sure:

[BattleZone]

Well that guy need someone else to buy his wire from :lol: $20 is a regular price here.

Nice try. DirecTV requires 3GHz-rated SOLID COPPER RG6. Copper-clad steel is not allowed. Also, don't forget shipping and tax...

[tcusta00]

Nice try. DirecTV requires 3GHz-rated SOLID COPPER RG6. Copper-clad steel is not allowed. Also, don't forget shipping and tax...

Sorry, that's $45 per 500 feet. Shipped. No Tax. And again, that's retail, not the wholesale prices an installer would be able to get, and I seriously doubt that an installer would be paying shipping. Certainly not the $80 exaggeration mentioned above. Nice try.

[BattleZone]

Sorry, that's $45 per 500 feet. Shipped. No Tax. And again, that's retail, not the wholesale prices an installer would be able to get, and I seriously doubt that an installer would be paying shipping. Certainly not the $80 exaggeration mentioned above. Nice try.

Right.

Now, run FOUR lines 50 feet from the dish to the multiswitch, and then EIGHT lines 50 feet from the switch to 4 DVRs. That's a common install these days.

That's 600' feet of cable right there. Even at your prices, that's, what, $60? That's more than half of what most independent contractors are paid for the job, and that does't account for any other materials, gas, wear on tools, or anything else.

Cable costs have gone up by 75% from two years ago, gas is triple, far, far more DVRs are being installed, requiring dual lines, but pay has gone DOWN.

There is a REASON why so many installation appointments are missed: there just aren't that many people willing to work all day for peanuts, only to face chargebacks, damage claims, and bogus complaints.

Example: one of my techs was reported as stealing a customer's iPod, despite it being left on the opposite end of the room from where he was working, and another service person (plumber) being in the house at the same time. The customer filed a police report and was trying to charge us for a better iPod model than she had, plus the music on it! And, we had no real recourse than to pay.

Except that, just before we were going to pay this woman $600 so we could keep working, it came out that her daughter took the iPod to school and got it taken away. It was the police that told us; the customer didn't even appologize for calling my tech a thief.

This is a hard industry to survive in.

[tcusta00]

Look, I've got nothing against installers, and I think everyone should be paid a fair wage for their work, no matter the industry. But every time I see one of these threads about missed/bad installs (and they pop up quite often) it always comes to this: the installers are underpaid and overworked. Further, it makes it seem (although I know it's probably not your intent) that the OP's complaint is unwarranted. He was just looking for some advice about his install and how to best get it done. More often than not it turns into one of these "our employer doesn't pay us enough" threads, as it has today.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, just trying to make a point that there's a time and a place for everything and these threads always seem to get hijacked into installer oppression stories. We all understand that you guys are underpaid and overworked and that's probably what's led to the degradation of quality in the industry, but the OP wasn't looking for a discussion of fair wage, he's looking to get his installation done.

[chdoud]

Look, I've got nothing against installers, and I think everyone should be paid a fair wage for their work, no matter the industry. But every time I see one of these threads about missed/bad installs (and they pop up quite often) it always comes to this: the installers are underpaid and overworked. Further, it makes it seem (although I know it's probably not your intent) that the OP's complaint is unwarranted. He was just looking for some advice about his install and how to best get it done. More often than not it turns into one of these "our employer doesn't pay us enough" threads, as it has today.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, just trying to make a point that there's a time and a place for everything and these threads always seem to get hijacked into installer oppression stories. We all understand that you guys are underpaid and overworked and that's probably what's led to the degradation of quality in the industry, but the OP wasn't looking for a discussion of fair wage, he's looking to get his installation done.

Thanks... Well I got a surprise yesterday. The techs showed up with my HR21-200. They were in the area and got the DVR setup, I was suppose to wait until next Wed.

I checked the signals and they all look pretty good. The spots on 99s and 103s are the only really low ones. All of the rest are in the 90-100 so the dish is alligned pretty well. The tech had a signal meter and it only took him a few minutes to allign.

I was happy with the inal outcome and had gotten some money from the ATM to give the techs a tip when he started yelling about having to run all of that cable again. And I mean yelling and I did not give the tip... At this point I wish I had but he did put set me back....

[chdoud]

I am now confused about what is included in an HD upgrade:

I had no LOS from the old location of the dish so it had to be moved. I carefully explained this when I called about the upgrade and the CSR (rentention guy) said that was no problem and was included in the free install.......


Is that correct??? Or is it not. You get so many different answers from the CSRs that I am not really clear now.

[TigersFanJJ]

I am now confused about what is included in an HD upgrade:

I had no LOS from the old location of the dish so it had to be moved. I carefully explained this when I called about the upgrade and the CSR (rentention guy) said that was no problem and was included in the free install.......


Is that correct??? Or is it not. You get so many different answers from the CSRs that I am not really clear now.

It sucks to have to run all of that cable for upgrade pay, but it is included when there are LOS issues.

[TigersFanJJ]

Sorry, that's $45 per 500 feet. Shipped. No Tax. And again, that's retail, not the wholesale prices an installer would be able to get, and I seriously doubt that an installer would be paying shipping. Certainly not the $80 exaggeration mentioned above. Nice try.

Wholesale prices aren't all that great when it comes to cable. I get mine for about $65/shipped for 1000 ft of solid copper single and $75/shipped for 500 ft of solid copper dual with messenger (what Joe was probably talking about). Not much of an exaggeration if you ask me.

The only thing that was really exaggerated was the pay that was quoted. $85/15 is way more than what most techs get paid for new installs. Upgrade pay for many techs is less than half of the quoted $85 price. Quite a few have posted here that they get about 25% of what was quoted.

I'm glad the OP was able to finally get his upgrade completed. However, hopefully this thread will change the minds of those that always like to scream "find a new job" anytime a technician voices concern about their pay. When you have a lot of techs leaving to find a new job, you will have many more customers like the OP that get strung along with missed appointments and reschedules. It is lose/lose for everyone involved.

[tcusta00]

] When you have a lot of techs leaving to find a new job, you will have many more customers like the OP that get strung along with missed appointments and reschedules. It is lose/lose for everyone involved.

I realize that, but I'm sure you'd agree that complaining anonymously on some forum in a thread where a guy is looking for help sure ain't gonna change things. :sure: :)

[DishCSR]

I am now confused about what is included in an HD upgrade:

I had no LOS from the old location of the dish so it had to be moved. I carefully explained this when I called about the upgrade and the CSR (rentention guy) said that was no problem and was included in the free install.......


Is that correct??? Or is it not. You get so many different answers from the CSRs that I am not really clear now.

that is not correct, a free standard install only includes mounting the dish in the existing location,(or moving it within 10 ft of existing location) it never includes relocating the dish that far. Sadly most csr's don't know this, just because a csr is a retention csr, does not mean they are more knowlegeable , it simply means they have more of a credit limit to "retain" you, tech csr's also don't know squat about installs, sad but true, The csr's that post on here are the exception not the rule, the only way I know as much as I do about tech issues (and installs and service calls are tech issues) is because of my Dish training , certainly not because of my dtv training, and of course this forum.

I had a lot of training on work orders and installation(what's included and what's not, ) at Dish, and although the companies are different, the installation is essentially the same, even the software program used for installs,/upgrades/service calls, used to be the same , until dtv decided to start using the same software program that they use for account management for the installs/service calls/upgrades, and when this same system starts being used to place orders look out...if you think your work orders are screwed up now, just wait.

[TigersFanJJ]

I realize that, but I'm sure you'd agree that complaining anonymously on some forum in a thread where a guy is looking for help sure ain't gonna change things. :sure: :)

Oh yeah, I agree. I should have been more clear that the last paragraph wasn't directed at you. :goodjob:

[joe diamond]

Sorry, that's $45 per 500 feet. Shipped. No Tax. And again, that's retail, not the wholesale prices an installer would be able to get, and I seriously doubt that an installer would be paying shipping. Certainly not the $80 exaggeration mentioned above. Nice try.

Maybe $80.00 is high but close. I tried looking up a recent price.....'call for current pricing"

Dual copper rg6 with ground prices are all over the place as are installation offers. Include the shipping and ......recently.......add 1/3 for collection.......lawyers want 1/3 to collect unpaid invoices.

IF installer will not work for HSPs installers pay shipping.
This is an installation site and I think customers should know that installers either work for spit, or pay for their materials.

One way to eliminate complaints is the fire the complainers, close the eyes and move on.

Joe

[tcusta00]

Maybe $80.00 is high but close. I tried looking up a recent price.....'call for current pricing"

Dual copper rg6 with ground prices are all over the place as are installation offers. Include the shipping and ......recently.......add 1/3 for collection.......lawyers want 1/3 to collect unpaid invoices.

IF installer will not work for HSPs installers pay shipping.
This is an installation site and I think customers should know that installers either work for spit, or pay for their materials.

One way to eliminate complaints is the fire the complainers, close the eyes and move on.

Joe

You certainly choose where, when and how vocally you want to complain, I'm just trying to make the point that these threads always get horribly derailed and the OP probably feels bad for complaining, which is how I would feel if I were him, and that's not fair.

This isn't an installation site, this is a dbs site. Customers and installers alike are all welcome here, so let's try to make the customers with issues feel a little more helped and welcome.

[chdoud]

that is not correct, a free standard install only includes mounting the dish in the existing location,(or moving it within 10 ft of existing location) it never includes relocating the dish that far. Sadly most csr's don't know this, just because a csr is a retention csr, does not mean they are more knowlegeable , it simply means they have more of a credit limit to "retain" you, tech csr's also don't know squat about installs, sad but true, The csr's that post on here are the exception not the rule, the only way I know as much as I do about tech issues (and installs and service calls are tech issues) is because of my Dish training , certainly not because of my dtv training, and of course this forum.


The problem is, as a customer our primary contact is the CSR. I explained the LOS issue to him and asked if it was part of the install. He said it was part of the free install. So who should we believe. I feel for the techs, but we as customers get so many different answers and we hear so many horror stories about poor installs and getting taken advantage of by some unscupulus techs (I know those are a very small percentage).

So what is the solution????

[chdoud]

When I started this process (HD upgrade) I tried to clarify just what was included. I was an IT professional for 30+ years and learned to ask questions about not only what is the standard but more importantly what are the exceptions. That is why I made sure I told the CSR exactly what the situation was at my home and I felt he understood what I was telling him and I know what he told me.

Since as customers we are given so many different answers, D* should publish what is included in each type of standard install and make that available to the customer. That would help alleviate questiions from both parties. The generic work order availble to us is worthless and only says there will an install.

[BattleZone]

The problem is, as a customer our primary contact is the CSR. I explained the LOS issue to him and asked if it was part of the install. He said it was part of the free install. So who should we believe. I feel for the techs, but we as customers get so many different answers and we hear so many horror stories about poor installs and getting taken advantage of by some unscupulus techs (I know those are a very small percentage).

So what is the solution????

The solution would be for DirecTV to write some REAL rules, and a pay scale that matches those rules. But so far, they won't do this. They make everything very vague, imply that virtually everything is free, and pressure the HSPs to "get it in no matter what." The HSPs (who get paid PLENTY that they could easily afford to pay a tech RIGHT to do these tough jobs, but won't) create rules and penalties that force the techs to do these jobs for free in many cases, forcing them to lose money, to PAY to install a difficult system, with the other option being to not be routed anymore (i.e., fired without being fired).

This is what leads to techs charging $150 for a $20 HDMI cable, or $200 for a $50 undereave mount, or worse. Once a tech figures out that he can't survive on what he's being paid vs. what he's required to do, many techs adopt the attitude of "well, SOMEONE is gonna pay!" So the customer who, by all rights, should be paying custom work for a non-standard install gets away with a free install, and the next nice-but-ignorant customer gets ripped off.

Anyway, I appologize for the thread hijack; I just get tired of customers blaming the installers and not the system, when nine times out of ten, the installer is doing his very best in a very unreasonable situation.

[DishCSR]

The problem is, as a customer our primary contact is the CSR. I explained the LOS issue to him and asked if it was part of the install. He said it was part of the free install. So who should we believe. I feel for the techs, but we as customers get so many different answers and we hear so many horror stories about poor installs and getting taken advantage of by some unscupulus techs (I know those are a very small percentage).

So what is the solution????

Well on a brand new install, if there is a los issue, then what's supposed to be included is a pole mount, but an upgrade is different since the dish is already there, the csr was probably going with info for a new install/los issue. The only solution lies with dtv correctly training csr's on installs/upgrades, sadly this is not currently the case. The info csrs rely on in the knowledge base is very confusing and unclear on installs/upgrades, there's also a mis-communication on what the csr is supposed to tell the customer and what the install companies actually comply with.

[chdoud]

The solution would be for DirecTV to write some REAL rules, and a pay scale that matches those rules. But so far, they won't do this. They make everything very vague, imply that virtually everything is free, and pressure the HSPs to "get it in no matter what." The HSPs (who get paid PLENTY that they could easily afford to pay a tech RIGHT to do these tough jobs, but won't) create rules and penalties that force the techs to do these jobs for free in many cases, forcing them to lose money, to PAY to install a difficult system, with the other option being to not be routed anymore (i.e., fired without being fired).

This is what leads to techs charging $150 for a $20 HDMI cable, or $200 for a $50 undereave mount, or worse. Once a tech figures out that he can't survive on what he's being paid vs. what he's required to do, many techs adopt the attitude of "well, SOMEONE is gonna pay!" So the customer who, by all rights, should be paying custom work for a non-standard install gets away with a free install, and the next nice-but-ignorant customer gets ripped off.

Anyway, I appologize for the thread hijack; I just get tired of customers blaming the installers and not the system, when nine times out of ten, the installer is doing his very best in a very unreasonable situation.


I agree with you and I believe I stated that in my first or second post. The process is broke and D* does not seem to want to fix it.

Heck I am retired and I thought about going to the only local D* installer (a local home entertainment specialist) and have them do my install. But I do live on a fixed income and while I have the money to pay for the install, D* said they would do it for FREE. And when I discussed it with the CSR he did say it would be free.