Still slim hope for DirecTV at my condo, install ideas?

[PaulieORF]

I had been looking into getting DirecTV at my condo a few weeks ago, only to have those hopes dashed by my homeowners association (through the condo management company) saying they will only allow Dish Network dishse to be mounted onto the buildings by this particular installer from halfway across the state (Connecticut, so it's not that far away :). Also since I simply just have a railing with no exterior balcony, the OTARD rules do not protect me as a dish mounted to my railing would hang over shared common property, and also it's stated in the bylaws that nothing shall be attached to the railings. I was able to get a signal from my old round dish on 101 through my sliding glass door, but that's with the door and screen open, when closed my 99 signal reading went to zero. Hopes were dashed!

But on Friday evening as I was walking my dog around the complex, I noticed a dish with a DirecTV logo on it in back of one of the townhouse buildings. So I walked over to it to get a better look. This install certainly looked home-made, as in it was a pole that was stuck in the ground with the dish mounted on top. The pole was pretty crooked, certainly not level. So I have to assume this person had to do some playing around with the dish in order to get his signals. By the way it was an old 3 LNB dish.

Now, I had seen this dish before while driving through the complex but just never bothered to look at the DirecTV logo on it. I must have just chalked it up as being a Dish Network dish that for whatever reason the installers couldn't put on the roof on the building. So this dish is in the back of one of the buildings, but is definitely in plain view. Surely the homeowners association knows about this, I would assume.

So now my hope for getting DirecTV is revnewed. Since this person has DirecTV on the property, and simply just has a pole stuck in the ground in common property, surely the HOA would approve of me doing some sort of ground mount. I've checked out the view of the sky from the side and corner of my building and it certainly looks like I'd have clear shot at all five of the DirecTV satellites, even from ground level.

So I have decided to investigate all the various installation setups I can come up with, and then present them to the HOA in hopes of them approving at least one of them for me. I'm ruling out the cement filled hole with a pole in it, as I know they won't go for that. But I've so far come up with these ideas...


Bucket or container filled with sand, with pole in it
Bucket with concrete, with pole in it
BUOY base dish mount (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SBUOY)
Very small 3' tripod
Downspout mount (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=DS-MOUNT)


Now you see, unlke the other person who has the DirecTV dish on a pole in the ground, if I were to install a dish it would be on the side-to-front corner of my building, thus in clearer view, so I think they may be concerned about how it looks. They may consider a bucket with a dish sticking out to be dumpy looking, or consider a tripod to look trashy.

The one that seemed to look best to me was the downspout mount, but the description says it only supports dishes of up to 18 lbs, while the Slimline weighs in at about 25 lbs, I believe. Then I would have to go into adding extra support, etc. Plus the whole conecept doesn't seem very solid to me.

My next favorite idea is the BUOY base mount, which you fill with water to weigh it down. But the damn thing has been discontinued according to Solid Signal. Does anyone know of any similar product that's still available?

So anyway, I've really come here looking for additional suggestions if anyone h as anyway. The main thing here that I'm looking for is installs that will look good (or as good as a dish mount can look). If anyone else here was in a similar situation and got their HOA to approve a particular type of install, I would love to hear about what you ended up doing.

Thanks everyone.

[carl6]

Because of the size, weight, and wind load of the 5-LNB dish, you won't get away with most of the mounts you are considering. You need a heavy duty tripod.

You might have some recourse to a permanently mounted dish if you check the OTARD rules. I do not know, but maybe you have some leverage because they are permitting one type of dish you might be able to pursue the DirecTV dish. Consider using the installation company they specify (although that would probably be an additional cost for you).

Carl

[PaulieORF]

Because of the size, weight, and wind load of the 5-LNB dish, you won't get away with most of the mounts you are considering. You need a heavy duty tripod.

You might have some recourse to a permanently mounted dish if you check the OTARD rules. I do not know, but maybe you have some leverage because they are permitting one type of dish you might be able to pursue the DirecTV dish. Consider using the installation company they specify (although that would probably be an additional cost for you).

Carl

I can certainly understand the downspout idea not working out, but are you saying a bucket with a pole and cement wouldn't work also?

As far as OTARD goes, I have no leverage whatsoever. And as far as them allowing only Dish Network through this particular installer: The HOA signed an agreement with this partiular installer, who only installs Dish. What they do is the install up to two dish setups per building, depending on how many people in a building want to subscribe to dish. There is zero chance of them ever letting me get a dish on the roof. The thing that sucks is I've heard that the head of the HOA was duped by this installation company, in that the guy from the company told him years ago that Dish was going to be buying DirecTV, and so the fact that it was exclusive to them wouldn't matter anyway. I can't believe he bought into that crap.

But anyway my basis here is that someone else on the premesis has a DirecTV dish monted on a pole in the ground on common property, so I should be able to have similar done.

[Mertzen]

If you can mount it low to the ground a hole filled with concrete is OK for a 5LNB.

[davring]

I would be surprised if the HOA can legally bind you to a given installer or brand of dish.

[BattleZone]

I would be surprised if the HOA can legally bind you to a given installer or brand of dish.

They absolutely can, because the OP has no "exclusive use" area (patio/balcony) that would be protected by OTARD. If he HAD a balcony or patio with line-of-site, then he could have whatever dishes he wanted as long as they were within his exclusive area and under 1 meter in size.

Also, while I hope for the best, I seriously doubt the OP is going to get permission to mount the dish in the community area. The ONLY way it would work is on a pole cemented into the ground (none of those other solutions are workable with the big, heavy HD dish), and I don't see that happening. I could be wrong, though...

[davring]

They absolutely can, because the OP has no "exclusive use" area (patio/balcony) that would be protected by OTARD. If he HAD a balcony or patio with line-of-site, then he could have whatever dishes he wanted as long as they were within his exclusive area and under 1 meter in size.

Also, while I hope for the best, I seriously doubt the OP is going to get permission to mount the dish in the community area. The ONLY way it would work is on a pole cemented into the ground (none of those other solutions are workable with the big, heavy HD dish), and I don't see that happening. I could be wrong, though...

No "exclusive use" areas, depressing. I wish him all the luck as wll.

[TimG517]

Not sure what OTARD is (or if those are the correct lettes).
The FCC has a bunch of rules for this kind of thing.

I had to fight with my complex about them.

I used a whiskey barrell with 300lbs of cement inside and a 5 foot pole with dish. There are probably still pictures on here with that set up.

They came back 6 months later said they didn't like. So I put the dish in the ground with cement - again a 5 ft pole. That works great.

But, the FCC thing says that you have every right to receive tv signal through satellite. I would check that out. it's on the FCC site.

[Reggie3]

Here are some links that may help:

http://nreionline.com/ar/real_estate_fcc_issues_new/

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

[gwar28]

I have mine installed on my balcony railing.

4 - 2x4s (8 inches long) bolted together with the rail in between.

It is very sturdy. If you need pics I can email them to you.

Completely non permanent.

[PaulieORF]

Thanks guys. I just seriously doubt they'd let me pour cement into the ground. Their attitude towards me is this, "Hey we already offer Dish Network to you, so why would you want DirecTV?" They will also likely use that reasoning when possibly considering a proposed ground install of DirecTV. They'll probably thnk that pooring cement in the ground is not worth it just to give one resident a choice in satellite provider.

If they shoot down the cement in the ground idea, I'm going to confront them abou the other DirecTV dish that's on a pole in the ground.

[tuff bob]

What are the chances you could get the "exclusive installer" to install a DirecTV dish? Cash makes the world go round you know ;)

[PaulieORF]

What are the chances you could get the "exclusive installer" to install a DirecTV dish? Cash makes the world go round you know ;)

Hmmm.... Interesting. Perhaps before I approach the HOA with any sort of dish install ideas, I should contact the installer and proposition them. If they say they'll do it, then I'm sure that would reassure the HOA knowing it's the same guys that do all the other installs in the complex.

BTW, what a horrible thing to do, signing an exclusive agreement for Dish. I did a little research on the install company they have the agreement with, and they haven't even been in existance for 3 years! My buddy who also lives in the complext talked to the head of the HOA, he admitted to him that he was duped by the company. The rep for the installer company told the head of HOA that Dish was in the process of BUYING DirecTV, so that the exclusively Dish thing wouldn't matter soon anyway. What a goon, a goon who's help I'm going to need if I want to get DirecTV!

[PaulieORF]

I just talked to another friend who lives here, and he actually was told in an HOA meeting that they will allow for us to get DirecTV, provided we get the dish installed low to the ground. So what I actually plan on doing is just approacing the HOA for signed permission to get DirecTV installed, and then find out what their conditions are. This almost sounds too good to be true, but we'll see.

Another quick question. Will a DirecTV installer do a ground install? If so, would I have to provide a tripid, or would they provide it?

[inkahauts]

No complex can force you to choose a specific provider for telecom or video any more. The FCC put a stop to that in the last 9 months.... Saying that you can only use one specific installer that only installs dish will not fly with the FCC.

[PaulieORF]

No complex can force you to choose a specific provider for telecom or video any more. The FCC put a stop to that in the last 9 months.... Saying that you can only use one specific installer that only installs dish will not fly with the FCC.

In light of the recent info I got from a friend, it sounds like I will have a choice, only that I'll have to get the DirecTV dish mounted on the ground (I don't care where it is as long as I get my DirecTV).

P.S. Hope to see you in the Finals! (Celtics fan here)

[RobertE]

While not a lawyer, just having the Dish dishes on "common" ground sets a precedent in my book. In one of the OTARD links, there should be some contact info to get to people that their whole purpose is to deal with HOAs. Give them a shout. THEY will know what to do and how.

Here's a link to SBCA and their OTARD group.

http://www.sbca.com/otard/default.asp

[inkahauts]

P.S. Hope to see you in the Finals! (Celtics fan here)

Unfortunately I can no longer offer you assistance/guidance/info until after we win the championship in 6 games..... :D

[carl6]

This thread has some information that may be relavant to your sitaution.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=128891

Carl

[ajc68]

The rep for the installer company told the head of HOA that Dish was in the process of BUYING DirecTV, so that the exclusively Dish thing wouldn't matter soon anyway.

D* had a deal in place to purchase E* and the government blocked it saying it would be a monopoly. Now that technology has expanded to other sources, including the Internet, things are changing. The government just allowed Sirius and XM to merge, so don't be surprised if D* and E* revisit the idea of a merger again at some point.

Btw, I was going to make the same suggestion about seeing if the exclusive installer could do a D* setup for you.

[PaulieORF]

They actually do allow you to choose Cox for cable, whcih I currently use. The exclusive agreement with Dish and that particular installer seems to be their exclusive right to attach dishes to the buildings. Now that it's Monday, I should be getting more details on if it's really true that I can just mount a DirecTV dish low to the ground. Like I said above, another friend in the same complex told me yesterday that in an HOA meeting last year the head of the HOA told a man who asked that he can get DirecTV if he mounts the dish low to the ground. That person didn't have line of sight from the ground, so he didn't get DirecTV. I on the other hand am fairly confident that I do have LOS even from right on the ground. I'll let you guys know what happens.

[evan_s]

No complex can force you to choose a specific provider for telecom or video any more. The FCC put a stop to that in the last 9 months.... Saying that you can only use one specific installer that only installs dish will not fly with the FCC.

This whole thing is a little complicated with several different regulations related to it. The OP isn't limited to a specific provider so the recent FCC regulations related to exclusive contracts wouldn't apply. He can choose between Cox and Dish via the complex provided roof mounted dishes.

The OP also doesn't have any suitable exclusive access area which would be covered under OTARD. OTARD does not guarantee the ability to receive OTA HD or Sat signal it just says that they can't prevent you from using an area that exclusively yours for it. For common areas like root, walls, or courtyard or shared backyard you have no rights at all and are limited to what ever the complex wants to allow. If they want to setup a shared system using roof mounted dishes for just one provider they are perfectly able to and fully with in their legal rights.

It sounds like the OP may now be able to do a simple ground mounted dish for DirecTv service because the complex allows that but if they didn't he would have been SOL with no legal right to anything else.

[harsh]

D* had a deal in place to purchase E* and the government blocked it saying it would be a monopoly.Au contraire!

Echostar had a deal in place to buy DIRECTV. In case you hadn't noticed, DIRECTV goes through a protracted substantial ownership change every couple years lately.

[PaulieORF]

This whole thing is a little complicated with several different regulations related to it. The OP isn't limited to a specific provider so the recent FCC regulations related to exclusive contracts wouldn't apply. He can choose between Cox and Dish via the complex provided roof mounted dishes.

The OP also doesn't have any suitable exclusive access area which would be covered under OTARD. OTARD does not guarantee the ability to receive OTA HD or Sat signal it just says that they can't prevent you from using an area that exclusively yours for it. For common areas like root, walls, or courtyard or shared backyard you have no rights at all and are limited to what ever the complex wants to allow. If they want to setup a shared system using roof mounted dishes for just one provider they are perfectly able to and fully with in their legal rights.

It sounds like the OP may now be able to do a simple ground mounted dish for DirecTv service because the complex allows that but if they didn't he would have been SOL with no legal right to anything else.

Thank you. What you said here is all 100% correct.

I actually just got off the phone with the president of the HOA. He said that what they allow is a dish to be installed in the back of buildings, on pole mounts. The trouble here is that all the cabling and access into my unit is on the outside corner of the building (it's L shaped, I've attached a birds eye from Google Maps). The view of the southern sky is actually better from the back of the building (inside of the L), but again I'd have to figure out how to get the cables into my condo, and have the board approve it. I suppose it's possible to rn the cabling over the roof and to the other side, but I'm not sure if the HOA would be thrilled with that idea.

In the photo I've attached, I am in the top floor end unit (heel of the "L"). Access to the inside of my condo is from the outside of the heel, where they'll allow me to put a dish is on the inside of the heel.

Would it be possible to get an installer to come out to look at my scenario and come up with ideas on how to run the cable?

[Mertzen]

I work for a dealer here in NYC but go up to springfield, MA quite often. If you can't find another dealer we can work something out for a site survey.

[PaulieORF]

I work for a dealer here in NYC but go up to springfield, MA quite often. If you can't find another dealer we can work something out for a site survey.

How much do you (or most other dealers) tend to charge for a site survey?

[tuff bob]

How much do you (or most other dealers) tend to charge for a site survey?

It's beginning to sound like it'd be cheaper for you to try the "cash is king" route with the exclusive installer now ;)

[Mertzen]

PM me so we can discuss and I can get info to use on dishpointer.

[PaulieORF]

It's beginning to sound like it'd be cheaper for you to try the "cash is king" route with the exclusive installer now ;)

Well the contracted installer is just one guy, so that actually makes it more likely he'd do something for me. This may be possible, and if he does the work it may make the HOA feel better about any weird cable work that may need to be done.

BTW, has anyone here ever done or heard of a situation where a Dish insatller installed a DirecTV dish, or the other way around?

[Incog-Neato]

That is not true. The new regulations don't apply to PCO (priivate cable operators) or DBS satellite providers at this time.

No complex can force you to choose a specific provider for telecom or video any more. The FCC put a stop to that in the last 9 months.... Saying that you can only use one specific installer that only installs dish will not fly with the FCC.

[carl6]

Well the contracted installer is just one guy, so that actually makes it more likely he'd do something for me. This may be possible, and if he does the work it may make the HOA feel better about any weird cable work that may need to be done.

BTW, has anyone here ever done or heard of a situation where a Dish insatller installed a DirecTV dish, or the other way around?

It is very common for an installer to do both DirecTV and Dish Network work. The particular person you would be dealing with may or may not be willing to do so, but it can't hurt to ask.

If that person is not locked to Dish Network, and the HOA isn't locked to Dish Network, this might be an opportunity for the installer to do additional DirecTV installs.

If that particular installer is unwilling to do the DirecTV installation, then you can contact local high-end video stores/home theater installers and find a resource that way.

Carl

[Mertzen]

Yeah from what we can see on dishpointer you might have a hard time in case of a ground level install. But it is always hard to see from that perspective.

[PaulieORF]

Here are some photos from different possible ground install locations...

This is a shot from the back of the building where they'd like me to put the dish. I can tell you for certain that the building you see on the right is in the way
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p124/paulhallaway/PIC-0060.jpg

This is the view from where I'd ideally like to have the dish installed. It's on the corner of the building, which is the same corner as my condo (3rd floor), and also where the cable access for my unit is located
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p124/paulhallaway/PIC-0058.jpg

This is a shot of an area on the front of the building where they have the gas lines. It is hidden away though, and would make a nice hiding place for a dish. But like I said it's where the gas lines go into the building, so I doubt they'd even cosider letting me put a dish there.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p124/paulhallaway/PIC-0063.jpg

And this is the view I get when standing right in front of the gas lines pictured above. A 100% completely clear view of the southern sky, guaranteed to get me all 5 satellites with a great signal
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p124/paulhallaway/PIC-0064.jpg

[PaulieORF]

Just a little update here. I emailed the exclusive installer this morning, simply asking if he also does DirecTV installs. He just emailed me back and said sure. I told him that I'm in my condo complex, so now I anxiously await his response!

[Mertzen]

Yeah it'd be great if you can put it at that last position. But might be hard to get permission for a pole install there.

[PaulieORF]

Okay so the (Dish Network) installer talked to HOA's president today and it seems everything is good. He has taken my order for DirecTV, and should be scheduling an install date with me soon. :) So far this has gone much better and at a faster pace than I thought it would have. Hopefully everything works out!

[PaulieORF]

So here's the deal. The Dish Network installer that is contracted through the condo's HOA just came and ran all the cabling and dipliexed in my Cox cable for internet. He just ook off, his job here is done. I'm now awaiting his associate who does DirecTV installs to come and install the dish. Here's the best part of this whole thing. There was an unused Dish Network dish installed on the roof of my building, so the Dish Network guy took it down, and said that they're just going to replace it with the DirecTV dish! So I don't have to worry about any kind of ground mount, poles, tripods, or cement! Woohoo, I'm one lucky SOB. So now I'm anxiously awaiting the DirecTV guy's arrival. I'll let you guys know when everything is up and running.