Dish alignment using the dither method vs peaking of 103c

[Orangegrower]

I have been reading threads about dish alignment for a while now. All the videos that I have watched along with the written instructions for the slimline dish use the dither method. It seems to me that it would be much simpler to just peak the 103c ku satellite after you get close and after adjusting the tilt for the 119. Am I missing something here or am I all wet?

[carl6]

The instructions were written before there were any Ka signal to peak with.

The best answer now is to do the alignment using 101 and 119, then dither, then peak 103c. Many people skip the dithering step and get just as good a result, basically what you suggest.

Carl

[K4SMX]

That's the way I do it. I don't dither. The videos are very useful for understanding how the fine adjustment mechanisms are constructed, however. BTW, 99/103 satellites are Ka satellites.

[evan_s]

Yeah I had the same question. The directions given are based on the assumption that you can't just peak the KA sats directly for what ever reason. Even with 103 active now some? most? of the meters can't work on the KA signals. The process of finding the same signal level on 2 sides of the peak of 101 is designed to get you more accurately aimed at 101 so that 99 and 103 are well aimed. If you have a meter that can read 99/103 directly like using a HD receiver you should get just as good results just peaking 99/103 directly. You do need to get 101 at least close to peaked first because it's going to be very hard to find 99/103 if you aren't already close.

[K4SMX]

That's for sure! :)

[narcorngr]

I see people talking about a 103c sat. I only see 103 a and 103b. Is something wrong with my set up ?

[Michael D'Angelo]

I see people talking about a 103c sat. I only see 103 a and 103b. Is something wrong with my set up ?

No, you must have an H20 or H21. Their software has not be updated to change it to "s" and "c".

The HR20 and HR21 was the same way before.

"s" = "a" and "c" = "b"

[narcorngr]

Thats it. Thanks much..

[houskamp]

just out of curiosity is there a "center" sat? that is one that is unaffected by tilt?

[RobertE]

just out of curiosity is there a "center" sat? that is one that is unaffected by tilt?

101 on the slimline
110 on the phase three

[carl6]

"s" = "a" and "c" = "b"

That's sort of true. "s" = spot and "c" = CONUS, whereas "a" and "b" referred to specific satellites. DirecTV started mixing spot and CONUS beams between the two satellites in the 103 orbital slot, which means that even though your receiver might show a particular transponder as being on the "b" satellite it was really on the "a" satellite (or vice-versa). They then decided to re-designate the transponder screens to show a table for spot beams, and a table for conus beams, and labelled them "s" and "c". However not all receivers have been updated with the labelling change. Once D11 becomes operational in the 99 orbital slot, that will also be true for 99 ("s" and "c" won't necessarily equal "a" and "b").

So when you are looking at 103a or 103b or 103s or 103c (however your particular receiver labels them), you are actually seeing a mix of transponders from the "a" and "b" satellites at that orbital position, as opposed to all of the active transponders from a specific satellite.

Carl

[David MacLeod]

when using the receiver as the tuning guide is it best to use the display that shows all xponders or do it 1 by 1? I expect the full display is better but wanted to verify.
I did a quick aim and hit in the 90's but I did not do any fine tuning. I figured I'd give dithering a try just to learn about it.

[houskamp]

when using the receiver as the tuning guide is it best to use the display that shows all xponders or do it 1 by 1? I expect the full display is better but wanted to verify.
I did a quick aim and hit in the 90's but I did not do any fine tuning. I figured I'd give dithering a try just to learn about it.
I always pick a single transponder.. It updates way faster that the matrix display..

[hdtvfan0001]

I always pick a single transponder.. It updates way faster that the matrix display..
Agreed. Even many installers use this technique most often.

[David MacLeod]

ok, I will try that way. any particular one best to use? thanks guys.

[Herdfan]

The instructions were written before there were any Ka signal to peak with.

Plus it allowed the installers with Ku only meters to do installs without having to buy a new meter.

My meter does do Ka, but not very well. I got 90's using the Ku dither method.

[K4SMX]

ok, I will try that way. any particular one best to use? thanks guys.
You'll find that because of the non-linear signal strength measuring algorithm used, using a weaker Ka tp provides a more sensitive indication of small adjustments, but it's really not a big deal.

[David MacLeod]

You'll find that because of the non-linear signal strength measuring algorithm used, using a weaker Ka tp provides a more sensitive indication of small adjustments, but it's really not a big deal.
ok, thanks Stew.
I'm bored today so I might play around with it.

[joe diamond]

ok, I will try that way. any particular one best to use? thanks guys.

Dave,
I use #23...........there was a time when it was listed as "common" to the 101,110 & 119 meaning if you tuned that one all others would be there.

Anyone else have a more recent suggestion?

I just peak the 101..make the mast plumb & set the published setting accurately for el & tilt. Then swing in the line of the az until you peak the signal. Give a little push west and check the 103 c. Check all the channels. I get 90s this way and refused to buy a Birdog (pretty good meter) for $500.00 until more money
was offered.

I did note that the training video on the dither stuff was done on a non pen roof mount on the ground on a sunny day. Try screwing around with those dither things in the dark, on a ladder with wind and snow. Idiots!

The more you play with the system the less important your protection plan will be.

Joe

[RobertE]

Dave,
I use #23...........there was a time when it was listed as "common" to the 101,110 & 119 meaning if you tuned that one all others would be there.

Anyone else have a more recent suggestion?

I just peak the 101..make the mast plumb & set the published setting accurately for el & tilt. Then swing in the line of the az until you peak the signal. Give a little push west and check the 103 c. Check all the channels. I get 90s this way and refused to buy a Birdog (pretty good meter) for $500.00 until more money
was offered.

I did note that the training video on the dither stuff was done on a non pen roof mount on the ground on a sunny day. Try screwing around with those dither things in the dark, on a ladder with wind and snow. Idiots!

The more you play with the system the less important your protection plan will be.

Joe

Don't you just love those videos? Like you said, show me how to do it at the top of the ladder in bad weather (the job gotta go in). Anyone can tune a dish sitting on the ground in a wide open parking lot.

[David MacLeod]

lol, I never saw the videos but maybe I will now. I'll try 23, weather has been extremely unsettled this week so I've held off for now.
I don't have the PP, thought about it but it isn't needed for me really. + the only local installer isn't allowed on my property so that complicates things too..
hopefully next week will have stable weather so I can mess around with it. I get mostly 90+ for signals so its not needed, I just want to try it for experience.

[K4SMX]

You sound like a prime candidate for a Slingbox. Then you can take a laptop out to your dish, pull up the 103(c) Signal Meters, and "twirl the knobs" to your heart's content.....

[carl6]

You sound like a prime candidate for a Slingbox. Then you can take a laptop out to your dish, pull up the 103(c) Signal Meters, and "twirl the knobs" to your heart's content.....

I've done that a couple of times, but the delay involved always messes me up.

Carl

[David MacLeod]

the way mines mounted in relationship to the primary viewed dvr the wife can just talk loud and I'll hear it.
however, I might be able to use aiming as an excuse to get a slingbox :)
might look into that and see if I can swing it past her :)
after telling her I NEED to tweak it 3 or 4 times she might get tired enough of it to let it go ...

[joe diamond]

the way mines mounted in relationship to the primary viewed dvr the wife can just talk loud and I'll hear it.
however, I might be able to use aiming as an excuse to get a slingbox :)
might look into that and see if I can swing it past her :)
after telling her I NEED to tweak it 3 or 4 times she might get tired enough of it to let it go ...
Dave,

This technique is known as "Twist and Shout" but was replaced by just turning up the volume on the signal meter.

Even though you are showing great potential anf grasping the fundamentals of your installation .........don't take your guns to town OR even thing about becoming an installer. DTV installation is an expensive hobby.

Joe

[K4SMX]

I've done that a couple of times, but the delay involved always messes me up.

Carl
Yeah, it's the same problem the guys in Colorado have when they make adjustments to DirecTV's satellites. :)

[David MacLeod]

Dave,

This technique is known as "Twist and Shout" but was replaced by just turning up the volume on the signal meter.

Even though you are showing great potential anf grasping the fundamentals of your installation .........don't take your guns to town OR even thing about becoming an installer. DTV installation is an expensive hobby.

Joe

lol, never going to happen :)
I'll try the volume thing, might make the better half happier :)
its easier on me if I understand. the only local installer can't work on my setup due to ex-subcontractor issue and some other "things". so I have to fix it myself.

[joe diamond]

IF I can find just one honest, competent installer I will not destroy the city!

The city is toast!

Joe

[MONSTERMAN]

I've never liked those alignment videos, they tend to just confuse people and make it seem harder than it actually is. The SLIMLINE manual is even more confusing for the average DIYer, with the dithering instructions.:confused:

Definitely, the easiest and best way is of course using the SAT 103°(c) and peaking (EL, AZ) signals through all transponders on the signal display. This method has always peaked all my other sats as well.

[K4SMX]

I would tend to agree with that, except that I worry about first-time people not understanding how the fine adjustment mechanisms are designed and constructed on initial examination. Because the dish mounts are so much improved over the previous ones, I have yet to see a dish fail to acquire the 101 simply by rotating to the proper magnetic AZ once it's pre-set to the correct EL and tilt and then slid on ("clunk") to a properly plumbed 2" mast . It would be nice if the written instructions cautioned about assembling the back plate with the 3 tilt bolts pointing out, since nearly everyone seems to do that backwards the first time around. :)

[gfrang]

I tried to peek twice and got good signal strength, storms came in and signals dropped like a rock.Third time i used the dither method and had no trouble. I use 103c sat. I feel this method is the only to get near perfect alignment.

[RobertE]

. It would be nice if the written instructions cautioned about assembling the back plate with the 3 tilt bolts pointing out, since nearly everyone seems to do that backwards the first time around. :)

It's a right of passage. :) !Devil_lol