View Full Version : HD installation question
Do I need an HD TV hooked up when they install the 5lnb dish? I still have not made up my mind on a TV yet:grin:
David MacLeod
05-26-08, 11:54 AM
I ran an SD tv for about a month or so after dish and hr20 was installed. I used s vid for connection to tv.
Michael D'Angelo
05-26-08, 11:55 AM
No, the installer can set the HD receiver/HD DVR whatever you are getting up to work with your SD TV and check to make sure you are getting good signals on all SAT's and it will work fine with your SD TV.
Once you replace the SD TV with an HDTV you will just need to make some changes in the menu.
TigersFanJJ
05-26-08, 06:20 PM
No, the installer can set the HD receiver/HD DVR whatever you are getting up to work with your SD TV and check to make sure you are getting good signals on all SAT's and it will work fine with your SD TV.
Once you replace the SD TV with an HDTV you will just need to make some changes in the menu.
Just to add a little to this. The installer can connect the HD receiver to your SDTV as long as long as either the SDTV has a composite input (RCA input or s-video) or you have a composite to RF converter box. The reason why is because the HD receiver does not have a RF (coax) output.
While it is possible to do the upgrade and hook the receiver to your sdtv, I wouldn't recommend it. Without having the hd tv there at the time of install, there are settings the installer cannot set. Then, if you have any problems hooking up the new tv and call D* for a service call, there goes the installers pay for the job. There are many installers that would not do the upgrade without an hdtv present for these reasons. While it may be an inconvenience for you to wait, it could mean alot more for the installer.
David MacLeod
05-26-08, 08:49 PM
While it is possible to do the upgrade and hook the receiver to your sdtv, I wouldn't recommend it. Without having the hd tv there at the time of install, there are settings the installer cannot set. Then, if you have any problems hooking up the new tv and call D* for a service call, there goes the installers pay for the job. There are many installers that would not do the upgrade without an hdtv present for these reasons. While it may be an inconvenience for you to wait, it could mean alot more for the installer.
I'm trying to figure out what, other than the hdmi setting screen, settings you need an hdtv for? the hdmi setting doesn't affect aim\install and an sd tv will show the satellite screens ok.
SD televisions don't have HDMI compatibility issues, audio sync issues .... never mind.
RobertE
05-26-08, 10:07 PM
I'm trying to figure out what, other than the hdmi setting screen, settings you need an hdtv for? the hdmi setting doesn't affect aim\install and an sd tv will show the satellite screens ok.
4:3 vs 16:9. Set it for 4:3 so the picture looks "normal" now, will look messed up when you get your widescreen setup.
480/720/1080. If set to something other than optimal your picture may look poor.
Crop, stretch, zoom, letterbox? Which one?
Any one or all of these you may or may not know how to setup after the tech leaves. You call in complaining that the installer did a crappy job, want credits, free service call, blah, blah, blah.
In the end, there is a good chance that now the installer will get a backcharge for an incomplete install and/or have to go back on his own dime to set up your TV which you should have been in place to start with.
David MacLeod
05-27-08, 05:23 AM
ok, so its more of a not knowing how to use the menu (receiver as well as tv) than an actual installation issue then.
BattleZone
05-27-08, 01:23 PM
ok, so its more of a not knowing how to use the menu (receiver as well as tv) than an actual installation issue then.
Yes, except that DirecTV considers all of those items to be the responsibility of the tech as part of the installation. They get LOTS of calls from customers who have issues with those, and spend millions on service calls to correct those issues, so they want to minimize those problems.
joe diamond
05-27-08, 02:14 PM
The precall I do before installing the jobs I sell includes "Is your HDTV now in use?".........No = reschedule and "It just got here and is still in the box = There will be a charge to mount and start your set." + yes I can mount it on a wall.......tell me hoe I can help?"
You really gotta have the HD rig all there........accept a SD box to get started.
When the HD rig arrives get an upgrade.
Joe
David MacLeod
05-27-08, 02:20 PM
seems somewhat counterproductive on D*'s part. hd setups look better on sd tv than sd does, or at least it did on my 2 sd tv's. I ran like that for approx a month before buying the new tv's.
I know people who have the hd equipment even on sd tv and they are happy with it.
how can they not install an hd setup on an sd tv when thats what the customer wants?
darn sure puts the installers in a rough spot, but thats a whole other topic :)
BattleZone
05-27-08, 08:48 PM
seems somewhat counterproductive on D*'s part. hd setups look better on sd tv than sd does, or at least it did on my 2 sd tv's. I ran like that for approx a month before buying the new tv's.
I know people who have the hd equipment even on sd tv and they are happy with it.
how can they not install an hd setup on an sd tv when thats what the customer wants?
darn sure puts the installers in a rough spot, but thats a whole other topic :)
Because 50% of the customers who want their HD box connected to their SD TV today will bitch and raise holy hell when DirecTV doesn't send someone back out to their house FOR FREE to "connect YOUR equipment correctly!"
Lots of people feel entitled to be unreasonable, and when they are in possession of several hundred dollars worth of your equipment that hasn't been paid for, and the only way to get them to pay for it is to give them a free service call, you usually end up giving them a free service call. Or rather, you end up forcing the original installer to give them a free service call, or to pay another tech to give them one.
Techs refuse these installs because that's the system they work under. It all goes back to "free installation."
joe diamond
05-28-08, 10:06 PM
IIP.
Exactly!
I once accepted a fulfillment job way out of my range ( $30.00 extra to drive & gas) to install a four setter. DTV sent a sidecar with four D-10s. No HDTV receiver because....there was no HDTV at that time.
SEVERAL months later I was asked to drive 70 miles /2 hrs one way to "look"........I called the customer and he stated that, yes he had moved the dish to build the new garage....and now they had a HDTV and wanted the right "receiver box."
DTV eventually sent their HSP wonk who reported "sloppy wiring" and that cost me $100.00/////the customer moved the wire and "sloppy" is not a technical term/ The FREE installation does not refer to "neat" which my work was before the cx moved it.......Grrrr!
I never got paid for the job..........no longer take any work from that (Florida ) company
Joe
PS :Yes, Bill it was the rednecks down in the swamp.....somebody island..$30.00 = less than one trip!
The precall I do before installing the jobs I sell includes "Is your HDTV now in use?".........No = reschedule and "It just got here and is still in the box = There will be a charge to mount and start your set." + yes I can mount it on a wall.......tell me hoe I can help?"
You really gotta have the HD rig all there........accept a SD box to get started.
When the HD rig arrives get an upgrade.
Joe
Ok, I'm considering going back to D*, and I currently don't have an HDTV. Your advice is to have an SD box installed, and then later get an upgrade to HD. How much am I going to get charged for the upgrade to the HD box and installation at that later date, in 3 months? If I get it all at the same time, I get a big discount on the HD DVR, and I get the "free" installation you guys love so much. How much of a hit am I going to take because other people don't know how to set up their tv? Maybe I should just stay with cable, they just raise my rates, they don't charge me an upfront cost when I lease their equipment and if I want to upgrade they just stop by my house with the new equipment.
They should be able to install an HD box on a SD TV. Many around here run setups like that cause of the extra SD recording time you get with the HD-DVRs.
All the outputs are on all the time on the HR2x series and thus you just have to plug in your HDMI or Component cables and you are good to go. Yes there are tweaks like how you want the sd content to be (Stretched or pillar bars) and telling the box you have a widescreen attatched. But they are simple settings.
Heck, they are more like preferences and I had to change them anways after the installer as they set them differently than I liked (I wanted pillar bars for SD content and I wanted all resolutions enabled so it would be native).
They should be able to install an HD box on a SD TV. Many around here run setups like that cause of the extra SD recording time you get with the HD-DVRs.
All the outputs are on all the time on the HR2x series and thus you just have to plug in your HDMI or Component cables and you are good to go. Yes there are tweaks like how you want the sd content to be (Stretched or pillar bars) and telling the box you have a widescreen attatched. But they are simple settings.
Heck, they are more like preferences and I had to change them anways after the installer as they set them differently than I liked (I wanted pillar bars for SD content and I wanted all resolutions enabled so it would be native).
I really don't see what the big deal is either. I currently have a Motorola HDTV DVR box and have it set up to deliver the signal through component cables to my SD tv. I use the HD channels because they give a superior picture. What I don't need is for an installer to decide he won't do the installation because I don't have HDTV. It sometimes seems in reading these threads that some installers spend most of their time finding reasons not to do installations.
BattleZone
06-03-08, 02:06 PM
It sometimes seems in reading these threads that some installers spend most of their time finding reasons not to do installations.
No, they're trying to prevent having to go back to the job to do a free service call, or prevent being charged back.
Here's a scenario: you are an installer. You go to a customer's house with only an SDTV. You explain the issues to him, and ask him to sign off that he understands that HD won't work (in HD) on his SDTV and that the customer must take responsiblity for hooking up and setting up the receiver if/when he replaces the TV. The customer signs off on your paperwork, and you call dispatch and note the call accordingly.
You're protected, right?
WRONG. In most cases, if someone from that account calls to complain, the tech is either going to have to go back out for free or will be charged back when someone else does. Heck, sometimes it's BOTH. And it isn't DirecTV who is doing this, but the HSP. The HSP isn't noting the account with DirecTV (and they're the only ones with access to do so) and/or not bothering to check to see if the repeat service call was customer-caused or not. The HSP will have 500-800 work orders to complete TODAY, so they simply refuse to spend the time and money to find out what's going on. It's far easier just to let their automated systems charge back the previous tech based on his tech number.
Is it wrong? Of course. But it makes the HSP a lot more money to work this way, and since DirecTV doesn't seem to be very interested in preventing it, the HSPs continue to get away with it. And everyone else (the customer, the tech, and DirecTV) loses while the HSP wins big.
An installer who simply "did the right thing" and "just did" the work, hoping that the pay issues could be worked out later, would be out of business inside a couple of weeks. I've seen it happen. So have a lot of the other installers (and former installers) on this board. No one would like to see this stuff fixed more than the installers.
ladannen
06-03-08, 02:23 PM
No first hand experience on this but after reading the boards here for a while, I have come to the conclusion that choosing between a SD setup or a HD setup should done before the install, with little chance of changing your mind.
1st scenario: You choose SD install now, but decide going to HD 3 months from now:
The installer installs a "SD dish" and sells you SD boxes. Upgrading to HD boxes later isn't difficult, but upgrading to a "HD dish" might not be free, and may result in more holes in your roof Also, any deals on discounted HD boxes may be gone.
2nd scenario: You choose HD install now, but decide going to SD 3 months from now:
The installer installs a "HD dish" and sells you HD boxes. When downgrading to SD, you will need to return the HD boxes, and buy new SD boxes.
See this thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=130029
David MacLeod
06-03-08, 04:06 PM
self install is a LOT easier :)
I didn't charge myself when I came back to myself to hook my new hd tv's up after running sd for 2 months :)
No, they're trying to prevent having to go back to the job to do a free service call, or prevent being charged back.
Here's a scenario: you are an installer. You go to a customer's house with only an SDTV. You explain the issues to him, and ask him to sign off that he understands that HD won't work (in HD) on his SDTV and that the customer must take responsiblity for hooking up and setting up the receiver if/when he replaces the TV. The customer signs off on your paperwork, and you call dispatch and note the call accordingly.
You're protected, right?
WRONG. In most cases, if someone from that account calls to complain, the tech is either going to have to go back out for free or will be charged back when someone else does. Heck, sometimes it's BOTH. And it isn't DirecTV who is doing this, but the HSP. The HSP isn't noting the account with DirecTV (and they're the only ones with access to do so) and/or not bothering to check to see if the repeat service call was customer-caused or not. The HSP will have 500-800 work orders to complete TODAY, so they simply refuse to spend the time and money to find out what's going on. It's far easier just to let their automated systems charge back the previous tech based on his tech number.
Is it wrong? Of course. But it makes the HSP a lot more money to work this way, and since DirecTV doesn't seem to be very interested in preventing it, the HSPs continue to get away with it. And everyone else (the customer, the tech, and DirecTV) loses while the HSP wins big.
An installer who simply "did the right thing" and "just did" the work, hoping that the pay issues could be worked out later, would be out of business inside a couple of weeks. I've seen it happen. So have a lot of the other installers (and former installers) on this board. No one would like to see this stuff fixed more than the installers.
I know installers have to deal with very stupid and annoying customers (heck, I have delt with many in my own side of the electronics trade), but at the same time it should not be that big of an issue in this case.
In fact, my installer gave me his cell number and card and said if I had any issues to give him a call and he would be happy to come back over and help with anything.
Now, all in all for me I just wish they let us self install like in the 90s, only thing I really needed help on was aiming the slimline for the HD satellites since I dont have a good meter.
Tiger62
06-04-08, 07:10 AM
self install is a LOT easier :)
I didn't charge myself when I came back to myself to hook my new hd tv's up after running sd for 2 months :)
You should've gotten a charge-back! That would teach you a lesson! :lol:
David MacLeod
06-04-08, 07:20 AM
You should've gotten a charge-back! That would teach you a lesson! :lol:
lol, yeah that would have taught me a lesson :)
TigersFanJJ
06-04-08, 08:10 AM
In fact, my installer gave me his cell number and card and said if I had any issues to give him a call and he would be happy to come back over and help with anything.
I used give out my cell number on installs, but not anymore. I got tired of people calling me 2-3 years after their install, expecting me to drop what I was doing at the time and drive 60+ miles to put their tv on the correct input or to reprogram their remote for a new tv. For free.
When your phone rings more for people wanting something for nothing than it does for the jobs you are getting paid for, you have to decide if it is worth it to be nice by giving out your personal number. It wasn't worth it to me.
spartanstew
06-04-08, 08:15 AM
I had my first HR20 installed about 9 months ago and I didn't yet have an HDTV.
No problems. I have really good installers in my area though. Also, I would never expect (or even allow) an installer to adjust my menu settings. I've always taken care of that.
No first hand experience on this but after reading the boards here for a while, I have come to the conclusion that choosing between a SD setup or a HD setup should done before the install, with little chance of changing your mind.
1st scenario: You choose SD install now, but decide going to HD 3 months from now:
The installer installs a "SD dish" and sells you SD boxes. Upgrading to HD boxes later isn't difficult, but upgrading to a "HD dish" might not be free, and may result in more holes in your roof Also, any deals on discounted HD boxes may be gone.
2nd scenario: You choose HD install now, but decide going to SD 3 months from now:
The installer installs a "HD dish" and sells you HD boxes. When downgrading to SD, you will need to return the HD boxes, and buy new SD boxes.
See this thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=130029
Thanks for this post. None of the installers seems to have wanted to answer post #15, in response to Joe Diamond's advice to "just upgrade". Like I thought, its just another way to get me to spend more money, and evidently for the installer to get paid for a second "install".
RobertE
06-04-08, 01:21 PM
Thanks for this post. None of the installers seems to have wanted to answer post #15, in response to Joe Diamond's advice to "just upgrade". Like I thought, its just another way to get me to spend more money, and evidently for the installer to get paid for a second "install".
No blanket statement will cover the $$$ questions you are asking. I install the stuff, how much it costs is between you and DirecTv. I stay out of it. To many factors involved. Custom work, thats between you and me, that I can get detailed with. Worst case, $199 for the HD DVR & $99 for the upgrade, @ $20 "handling". Probably not the answer you wanted, but thats worst case and best I can do.
RobertE
06-04-08, 01:24 PM
I used give out my cell number on installs, but not anymore. I got tired of people calling me 2-3 years after their install, expecting me to drop what I was doing at the time and drive 60+ miles to put their tv on the correct input or to reprogram their remote for a new tv. For free.
When your phone rings more for people wanting something for nothing than it does for the jobs you are getting paid for, you have to decide if it is worth it to be nice by giving out your personal number. It wasn't worth it to me.
Agreed, I very, very rarely give out my number anymore. It amazed me as to how many people thought I was on call for them personally 24/7 for free. Nope, sorry not happening.
BattleZone
06-04-08, 06:53 PM
Agreed, I very, very rarely give out my number anymore. It amazed me as to how many people thought I was on call for them personally 24/7 for free. Nope, sorry not happening.
I have a business line for my company, staffed 8am-8pm. People have left messages at midnight and even 3am because they accidentally changed their TV's input channel and "don't have TV". We get calls for all kinds of crazy things too. People call us trying to get us to give them free upgrades, hook up additional rooms (for free), install their new surround-sound systems (6 months after we did their sat install), or even come fix their Internet (DSL) which they're CERTAIN was "messed up" when our tech was out installing the satellite system, even though we hadn't been there in 3 weeks and it's been working until today.
The ones I love go something like this:
Customer: "Hey, I got your number from my boy; he says you can come hook up my satellite. I got some receivers, I just need you to install everything and turn me on."
Me: "I'd be happy to sell you a dish and do your installation for you. Installations start at $150 and go up from there."
Customer: "Naw, man. That's supposed to be free!"
Me: "For that, you'd need to call the main company and set up an account. As long as you can pass the credit check, you can get a free basic system with installation, with a 2 year programming commitment."
Customer: "I just need these receivers turned on. Can't you give me the hook up?"
Me: "We just handle installations. All programming is handled by the main company."
Customer: "But I already have the receivers; I just need them to be hooked up."
Me: "Sure thing. Would you like to set up an appointment for an installation quote?"
Customer: "I'll call you back."
TigersFanJJ
06-04-08, 09:13 PM
Thanks for this post. None of the installers seems to have wanted to answer post #15, in response to Joe Diamond's advice to "just upgrade". Like I thought, its just another way to get me to spend more money, and evidently for the installer to get paid for a second "install".
Sorry for not answering that post. When I read the post, I kind of overlooked the question because it looked like you had it figured out that it would probably cost extra if you upgraded later.
The hsp installers that post here aren't just trying to get you to spend more money. Installers will not get paid for a "second install" but will only see upgrade pay which is much less than an install. If you do a search and can find the threads where some installers have posted their pay rate, you will see that they make very little to do an upgrade. Several have posted that they only make $20-30 for an upgrade. That rate of pay is hardly worth the extra labor that is involved in performing the upgrade and probably won't make up for what they had to pay for the gas that they used to get to your house (if they are a subcontractor). It's certainly not enough to try to steer someone to pay extra later.
Not trying to sound to harsh but just telling it like I see it.
joe diamond
06-05-08, 02:22 PM
Yup,
The customer will pay for the upgrade.
AND the installer will get spit to come and do it. I refused to do an upgrade because there was no equipment EVER on site, the cx was moving in and some time in the next few weeks would probably get one of those HDTVs. Since I was an employee for an HSP sub I just let the office change the work order to "new installation". I left and it took an additional day to sort out the paperwork.
My earlier point was that the HD decision requires purchase of a new and expensive HD TV, an HD receiver, the installation of a dish with different technical requirements and a longer service commitment. The chances of all this working well without a little planning are slim.
So get a basic system in and when ready to spend money on the HD system spend it (or not) wisely.
Joe
cartrivision
06-05-08, 07:02 PM
The precall I do before installing the jobs I sell includes "Is your HDTV now in use?".........No = reschedule and "It just got here and is still in the box = There will be a charge to mount and start your set." + yes I can mount it on a wall.......tell me hoe I can help?"
You really gotta have the HD rig all there........accept a SD box to get started.
When the HD rig arrives get an upgrade.
Joe
This is complete nonsense. There is no reason to require an HD TV for a HD DVR install. Believe me, if I got a bullsh** call like that ahead of my installation and I didn't have a HD TV, after a call to DirecTV, my installation would be rescheduled with a more competent installer... and your installation company would probably be told by DirecTV to stop trying to make up and enforce nonsensical policy that is not part of DirecTV’s policy.
cartrivision
06-05-08, 07:12 PM
Yup,
The customer will pay for the upgrade.
AND the installer will get spit to come and do it. I refused to do an upgrade because there was no equipment EVER on site, the cx was moving in and some time in the next few weeks would probably get one of those HDTVs. Since I was an employee for an HSP sub I just let the office change the work order to "new installation". I left and it took an additional day to sort out the paperwork.
My earlier point was that the HD decision requires purchase of a new and expensive HD TV, an HD receiver, the installation of a dish with different technical requirements and a longer service commitment. The chances of all this working well without a little planning are slim.
So get a basic system in and when ready to spend money on the HD system spend it (or not) wisely.
Joe
This is really bad advise. I would advise ignoring it if you plan to get a HD TV shortly after installing DirecTV. The only thing that following this bad advise from this installer will do is create additional expense for the customer and more business for the installer.
TigersFanJJ
06-07-08, 08:44 AM
This is complete nonsense. There is no reason to require an HD TV for a HD DVR install. Believe me, if I got a bullsh** call like that ahead of my installation and I didn't have a HD TV, after a call to DirecTV, my installation would be rescheduled with a more competent installer... and your installation company would probably be told by DirecTV to stop trying to make up and enforce nonsensical policy that is not part of DirecTV’s policy.
It isn't complete nonsense and it doesn't have anything to do with how competent the installer is. Non-competent end users causing chargebacks are the ones that have ruined it for everyone.
BTW, it is Directv policy for techs not to do the install if the customer doesn't have the proper equipment. And yes, this does include an HDTV for an HD install.
Your best way to go if you decide to install the directv before the tv is to call a local independent dealer. They will have more flexibility and will probably do the install because they know you will be calling them (and not directv) if you have a problem getting the new tv up and going.
TigersFanJJ
06-07-08, 08:55 AM
This is really bad advise. I would advise ignoring it if you plan to get a HD TV shortly after installing DirecTV. The only thing that following this bad advise from this installer will do is create additional expense for the customer and more business for the installer.
I would consider missing a day of work when the install gets cancelled to be an additional expense. As I said in my post above, the best thing to do is go local (or just get the HDTV first).
joe diamond
06-07-08, 05:34 PM
At the end of the installation the customer is asked to accept the installation. If major components are missing they cannot be monitored. There are occasional defective receivers and dishes; defective out of the box. My opinion is still to wait until all ducks are in a row.
Free advice is often worth exactly what you pay for it.
Joe
vBulletin® v3.7.6, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.