Realign Needed?

[glou]

I haven't had any major problems with these numbers yet, but the weather here is mostly clear. I do get some freezing and pixelation problems from time to time but they only last for a second.

Here are my numbers:

101º
1-8 94 94 92 0 92 97 93 97
9-16 94 95 93 0 95 98 92 98
17-24 94 100 92 0 95 98 93 97
25-32 93 0 91 100 92 97 88 98

110º
1-8 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 90
9-16 N/A 85 N/A 89 N/A N/A N/A
17-24 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

119º
1-8 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
9-16 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
17-24 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 87 66 83
25-32 87 91 88 89 0 90 79 91

99º(s)
1-8 0 64 0 77 0 86 N/A N/A
9-16 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
17-24 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

103º(s)
1-8 0 0 0 0 0 0 N/A N/A
9-16 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 0 0
17-24 77 77 97 97 100 0 0 0
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

103º(c)
1-8 66 57 63 56 70 62 66 60
9-16 74 69 72 68 77 73 N/A N/A
17-24 77 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

I tried realigning myself but I was only able to increase the numbers by 5 on the
103º(c) numbers. I only did the fine tune adjustments for azimuth and elevation. I also called out a tech but these were the numbers after he was done. He said that after the software update the numbers would increase. There have already been two software updates since he came out and the numbers are still the same.
By looking at these numbers do you know what may be out of alignment. I will probably call another tech out since I am still within my warranty. Is it possible to request a tech that knows how to align a dish correctly?

[tvjay]

I had numbers like this......are the numbers on both tuners? or just tuner 1? My problem was a bad LNB.

[Radio Enginerd]

I haven't had any major problems with these numbers yet, but the weather here is mostly clear. I do get some freezing and pixelation problems from time to time but they only last for a second.

Here are my numbers:

101º
1-8 94 94 92 0 92 97 93 97
9-16 94 95 93 0 95 98 92 98
17-24 94 100 92 0 95 98 93 97
25-32 93 0 91 100 92 97 88 98

110º
1-8 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 90
9-16 N/A 85 N/A 89 N/A N/A N/A
17-24 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

119º
1-8 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
9-16 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
17-24 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 87 66 83
25-32 87 91 88 89 0 90 79 91

99º(s)
1-8 0 64 0 77 0 86 N/A N/A
9-16 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
17-24 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

103º(s)
1-8 0 0 0 0 0 0 N/A N/A
9-16 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 0 0
17-24 77 77 97 97 100 0 0 0
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

103º(c)
1-8 66 57 63 56 70 62 66 60
9-16 74 69 72 68 77 73 N/A N/A
17-24 77 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

I tried realigning myself but I was only able to increase the numbers by 5 on the
103º(c) numbers. I only did the fine tune adjustments for azimuth and elevation. I also called out a tech but these were the numbers after he was done. He said that after the software update the numbers would increase. There have already been two software updates since he came out and the numbers are still the same.
By looking at these numbers do you know what may be out of alignment. I will probably call another tech out since I am still within my warranty. Is it possible to request a tech that knows how to align a dish correctly?Have you checked your Tilt? Do you know if you are getting anything spot beamed on 99s? Your 103c numbers a pretty low. You should be seeing them in the 80's+.

If you're under warranty, push to get another tech out. Software updates will not correct this problem and this will only create trouble for you in the future if you ignore it.

[K4SMX]

..... I also called out a tech but these were the numbers after he was done. ..... I will probably call another tech out since I am still within my warranty.
You need a different dish, a different tech, or both.

.....Is it possible to request a tech that knows how to align a dish correctly?
:rolleyes:

[glou]

tvjay: These numbers are on both tuners.

Radio Enginerd: I did not try to adjust the tilt. I looked at the numbers based on zip code and the dish is tilted to the correct number. How do you know if you are getting anything spot beamed on 99s?

K4SMX: I will call another tech out and if he still can't get better numbers do I call another tech out or request a new dish?

[evan_s]

Radio Enginerd: I did not try to adjust the tilt. I looked at the numbers based on zip code and the dish is tilted to the correct number. How do you know if you are getting anything spot beamed on 99s?
Your tilt might still need adjusting. The stats the receiver gives you or even dish pointer should be considered a starting point to get you close enough to start fine tuning.

K4SMX: I will call another tech out and if he still can't get better numbers do I call another tech out or request a new dish?

50's and 60's are definitely on the low end for the 103c signals. One thing to note is the tech quite possibly might not be able to check the 103 signal with their hand held unit and you might need to do a two man setup shouting the signals from your receivers signal meter. It is possible to align the dish well with out a meter to read 103 signals but does require additional steps beyond just peaking 101.

[K4SMX]

There is also the possibility that your mast is not plumb. It is very difficult to align a 5 LNB dish with an out-of-plumb mast. What is suspicious about your numbers is that as bad as your 103(c)'s are, and they're pretty miserable for a second attempt, your 101's and 119's shouldn't be as low as they are.

I'd have the next tech pull that dish and carefully check the plumb of the mast with a good level. I use a 9" "torpedo" level, which you can buy at any big box home improvement store. Most of them have a groove in one side for accurate leveling of cylindrical objects.

It's not impossible that instead you might need to replace the LNB, so I would make sure the next guy knows to have one with him.

[avmaster]

I would make sure that all of the fittings and cable all the way from the lmb on the dish to the reciever itself are up to spec.

There should be NO crimp style fittings anywhere inline between your reciever and the dish.

As an installer thats been in the game for a while, swapping out old fittings was not a normal practice for most of us, now that HD has grown and we are using a lot more bandwith, the fittings and cable are much more critical.

I would check all of that before going further, its a VERY common cause of pixelation.

the 103 siginal does sound kind of low as well, but start with the cables, and also look for any intermittent obstructions of the siginal like a tree that is somewhat blocking the siginal.

[David MacLeod]

you know one common thing I see here in these posts is software being blamed. why is that? I've had a lot of updates (CE) and none have ever affected (to my knowledge) any of the signals.

was this an issue originally? got my boxes in feb/mar 2008 so I would not know about earlier software.

[Mertzen]

you know one common thing I see here in these posts is software being blamed. why is that? I've had a lot of updates (CE) and none have ever affected (to my knowledge) any of the signals.

was this an issue originally? got my boxes in feb/mar 2008 so I would not know about earlier software.

Some time ago, maybe mid 07, H20 IRDs underreported signal strength by 20%. Was fixed with later software updates.

[gfrang]

What lnb do you have Calamp run a littler lower in signal. Try to realign using 103c
and make sure you dither it. Signal numbers aren't as important as how it performs in bad weather.

[glou]

What lnb do you have Calamp run a littler lower in signal. Try to realign using 103c
and make sure you dither it. Signal numbers aren't as important as how it performs in bad weather.

It's a Calamp. How much lower does the signal run?

[K4SMX]

It's a Calamp. How much lower does the signal run?
Higher on 103(c) than what you have so far. I think you need a mast plumb check and a new dish/LNB. Those signals are below DirecTV minimums, which are overly generous.

[glou]

Tech came out today and replaced the LNB. The 103c went up slightly but all my other numbers went down. He said this is as high as he can get them and not to worry about the 119 since they won't be using them anymore. Do you know what channels use the 110 since they are very low now.

Receiver HR21-100
Here are the new numbers:

101º
1-8 93 89 88 0 88 96 86 96
9-16 86 92 90 0 89 96 82 96
17-24 77 100 80 0 88 96 81 95
25-32 88 0 78 100 77 95 80 97

110º
1-8 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 72
9-16 N/A 60 N/A 66 N/A N/A N/A N/A
17-24 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

119º
1-8 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
9-16 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
17-21 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 71 60 69
25-32 82 74 85 74 0 76 75 78

99º(s)
1-8 0 67 0 73 0 86 N/A N/A
9-16 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
17-24 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

103º(s)
1-8 0 0 0 0 0 0 N/A N/A
9-16 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 0 0
17-24 79 70 99 98 100 0 0 0
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

103º(c)
1-8 76 73 74 68 74 73 74 68
9-16 76 73 76 72 79 77 N/A N/A
17-24 79 N/A N/A N/A N/A 52 N/A N/A
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

[K4SMX]

Tech came out today and replaced the LNB. The 103c went up slightly but all my other numbers went down. He said this is as high as he can get them and not to worry about the 119 since they won't be using them anymore. Do you know what channels use the 110 since they are very low now.

Receiver HR21-100
Here are the new numbers:

110º
1-8 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 72
9-16 N/A 60 N/A 66 N/A N/A N/A N/A
17-24 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A


103º(c)
1-8 76 73 74 68 74 73 74 68
9-16 76 73 76 72 79 77 N/A N/A
17-24 79 N/A N/A N/A N/A 52 N/A N/A
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
Those numbers are still below DirecTV minimums. You need to call a supervisor at the installation company. Did he check your mast plumb? (This usually requires removing the entire dish temporarily.) Perhaps your dish is warped. Channels 70, 71, and 73-78 use the 110.

[glou]

I went up there and adjusted the tilt slightly and the numbers went up a little. The 110s went into the 70's and 80's and some of the 103's started to go into the 80's.
Do you know if my elevation is correct. Based on my zip code it should be 47º, but I didn't see a notch like there is when doing the tilt. I am using a second generation back assembly if that helps. I also took a picture of the elevation setting. Does it look correct? http://members.dslextreme.com/users/glou/elevation_setting.jpg

[gfrang]

I went up there and adjusted the tilt slightly and the numbers went up a little. The 110s went into the 70's and 80's and some of the 103's started to go into the 80's.
Do you know if my THe is correct. Based on my zip code it should be 47º, but I didn't see a notch like there is when doing the tilt. I am using a second generation back assembly if that helps. I also took a picture of the elevation setting. Does it look correct? http://members.dslextreme.com/users/glou/elevation_setting.jpg

The elevation looks ok for initial setting but you have to peak it.

[glou]

If I use the 9" "torpedo" level to check if the mast is plumb. is it possible to do without removing the dish.

[K4SMX]

Not with a normal mounting arm. Carefully mark the spot where the mount meets the mast with a Sharpie and remove the dish temporarily. Correct the plumb if necessary. Re-mount the dish and do a rough re-peak of a 101 satelllite tp before locking down the main bolts on the dish mount. Then peak the alignment with the AZ and EL fine alignment bolts by selecting one of the weaker tp's for the 103(c) using the Signal Meters selection under View Satellite Signals. (Note that selecting the Signal Meters initially defaults you back to the 101 satellite.)

[avmaster]

It depends on the software version, some of the newer HR21's have been reading a bit low on the 103, but its within spec. Anything over 70% on the 103c is acceptable. Its probably actually higher than that, the in box siginal meter is not very accurate.

For example, HR21 and H20 in the same house, one reads 100% on the 103 and the other one at about 70%.

Pixelation is more likely a bad connector not up to spec or poorly tightened connector, or maybe some RG59 somplace in line the system.

It does look like the skew needs to be adjusted though, not the elevation or az

just loosen the 3 bolts that attach the knuckle to the dish and move the west side of the dish to be tilted upwards a bit more, that should bring up the 119(even though the 119 really doesn't matter anymore)

[K4SMX]

It depends on the software version, some of the newer HR21's have been reading a bit low on the 103.....
I've seen that as well, but not as low as his initial numbers. He's getting there. Suffice it to say that if your mast is dead level plumb, and you align a properly-working dish correctly, it is what it is on the Signal Meters.