TenBox Storage Device

[bk63ross]

Anyone out there with this pricey box? Is it that easy to plug and play and is it a stable unit? www.tenbox.net

[Michael D'Angelo]

Besides Earl I don't know of anyone else with one.

Here is the first look Earl did on it......http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=103332&highlight=TenBox

and here is some discussion about it.....http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=98122&highlight=TenBox

[IneedCCs]

I've owned a TenBox for 8 months, and it hasn't been a good experience. It crashed when the HR20 it was connected to received a software update and went into an endless restart cycle when I tried to restart it. I had to disconnect it, repack it, ship it back, have it serviced, get it back and re-connect it. In the process I lost all of my recordings, and there were a lot of 'em. Since getting it back, it has frozen up a couple of times and has cost me the loss of a couple of ballgames. Getting it back up and running took a few hours. A royal pain, inconvenience, major expense and source of aggravation.

In short, my experience has been that this product is not ready for prime time. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't buy one. I recommend that anyone looking for additional storage benefit from the knowledge I have gained from this bad experience and look elsewhere, the TenBox is not the answer.

[DVRupgrade]

We've actually sold quite a few and have had no problems other than with the aforementioned customer.

In addition, after having the customer unit examined by the vendor, we found nothing wrong with it; it sounds like the problem that occurred was related, in some way, to the DIRECTV software upgrade.

But given that it was an isolated incident, it was not related to the TenBox itself; again, none of our customers (nor any of TenLabs customers) had a problem at all.

So in short, we think the product is mature and certainly ready for 'prime time' - we continue to stand behind it.

Lou

[Grentz]

I dont see the point really, it is WAY overpriced IMO and it does not even match that well with the DVRs.

For 1TB (MSRP $1200 from tenbox) you could get a setup for around $250 or even less if you just buy a External HDD Cage and 1TB HDD...

[IneedCCs]

We've actually sold quite a few and have had no problems other than with the aforementioned customer.

In addition, after having the customer unit examined by the vendor, we found nothing wrong with it; it sounds like the problem that occurred was related, in some way, to the DIRECTV software upgrade.

But given that it was an isolated incident, it was not related to the TenBox itself; again, none of our customers (nor any of TenLabs customers) had a problem at all.

So in short, we think the product is mature and certainly ready for 'prime time' - we continue to stand behind it.

Lou

A few points, but before I make them, let me say what would normally be said at the end right up front: I am an end-user, a purchaser who merely imparted his experiences with the TenBox for others to consider so that they wouldn't get burned. I have no axe to grind, and I have no monetary interest in the success or failure of the TenBox or sales of the same. I'm an unbiased individual.

Compare that to the poster to whom I am replying when weighing the merits of our respective statements.

Having said that -- I could write volumes, but I won't. That they attempt to blame DTV underscores one of the problems. If things go sour, they'll blame DTV's equipment. And I'm sure that if I contacted DTV, they would say they can't be responsible for the performance of others' equipment (which, of course, they can't). So, you're caught between a rock and a hard place.

During the past eight/nine months, I actually had the use of a second TenBox for a couple of days, which was connected to a different HR20. Nothing but problems. Couldn't even get the HR20 to "see" the TenBox. I sent it back. I'm not an idiot. It wasn't me. The thing simply didn't work. Of course, DVRupgrade told me they had no problem with it. So, I guess I'm an idiot, I don't know how to push a power button, connect a cable and restart the HR20...

As for the assertion that I'm the only one who's had problems -- (1) To repeat, I'm not an idiot, I know what I'm doing, and this thing is not ready for prime time, and (2) see my introductory comments in the first paragraph of my response, above.

I haven't addressed, and am not addressing, the high price of the TenBox. If it did what it was supposed to do, was reliable and stable, I would be posting here with my accolades for the unit. But it doesn't and it isn't, and I simply wanted to share my experiences with others on this forum so that they take what I've said into consideration in deciding what option to go for if they wish to add storage space to their HR20s.

[Chris Blount]

Just for everyone's info. The 1TB TenBox now has a lower price of $599.

http://www.tenbox.net

[Stuart Sweet]

Also, I know that the Tenbox folks have been working hard to improve reliability and stability... might be worth a try.

[russdog]

Just for everyone's info. The 1TB TenBox now has a lower price of $599.

http://www.tenbox.net
It might work great, I really don't know.
But I do know that their "new lower price" is still 4 times the cost of comparable solutions that have a good track record.

I also see that they've used the dbstalk PM system to spam me.
Is that illegal?
Can I spam people here about whatever I might be selling too?
Can they buy permission to do that?
Or what?

[Ken S]

While I won't be purchasing one of their products I wish them well and hope other 3rd party developers will come up with innovative solutions to make the DirecTV product better.

[Chris Blount]

I also see that they've used the dbstalk PM system to spam me.
Is that illegal?
Can I spam people here about whatever I might be selling too?
Can they buy permission to do that?
Or what?No, they are not supposed to be doing that. Please forward me the PM and I will take care of it.

[TenLab]

Russ: I read your lengthy post “Increasing storage capacity of the HR21 DVR” posted 10-16-08.
You wrote that you do not know the reason the HR21/22 do not work with most raid boxes, and
I thought you would be interested in learning that the TenBox works fine with all DirecTV HD DVR.,
including the HR21-100, HR22 and HR23.

As you are open to receiving PM, I sent you a SINGLE email with the info.
I thought that you would appreciate having new info. Next time I’ll post instead.

No spam has been ever done or sent. Group moderators can check this.

Regards
Ed.

[bonscott87]

$599 is getting better. Still a little pricey but I would be willing to pay a premium for the nice box and cooling and such. Of course with the economy I'm not buying anything but get this box down to $399 or so and I'd highly consider it in the future.

[russdog]

Russ: I read your lengthy post “Increasing storage capacity of the HR21 DVR” posted 10-16-08.
You wrote that you do not know the reason the HR21/22 do not work with most raid boxes, and
I thought you would be interested in learning that the TenBox works fine with all DirecTV HD DVR.,
including the HR21-100, HR22 and HR23.

As you are open to receiving PM, I sent you a SINGLE email with the info.
I thought that you would appreciate having new info. Next time I’ll post instead.

No spam has been ever done or sent. Group moderators can check this.

Regards
Ed.
That's fine.
Since I don't know you, and since you are a brand new poster who is obviously here to sell something, I had no reason to think that you had sent a message to just me. So, from my point of view, it sure seemed like sales spam.

However, if you tell me that you sent to just me because of the eSATA FAQ, I believe you.
There was no way to know this from the message. It seemed completely generic sales-spam.
However, I certainly have zero reason to doubt your word, so I believe you.
In other words, "never mind" about my spam comment.
I apologize to you (and everyone else) for having jumped to a wrong conclusion. Mea culpa.

If you do have knowledge about why eSATA performance is so inconsistent re: HR21/22's, I would very much appreciate any information about that. I will be more than happy to incorporate any info you PM to me into the FAQ. However, while you cite that as the motivation for your PM, there was no news about that in there. The only thing you sent to me was a sales message.

[Richierich]

When I see how much this Tenbox costs it makes me so happy to know how little I invested to get an eSATA External RAID BOX with 2 1TB drives in it running RAID 1 so one drive MIRRORS the other in case of a drive failure. I spent less than $500 and their unit is $1299.

Thanks for starting this thread as it has made me VERY VERY HAPPY!!!

[Shades228]

The largest problem is this is the last place to market a product like this. This is a consumers heaven as there are more then enough people on here to come up with solutions. This device has a great chance of being something for your grandma's and people who don't know anything about computers or want to deal with it.

This product is overly expensive for essentially a case and design. I'm sure that right now they're just attempting to break even with R&D and manufacturing costs for that case. However they really need to add something to make this box special other then just something a large esata drive can do other then a cooler case.

[Richierich]

The largest problem is this is the last place to market a product like this. This is a consumers heaven as there are more then enough people on here to come up with solutions. This device has a great chance of being something for your grandma's and people who don't know anything about computers or want to deal with it.

This product is overly expensive for essentially a case and design. I'm sure that right now they're just attempting to break even with R&D and manufacturing costs for that case. However they really need to add something to make this box special other then just something a large esata drive can do other then a cooler case.

I hope that Grandpa & Grandma have alot of money saved up so they can afford ridiculously overly priced luxuries such as this TENBOX!!!

[Stuart Sweet]

Look, there is a niche for the Tenbox. It is much better built than other devices of the same type and while there were some compatibility issues early on, they've worked past that.

[russdog]

Look, there is a niche for the Tenbox.
Nothing wrong with that.
At the same time, you must admit that the extra cost is rather dramatic.


It is much better built than other devices of the same type and while there were some compatibility issues early on, they've worked past that.
Interesting.
Since they are using the same HDD's available to everyone, I assume you're talking about the housing they use.
For the 1TB solution, how is their housing superior to the Antec MX-1?
Does the Antec have weaknesses that theirs does not? If so, what might they be?

[Stuart Sweet]

The Tenbox is designed to be used in a home theatre environment, it has both extra cooling and also is designed to be as quiet as possible.

[Sirshagg]

$599 is getting better. Still a little pricey but I would be willing to pay a premium for the nice box and cooling and such. Of course with the economy I'm not buying anything but get this box down to $399 or so and I'd highly consider it in the future.

For me $299 would be the point where I could consider it.

Wd10eacs - $110
Antec Mx-1 - $40
That's $150 for essentially the same thing. I have no doubt the HD in the tenbox is "better", perhaps the case is also "better". But is it really worth the extra $$$?

[bonscott87]

For me $299 would be the point where I could consider it.

Wd10eacs - $110
Antec Mx-1 - $40
That's $150 for essentially the same thing. I have no doubt the HD in the tenbox is "better", perhaps the case is also "better". But is it really worth the extra $$$?

I'd agree then at $299. Didn't realize the price of 1TB drives have dropped that much.

[Chris Blount]

There is plenty of room for TenBox in the market.

Sure, it's cheaper to buy your own drive and call it a day but for some, that's not enough. If money was not an issue and I wanted something of good quality, is plug and play with a support system behind it, the TenBox would be a no-brainer.

Let's face it, we are geeks. We like to tinker and save a few bucks at the same time. A lot of people don't want to be bothered with technical details and just want something that is plug and play. It's sort of like how Apple does business.

The TenBox has its market. It's good to know it exists. There is really no need to trash them just because their stuff seems overpriced. Who knows. You may be eating your words someday if you suddenly come into a small fortune and decide you want something that "just works". :)

BTW: The above opinion is mine and does not represent the official position of DBSTalk. :)

[Sirshagg]

I honestly wasn't looking to bash them in my post and agree that there is absolutily a market for this device.

[Richierich]

I didn't BASH the TENBOX I just said like you said that it is OVERPRICED!!! END OF STORY!!!

[Rich]

I'd agree then at $299. Didn't realize the price of 1TB drives have dropped that much.

You can get a 1.5TB Xtreme for $219 at some sites. They won't work with the 21s, but still...

$299 is still way too much to pay for a 1TB eSATA.

Rich

[russdog]

Nothing wrong with that.
At the same time, you must admit that the extra cost is rather dramatic.

Since they are using the same HDD's available to everyone, I assume you're talking about the housing they use.
For the 1TB solution, how is their housing superior to the Antec MX-1?
Does the Antec have weaknesses that theirs does not? If so, what might they be?
The Tenbox is designed to be used in a home theatre environment, it has both extra cooling and also is designed to be as quiet as possible.
That's fine.
But is there any reason to believe that it is superior to the Antec?
Does it cool better?
Does it make the actual viewing experience in a home theater any quieter? Is it any quieter from a few feet away?

There is plenty of room for TenBox in the market.

Sure, it's cheaper to buy your own drive and call it a day but for some, that's not enough. If money was not an issue and I wanted something of good quality, is plug and play with a support system behind it, the TenBox would be a no-brainer.

We like to tinker and save a few bucks at the same time.
I think it's fine for anybody to come into the market. I think it's fine for those people to charge whatever they want.
At the same time, the diff between $150 and $600 for what appears to be comparable quality and performance strikes me as being more than just "a few bucks".
While I agree that Apple does charge a bit of a premium, I think the magnitude of the TenBox premium is of a completely different magnitude.
Not trying to talk anybody out of it. If somebody wants to pay that kind of premium, well, it's their money, not mine. People should buy what they want.

I'm mainly surprised by what seems to be unsupported hints that it is somehow superior.
Now, maybe it is superior... but I don't think we have any evidence of that so far.
If we do have evidence that it is actually superior in any meaningful way, I missed it. Is there any?
If somebody was offering an equivalent to the Honda Accord for $100K instead of $25K, would you be encouraging people to buy it?

[raott]

I'm mainly surprised by what seems to be unsupported hints that it is somehow superior.


They are (or once were) advertising on this site, that should take much of your surprise away.

[russdog]

They are (or once were) advertising on this site, that should take much of your surprise away.
Oh.
Well, in that case, I'll just shut up.
(I think it's a fine thing for the site founder to make a buck.)

ps: If I was them, I'd at least think about charging a fair price for their product. They could then add the "Platinum Series" (perhaps with "Gold-plated eSATA connectors for Digital Purity" ;-) for those folks who have Too Much Money. I'll bet they could sell a bunch of their 2TB and 3TB boxes around here if only their price wasn't completely crazy. I'd certainly be willing to give one a thorough going-over... except for the insane price.

[Chris Blount]

As I said in my previous post, that was my opinion and nothing else.

I don't handle the advertising for the site but as far as I know, TenBox is not currently a sponsor here.

You see, I am the founder but not the owner. :)

[t_h]

I'll throw in 2c.

The tenbox uses a maglev style fan, which costs around six dollars each. Not really much difference in price over a standard fan of similar noise levels but the maglev might last a little longer. Basically the only difference is the maglev uses a magnet to push the blade assembly away from the hub and suspends it in a little magnetic field to reduce wobble and potential contact with the fan frame.

I'm guessing from their drive warranty of 3 years that they're using western digital or hitachi OEM drives. Seagate offers five years. Since they note "reduced power consumption", I'm guessing WD greenpowers. Not a bad drive. Also nothing really special in terms of reliability or performance.

From their description:

"Improved stream integrity through time-limited commands: "Hard drives designed for PC applications are optimized for data integrity through enhanced error detection and correction routines". Consumer video recording devices, however, need to be optimized for stream integrity to avoid problems caused by over-execution of error checking, which can cause problems in consumer video recording devices."

Based on this, I'm deeply concerned that they're using the enterprise model of the GP. To recap, most manufacturers offer a standard, "av" and enterprise. Sweeping away the marketing hoo-hah, they're all the same drive with slightly different firmware. The AV models have a few goodies that might make them better in a DVR, but none of the mainstream DVR manufacturers bother to use them in their boxes because they cost more and the 'standard' drive works just fine. There is nothing physically different between any of these types of drive other than the firmware, so no reason to expect that any of them would last longer, provide superior performance or be more resistant to heat or vibration than any of the other ones.

If Tenbox is using the 'enterprise' type, then they've made a huge mistake. The enterprise models primary difference is that it doesnt bother doing a lot of work recovering a bad sector because it presumes its in a raid 5 or better array, and its happy to just fail a write op and let the raid controller remap the data elsewhere.

Since it appears the Tenbox is using Raid 0 or 1, that remapping isnt going to happen.

So if you have a seriously bad write problem and its involving real data, such as a database, operating system code or something similar, you'll have a mismatched mirrored set if in mirroring mode and a hosed striped pair if running in that mode.

If the error is in a video stream, then probably nothing more than a visible glitch.

Rubber mounting everything is nice, but its pretty standard.

Plug and play with support is a nice feature, but thats going to be pretty standard of any external raid solution. You're going to plug it in and its either going to work or not. If after using it for a while, its either going to fail or its not. If it fails, you're going to RMA it.

Lets do a comparison between this and a commonly available alternative, the Cavalry two drive raid box. Similar features, they also use WD drives but the standard instead of the enterprise. Rubber mountings. Not a maglev fan but they're reasonably quiet from more than a few feet away. Not as pretty, but both of my externals are where I cant see them anyhow, behind or under the tv. $150-200 for the Cavalry vs $599 for the Tenbox. Granted Cavalry has some of the worst tech support on the planet, but you could buy 3-4 of them for the same price. If the unit works out of the box and still works a few months later, chances are its going to run a long time.

Some folks are okay with paying extra for hand holding tech support, attractive packaging and the appearance of higher quality.

I think that before I'd spend $600 on this, I'd just buy 3 more HR's, get more storage, six more tuners, and a lot better spread on single points of failure.

Plus as mentioned, if they're using Enterprise disk drives, thats a giant mistake in this implementation and this product in mirroring or striping mode will have about half the MTBF of a single disk external.

[Ken S]

Wow a review without ever seeing the device and even knowing what the components are. You also ignored two of the real big differentiators between drive enclosures.

1. Power Supply - A better power supply can mean a world of difference in longevity and reliability.

2. Drive Controller - A cheap board with low-end controller chips is going to be more likely to have issues...both in performance, reliability and longevity.

No one bothers to touch on these factors and then they wonder why the $12 enclosure they got crapped out after 3.5 months.

Are they using top-of-the-line stuff in the TenBox? I don't know, but it is a possibility that should be considered before slamming the device or writing reviews based on guesses.

[Rich]

The Tenbox website states: "Best warranty and support". How is three years better than the five that Seagate offers?

The other thing that bothers me is the 2TB and 3TB versions. I have two Cavalry 2TBs hooked up to two 20-700s and when either reaches about "25% Availability", the HR slows down very noticeably. I've never had the nerve to fill one completely up, but I have a feeling that, at least, the 20s won't support more than 1.5TBs.

I almost bought a 3TB Tenbox when Earl was posting about them. Pondered for a while and decided that I would much rather have more HRs and smaller eSATAs. I don't remember what the 3TB cost at the time, but it costs $1299 now as does the 2TB Tenbox, which is kind of odd. I've never regretted my decision not to buy one. But at the time, my heart was filled with lust and it took a lot for me not to buy one.

I never saw them advertised on the forum. Earl had a really positive opinion of them and that was why I almost bought one.

Rich

[t_h]

Wow a review without ever seeing the device and even knowing what the components are. It is a possibility that should be considered before slamming the device or writing reviews based on guesses.

My humblest apologies for offering some insight based on my considerable experience with disk and storage systems.

For what its worth, I didnt guess. I read their marketing literature and drew conclusions based on fairly clear statements made therein. And as we all know, the marketing literature is usually a little better than the reality.

They say they're using maglev fans. I think Sunon owns the patent on maglev, although I think they license it to some other makers. However, there are plenty of high reliability, low noise fans at a similar price range.

They say they have a 3 year disk warranty. Seagate offers a 5 year warranty on their OEM drives, Hitachi and WD offer 3 year. I'm presuming they're using one of the "big three" disk manufacturers products and not some crappy lower tier drive.

They note their disks are "low power, low temp", which is the realm of WD's greenpower.

Their description I quoted above as to the error recovery limits matches well with the WD RE2-GP drives "RAID-specific time-limited error recovery (TLER) - Pioneered by WD, this feature prevents drive fallout caused by the extended hard drive error-recovery processes common to desktop drives."

That function however is limited to use in raid 5 or better arrangements and is not valid for raid 0 or raid 1. It is a very bad idea to use an "enterprise" firmware drive in a non parity raid configuration. But I can see how an integrator could look at "server grade / enterprise reliability" and want to pony up a lot more money for what seems to be a better drive, and miss the part where you need a parity setup to take advantage of the benefits.

Perhaps you can point out the statements I made that you disagree with and how I drew that conclusion in error or absence of data?

Your points about power supplies and disk controller chips are well made, although I dont think I offered a comparison between a $12 enclosure and the tenbox.

The cavalry box is a cheap product backed with almost no support...but its less than 1/3 the cost. Thats a big difference to make up with a power supply and a controller chip.

I'd say the likely better tech support from tenbox would make up the difference, but this isnt a product that benefits much from support...as I mentioned its operation is rather binary in nature and when it stops working you simply need another one.

Further, I dont recommend using two drive striping in any configuration. Large disks simply arent that much more expensive than two smaller disks and the more expensive enclosure. And you're buying a much lower MTBF in a two disk configuration.

Disk mirroring certainly provides the potential for better fault tolerance, provided the host doesnt write corrupt data that is then mirrored, or a fault that affects both drives doesnt occur. And it'd be some pretty good high end tech support that could walk a high touch, low tech customer through a disk swap and remirroring operation over the phone.

[Ken S]

Okay...

1. You did guess...the fact that you read some marketing material beforehand still makes what you did a guess. If you have the experience in the industry that you say you have (and I don't doubt it) you know how much value to put into marketing material.

2. You state because they offer a three-year drive warranty that the they must be using a drive that comes with a three-year warranty? Why? They can offer a different warranty term than the others and take on the responsibility of repairs/exchanges. Remember they're warranting the entire box not just the drive. The reality is unless we look inside we don't know what drives they're using...I thought your assertions that they may be using drives better suited for a server were a bit unfair. However, if they are I would believe your analysis to be correct.

3. Low Power/Low Temp - once again marketing drivel. Yes, it could indicate they're using one of the several WD greens...but we can't really be sure. I don't disagree with you at all about using an enterprise model drive in an A/V environment.

4. Striping RAID 0, RAID 1 - I'm not a big fan of these either, especially with the size of drives that are available today. A year or so ago though it was a different story. The HD sweet spot was in the 320GB/500GB area and DirecTV was mostly using MPEG2...so they probably had little choice. Today, if I were them I'd offer 1TB, 1.5 TB and 2 TB with only the 2TB being RAID 0. Yes, it's risky, but some are willing to take that risk to get the capacity. It's especially risky with the HR2x because of its all or nothing method of handling disk errors.

So, while I don't disagree with your analysis I do disagree with how you got there...It read more and more like a review than a discussion of the POSSIBLE items they're using. Perhaps the Tenbox people will tell us what components they're using...or an owner can let us know.

As for the cost...I'm not going to argue... it's high...but to someone that wants a customized solution and if they offer great technical support...it's not horrid. People have been paying a premium for computer cases that have a custom paint jobs for the last few years...or going to Falcon NW or Alienware to get PCs.

When you state the Cavalry is 1/3rd the price you're correct, but that sort of flies in the face of your other points. RAID 0/RAID 1 is cheaper than RAID 5, RAID 10 etc..., but you wouldn't use them because you're worried about data integrity. Wouldn't the same type of analysis go for comparing these enclosures?

I'd be a lot more likely to question the quality of what's going into those enclosures that are basically selling for around $15 - $30 (not including drives). In general they were meant for backups and moving data and not 24x7 operation.

I'm sorry if my comments were overly harsh...I just didn't think it was fair to review their equipment choices without actually being sure of what they are using.
...ken

My humblest apologies for offering some insight based on my considerable experience with disk and storage systems.

For what its worth, I didnt guess. I read their marketing literature and drew conclusions based on fairly clear statements made therein. And as we all know, the marketing literature is usually a little better than the reality.

They say they're using maglev fans. I think Sunon owns the patent on maglev, although I think they license it to some other makers. However, there are plenty of high reliability, low noise fans at a similar price range.

They say they have a 3 year disk warranty. Seagate offers a 5 year warranty on their OEM drives, Hitachi and WD offer 3 year. I'm presuming they're using one of the "big three" disk manufacturers products and not some crappy lower tier drive.

They note their disks are "low power, low temp", which is the realm of WD's greenpower.

Their description I quoted above as to the error recovery limits matches well with the WD RE2-GP drives "RAID-specific time-limited error recovery (TLER) - Pioneered by WD, this feature prevents drive fallout caused by the extended hard drive error-recovery processes common to desktop drives."

That function however is limited to use in raid 5 or better arrangements and is not valid for raid 0 or raid 1. It is a very bad idea to use an "enterprise" firmware drive in a non parity raid configuration. But I can see how an integrator could look at "server grade / enterprise reliability" and want to pony up a lot more money for what seems to be a better drive, and miss the part where you need a parity setup to take advantage of the benefits.

Perhaps you can point out the statements I made that you disagree with and how I drew that conclusion in error or absence of data?

Your points about power supplies and disk controller chips are well made, although I dont think I offered a comparison between a $12 enclosure and the tenbox.

The cavalry box is a cheap product backed with almost no support...but its less than 1/3 the cost. Thats a big difference to make up with a power supply and a controller chip.

I'd say the likely better tech support from tenbox would make up the difference, but this isnt a product that benefits much from support...as I mentioned its operation is rather binary in nature and when it stops working you simply need another one.

Further, I dont recommend using two drive striping in any configuration. Large disks simply arent that much more expensive than two smaller disks and the more expensive enclosure. And you're buying a much lower MTBF in a two disk configuration.

Disk mirroring certainly provides the potential for better fault tolerance, provided the host doesnt write corrupt data that is then mirrored, or a fault that affects both drives doesnt occur. And it'd be some pretty good high end tech support that could walk a high touch, low tech customer through a disk swap and remirroring operation over the phone.

[t_h]

Ken, I think we're largely engaged in what I liked to call violent agreement, with one exception.

To suggest that I've made a 'review' of the product without seeing it is simply setting up a straw man and then knocking it down.

I provided some analysis and comments based on the company's statements about its products features. Either their statements are correct or they arent. If they are, then my comments stand. The company seems to post here and there are people here who own the product. I invite them to share actual experience with the product and whats under the hood.

Past that and speaking generically, I think cheap enclosures are a bad idea. I dont like passively cooled enclosures. I dont think cheap raid setups are a good idea. I think striped 2 disk setups for this application are a bad idea. I think mirrored setups for this application will help provide SOME insulation from physical drive failures, while providing no help if the HR were to corrupt its own data. I think expensive raid setups arent worth it when you can just buy more HR's for less money and improve your fault tolerance of the entire system. And if you have the protection plan, the HW is all directv's to service indefinitely.

Now what'd be really cool is a raid 5 based system with a journaling file system with roll forward and roll back so you could recover from an OS caused corruption, with user hot swappable disks and slots to plug in up to 8 directv tuners. F--- MRV...

I'd pay $600 for that.

[Ken S]

Ken, I think we're largely engaged in what I liked to call violent agreement, with one exception.

To suggest that I've made a 'review' of the product without seeing it is simply setting up a straw man and then knocking it down.

I provided some analysis and comments based on the company's statements about its products features. Either their statements are correct or they arent. If they are, then my comments stand. The company seems to post here and there are people here who own the product. I invite them to share actual experience with the product and whats under the hood.

Past that and speaking generically, I think cheap enclosures are a bad idea. I dont like passively cooled enclosures. I dont think cheap raid setups are a good idea. I think striped 2 disk setups for this application are a bad idea. I think mirrored setups for this application will help provide SOME insulation from physical drive failures, while providing no help if the HR were to corrupt its own data. I think expensive raid setups arent worth it when you can just buy more HR's for less money and improve your fault tolerance of the entire system. And if you have the protection plan, the HW is all directv's to service indefinitely.

Now what'd be really cool is a raid 5 based system with a journaling file system with roll forward and roll back so you could recover from an OS caused corruption, with user hot swappable disks and slots to plug in up to 8 directv tuners. F--- MRV...

I'd pay $600 for that.

I probably came across as too harsh. So, yes we're in agreement about what would work best, and what really doesn't work for this use. I'm sure you understand the difference between what the Tenbox "probably" is and a Cavalry enclosure...many here don't though.

In the world of storage everyone can hit 99.95% reliability...and do it quite cheaply...it's that final .049% that ends up costing a fortune.

BTW, I run with my desktop with a 3Ware RAID card in a RAID 10 configuration with four Raptors. Overkill? Oh, sure, but since moving to that setup I get solid disk transfers and haven't had to reinstall XP in almost five years. More and more I believe most of the OS problems we see relate back to corrupted writes. Somehow I doubt my config will ever become the norm though :)

[Steve]

For me $299 would be the point where I could consider it.

Wd10eacs - $110
Antec Mx-1 - $40
That's $150 for essentially the same thing. I have no doubt the HD in the tenbox is "better", perhaps the case is also "better". But is it really worth the extra $$$?buy.com (http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=206821006&adid=17070&dcaid=17070) has a 1 TB Fantom "G-Force" eSata/USB 2.0 external drive on sale for $99.99 (after $20 rebate), free shipping, no tax in most states. Deal expires 11/21. /steve

[jjohns]

"1. You did guess...the fact that you read some marketing material beforehand still makes what you did a guess. If you have the experience in the industry that you say you have (and I don't doubt it) you know how much value to put into marketing material."

Are you kidding? The fact that you “read some marketing material beforehand still makes what you did a guess.”




How else are you going to get the specifications without actually buying one and running test meters against it? Oh yeah, that’s right. The guy that did the first review got one “free” ahead of anyone. Oh yeah, his opinion is not biased!

Especially compared to the marketing specs which are always overstated.

Good grief. Can it be any more transparent?

[Doug Brott]

I do know that TenBox has worked with both DIRECTV and the drive manufactures to come up with a solution that works in all HR2x configurations. This is a value-add.