DirecTV Tivo -> Dish... some concerns first...

[JeffL]

We've been with DirecTV for a LONG time (12 years or so). Currently use an old Sony SAT-T60 Tivo. It's been flawless for many many years. But with our big screen HD TV I'd like to take the jump and start watching HD TV. Since we have to stay with satellite, this obviously means giving up Tivo (darn DirecTV for moving to their own DVR!). Anyway, been comparing both Dish and DirecTV. Dish's VIP 722 seems like a much better DVR than what DirecTV is offering (true?), so I'm thinking about making the jump to Dish with maybe the Top250+locals+HD. But we have some concerns that I hope you folks can address for us first.

1) We are worried that Tivo's law suit could result in the VIP722's being disabled at some point. I think that the 722's are not explicitly named in original case but you never know. What is the general consensus thoughts on this?

2) It looks like DirecTV is doing pretty regular updates to their DVR software adding features. Does dish do this aggressively too?

3) I am glad that the 722 has the double buffer but I would miss Tivo suggestions. I know DirecTV is trying to address this by having an on-line service for doing kinda the same thing. Any thing comparable for Dish? Anything else a Tivo user should know regarding differences?

4) How is picture quality overall between Dish and DirecTV? We love SciFi channel (Stargate, Atlantis, etc) and are looking forward to having it in HD.

5) It looks like with Dish right now I can get the VIP 722 free with installation (when they say free DVR I assume it would be this one). Does this include the dish itself and a multiswitch? I've read that the Dish 1000.2 is a better dish. For a cloudy/rainy areas (the pacific NW) would this be the best dish to get and would it be free? Looks like they are also giving $39.99x3 off on 1,10, and 20th bill. Any additional deals that are common to sway someone to leave DirecTV?

6) Instead of free installation, is it possible to trade installation for something else? I like doing this kind of stuff myself! Or do they prefer an installer? In either case, does Dish just mail you the hardware? Is the hardware considered leased (just curious how it works if there is a problem with the hardware)

I know this is a lot of questions and I really thank you in advance for your input in helping us decide! After so many years with DirecTV and Tivo this is a big decision for us!

[grooves12]

We've been with DirecTV for a LONG time (12 years or so). Currently use an old Sony SAT-T60 Tivo. It's been flawless for many many years. But with our big screen HD TV I'd like to take the jump and start watching HD TV. Since we have to stay with satellite, this obviously means giving up Tivo (darn DirecTV for moving to their own DVR!). Anyway, been comparing both Dish and DirecTV. Dish's VIP 722 seems like a much better DVR than what DirecTV is offering (true?), so I'm thinking about making the jump to Dish with maybe the Top250+locals+HD. But we have some concerns that I hope you folks can address for us first.

1) We are worried that Tivo's law suit could result in the VIP722's being disabled at some point. I think that the 722's are not explicitly named in original case but you never know. What is the general consensus thoughts on this?

There is no general consensus as for whether Dish or Tivo will win the lawsuits, but I think you will not see them get shut off completely. It does not benefit anyone for that to happen. If Dish wins its business as normal... if Tivo wins I think you would see a licensing agreement prety quickly, although with Dish's negotiating tactics that may not be a given.

2) It looks like DirecTV is doing pretty regular updates to their DVR software adding features. Does dish do this aggressively too?


Not really... the feature set has been pretty much the same for quite some time, although to be fair Dish's stability for its releases tends to be a lot better than DirecTV's.


3) I am glad that the 722 has the double buffer but I would miss Tivo suggestions. I know DirecTV is trying to address this by having an on-line service for doing kinda the same thing. Any thing comparable for Dish? Anything else a Tivo user should know regarding differences?


No, nothing comparable... but do you REALLY not know what you want to watch?? I have more recordings than I can watch as it is... and I never really found Tivo's suggestions too useful. I think you will get over not having them rather quickly... I know I did.


4) How is picture quality overall between Dish and DirecTV? We love SciFi channel (Stargate, Atlantis, etc) and are looking forward to having it in HD.


My father has DirecTV and I have Dish... and I have to give the upper hand to DirecTV. Dish's channels seem to show a bit more compression artificacts on HD channels. But, the HD channels are pretty good overall... SD varies greatly from channel to channel and is pretty poor on many of them on Dish IMO.


5) It looks like with Dish right now I can get the VIP 722 free with installation (when they say free DVR I assume it would be this one). Does this include the dish itself and a multiswitch? I've read that the Dish 1000.2 is a better dish. For a cloudy/rainy areas (the pacific NW) would this be the best dish to get and would it be free? Looks like they are also giving $39.99x3 off on 1,10, and 20th bill. Any additional deals that are common to sway someone to leave DirecTV?

not sure on this one.

6) Instead of free installation, is it possible to trade installation for something else? I like doing this kind of stuff myself! Or do they prefer an installer? In either case, does Dish just mail you the hardware? Is the hardware considered leased (just curious how it works if there is a problem with the hardware)

Not anymore... the installer will bring the hardware with him. The new Dish's are sort of complicated to install and thye don't want their customers messing with them.

I know this is a lot of questions and I really thank you in advance for your input in helping us decide! After so many years with DirecTV and Tivo this is a big decision for us!

I'm pretty happy with Dish, but honestly if I had a choice (I don't have LOS to DirecTV) I would go with DirecTV. In the early days of the HR20 it had a lot of stability issues... but at this point it is almost a wash with the HR20. DirecTV has an edge in picture quality, and doesn't ever seem to have the contract disputes that Dish seems to have on a regular basis, and at this point they have the edge in number of HD channels. The monthly costs are pretty much the same and since you are a longtime customer DTV will probably cut you a break on an HD upgrade if you say the right things.

[boba]

For DISH the 129 is your main satellite for HDTV. In Washington you will probably need a separate 24" dish for good reception on 129.

[rustynails]

I am currently with D but was with E for awhile. I had to go to D because of line of sight issues.
E has the best receiver in the Vip 722. I think it would be more like Tivo. I don't like the Hr21 from D but it does record your shows. I have had no problems with either Dvr.

I think that as far as picture quality and Hd programming I would have to pick D.
If I could go back to E, then I would do so in a heart beat simply because of E's better equipment.

Of couse you will get varying opinions on this matter because people like different things.

[DodgerKing]

I still have a TiVO for my SD TV and an HR20 for my HD TV. When I first got the HR20 I did not like it very much, manly because of familiarity. Now that I use the HR20 much more often than the TiVO, I much prefer the HR20 over the TiVO, from the button short cuts to the ease of turning off and on. The only thing I prefer about the TiVO is the duel buffer.

[BattleZone]

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5) It looks like with Dish right now I can get the VIP 722 free with installation (when they say free DVR I assume it would be this one). Does this include the dish itself and a multiswitch? I've read that the Dish 1000.2 is a better dish. For a cloudy/rainy areas (the pacific NW) would this be the best dish to get and would it be free? Looks like they are also giving $39.99x3 off on 1,10, and 20th bill. Any additional deals that are common to sway someone to leave DirecTV?

As a new customer, you can get, with no upfront equipment fee, leased equipment to get TV to 4 TVs. But there are some limitations: most of Dish's receivers will run 2 TVs, and when getting 4 TVs, you're only going to get 2 receivers. Only one of the receivers can be a DVR. So, if you get HD, you can get one 722 HD-DVR and one 222 HD receiver without paying equipment fees.

The 722 outputs HD to the first TV and down-converts to SD for the second TV, which will be connected via coax cable. The 222 works the same way. The remotes for the 2nd TVs are RF, the TV1 remotes are IR only.

You *can* pay to upgrade your receiver options as a new customer, and a few customers do so. For example, you can pay to upgrade the 222 to a second 722, or you can even upgrade it to a pair of 612 HD-DVRs (these are 2 tuner, 1 TV HD-DVRs, similar to the HD TiVo or HR-20/21s).

Regardless, Dish will only lease you receivers to feed 4 TVs, including the 2nd output on 2-TV receivers, whether you use them or not. Any additional receivers (and dishes/switches required to get them working) must be purchased retail, and will be owned, not leased. This is different from how things are with DirecTV, so can be confusing for folks who are considering the switch.

Because the 129 satellite, where much of the HD content is, is an older, weak, and partially broken satellite, and because the footprint isn't optimal, you'll almost certainly need a separate dish to get 129. So, you'll probably have a Dish 500 picking up 110 and 119, and a second Dish 500 with a single LNB for 129. This setup will feed 2 receivers, including dual tuner receivers. You may still have signal strength issues with 129; some folks have purchased their own 24" or even 30" dishes to raise 129 signal strength in the PNW. A replacement satellite is scheduled for launch at the beginning of 2009, which, if all goes well, means it should be up and running by next spring.

6) Instead of free installation, is it possible to trade installation for something else? I like doing this kind of stuff myself! Or do they prefer an installer? In either case, does Dish just mail you the hardware? Is the hardware considered leased (just curious how it works if there is a problem with the hardware)

I know this is a lot of questions and I really thank you in advance for your input in helping us decide! After so many years with DirecTV and Tivo this is a big decision for us!

Unless you order through a local retailer, who has the ability to work with you on this, you'll have to let an installer do the installation. The modern equipment is much more complex than the older stuff, and it's easy to make a couple of simple mistakes that can cause hours of frustration and even equipment damage. If you don't work with it all the time, you're better off letting someone who does do the work.