Stick with my TIVO box or go with the new Plus HD DVR

[Davis5150]

I recently stopped my Directv service for 5 months, and I am now going to get it back up and running.

I called DTV to schedule the appt., and they said they would upgrade my HD DVR for free. I thought..."sure, sounds great!" I'll get all the new HD channels, plus having the benefit of the dual tuner, just like my TIVO box.

Now I have been reading about all the software issues, bugs, glitches, etc. that are associated with the new HD DVR. I am definitely reading more negatives than positives, which scares me.

I really liked my TIVO unit...It never missed recording something (except for when there was an outage due to a storm in the area). I really want to have access to all the new HD programming, but I don't want that to be accompanied with all the headaches I am reading about.

Can somebody please let me know if all of these software issues have been ironed out??

I really appreciate it!

-Chris

[Grentz]

I had Tivo for years and loved it. Now I have the HR21 HD-DVR and love it.

Yes it has had a few glitches, but overall it has been very good. There also are many improvements over the Tivo box that are very nice and now just common place for me (annoying when I go back to Tivo in fact).

The software releases are coming so quickly that most bugs are being ironed out quickly, and overall there are not that many anymore, if any, that you will see.

[Davis5150]

Thanks, Grentz. Maybe I'm just worrying over nothing...:)

[somekevinguy]

I had my D* Tivo since they first came out and I loved it and read some of the same stuff about HD DVR problems and had the same worries but I love my HR21s. I haven't had any issues except for a couple of blank recordings and I haven't had any for a while. I think it is 10 times better than my old Tivo not to mention HD is awesome. You won't be sorry. I got my first one and then bought another one a couple of months later I liked it so much. There are a few things I liked better on the Tivo but the benefits of the new boxes far out weigh them.

[marksman]

I have owned Tivo boxes since they first came on the market. Still have a couple in use.

I really enjoy my 3 HR-20s a lot, and could not honestly say you will have any problems. Most people who like TiVo do just fine with the HR boxes.

Got nothing but good things to say.

[lostman72]

You have to understand that a site like this you will find people telling you there problems with there HR**-*** . You won't hear from all the happy people. And I am happy with my HR20-700 and my HR21-700.

[Michael D'Angelo]

:welcome_s to DBSTalk, Davis5150!

lostman72 is correct. You will always hear about the problems and hardly ever hear about the good things.

I was a very long time TiVo user and loved them. But I upgraded to the HR20's as soon as they were released and I am glad I did. They are great and they have a lot of great features that TiVo didn't plus all the HD channels.

I have 3 HR20's (two since 9/06 and one since 5/07) and I have an HR21 (since 09/07).

The first few months when the unit was released there was some problems but since then I have a total of three bad recordings between all four units.

[Jlg]

I am currently using both a Tivo HR10-250 and a DTV HR20-700. I seldom use the Tivo anymore except for backup, but each time I do it reminds me how much better Tivo is at user interface. But the Tivo won't do the mpeg-4 channels so there's not much choice. One thing I'm really liking about the Tivo at the moment is there is no advertisements in the guide!
There are many problems with the new boxes, but still, you have to have a one to get the non-broadcast highdef channels.
When they deliver your new box, they won't pick up the old one, so you could keep both. It's an extra $5/month but worth it for me.

[jwd45244]

Tivo vs. HR2x User Interface

It is what you get used to. The analogy I use is that in my family we have 3 cars. Basic driving functions are the same but things like AC and radio controls are different. Once you figure them out they are all usable.

I was a bing TIVO fan but now I think the Tivo interface is "cartoony". Again, just my opinion. You Mileage May Vary.

[bradfjoh]

I'd be VERY leery. I had Tivo for years and years. I switched to the HR20 about a year ago. The first six months, I wondered, what was I worried about? This isn't that bad, it took some getting used to and then came the National Release (NR) of 22b and I became lucky enough to get missed recordings every couple of weeks or a month.

Well, then NR 22d came out and I thought surely, D* would try to correct the missed/grey recordings... Nope. Only made it worse. Now I get them 3-4x a week and have NO way of knowing when you won't get a show recorded as you expected.

Until D* can correct the continual missed/black/grey recordings, I would not recommend it to anyone. There is even a sticky thread about all the missed recordings and a special site was created for people to submit all their grey/blank recordings so that D* can get a better handle on it. That was about 2 months ago all with no luck in getting it corrected.

Thankfully, I kept my HR10-250 -- it hasn't missed a single recording. I now have to double up on everything.

Other annoyances with the HR20 - the 50 pass season limit. With 4 people in our family, it hits the 50 limit pretty quickly and we have to adjust our Season passes each summer/fall to adjust for the new schedule.

So, what I guess I'm trying to say - it's REAL NICE to get the new HD channels, but it STINKS that you have no clue if your DVR will record what you ask it to. I'd be very weary about thinking your new DVR will perform how you expect it to.

[harsh]

The "happy" part about most HD programming is that if you wait for a little while, it will likely be on again. You just need to check your recordings before the next one comes along.

[RunnerFL]

I'd be VERY leery. I had Tivo for years and years. I switched to the HR20 about a year ago. The first six months, I wondered, what was I worried about? This isn't that bad, it took some getting used to and then came the National Release (NR) of 22b and I became lucky enough to get missed recordings every couple of weeks or a month.

Well, then NR 22d came out and I thought surely, D* would try to correct the missed/grey recordings... Nope. Only made it worse. Now I get them 3-4x a week and have NO way of knowing when you won't get a show recorded as you expected.

Until D* can correct the continual missed/black/grey recordings, I would not recommend it to anyone. There is even a sticky thread about all the missed recordings and a special site was created for people to submit all their grey/blank recordings so that D* can get a better handle on it. That was about 2 months ago all with no luck in getting it corrected.

Thankfully, I kept my HR10-250 -- it hasn't missed a single recording. I now have to double up on everything.

Other annoyances with the HR20 - the 50 pass season limit. With 4 people in our family, it hits the 50 limit pretty quickly and we have to adjust our Season passes each summer/fall to adjust for the new schedule.

So, what I guess I'm trying to say - it's REAL NICE to get the new HD channels, but it STINKS that you have no clue if your DVR will record what you ask it to. I'd be very weary about thinking your new DVR will perform how you expect it to.


Different users see different results. Just because 1 user is missing recordings doesn't mean that another user will. I think my HR2X's [4 of them] have missed 2 recordings between them in the past year while my HR10's, when I had them, were missing that many or more per month.

Davis5150, the only way to know for sure if you'll see problems or not is to take the plunge. If by some strange chance you do get an HR2X that misses recordings call DirecTV and have them replace it with another, they'll do that with very little problem, and you should be fine.

Like others have said before you'll see far more people complain about the unit than praise it. The number of people having problems is small compared to those of us not having problems.

The decision is yours but man do some of these new HD channels look great! And the HD channels that show up on the HR10's will be going away soon.

[Redlinetire]

You have to understand that a site like this you will find people telling you there problems with there HR**-*** . You won't hear from all the happy people. And I am happy with my HR20-700 and my HR21-700.


But if you pop over to the Dish side of this forum, you don't hear a lot of people complaining about missed recordings - so what does that say? Most comparos I've read seem to indicate the Dish hardware (except the 612?) are more reliable than the DirecTV equipment.

I think you hear a fair amount from both sides on this forum and some people have had no issues, some have had a ton and quite a few of us have intermittent issues.

I have an HR-20 and haven't been able to record local channels (without getting a blank) since January. Now it has spread to more channels (and more people) with the latest national release. I don't consider that an improvement.

Back in February I bought a TiVo S3, hooked it up to an OTA antenna and use that to record my locals. I don't like the interface, but it does reliably record which is something I can't say for the HR-20.

But as bradfjoh said, I LOVE the HD, I LOVE the sports and I much prefer the interface over the TiVo. I don't plan on leaving DirecTV anytime soon. But I also don't expect it to record things reliably anymore.

So I guess what I'm saying is that it depends on what you're looking for in the service...

[Davis5150]

:welcome_s to DBSTalk, Davis5150!

lostman72 is correct. You will always hear about the problems and hardly ever hear about the good things.

I was a very long time TiVo user and loved them. But I upgraded to the HR20's as soon as they were released and I am glad I did. They are great and they have a lot of great features that TiVo didn't plus all the HD channels.

I have 3 HR20's (two since 9/06 and one since 5/07) and I have an HR21 (since 09/07).

The first few months when the unit was released there was some problems but since then I have a total of three bad recordings between all four units.

Thanks, everybody, for your posts. And thank you, Michael, for the welcome. I will bookmark this site and use it if I ever need to.

I am really looking forward to the HD programming on my new Sony Bravia 40" LCD, and I am even thinking of buying a PS3 for my BluRay player. Football season can't come soon enough either!

[joesigg]

I recently stopped my Directv service for 5 months, and I am now going to get it back up and running.

I called DTV to schedule the appt., and they said they would upgrade my HD DVR for free. I thought..."sure, sounds great!" I'll get all the new HD channels, plus having the benefit of the dual tuner, just like my TIVO box.

Now I have been reading about all the software issues, bugs, glitches, etc. that are associated with the new HD DVR. I am definitely reading more negatives than positives, which scares me.

I really liked my TIVO unit...It never missed recording something (except for when there was an outage due to a storm in the area). I really want to have access to all the new HD programming, but I don't want that to be accompanied with all the headaches I am reading about.

Can somebody please let me know if all of these software issues have been ironed out??

I really appreciate it!

-Chris

Your old Tivo unit won't pick up all the HD channels from the new sat?

[Thaedron]

Your old Tivo unit won't pick up all the HD channels from the new sat?

No, the only DVRs that can receive the new HD channels coming from the D10 and soon D11 satallites are the HR2X DVRs.

[joesigg]

That's what I was trying to say. If the new sat is an issue, he should go with the HR21.

[rapjrhb]

I agree with whoever said to take the plunge and upgrade but also keep the Tivo hooked up if possible. I have been very happy with my HR20 but there have been some infrequent problems (blank and missed recordings). My Tivo in the other room has correctly recorded every time the HR20 has had a blank recording, missed recording, etc. If I didn't have the backup, I think I would naturally be more exasperated with the unit and less likely to recommend it to others. As it is now, I'm very happy with the HR20 and HD content.

[TimelessTV]

I just made the switch from a high def TIVO box (HR10-250) to the new HR-2x boxes (one HR-20 and one HR-21.) I guess I'm still in the honeymoon phase (I've only had them for 3 months) but I'm very pleased so far.

- Haven't missed any recordings (according to many on this forum it is just a matter of time until the HR-2x will begin missing recordings regularly ... so I'll have to wait and see. But for now I'm good.)
- The interface is fine. I was so worked up about the non-Tivo interface from reading various online forums that I stayed away from the HR-2x for a long time. Now that I've moved I'm really wondering what all the fuss was about. Sure, the interface is different, but it works and I've found it to be intuitive. Also, there are some things I like better about the new interface (e.g., hit record twice for season pass, etc.)
- I like how easy it is to add an external drive (1TB Cavalry eSATA drive.) Literally, all I did was plug it in, start up the HR-21 and it was ready to go.
- I like the fact that you can keep watching TV while you are doing other things (by the way, some really hate this feature)
- I don't miss dual live buffers. I understand why people miss this feature, but since I'm not a sports fan this isn't an issue for me. I think I'm in the minority opinion on this one, so your views may be different.
- In my opinion, the remote is ugly, but having built in RF is cool. This isn't a factor for me since I have a harmony remote that I bought since the TIVO didn't have RF.
- Finally, for me, content rules and access to the new HD channels trumps all other "features" of my old Tivo box

By the way, I was originally planning to keep my TIVO. But after a couple of months I shut it off and replaced it with a new HR-21.

[Grentz]

But if you pop over to the Dish side of this forum, you don't hear a lot of people complaining about missed recordings - so what does that say? Most comparos I've read seem to indicate the Dish hardware (except the 612?) are more reliable than the DirecTV equipment.

I think you hear a fair amount from both sides on this forum and some people have had no issues, some have had a ton and quite a few of us have intermittent issues.

I have an HR-20 and haven't been able to record local channels (without getting a blank) since January. Now it has spread to more channels (and more people) with the latest national release. I don't consider that an improvement.

Back in February I bought a TiVo S3, hooked it up to an OTA antenna and use that to record my locals. I don't like the interface, but it does reliably record which is something I can't say for the HR-20.

But as bradfjoh said, I LOVE the HD, I LOVE the sports and I much prefer the interface over the TiVo. I don't plan on leaving DirecTV anytime soon. But I also don't expect it to record things reliably anymore.

So I guess what I'm saying is that it depends on what you're looking for in the service...



Everyone's experience varies and almost every new software release gains more reliability and fixes any little bugs people may be having. The HR2x series are getting better and better.

Hard to compare to Tivo or the Dish units that have been out for years. I have news for everyone, Tivo sucked hard in the beginning. The guide was slower than a slug and the software was buggy. But as more andm ore releases came out things improved and now everyone compares to it as the gold standard.

Frankly the HR2x series shows many of the things that are outdated or missing in Tivo. Things that you get used to and miss when going away from the new HR2x units. For example:
-Asking you which recording to stop when you change channels with 2 things recording
-Network functions built in without hacking
-Faster menus and responsiveness
-Mini Guide
-Slip to move ahead (I like slip better, but it is a personal preference and the new HR2x offer both slip and skip)
-One touch series link (season pass)

[bonscott87]

But if you pop over to the Dish side of this forum, you don't hear a lot of people complaining about missed recordings - so what does that say? Most comparos I've read seem to indicate the Dish hardware (except the 612?) are more reliable than the DirecTV equipment.


No offense to the Dish forums here but they are pretty light in traffic. Satguys is the main Dish forum and you can read for days about complaints. It's just a matter of traffic. Satguys is more Dish centered while DBSTalk gets most of the DirecTV traffic. The fact is that forums like this will be filled with complaints, it's the main reason why they exist. One only needs to look at the Tivo forum to see tons of complaints about the Tivo as well.

Anyway...

[tabraha]

No offense to the Dish forums here but they are pretty light in traffic. Satguys is the main Dish forum and you can read for days about complaints. It's just a matter of traffic. Satguys is more Dish centered while DBSTalk gets most of the DirecTV traffic. The fact is that forums like this will be filled with complaints, it's the main reason why they exist. One only needs to look at the Tivo forum to see tons of complaints about the Tivo as well.

Anyway...

True but I like you have been in this forum a long time (longer than my screen name reflects, I forgot my old ID and login!) and this forum has absolutely exploded with traffic due to the HR20 coming along and not being ready for primetime upon it's initial release. It's tons better now, and I'm happy for that but I was among the early folks with the DirecTivo unit and the # of issues I had with it were miniscule in comparison.

I think the HR2x's are at a level now that I would leave the Tivo, especially if you're ready to enjoy HD! I would absolutely not waste my time if I didn't own or plan to own a HDTV though. I even prefer the HR-20 remote over the sacred peanut many love. If you get to keep your Tivo box for another room and are getting the HD DVR do it!

[Kansas Zephyr]

If you want all the HD that D* can provide there's no choice, you need a HR2x.

I'm pleased with my HR20s. I'm not "upset" that I use them. But, they are not as reliable as my HR10-250 or R10.

I can't remember issues with the TiVos. Not, to say there were none, but that they were infrequent enough that I don't remember anything major or recurring.

The HR20s, on the other hand are not horrible, at all. But let's be honest, they are not as stable as the HR10-250.

Granted the D* boxes have much more plentiful features. I'm not one of those "give me TiVo or give me death" posters.

But, the most critical basic function of being able to watch live and DVR TV is still better (i.e. it is on and working...not rebooting...not scrambling the OTA after a reset...etc.) on the HR10-250 and the R10.

[MikeekiM]

If you want all the HD that D* can provide there's no choice, you need a HR2x.

I'm pleased with my HR20s. I'm not "upset" that I use them. But, they are not as reliable as my HR10-250 or R10.

I can't remember issues with the TiVos. Not, to say there were none, but that they were infrequent enough that I don't remember anything major or recurring.

The HR20s, on the other hand are not horrible, at all. But let's be honest, they are not as stable as the HR10-250.

Granted the D* boxes have much more plentiful features. I'm not one of those "give me TiVo or give me death" posters.

But, the most critical basic function of being able to watch live and DVR TV is still better (i.e. it is on and working...not rebooting...not scrambling the OTA after a reset...etc.) on the HR10-250 and the R10.

Well said... This is pretty much my opinion as well...

1. I am pleased with my HR20 and HR21s... I'd even say I am "happy" with them...

2. There were some serious growing pains early on with the HR20, but many of the issues have been addressed, thanks to regular updates to the firmware (to me, this shows a dedication and determination by DTV to improve the platform)... Yes, there is still some more maturity that needs to happen to make it more solid...but it is 90% there in my opinion.

3. I am also not a "give me TiVo or give me death" person... I do love my TiVo though...

4. HD is a thing of beauty... Go for it!

[Nicholsen]

I would support keeping a TIVO as a back-up as well. I am not a big fan of the HR21, which is the unit currently shipping. I use it because, and only because, that is the only way to access the new MPEG4 channels. I use the TIVO to record HD on OTA and SD on the D* dish. IMHO, the best feature of the TIVO HR10-250 is that it works reliably. (It may have had some issues in the past, but it is solid as a rock now.)

I think there is a serious split of opinion regarding the HR2x units. A large group is pretty happy and wonders why people like me just don't get it. Another large group is pretty unhappy and sees some big problems. They wonder how anyone can argue that the HR21 is actually better than the TIVO unit. (I won't estimate the size of each group, as that is a major bone of contention on the board)

A chorus of "mine works fine" from people on the board won't be much comfort if your HR21 doesn't work properly for you. If all it took to solve the typical HR2x problem was a replacement unit, that would be great. However, I think that some users have had difficulties that can't be fixed with just a box swap.

Get a good install with new cables and install a UPS for your DVRs.

If it was me, I would seriously think about getting an HD TIVO HR10-250 (they are now available used at very reasonably prices) and buying an outside antenna for OTA, to supplement my set-up. The $5 a month charge will seem like a bargain if you come home and the HR21 has missed a recording of your favorite show.

[Ozam]

Make no mistake about it the HR21 is NOT a TIVO. However, it works just fine. The best analogy I can provide is to mp3 players. What makes the ipod so successful is its software... its usability...the same goes for TIVO.

If the HR21 didn't give me access to tons more HD content I would drop it in a second. However, the additional content more than offsets any deficiencies in usefulness.

[Jeff5614]

I had TIVO for years and had considered moving on a couple of years ago but then I found this site and read all the negatives about Direct's DVR's and decided not to. I finally couldn't stand it anymore and upgraded to an HR21-100 about 3 months ago. So far, the only issue I had was the unit locking up once and a reboot fixing that. Other than that it has performed flawlessly. It is a little different than what you're used to with TIVO but nothing that makes me regret changing.

[bidger]

I've found no good reason(s) to limit myself to one DVR platform. That is something, however, that each user needs to resolve for themselves.

[wingrider01]

Make no mistake about it the HR21 is NOT a TIVO. However, it works just fine. The best analogy I can provide is to mp3 players. What makes the ipod so successful is its software... its usability...the same goes for TIVO.

If the HR21 didn't give me access to tons more HD content I would drop it in a second. However, the additional content more than offsets any deficiencies in usefulness.

Again, different opinions, best thing that happened here was the 10 was replaced with a 20, the number of screams heard throughout the house because Americian Idol or dora the epxlorer is unwatchable because the 10 did a self-induced restart have dropped to nothing. The last 10 is starting to exhibet the same issues so it will be going the way of the rest of them before to long, but it sits in the garage hooked up to a set out there so it maybe a while yet.

Find the other mp3 players on the market just as easy to use as the ipod, so not a valid analog for some people either.

More content + no self-induced restarts + VOD + no hacking needd for basic features + MRV rsn = winner

[jmrwiseguy]

Personally I wouldn't own a non-Tivo DVR...but, I don't think I should stop others from owning one. :rolleyes:

[houskamp]

simple question: Do you want any HD programing from Directv at the end of the year (as well as any sports packages)?
If you do you will have to have the newer recievers as Directv is moving all HD programing to mpeg4..
by the way my 2 HR20s and HR21 have been solid..

[Nicholsen]

simple question: Do you want any HD programing from Directv at the end of the year (as well as any sports packages)?
If you do you will have to have the newer recievers as Directv is moving all HD programing to mpeg4..
by the way my 2 HR20s and HR21 have been solid..

I guess your position is that D* is making us an offer we can't refuse. I have been with D* 9-10 years now, and have talked it up to my friends. I like the D* programming package. I was very happy with my Sony Ultimate TV (the Microsoft implementation of a DVR). I was also very happy with the TIVO HR10-250. I am truly disappointed with the HR21. This is not about Tivo adoration. It is about my general disappointment with the features, interface and reliability of the HR21 software.

If the NFL Sunday Ticket were available though the evil cable empire, I would simply buy a new HD TIVO box with cable cards and move on. I would happily give up "expanded" HD content (like the HD food channel) to get an HD DVR that records reliably and has a better feature set (DLB and slo-mo).

Given that cable is not a good option for me, I will continue to run the faithful HR10-250 (with OTA) as my primary DVR, and hope that a better D* DVR is in the pipeline.

[rustynails]

I have had E's Vip722 and now have D's Hr21 and it is like night or day. The 722 was far superior to the 21 in regards to the user interface and features. Having said this, I have had no problems with recordings with either box.

[dinotheo]

I am not as forgiving as some folks on here. The comments of....my HR20 has only missed X recordings would be unacceptable to me. Even if X was 1. A DVR by its nature should do 1 thing. And that is to record. Sure some of the features are nice. MRV coming will be nice, DLB would be nice, the MPEG4 channels are nice, etc... but if it misses recordings, what is the point? Since the 22d software my receivers are crap. (I've had missed recordings, blank recordings and 771 errors ad nauseum)
You can have arguments all day over which interface is better. That is purely a matter of choice. (FWIW, I like the TiVo better) I've had HR10-250's since they were released April 2004. (I was number 1 on the preorder list at my Tweeter) I don't ever recall my HR10-250's (I had 3 at one point) missing a recording. I still have two that are my emergency receivers for when the HR20/1 inevitably miss a recording. I also have an HTPC hooked up on my other main viewing room to stream shows off the internet for missed recordings.
To answer the OP question.....you pretty much have no choice. You have yo have an HR20/21 if you want HD.

[bonscott87]

I guess your position is that D* is making us an offer we can't refuse.

Well, you can refuse it. But the fact of the matter is that if you want HD from DirecTV then you have to use an HR20/21. Period. Like it or not, end of story.

For almost 2 years now my HR20 has never missed a recording and neither has my nearly year old HR21. I have had several stand alone Tivo's and DirecTivo's over the past 8 years as well. I could care less what the UI is of my DVR, so long as it does it's job. And the HR2x does it's job. If it didn't I'd be going to Uverse or cable.

[Grentz]

I have had E's Vip722 and now have D's Hr21 and it is like night or day. The 722 was far superior to the 21 in regards to the user interface and features. Having said this, I have had no problems with recordings with either box.

and that is a personal preference type opinion.

For me the Dish DVRs are horrible to use and the menus look like something out of the 90s IMO.

[Flyrx7]

Football season can't come soon enough either!

Seeing as you're a sports fan, just be aware that you can't switch tuners between 2 games and rewind, etc., as you can with the Tivo unit. Otherwise known as Dual Live Buffers (DLB).
Your sporting experience will look better with the HD content, but the experience will be a bit lackluster due to the missing DLB feature.

Regards,
Frank

[MikeekiM]

Seeing as you're a sports fan, just be aware that you can't switch tuners between 2 games and rewind, etc., as you can with the Tivo unit. Otherwise known as Dual Live Buffers (DLB).
Your sporting experience will look better with the HD content, but the experience will be a bit lackluster due to the missing DLB feature.

Regards,
Frank

My understanding (I am not a big DLB user so I cannot confirm this), is that there is a workaround... Something about recording both, and then you can swap between the two?

I don't know the details... Maybe someone who uses this workaround can comment... I have heard it is an inconvenience to press record for the two shows, but that it is a viable/workable work around...

[jodyguercio]

My understanding (I am not a big DLB user so I cannot confirm this), is that there is a workaround... Something about recording both, and then you can swap between the two?

I don't know the details... Maybe someone who uses this workaround can comment... I have heard it is an inconvenience to press record for the two shows, but that it is a viable/workable work around...

Thats the workaround for the lack of DLB. It works fine, kind of a hassle, but if you want to watch two things at once and be able to go back and forth, thats the only workaround.

For the OP, I had a HR10-250 for years and had a death grip on it until I got the HR20-100. Loved it from day one. I kept the 10-250 in service until about two or three months ago dont remember and swapped it for a HR21/AM21 combo. Kind of like ripping off a Band-Aid, just gotta do it.

[MikeekiM]

Thats the workaround for the lack of DLB. It works fine, kind of a hassle, but if you want to watch two things at once and be able to go back and forth, thats the only workaround.

For the OP, I had a HR10-250 for years and had a death grip on it until I got the HR20-100. Loved it from day one. I kept the 10-250 in service until about two or three months ago dont remember and swapped it for a HR21/AM21 combo. Kind of like ripping off a Band-Aid, just gotta do it.

Warning: This comment is coming from a non-DLB user... So may not be a very sympathetic or knowledgeable response... :)

Sounds like a very viable workaround... I can absolutely understand people's frustration with losing something that they used to be able to do... But isn't this situation a pretty good one? What is the downside here? People already have to manipulate the remote to switch from program to program to flip between the two sports games... There is a small investment in the beginning to "set things up"... but the capability (I was about to call it a "feature", but stopped myself), is there, right?

I know I am treading on very dangerous territory here, based on the number of posts (and the passion within them) in the DLB thread... But I would think this would be completely unacceptable if there was no capability to do this... But there does appear to be that capability...

Anyway, just a comment from a non-DLB user...

Please...no flames... I really have not kept up with this issue at all...

[Flyrx7]

I don't want to steer this thread off-topic, just wanted to point out to a sports fan that DLB is not available. The information and posts concerning DLB should be saved for here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=118382

Pack a lunch, hell, pack dinner and a snack, it'll take some time to get caught up from the beginning :)

Regards,
Frank

[MikeekiM]

I don't want to steer this thread off-topic, just wanted to point out to a sports fan that DLB is not available. The information and posts concerning DLB should be saved for here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=118382

Pack a lunch, hell, pack dinner and a snack, it'll take some time to get caught up from the beginning :)

Regards,
Frank

:D

Good suggestion Frank!

[Nicholsen]

Thats the workaround for the lack of DLB. It works fine, kind of a hassle, but if you want to watch two things at once and be able to go back and forth, thats the only workaround.

For the OP, I had a HR10-250 for years and had a death grip on it until I got the HR20-100. Loved it from day one. I kept the 10-250 in service until about two or three months ago dont remember and swapped it for a HR21/AM21 combo. Kind of like ripping off a Band-Aid, just gotta do it.

We only have to "take the pain" because D* took away a really good option, that worked reliably, that many people still prefer. I can live without the cute TIVO interface. However, I really don't like the HR21, and would not recommend it to a friend.

Choice is good. I use Firefox as a browser, not IE. I don't really care if other people use Firefox (or agree with me that its look and feel is "better"), but I want to make that choice for myself. D* should give its customers choice on the DVR side.

[TigerDriver]

I recently stopped my Directv service for 5 months, and I am now going to get it back up and running.

I called DTV to schedule the appt., and they said they would upgrade my HD DVR for free. I thought..."sure, sounds great!" I'll get all the new HD channels, plus having the benefit of the dual tuner, just like my TIVO box.

Now I have been reading about all the software issues, bugs, glitches, etc. that are associated with the new HD DVR. I am definitely reading more negatives than positives, which scares me.

I really liked my TIVO unit...It never missed recording something (except for when there was an outage due to a storm in the area). I really want to have access to all the new HD programming, but I don't want that to be accompanied with all the headaches I am reading about.

Can somebody please let me know if all of these software issues have been ironed out??

I really appreciate it!

-Chris

Do the upgrade but keep your HR10-250.

Although my D* DVRs are improving, after my HR20 recorded a gray screen for the last quarter of the Super Bowl, I now follow the principle "if it absolutely must record, put it on the HR10-250." There are fewer HD channels on the Tivo unit, but, on the other hand, the new HD channels are cable-based and therefore generally re-run their programs several times during the week, so if your recorder botches something, it'll come around again soon.

[L2BENGTREK]

Football season can't come soon enough either!

Last season was my first with HD....all I can say is OMG! I'm sure you'll be the same!

Yeah, I've had a couple of glitches here and there with my HR20's , but they've been very few and far between since my upgrade in March, '07.

I was Tivo-biased too, but I've gotten used to it. Pro's outweigh the con's in my book.

The fact of this matter is.......if you want to get all of Direct's HD channels, you have to get an HR-2*!

[Ozam]

The decision really is pretty simple. If you want HD via Directv and a pvr you must get the HR21. Most of us would prefer a TIVO, but that option has effectively been taken away. The HR21 is okay...it will do the basics just fine...it is just not as good a device as a TIVO.

[Nicholsen]

Again, different opinions, best thing that happened here was the 10 was replaced with a 20, the number of screams heard throughout the house because Americian Idol or dora the epxlorer is unwatchable because the 10 did a self-induced restart have dropped to nothing. The last 10 is starting to exhibet the same issues so it will be going the way of the rest of them before to long, but it sits in the garage hooked up to a set out there so it maybe a while yet.

Find the other mp3 players on the market just as easy to use as the ipod, so not a valid analog for some people either.

More content + no self-induced restarts + VOD + no hacking needd for basic features + MRV rsn = winner

The HR21 has no Dual Live Buffers ("DLB"), nearly useless slo-mo, a poorly implemented skip function and (at least for many users) does not record reliably. That is not a "winner" in my book.

My Tivo HR10-250 is not hacked in any way and has a great feature set. You have to push a few buttons on the remote for both the HR10-250 and the HR21 to enable the 30 second skip function. That is hardly a "hack." Is there some other basic DVR function that the HR10-250 lacks?

Personally, I consider DLB and slo-mo to be basic features. The TIVO box has those, and they work really well. The HR21 has no DLB, which is the subject of a very long thread on the board, and the slo-mo is, IMHO, unusable.

Great product design and great software are elegant. Apple has that going for it, as does TIVO. It's OK to choose to go another way, but lets not pretend that the alternative is just as good when the evidence is to the contrary.

[wingrider01]

The HR21 has no Dual Live Buffers ("DLB"), nearly useless slo-mo, a poorly implemented skip function and (at least for many users) does not record reliably. That is not a "winner" in my book.

My Tivo HR10-250 is not hacked in any way and has a great feature set. You have to push a few buttons on the remote for both the HR10-250 and the HR21 to enable the 30 second skip function. That is hardly a "hack." Is there some other basic DVR function that the HR10-250 lacks?

Personally, I consider DLB and slo-mo to be basic features. The TIVO box has those, and they work really well. The HR21 has no DLB, which is the subject of a very long thread on the board, and the slo-mo is, IMHO, unusable.

Great product design and great software are elegant. Apple has that going for it, as does TIVO. It's OK to choose to go another way, but lets not pretend that the alternative is just as good when the evidence is to the contrary.

Again matter of preference, the DLB is important to you, to me it is not worth the powder and shot to blow it away. I prefer the way the skip function is implemented in the HR2X series and the fact you have a choice on how to set it up. Outside of choosing which format for the 30 sec skip you want, what 2 buttons? On the remote I use (came with the HR2X, there is a single button that always initiated the 30 sec skip, no twp button setup. Slo-Mo, must be a sports thing, have never used it in day to day viewing of TV.

Again "basic dvr functions" are in the eye of the beholder - the biggest basic dvr function that that the Hr10 lacked was native networking, to get it networked you had to hack the software

I am not pretending in any way shape or form, if you think that I am then you are way off base in your opinion, you may consider that but I do not. I do not consider the clunky windows 3.0 type format that the HR10 has in any way shape or form of being "elegant". In the time I have used both the HR10 (still have 1 running in the garage) and the HR2X series I vastly prefer the capabilities of the 2X series over the 10.

[Flyrx7]

must be a sports thing

I think that right there sums up the differences between the HR10 and HR20.

The Tivo was biased towards the sports fan, with the slow mo (for obvious reasons) and DLB (for watching 2 games at the same time), whereas the D* units are meant for the average movie watchers and the people that record everything.

D* could add those 2 items and market this thing as the "Sports Model", and for a company that puts so much emphasis on sports it's really confounding the way they implemented the DVR+ line.

Regards,
Frank

[Nicholsen]

Again matter of preference, the DLB is important to you, to me it is not worth the powder and shot to blow it away. I prefer the way the skip function is implemented in the HR2X series and the fact you have a choice on how to set it up. Outside of choosing which format for the 30 sec skip you want, what 2 buttons? On the remote I use (came with the HR2X, there is a single button that always initiated the 30 sec skip, no twp button setup. Slo-Mo, must be a sports thing, have never used it in day to day viewing of TV.

Again "basic dvr functions" are in the eye of the beholder - the biggest basic dvr function that that the Hr10 lacked was native networking, to get it networked you had to hack the software

I am not pretending in any way shape or form, if you think that I am then you are way off base in your opinion, you may consider that but I do not. I do not consider the clunky windows 3.0 type format that the HR10 has in any way shape or form of being "elegant". In the time I have used both the HR10 (still have 1 running in the garage) and the HR2X series I vastly prefer the capabilities of the 2X series over the 10.

WingRider:

No personal attack intended. If "pretend" was a poor choice of words, I apologize. I don't doubt that you prefer the HR21.

This is my view ---

I don't think the TIVO interface has any resemblance to windows 3. Whatever flaws TIVO may have, IMHO, the TIVO interface is clean and elegant. I think the comparison to Apple is appropriate.

The HR21 has only a "slip" out of the box. You must use a back door to enable a true skip, much like the TIVO. I really don't like the slip.

TIVO is great, great, great for sports. THE DLB and slo-mo are great. It also works fine for series and movies.

The HR21 is poor for sports, and has some problems recording series from time to time. I use it mostly for HD movies and MPEG4 HD.

I have never seriously considered networking the HR21. Does that enable some feature(s) that you think are particularly important to the average user?

[Michael D'Angelo]

I have never seriously considered networking the HR21. Does that enable some feature(s) that you think are particularly important to the average user?

Networking an HR20/21 will allow you to use Media Share, DoD (DIRECTV on Demand), PC Playback (in the near future), and MRV (Multi-Room-Viewing) at some point when added if you have more than one HR20/21 networked.

[Nicholsen]

D* could add those 2 items and market this thing as the "Sports Model", and for a company that puts so much emphasis on sports it's really confounding the way they implemented the DVR+ line.



You are dead on.

I actually had the opportunity to meet and briefly speak with Don Nelson last night, which was a thrill. Very gracious guy. If I had my wits about me, I would have asked him if he thinks DLB and slo-mo are key features for a DVR. LOL

Go Celtics!

[wingrider01]

WingRider:

No personal attack intended. If "pretend" was a poor choice of words, I apologize. I don't doubt that you prefer the HR21.

This is my view ---

I don't think the TIVO interface has any resemblance to windows 3. Whatever flaws TIVO may have, IMHO, the TIVO interface is clean and elegant. I think the comparison to Apple is appropriate.

The HR21 has only a "slip" out of the box. You must use a back door to enable a true skip, much like the TIVO. I really don't like the slip.

TIVO is great, great, great for sports. THE DLB and slo-mo are great. It also works fine for series and movies.

The HR21 is poor for sports, and has some problems recording series from time to time. I use it mostly for HD movies and MPEG4 HD.

I have never seriously considered networking the HR21. Does that enable some feature(s) that you think are particularly important to the average user?

Might want to check the release notes on the software upgrades that have been pushed out to thge HR2X series boxes, might find some interesting reading there concerning some of the things you have posted here.

again different opinions ofr the GUI, find the HR10 series clunky and slow, so while the apple comparision is fine for you, the Windows comparision is fine for me.

Again, not everyone in the world live on sports, so for a lot of people DLB may not be the same priority for everyone.

As far as networking being important, depends on what the the end user's feelings are for MRV and media share and VOD (DOD), to me that is light years ahead of the need of DLB. Use VOD/DOD almost as much as I do scheduled over the satilite recordings. Of couse a 2 TB esata array on all of the HR2X's I own doesn't hurt either. Not to mention the new release of new MF3 information, surprisingly enough this is some of the best news I have heard in a long time for muti-family style installations. Really hoping that MRV and the upcoming PC interface coming from directv will allow me to integrate to the WSH and Vista Ultimate MediaPC's I have running also.

Bottom line - at least to me - is that I have both HR10's and HR2X's running - in my configuration, the HR10 comes up woefully short on usability.

[Flyrx7]

Again, not everyone in the world live on sports, so for a lot of people DLB may not be the same priority for everyone.

Especially the D* engineers, apparently.
I think we need a few jocks on the steering commitee! :)

Come to think of it, we can probably blame this all on the geeks, wanting to network everthing instead of watching 2 football games at the same time. Go figure.:rolleyes:

Regards,
Frank

Ps. Don't be offended if you're a geek. It was just my cheap shot at a bit of humor. But how wrong am I......?

[wingrider01]

Especially the D* engineers, apparently.
I think we need a few jocks on the steering commitee! :)

Come to think of it, we can probably blame this all on the geeks, wanting to network everthing instead of watching 2 football games at the same time. Go figure.:rolleyes:

Regards,
Frank

Ps. Don't be offended if you're a geek. It was just my cheap shot at a bit of humor. But how wrong am I......?

Doubt it has to do anything with jocks, suspect more with lawyers and patents.

Do what my brother does, he has 4 units and 4 tv's in his living room, he watches 4 events at once. Before someone spouts off - he does not have Directv, he has other services.