DVD/RW for archive, SWEET!!!

[gcutler]

Been using my DVD/RW almost exclusively for DVD video burning, but lately been using DVD/RW for archiving of data and work stuff (using Roxio "Drag to Disc" from their new Creator 6, Nero inCD supports same thing as well).

Having a 4GB archive disc (instead of a 600MB CD/RW) sitting in the drive is sweet. I now have 2 DVD/RW drives in 2 seperate machine thanks to the Staples $150 deal, and I want to get one for each of my machines.

[RandyAB]

What Staples deal?

[gcutler]

Staples had a deal (talked about here in detail) where a an OEM of th Poineer DVD-R/W 105 drive (in a Cendyne box) was $299-$60 Instant Rebate-$50 Mail In Rebate-$40 Coupon (coupons varied up to $50) so those who were quick enough got the unit for $140 or $150. I paid $259 for the identical model a month or two earlier. And decided to add a second one to the household for $150.

I'm sure if it happens again they'll post it.

[firephoto]

I've been spending all week doing the avi vids to dvd thing. Takes a while (ok it took 12 hours to encode 90 minutes of video last night) but makes some nice results.

I've had about 50gb of avi's filling up my hd's for a month and getting the dvd burner motivated me enough to encode them finally. That and I could actually test my results. It's a little more involved than making svcd's. ;)

Spent all day working on an overhead projector so I can catalog a few thousand b&w negatives. I don't know how old this thing is but it had a 1000 watt light bulb in it that was only slightly longer than a standard light bulb. I converted it over to a 500 watt halogen bulb and it seems to work great. The old bulb was burnt out. I'm using it because the lenses in it are really good and about 5 inches in diameter.
The goal is to get digital images this way, put them on a cd or dvd and send them out to relatives and they can tell me what pics they like, and I can scan those negatives. I came to the conclusion that I wasn't going to get all these scanned any time soon (3 at a time).
It's mostly 120/620 film with 60x60mm and 60x90mm negatives. There's some smaller ones, and a few really big negatives too. Great grandparents and grandparents pictures from about 1920-1970.

So when I get caught up on this and some video projects I'll have a lot archived to dvd. :)

Accepting tips for making video dvd's too. I want to make compliant dvd's, not just mpeg files dropped on the disk. I've tried a half a dozen authoring programs this week and haven't found one that I really like yet. I tried Ulead DVD workshop today but the trial I had didn't accept the m2v/wav file from the encoder. I have the update now though and I think it's suppose to make it work but I haven't checked yet.

Wow this is long.
Sorry! :)


:hi:

[Chris Blount]

DVD authoring definitely takes some practice. It took me about a month before I got really good at it. The big thing is the type of encoder you use. TMPGenc is one of the best free MPEG 2 encoders out there. The results are amazing if you have a fast computer that will encode at the max quality settings.

Lately I have been archiving our home movies to DVD. To get the best quality, I have been encoding at the 8 kbps bit rate which is pretty high yielding me 75 minutes per DVD with Dolby Digital encoding (otherwise it would be about 1 hour using PCM audio). Doing a side-by-side test, the difference between the original video tape and the DVD is almost indistinguishable.

Having the right authoring program can definitely make or break your DVD's. I use Sonic's DVDit PE. It's one of the few programs that will encode in Dolby Digital. It's not the easiest program to use and has it's quirks but being able to encode in Dolby Digital was very important to me because it ensures that the audio portion of my DVD's will have no trouble playing on ANY DVD player. DD is also more efficient space wise. DVDit PE is very expensive but the best way to get it for cheap is to buy an older version off e-bay (I got mine for $20) and download the updated version from Sonic's web site using the serial number.

Creating fully compliant video DVD's is kind of tricky but can be done successfully. The big thing is to make sure that you are using blank media that is compatible with most DVD players. I find that the Fuji DVD blanks work well but of course there are others. The other thing is to make sure that the bit setting is correct so stand alone DVD players will recognize the disc as DVD-ROM. If you have trouble with playing your authored DVD's on a regular DVD player, trying using a program called "DVD Bitsetter" http://www.dvdplusrw.org/files/dvdbitsetter2113.zip . This program will make sure that your DVD's are fully DVD Video compliant.

One more thing about the bit rate on DVD's. When not doing serious archiving, I have been able to fit about 1 hour 45 minutes of video on a DVD using the 5500 kbps settings in TMPGenc and Dolby Digital with some surprisingly great results. The video is not as sharp than at higher bit rates but definitely acceptable and much better than VHS.

Hope this helps you and enjoy!

[gcutler]

Originally posted by firephoto
I've been spending all week doing the avi vids to dvd thing. Takes a while (ok it took 12 hours to encode 90 minutes of video last night) but makes some nice results.

Wow, thats a long time, either you are using the highest quality settings, a professional encoder like they do for retail DVDs or you have a slow CPU.

On my P4/2.0GHz (512MB Ram) with settings set to the middle (4000k/sec, all geared good quality 2 hours settings) it takes me around 2 hours for 90 minutes of encoding. My 1GHz machine would take 4 hours at the same settings.

I've found that the highest settings often didn't give me results that were much better than a lower setting. I guess it depends on your eyes and type of TV and material you are working with.

Have you used "DVD Complete" http://www.dazzle.com/products/dvdcomplete.html

I had 3 authoring tools that came with my Capture device, BUrner and Firewire card, and one I bought. The SE Edition of "DVD Complete" I felt gave me the most customization, quality, etc. I had to upgrade to the Retail edition to get some things like animated icons, etc. Many people who don't like it say it won't work with their system, but like everythiing else you need to make sure all the patches (drive engine updates, etc)

[Chris Blount]

Originally posted by gcutler

I've found that the highest settings often didn't give me results that were much better than a lower setting. I guess it depends on your eyes and type of TV and material you are working with.
This is definitely true. Try blowing up the picture to 57" 16X9 digital TV. The difference is very apparent. Also the setting that really slows down encoding time is motion sensing. If you have it set too fast, you get quite a bit of pixelation while encoding high quality video.

Like you said though, it all depends on your own personal preferences. When I encode archived stuff like home movies, I use the highest quality settings because I try to think about the future and how monitors will get better and better. If I encode at lower qualities now, the defects will surely show up as TV's get higher in resolution farther down the road.

[firephoto]

Some great tips thanks.
I have been encoding at fairly high bit rates due to the content I've been encoding.
The 90 minute show had lots of fire and smoke scenes and I did a 2 pass VBR avg-4500/max-8000/min-1000. I set the motion search to normal because it was going to take almost twice as long at the higher settings. Also it was frame served from virtualdub due to it being about 1400 segments. I've came to the conclusion that when disk space allows, it's better to save the avi to one file after editing if I don't need to filter or process it. I hadn't been doing this because it took so long but then I realized that vdub was processing it while saving.

What setting in TMPGEnc do I use for the output file(s)?
I used ES vid+aud (m2v+wav) last time with the audio being "Linear PCM 48000Hz 1536kbps". For some of the videos I'll shoot, capturing the best audio will be very important. Lots of dead air but at times, but low level sounds and voices could be normal. (fire scenes/incidents, not spy work ;) )

So far with the princo dvd-rw my Apex player doesn't like it and the Pioneer player reads it fine. I still haven't decided what dvd-r's I'm going to get. I always try to get Taiyo Yuden cd's, but those are a little pricey in the dvd selection. ;) I do want something that's good consistent quality though and compatiblity.

[gcutler]

Originally posted by Chris Blount
Like you said though, it all depends on your own personal preferences. When I encode archived stuff like home movies, I use the highest quality settings because I try to think about the future and how monitors will get better and better. If I encode at lower qualities now, the defects will surely show up as TV's get higher in resolution farther down the road.

I've mostly been archiving movies and tv shows not already on DVD. Home Movies obviously would need the best encoding (as well as best media, to make sure they are useable/watchable 20 years from now).

My father had converted the Super-8 movies to VHS (did it himself instead of getting it done professionally) and between the VHS tapes deteriorating (he died 17 years ago so the tapes are easily 20 years old) and the quality of do it yourself, their transfer to DVD was not very pretty :(

One thing i've found is that there needs to be some subtitles because half the people in the 30 year old films I have no idea who they are or at least aren't sure. Subtitles with people names would help your descendants with keeping track whos who. I wonder when those movies get passed onto my brothers kids, all they will know is me and my brother and maybe my mother and father. All those black and white photos in my grandmothers house must have lasted 50-75 years yet for all the quality that kept them in good condition for 50 year, they still got thrown out because no one knew who anyone was.

[gcutler]

Originally posted by firephoto
So far with the princo dvd-rw my Apex player doesn't like it and the Pioneer player reads it fine. I still haven't decided what dvd-r's I'm going to get. I always try to get Taiyo Yuden cd's, but those are a little pricey in the dvd selection. ;) I do want something that's good consistent quality though and compatiblity.

Pricey may work to your advantage. Cheap DVD-Rs will either cause you lots of failed burns, more incompatability in more players and even worse "DVD ROT" due to poor construction/design. I have stayed away from generics. And even with non-generics, not every "name brand" works best in each drive. I'e been happy with TDK 2x DVD-R. I used to get a 10 pack (with jewel cases) for $35 ($3.50/ea). Staples has 15 pack TDK 2x spindle (I have way too many empty jewel cases) for $39 ($2.66/ea).

I know some people who insist that paying over $1 per DVD-R in bulk is a waste of money, but I guess that is a personal preference.

If you find a good brand for price and quality, stick with them.

[Chris Blount]

Originally posted by firephoto

What setting in TMPGEnc do I use for the output file(s)?
I used ES vid+aud (m2v+wav) last time with the audio being "Linear PCM 48000Hz 1536kbps".
That audio setting should be okay. I was reading in a magazine the other day that it's a good idea to encode the audio and video seperately for the best quality but to tell you the truth, my ears aren't that good any more and everything I have encoded using Linear PCM 48000Hz 1536kbps sounds great.

As far as DVD blank media, don't skimp! Buy the best you can afford. The DVD's you make will need to last for many years and you will thank yourself later. I have found that buying them in spindles is the best way. I can buy 50 good quality name brand DVD blanks for about $79. Even less if I shop around. When buying them in packages of 10 with jewel cases, they cost about $35. Not a bad deal buy not very cost effective either.

Originally posted by gcutler

One thing i've found is that there needs to be some subtitles because half the people in the 30 year old films I have no idea who they are or at least aren't sure.

Interesting idea. I even considered creating an alternate audio track with a running commentary of myself giving background information about what's on the screen.

A few years ago my parents transferred all of our old silent 8mm films to VHS tape with a running commentary. It is so awesome and after I get finished with my own families home video tape movies, my parents stuff is next and will make great DVD's because there is such a wealth of information on those tapes that can be handed down from generation to generation.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by gcutler

Have you used "DVD Complete" http://www.dazzle.com/products/dvdcomplete.html


I've never used that, but I use DVDIt PE alot.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by gcutler
One thing i've found is that there needs to be some subtitles because half the people in the 30 year old films I have no idea who they are or at least aren't sure. Subtitles with people names would help your descendants with keeping track whos who.

I haven't seen any consumer DVD authoring package that allows you to do subtitles. High end packages I've seen like Scenarist have all those capabilities, but at $20k/pop I don't think you'd be buying it anytime soon.

[gcutler]

Originally posted by raj2001
I haven't seen any consumer DVD authoring package that allows you to do subtitles. High end packages I've seen like Scenarist have all those capabilities, but at $20k/pop I don't think you'd be buying it anytime soon.

I guess subtitles out of the question :( But general on screen titles would do the job if not subtitles. I know my editor "MovieStar 5" allows placing of titles over the images. I think most editor programs allow Titles.

It would just need to be that when my Great Aunt Mary appears for the first time in the home movie (usually drunk and cursing at the kids) a little title that says "Mary Jones: 1903-1969" for a few seconds so future generations know who that is.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by Chris Blount
I use Sonic's DVDit PE. It's one of the few programs that will encode in Dolby Digital. It's not the easiest program to use and has it's quirks but being able to encode in Dolby Digital was very important to me because it ensures that the audio portion of my DVD's will have no trouble playing on ANY DVD player. DD is also more efficient space wise. DVDit PE is very expensive but the best way to get it for cheap is to buy an older version off e-bay (I got mine for $20) and download the updated version from Sonic's web site using the serial number.

I use DVDit PE as well, and it's great for a consumer package. However, it only does DD2.0, and not DD5.1. SpruceUp does DD5.1 although unlike DVDit, it would not encode DD for you. You have to encode it with an external encoder program like BeSweet (free), then author it in SpruceUp. SpruceUp is not available anymore, but you may be able to get it off ebay.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by gcutler

It would just need to be that when my Great Aunt Mary appears for the first time in the home movie (usually drunk and cursing at the kids) a little title that says "Mary Jones: 1903-1969" for a few seconds so future generations know who that is.

You can do that in your video editing package. Adobe Premiere and After Effects will allow you to do this. You don't need to do DVD subtitles, unless you want "hidden" commentary.

[Chris Blount]

Originally posted by raj2001


I use DVDit PE as well, and it's great for a consumer package. However, it only does DD2.0, and not DD5.1. SpruceUp does DD5.1 although unlike DVDit, it would not encode DD for you. You have to encode it with an external encoder program like BeSweet (free), then author it in SpruceUp. SpruceUp is not available anymore, but you may be able to get it off ebay. That's great and everything but why would you need DD 5.1 for home use? Everything I produce here at home is in 2 channel stereo so 5.1 would be overkill unless I wanted to spend more time "enhancing" the audio. I just don't see the reason behind having 5.1 unless you are a serious movie producer.

One thing that DVDit PE does that I REALLY like is that it supports anamorphic video. I have been shooting all of my home movies in widescreen so my DVD's are all "enhanced for widescreen TV's". Very cool stuff!

[Mike123abc]

Sonic has a product one notch up from DVDit PE, it is ReelDVD. With real DVD you can have 32 subtitle tracks and 8 language tracks. I started with DVDit and moved up to ReelDVD. It has a few other advantages over DVDit like ability to make menus in PhotoShop and import them. It also has DD2.0, but if you have another encoder make a DD5.1, it can use them. You can do fun things like motion menus.

Sonic has an upgrade program, they will give you credit from you previous program to the new program. You can buy ReelDVD on the net for about $1k, but can probably get a used copy for a lot less. The upgrade price is like $600 from DVDitPE.

I believe DVD producer is the next step up from ReelDVD at about $4k, then you go to Scenarist (what the movie studios use) which starts at like $12k and goes up to over $100k with hardware assist on encoding. Scenarist assists you in programing the virtual machine that the DVD player provides.

www.sonic.com

[firephoto]

I found what seems to be a really great program for making DVD menus.
DVD Menu Studio
http://www.mediachance.com/dvdmenu/
It seems to be a great alternative to Photoshop if you just want to make menus. It's also only $69

They are going to be releasing a standalone authoring program, DVDlab, very soon too. It wouldn't have the encoder in it but only focus on the authoring part.
http://www.mediachance.com/dvdlab/index.html
Price will be $79

[raj2001]

Originally posted by Chris Blount
That's great and everything but why would you need DD 5.1 for home use? Everything I produce here at home is in 2 channel stereo so 5.1 would be overkill unless I wanted to spend more time "enhancing" the audio. I just don't see the reason behind having 5.1 unless you are a serious movie producer.


One thing that comes to mind is a birthday or other party. It would be cool to get the sound in the back as well as the front.

[gcutler]

Originally posted by RandyAB
What Staples deal?

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&goto=newpost&threadid=13082

This is officeMax deal, but the best deal currently.

[Chris Blount]

Originally posted by raj2001


One thing that comes to mind is a birthday or other party. It would be cool to get the sound in the back as well as the front. Okay, I agree with that but how would you record it? To get true 5.1 sound you would need at least a 6 track recorder either in the camcorder or in a separate sound recording device. Then you would need an array of microphones to make it all work. Just too much trouble for filming a birthday party.