Intermittent 771 Problem

[ethshistory]

I have three DVRs in the house-two HD dvrs and one standard. One one of my two HD receivers, I can't go more than a couple hours without getting a searching for satellite 771 message--signal strength zero on every channel. Neither of the other two DVRs lose the signal at this time. I reset the unit, the signal comes back. Two hours later-same problem.

Anyone had this happen? I've heard this might be a cable problem, but I'm a little concerned it might be a receiver problem...

[ironwood]

Swap 2 HD receivers places and watch what happens.

[FlBillsfan]

I had this problem & have the protection plan. I called & DTV set up a service call. I thought it was the multiswitch, turns out the installer put the wrong kind of connectors on the cables. They worked ok for quite a while but finally failed.

[K4SMX]

Please see this post (http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1634332&postcount=13).

[shedberg]

I had the same problem for quite some time. I swapped the receiver to another room and the same thing happened. The receiver in the original location worked fine. I got D* to come out on a service call. The first call resulted in nothing much hapenning except for the tech to say some wires were loose. The second time, I made sure that morning that I have the receiver on and the problem was occurring. Since he could not find anything wrong with the cables this time, they swapped out the receiver - no problems since then.

[GlennJ84]

Ya it really sounds like a bad receiver. I had the same issue but it was tuner one. Replaced HR21-700 and it has been bullet-proof since. A lot of boxes are bad for some reason or another. Sometimes it takes more than one replacement to fix the issue.

Good luck

[booster94]

I have three DVRs in the house-two HD dvrs and one standard. One one of my two HD receivers, I can't go more than a couple hours without getting a searching for satellite 771 message--signal strength zero on every channel. Neither of the other two DVRs lose the signal at this time. I reset the unit, the signal comes back. Two hours later-same problem.

Anyone had this happen? I've heard this might be a cable problem, but I'm a little concerned it might be a receiver problem...

Yeah, I'm having this issue now. I lose tuner 1 on my HR20-700. It just started within the last week. I switched the sat inputs and tuner 1 still stayed dead, and tuner 2 worked finw with the other cable. I reset the unit and it came back for about 15-20 minutes and then right back out. I need my OTA antenna, so even though I have the protection plan I hesitate calling it in because they'll want to give me and HR21 and I'll be stuck without being able to use my OTA antenna for my HD locals.


Also I have a different (unrelated) issue. I have trees that have grown up (not mine) that block the 110, and 119 sats this time of year. But now since I had a slimline installed about a month agao after an LNB failure on my AT9 the 103 signals were mostly in the 60s and 70s. I don't think the installer peaked it right. The 101 is solid, but how can I peak the 103 without having the 119 available?

[K4SMX]

Yeah, I'm having this issue now. I lose tuner 1 on my HR20-700. It just started within the last week. I switched the sat inputs and tuner 1 still stayed dead, and tuner 2 worked finw with the other cable. I reset the unit and it came back for about 15-20 minutes and then right back out. I need my OTA antenna, so even though I have the protection plan I hesitate calling it in because they'll want to give me and HR21 and I'll be stuck without being able to use my OTA antenna for my HD locals.

Also I have a different (unrelated) issue. I have trees that have grown up (not mine) that block the 110, and 119 sats this time of year. But now since I had a slimline installed about a month agao after an LNB failure on my AT9 the 103 signals were mostly in the 60s and 70s. I don't think the installer peaked it right. The 101 is solid, but how can I peak the 103 without having the 119 available?
DirecTV has gotten somewhat better about dealing with the OTA problem on replacement HR's, but you may have to get just the right person to send an e-mail to the Logistics Department about the order.

You don't need to be able to receive the 119 at all in order to peak the 103. Just make sure the tilt/skew is set to spec for your location (dishpointer.com (http://www.dishpointer.com/), select the 5 LNB dish) and align the dish by direct observation of a 103(c) tp using the Signal Meters selection under View Signal Strength in the System Setup > Satellite & Antenna menu.

[booster94]

DirecTV has gotten somewhat better about dealing with the OTA problem on replacement HR's, but you may have to get just the right person to send an e-mail to the Logistics Department about the order.

You don't need to be able to receive the 119 at all in order to peak the 103. Just make sure the tilt/skew is set to spec for your location select the 5 LNB dish) and align the dish by direct observation of a 103(c) tp using the Signal Meters selection under View Signal Strength in the System Setup > Satellite & Antenna menu.

Thanks for the info. Assuming I can get to the right person at Directv, do you know if they give another HR20 in that case on do they give an HR21 with the AM21 as the replacement?

Also as for my alignment, is it more likely to be an issue with the evelation or azimuth, based on the fact that the 101 seems spot on (seeing 100 on a few transponders and 90's on almost all the rest) , or isn't that enough info to tell? I always thought if the 101 was peaked the 99/103 would fall into place, unless it was a tilt issue, which you mentioned shouldn't be factor.

[K4SMX]

I don't know which they might do. I'd expect they'd rather try to locate an HR20 refurb than send you an HR21 and an AM21. You'd have to be grateful for either outcome, since this is not the easiest thing to accomplish. If you get an HR20 refurb, there's a fair chance there'll be a problem with it, so be ready for that eventuality and having to go through the whole process again. :)

If you just had your dish replaced a month ago, re-alignment should be covered under warranty, since signals in the 60's are below DirecTV minimum installation standards. If you call them, you need to be currently experiencing reception problems due to low signals.

If you want to peak it yourself, which is relatively easy if you have safe access, it could be minor adjustments to the AZ, the EL, or both. Before adjusting those, I'd peak a 103(c) transponder on the Signal Meters with the tilt adjustment. (Slightly loosen the 3 nuts on the ring.) The peak should be very close to where the tilt is already set. Then further peak the EL and finally the AZ with the fine adjustment bolts, after loosening slightly the 2 lock down bolts for each mechanism.

[booster94]

I don't know which they might do. I'd expect they'd rather try to locate an HR20 refurb than send you an HR21 and an AM21. You'd have to be grateful for either outcome, since this is not the easiest thing to accomplish. If you get an HR20 refurb, there's a fair chance there'll be a problem with it, so be ready for that eventuality and having to go through the whole process again. :)

If you just had your dish replaced a month ago, re-alignment should be covered under warranty, since signals in the 60's are below DirecTV minimum installation standards. If you call them, you need to be currently experiencing reception problems due to low signals.

If you want to peak it yourself, which is relatively easy if you have safe access, it could be minor adjustments to the AZ, the EL, or both. Before adjusting those, I'd peak a 103(c) transponder on the Signal Meters with the tilt adjustment. (Slightly loosen the 3 nuts on the ring.) The peak should be very close to where the tilt is already set. Then further peak the EL and finally the AZ with the fine adjustment bolts, after loosening slightly the 2 lock down bolts for each mechanism.


I don't "want" to do it myself, but the techs freak out everytime they come to my hourse and see the 119 blocked and they complain it should have never been put there in the first place, but there is no other option as I'm surounded by trees, so this is better then nothing. (It was DTV installers that put it there to begin with...not me). Even though I'm perfectly fine with it, they are worried I going to call in and say they didn't do a good job and they'll somehow get penalized for it. I go through this with every tech that comes to my house.

I don't watch the 119 anyway...though not having the 110 is not cool. This is the first year the 110 is blocked completely...usually i could get low signal on it. It makes me wonder about the alignment again. My disk is pole mounted in my yard though, so I can probably so do it myself. One thing I'm not sure of it if the trees that block the 110, 119 are now beginning to encroach on the 103 as well. Once the 99 is up I should be able to tell more eaaily of th problem is with the trees or the alignment or a combination of both. The 101 is fine and the 99 should be equally as good.

As for the 771 issue:

The interesting thing about this issue is I was having the problem where I was getting all zeros one tuner 1, and I had read another post about re-running the satellite setup for this type of problem and I was prepared to do that after I got home from work. When I got home, I checked the signal levels and both tuners were working normally again. I hadn't done anything with the HR20. Maybe it was turned off and on...but certainly not reset or power cycled yet it was back to normal operation. For how long...I'm not sure.

[K4SMX]

Sounds like you need to move it and be done with these issues. It's fairly typical to find only a small amount of concrete was originally used. You might be able to dig a bigger hole, dig up the existing pole, and re-cement it in more concrete in the new spot. Dead level plumb.

[booster94]

Sounds like you need to move it and be done with these issues. It's fairly typical to find only a small amount of concrete was originally used. You might be able to dig a bigger hole, dig up the existing pole, and re-cement it in more concrete in the new spot. Dead level plumb.

Unfortuntely there is no other place to move it to, which is why it is where it is to begin with. Its on the back edge of my property now. Its the only place I can hit all 5 satellites (at least for half the year when there are no leaves). Once channels get movedand the Slim3 dish is available I'll have a few options...until then I'm kinda stuck.

[K4SMX]

.....Also I have a different (unrelated) issue. I have trees that have grown up (not mine) that block the 110, and 119 sats this time of year.....
Forget the 119 tree. The 110 tree may also be a problem one day on 103 as well? Buy the tree or buy a couple of gallons of antifreeze. :rolleyes:

[booster94]

Forget the 119 tree. The 110 tree may also be a problem one day on 103 as well? Buy the tree or buy a couple of gallons of antifreeze. :rolleyes:

Yeah, its a 100 footer though, it may take a case of antifreeze. :)

If it wasn't my neighbors it would have been gone long ago.

And I'm sure the 110 tree is having some effect on the 103 because when its windy my 103 signals go from the high 60's where they currently are to 30s or 40s with the occasional drop out altogther.

Thats why I'm hoping some fine tuning might get my levels up so that the wind blowing has a little more room to reduce my signal before it starts cutting out. Like, if I was able to get the 103 into the 90's without wind...maybe with wind it would drop into the 60's where it would still be watchable without dropouts. I might even be able to get the 110 into the 50s (my usual 110 summer signal levels) where its normally watchable on clear days. I'm just getting all 0's on the 110 now.

Maybe this weekend I'll take stab at fine tuning. I realize there is a chance maybe the dish is aligned properly and the trees are the entire problem. I guess I wouldn't be able to tell for sure until the 99 is up, because that should not have any LOS issues. If that shows low signal, then I know my alignment is off. But since I don't feel like waiting, I'll tinker and see if I can improve things.

[graymd74]

Okay, I am brand new to the board and have had some similar problems like a lot of people have mention on the 771 issue. I have a HR21 DVR and a regular HD receiver (the newer -200's, nondvr) My 119 is blocked by trees in the summer and I really could care less about it, but one of the CSR's told me that the HD guide information comes from 119 and if I can't see it it will cause me to lose the guide information and in time shut down the receiver requiring a reset.

I don't agree with this since my DVR has not problems except for channel 209 ESPN2 which I though should be coming from 103 as MPEG-4. I have no other issues with any other channels but 209HD and the loss of the guide on my regular HD receiver. I do get occasional reboots on my DVR, but that is managable and usually happens late at night.

Has anyone heard that not seeing 119 will cause all these problems?

The new guy...:)

[booster94]

Okay, I am brand new to the board and have had some similar problems like a lot of people have mention on the 771 issue. I have a HR21 DVR and a regular HD receiver (the newer -200's, nondvr) My 119 is blocked by trees in the summer and I really could care less about it, but one of the CSR's told me that the HD guide information comes from 119 and if I can't see it it will cause me to lose the guide information and in time shut down the receiver requiring a reset.

I don't agree with this since my DVR has not problems except for channel 209 ESPN2 which I though should be coming from 103 as MPEG-4. I have no other issues with any other channels but 209HD and the loss of the guide on my regular HD receiver. I do get occasional reboots on my DVR, but that is managable and usually happens late at night.

Has anyone heard that not seeing 119 will cause all these problems?

The new guy...:)

The guide data comes from the 101, so not having the 119 won't have any effect on that. The only thing I have seen, is on my H21 I had to rerun my satellite setup (from the setup menu) to correct a different issue and when the guide repopulated it must have noticed in couldn't see the 119 (and in my case the 110 too) and left those channels out of the guide. This wasn't really a problem, and was actually kinda nice because when I go to 206 for ESPN in no longer defaults to the HD version and goes right to the SD version that I get still receive saving me an extra channel change.

[graymd74]

I didn't think it was a 119 problem though the guy was from the escalation team who told me this. In the last two weeks I have had no less that 5 new receivers installed to fix this guide problem. They have changed cableing, connectors, LNB's and anything else you can think of. They are scheduled to come back tomorrow to run a direct line from the dish to the box to see if there is an internal problem with some old cableing as well as ground the wires coming from the dish.

I'm happy that they have moved on from changing the receiver everytime even though I told them it wasn't the problem. I am not confident these next steps will fix the problem and I am about finished with D*. They say if this doesn't work they are out of options. The sad thing is, my signal strength is above 94 for all transponders.

Anyone have any ideas?

[booster94]

I didn't think it was a 119 problem though the guy was from the escalation team who told me this. In the last two weeks I have had no less that 5 new receivers installed to fix this guide problem. They have changed cableing, connectors, LNB's and anything else you can think of. They are scheduled to come back tomorrow to run a direct line from the dish to the box to see if there is an internal problem with some old cableing as well as ground the wires coming from the dish.

I'm happy that they have moved on from changing the receiver everytime even though I told them it wasn't the problem. I am not confident these next steps will fix the problem and I am about finished with D*. They say if this doesn't work they are out of options. The sad thing is, my signal strength is above 94 for all transponders.

Anyone have any ideas?

Check to see if you have signal on both tuners, particularly from the 101 Transponder 1 (where guide data lives). I had problems with where my guide would load after a reset and would basically render my receivers useless. The ones I hadn't reset worked okay, but rebooting forces a guide re-download and when it doesn't find the 101 Transponder one you are out of luck.

In my situation when I had that issue is was an LNB that went bad and they replaced my dish. Before that though when I was still troubleshooting I noticed I was only getting even transponders on the 101 and not the odds.

Now, as you probably read above I have a random issue (I think since the last update) where one tuner will go to all 0's and the other one works fine. A reboot fixes the issue for a while and then it usually comes back. But now has fixed itself and seemingly been okay for a few days.

So your issues are probably different then mine, but I can assure you that the guide should work just fine with the 119 blocked.

Also of note is that ESPN2 HD is not MPEG4 yet..its still MPEG2 and lives on the 119 (not 103) ...thats why you can't get it. ESPN News is on the 103 however. Regular ESPN is on the 110.

At this point is your problem occasional 771 issues, or missing guide data? Is the guide empty, of just missing certain things?

[graymd74]

At this point is your problem occasional 771 issues, or missing guide data? Is the guide empty, of just missing certain things?

Once reset the guide starts out populated for the first few hours, but instead of downloading the rest of the guide it just stays unpopulated. Once the hours that were populated pass I am left with "To Be Announced" or "Regular Schedule" eventually everything just turns blank. The picture will stop working and it will say channel 0-0 and no favorites and won't work until reset again.

[texasbrit]

The guide data comes from the 101, so not having the 119 won't have any effect on that. The only thing I have seen, is on my H21 I had to rerun my satellite setup (from the setup menu) to correct a different issue and when the guide repopulated it must have noticed in couldn't see the 119 (and in my case the 110 too) and left those channels out of the guide. This wasn't really a problem, and was actually kinda nice because when I go to 206 for ESPN in no longer defaults to the HD version and goes right to the SD version that I get still receive saving me an extra channel change.

Nope - guide data comes from 101 and 119. If you are tuned to channels from 103 all the time and can't see 119 you will eventually lose the guide data. To stop this happening, you need to set up your receiver/DVR to make sure it tunes to a channel on the 101 satellite during the night (say). With a receiver just use autotune to tune to (for example) channel 202 at 2am every day. For a DVR, do the same but set TWO recordings from a sat 101 channel for the same time, you need to make sure that tuner 1 is looking at a 101 channel to get the guide data.

[ironwood]

Nope - guide data comes from 101 and 119. If you are tuned to channels from 103 all the time and can't see 119 you will eventually lose the guide data. To stop this happening, you need to set up your receiver/DVR to make sure it tunes to a channel on the 101 satellite during the night (say). With a receiver just use autotune to tune to (for example) channel 202 at 2am every day. For a DVR, do the same but set TWO recordings from a sat 101 channel for the same time, you need to make sure that tuner 1 is looking at a 101 channel to get the guide data.

How is guide data coming from 119 in case of a basic dish?

[booster94]

Nope - guide data comes from 101 and 119. If you are tuned to channels from 103 all the time and can't see 119 you will eventually lose the guide data. To stop this happening, you need to set up your receiver/DVR to make sure it tunes to a channel on the 101 satellite during the night (say). With a receiver just use autotune to tune to (for example) channel 202 at 2am every day. For a DVR, do the same but set TWO recordings from a sat 101 channel for the same time, you need to make sure that tuner 1 is looking at a 101 channel to get the guide data.

Not to doubt you...but is there any proof of that? And what guide data does it have? Is it just a duplicate of what's on the 101, or is it just the HD channels as his installer claimed?

Basically every year from May to November I have lost the 119 (with both a 3LNB and AT9 and now a AU9, and with a veriety of receivers) and have never had an guide data problems. Now admittedly I'm sure the 101 was tuned in at at times during the day at least for a while.

What would be the point of guide data on two different sats? It just doesn't make sense to me.

[K4SMX]

.....What would be the point of guide data on two different sats? It just doesn't make sense to me.
Here's the deal. If the receiver's tuner is always on satellites 103, 110, or 119, it doesn't have a source for the guide data, because the signal switching voltages always have the 22khz tone added, preventing 101 reception. Therefore, the 119 is used as a backup source, since the tone simultaneously enables the 119's, the 103's and the 110.

[booster94]

Here's the deal. If the receiver's tuner is always on satellites 103, 110, or 119, it doesn't have a source for the guide data, because the signal switching voltages always have the 22khz tone added, preventing 101 reception. Therefore, the 119 is used as a backup source, since the tone simultaneously enables the 119's, the 103's and the 110.


Interesting...I guess having used channels on the 101 occasionally (as I assume most people still do) I never noticed the issue. Any idea what transponder on the 119 has the guide data?

Also what about the Slim3 dish? Will they move the guide data to the 103 to accomodate the upcoming dish? Since that dish won't hit the 119 they'll need a new backup source.

[K4SMX]

Sorry, the 119 Guide tp #'s is not something I keep buried in my computer. I don't know how they'll handle 100% Guide info availability with the 99/101/103 dish, but I guarantee you it won't be a problem like the current situation, since all that is required is a 5 degree aperture.

[ironwood]

Here's the deal. If the receiver's tuner is always on satellites 103, 110, or 119, it doesn't have a source for the guide data, because the signal switching voltages always have the 22khz tone added, preventing 101 reception. Therefore, the 119 is used as a backup source, since the tone simultaneously enables the 119's, the 103's and the 110.

I am a little bit slow here. Is 119 a backup source for guide data?

[tpbrady]

What I hear is a lot of speculation and nothing from a DirecTV systems engineer. The one thing that fails the logic test is that the ability to receive a guide is conditioned by the channel last viewed. Receiving the guide must be a purely mechanical process of going to a known location to download the data and the receiver must be able to do that without anyone having to do anything.

We have encountered the same problem of the disappearing guide from one customer who had only a 99/101/103 ODU installed. Since most of our installations are with this single ODU, this doesn't seem to occur frequently. I don't know what causes it, but the only solution is to replace the IRD until it goes away. In this case, the third time was the charm. We have noticed that troubleshooting most DirecTV installations is a crap shoot. We find ourselves replacing equipment until the problem goes away permanently. On the first visit reset the receiver and everything starts working. On the next visit we replace the IRD. On the final visit we replace the LNBF and the problem finally goes away. On any given trouble call you could change the order of what you replace but still have to come back again.

[graymd74]

Thanks for the information tpbrady, but I have now had 8 sevice calls where everything has been replaced from the receiver (6 times) to the connections, the lnb, the cabling to the dish/receiver, etc. They have even drilled new holes in my wall and run fresh cable. Now I'm being told that it might be a faulty wire running to my other dvr that is sending too much voltage to the dish and frying the other receiver. They just grounded my system along with all the other changes and still won't admit there is a software problem with the receivers.

I am just about as frustrated as I can get. They have now asked me to switch the receiver locations (didn't work), unplug my one DVR and try it (didn't work) and now they want to come back and do a complete reinstall with all new equipment. All this because my receiver won't keep the guide data and my other DVR reboots daily for no reason.

HELP....anyone!!!???!!!

[K4SMX]

If you have no 119 LOS, you will not receive CH 209 (72) and you will lose your guide data if you don't leave your receiver on the 101 satellite overnight. (Just tune to CH's 235 and then 236 before you go to bed.) No amount of swapping equipment will correct this problem. You need to either move your dish or get out your chain saw, if you want this corrected immediately.

Edit: Maybe not 236 if it goes HD as scheduled in December. But by then you may not need 119 because of D11....:)

[graymd74]

I understand that for 209 (ESPN2), but tuning to a 101 channel mean that the HD programing does come down on 119?

What is D11?

[graymd74]

Never mind, found the 138 page post on D11...

[graymd74]

Update: After my post stating multiple service calls I used the advice given to try leaving the receiver on a SD channel and the rebooting and guide loss stopped. I am okay limping by with this solution until I get LOS back or the new D11 is in place to fix the issue.

Funny note though, the local D* subcontractor is determined to fix the LOS issues and showed up today for my 9th service call in 1.5 months. They showed up with 4 guys, 3 D* trucks and a custom made pole mount to fix the issue. I have never see this many techs on one call. Will let you know if this works out....

[Karnis]

Interestingly enough, I started having issues with the 103 sat when I got the HR21-700. Never had a problem with the previous one I had, the non DVR model. Sometimes 103 would work, sometimes not, it was driving me crazy. I got a replacement receiver & the problem was the same. As I last resort I removed the extra cables I had barrelled on to extend the length from the penetration point to my receiver & so far its worked like a champ. One of the cables was from the installer, which was the same style cable & connector as the outside one, but the other was a store bought cable with molded ends. I suspect that the HR21-700 may be more sensitive to proper cables, looking for a proper ground, or a certain gauge center conductor to carry the DC voltage to the 5 LNB switch. Once it stays stable for a few days I will try to reintroduce the installer cables into the mix. Also interesting was the fact that it affected both tuners.

[dcowboy7]

if its workin y not just let it alone ?

[Karnis]

Where's the fun in that?! ;) :D