My 721 died today:(

[Bob Haller]

My wife is a recording fanatuic and I tried to add a this old house PVR event. The receiver said t was out of timers. It immediately wouldnt go to the PVR page. So I tried holding the power button down. It rebooted, and rebooted, and rebooted.

Specificially it will check HD, load guide, power off, come back as colorful bars with a X in the middle of the screen power off and do this endlessely. Pulling the card, it doesnt notice, pull the plug, it just starts endlessely rebooting again as soon as its plugged in. Pulled the batteries out of the remote, removed and grounded the remote antenna just in case a neighbors remote was in trouble. Discoed the sat feeds thinking the receiver was pulling some power from the SW64 inserter.

E iis replacing the box. I didnt realize the out of events significance till after I hung up with the very nice advaced tech. He is waving shipping since this one was last reoplaced the end of january.

Only good news there was little unwatched on the HD. Jen is off ill from work and cleaned the thing up.

See potoprri for whats up with me. Lets just say its been $#@%$^

Whats the maximium number of events? I wonder if we really maxed it out?

Anyone else run at the max? Has this rebooting occured for you? Jen would like to see the remaining recordings..

[bfennema]

If I remember correctly, you'll be ok if you have any one shot timers once they go off and get removed from the timer list.

[Chris Blount]

Sorry to hear about your 721 problems Bob. After reading your posts I was especially vigilant when I got my 721. So far we haven't had any major problems (except for the "normal" known bugs). You really seem to be having bad luck which makes me wonder about your installation. Is everything grounded correctly and is your electrical house wiring up to code? I know how frustrating it can be. Right now I have some sort of ground loop whenever I plug in my 6000 receiver. Haven't been able to track down the problem yet.

[Bob Haller]

Well I replaced the grounding blocks just in case and rebonded the ground to the main house ground. I think it might be software. I will hook it back up and see if it starts working again when some one shot timers fire.

Given whats going on my 721 fits in very well here. See the potpourrui forum:(

[BobMurdoch]

I remember reading somewhere that 65 timers was the trigger. The problem would cure itself if there were any one shot timers that would clear themselves out.

Scott has said that L1.10 is supposed to raise this limit.

[Jacob S]

You had to replace the 721 now for the second time? This is bad, reminds me of the reliability with the 501's. I had three of those replaced on the fourth one that I sold to get rid of.

[Bob Haller]

Well the first replacement was from you guys encouraging me. I suspected it was software. Later many others started having the very same problems which apparently was fixed by software changes.

This now appear software too, so perhaps tomorrow it will work?

[Scott Greczkowski]

Bob if it was software alot more people would behaving these problems besides you.

We have hundreds of people who come here now who have 721's and your the only one reporting / having problems like this.

It's not a software problem, its something about your install or the way your running the 721.

[Bob Haller]

Scott, you ALWAYS say that! But look just above Bob Murdock says 65 timer events is the trigger. So I guess your right, my wife is off work ill, taping cooking shows which she reports change times constantly. So she puts in individual timers. If the 721 were name based this wouldnt be necessary. So she records, watches, and disects the recipes she wants to try.

I honestly had NO IDEA she had so many recordings scheduled. jUST KNEW IT SAID IT WAS FULL. Honestly though software sholdnt put the box into endless reboots and if you do call with this the reps should be aware of it. I had told the rep there were LOTS of recodings scheduled but maybe only 20 hours of unwatched stuff on the box.

Now the last time we went thru this you said it was ONLY ME. Later you got zapped by the same bug. I think yu should go set 70 one time events and see if you can kill your box too.

At least you will know just to wait till a few timers fire and you can access it again. Standing there watching a ENDLESS reboot isnt fun, espically if you dont know whats causing it.

You should look at me as a SERVICE, we somehow are a beta worst case tester for Dish. My presence here allows DBSTalk to know whats up with the laTEST BUGS, ALL COURTESY OF BOB hALLER:(

ARRGGH:(:(:(

[Chris Blount]

I wouldn't say it's just Bob having these problems. I've had spontaneous rebooting problems with my 721. Doesn't happen all the time, but it happens. I also had a timer set to record last night and during the time it should have been recording, it wasn't but yet the red dot was still next to the program on the guide. Really weird. The program never even appeared in the PTV menu.

The 721 has problems. No doubt about it. For the most part, it works but it sounds to me like Bob may be using it to it's capacity which in turn will bring out the bugs that may not show up during "normal" use.

[Bob Haller]

Yeah we backup record cant miss shows, like ER and enterprise. Right now tv appears uin a rerun phase.

Jen prefers the 721, me the 508.

We are great testers I guess.

[Scott Greczkowski]

From what I understand if you try setting over 65 timers you get an error message saying that the maximum number of timers are set, I never heard of one blowing up.

I will admit I have had rebooting problems in the past but (knock on wood) things have been running great on the beta software I am on now. :)

[Bob Haller]

Well we got the error message and jen attempted to set one more, figuring it would error again. Its still doing its endless reboot. Oddly enough I am not mad just curious as to whats up. Hopefully some posters here will try setting 70 timers. Anyone willing:(?????

I have the spontaneous rebbots and audio sync of FF and some occasional audio droputs with pixelling now and then,. Some are repeatable some not. Signal stergth over 100 many maxed at 125. I spent ooodles of time peaking to get it this good.

One thing we really get our moneys worth on programming for all the shjows being recorded.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Ahh ok we are getting somewhere, you didn't mention that you got the error message. :)

I am running the L1.10 software which fixes the limtied timer problem and also the audio dropout problem as well. So I can't trouble shoot this further.

Did the advance support have you reset your NVRAM after the reboot kept happening and happening?

I would be interested in knowing what they did. :)

[Bob Haller]

They couldnt get in to do anything. The box ignores everything including a pulled card, power button reset etc. They are sending another one and just for kicks I will put the 721 on a seperate twin to elminate any possible screwey 64 issues.

How about trying to fill the 65 recordoings and see if your box spazes too?

[Scott Greczkowski]

Bob try this...

Unhook both of your satellite feeds from the 721, unplug the unit form the wall then after 15 minutes plug it back in (still with the satellite feeds unplugged.

If you get to the acquiring satellite signal screen try doing a NVRAM reset.

Again my box has the upcoming L1.10 software (where that bug is fixed) so setting up 65 timers would do no good. :)

[Bob Haller]

Already tried that twice once over night. Left it unplugged <completely> over night and just unplugged it again now, Will see it it will accept anything when I get home.



As is it ignores everything and is stuck in its own little rebooting world.:(

I get the most interesting problems.

[Bill D]

The sporadic reboot and lockup is pretty much the biggest annoying thing right now on the 721. The other night I turned it on, the channel came up, and nothing on the remote or front panle would work. The power button on the front did work, the green light went out, but the channel stayed up. I did a re-boot and all was good..
My wife tells me usually maybe once a day while her and the kids are watching stuff, it will just reboot to the X on the screen

[Scott Greczkowski]

I have been lucky (knock on wood and knocking HARD) that the reboot problem I did use to have (It would reboot once or twice a week when doing simple stuff like changing channels) has NOT happened to me with this new L1.10 software.

I think thats a good sign.

Bob when you did that test did you do it so that the satellite inputs were unplugged?

And since they are sending you a new one anyways have you tried hitting it with a hammer? :D (Just KIDDING do NOT hit your 721 with a Hammer!) :D

[Bob Haller]

Yeah I was seeingf it occasionally too. Locked up isnt fun. I never get the acquiring sat please wait.

Do they have a battery in them? If it wasnt for the warranty I would try removing it. Had a comouter that did something klike this once.

[Bob Haller]

yep disco sat and everything. No joy. Hammer? Not YET:)

[Curtis0620]

Bob try this...

TiVo.

[Bob Haller]

E advanced tech called me while I was out. Wisah they would of left their number. Their message said they had some things they wanted me to try before they get the box back.

Oh well we are goiing to the home show, fairly cheap way to spewnd evening. My toothache is not so bad now that I am on antibiotics.

Wondefr what elsae will break today????

[Bob Haller]

I returned home to find my 721 happily recording PVRs. I can apparently now confirm a new known bug. If you exceed 65 or whatever recordings your boxes brain will spaze and endlessely reboot till the number drops.

Scott do you believe this wierdness was software or something about my system?

BOB HALLER LEADING THE EFFORT TO UNCOVER BUGS IN THE 721:(

[rjenkins]

I've had this happen to my 721 before. Posted about it here back in Dec/Jan.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10838

Reportedly 1.10 will fix this bug, but until then, you have to be careful not to set too many timers. I fixed it by hooking up the 721 HD to a PC with a Linux boot CD and removed the Linux kernel from the active partition on the 721 HD. The 721 sensed it had been tampered with and did a NVRAM reset, reformatted the HD and installed a fresh copy of the software, etc... Was missing all recordings and timers, but everything worked like new again. :)

[Bob Haller]

Thanks this confirms its a known bug. At 64 or 65 timers set calling up PVR get a loading data message. We will now stay under 60.

This message for Scott.
The NEXT time someone comes here with a oddball report you should be a bit more understanding and try to help troubleshoot the glitch rather than blame the user.

Frankly such a negative response to my problem just about got me to leave here. That is counterproductive for E since this site is a good tool to see whats up.

Someone else stumbluing on to my post and your response could get them to take their issue elsewhere.

You and E may not like bug reports but so far ALL OF MY REPORTS have been later reported as known bugs. At least some of which got you:)

[Jacob S]

I will agree with Bob, Dish needs to get their act straight, and I will tell you this, I am not talking just about the pvr products. The CSR's tell my customers false information against me several times over. This is one reason why I cannot afford to be in the satellite business anymore.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Bob PLEASE get off your horse.

It was stated awhile ago that this was a bug. You did not invent the wheel here, again this bug was reported LONG before you even had your problem. (I believe this was or is a bug on the 501's as well)

Again I will state that this bug is fixed in L1.10, so please patience my friend, Rome was not built in a day. :)

[Bob Haller]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
Bob if it was software alot more people would behaving these problems besides you.

We have hundreds of people who come here now who have 721's and your the only one reporting / having problems like this.

It's not a software problem, its something about your install or the way your running the 721.

Yeah Scott this post is what %$#^%$ me off. I guess your right, its how were using the box. USING IT A LOT!

But truly doesnt this post point your finger at a bad install or something? Clearly stated its not software.

Since its a KNOWN bug a helpful response woud of been how many timers have you set. is constant reboots a KNOWN bug? Appears so from others.

Awhile ago I came here with that lost input trouble. You said replace the box, somethingn I was reluctant to do since my wife had the HD FULL. You said your like a drownding man refusing a life preserver. Well I finally did replace it, and still get the trouble from time to time.

Look I come here looking for help, too see if anyone else is having the same problem. NOT be be told its your install.

Honestly usenet is a lot friendlier than you!!!!!!!

At leastr there you expect the $#@%$#

I will now drop this subject.CASE CLOSED!

[Bill R]

Software bugs can cause some strange problems that sometimes only a very few customers run into. A good example are the DishPlayers. After DISH put my locals on the spot beam my DishPlayers, at times, refused to tune to them (it wasn't a signal problem, the signal was over 90 on the transponder that my locals were on). DISH techs told me many, many times that this HAD to be an installation problem, they didn't have other reports of people having that problem (I did find one other person in my area that had the same setup as me, dish 500, dish 300 for 61.5, SW64, and Sky Angel service and he had the same problem on his DishPlayer, but NOT on his 301 receiver). Anyway, after spending hours and hours on the phone with DISH techs they just gave up and concluded that it was either an installation problem or DishPlayer software.

In January I got rid of one of my DishPlayers and got a 721. The 721 has never had a problem getting all my local channels but the DishPlayer, at times, still had a problem tuning to them (it tunes to a different channe number, one closest to the channel number that the local station is on).

The point that I am trying to make in this post is that I don't think we can blame Bob's installation for his problem. Even if it was some strange installation problem the software should be able to detect that and the receiver should not lock up.

[the_beaver]

living and learning is such
a FUN thing---don't ya think?!?!

[Bill D]

I think that is the toughest thing, are things hardware or software related. People having bad tuner 1's, assume hardware related (I got a new box and all was well).
Losing many many hours of recordings, not a lot of people have had this problem, I have had it happen 3 times since July, twice on my old box, once about 2 weeks ago on the new one. So is this an install, hardware, or software bug.
The re-booting grey screen X seems to happen to alot of people so I'm going software on that one. I also think Scott you said this is fixed in 110.

I would really like to know about the lost recordings, if it's not software then please tell me and the others this has happened to if it is an install problem or a hardware problem. The advanced CSR's seem to just ask if I had a power outage, and if not, then they have no idea why, and no-one else has ever had the problem I call about, even this website shows there have been.

All I really want is honesty, if there's bugs, thats cool, I live with them for a while, because the 721 has completely changed the way I watch TV. I think it's great that they have given Scott a preview of upcoming software and even let us vote on upcoming features. How about someone from Dish just posting here or anywhere even if it's anonynmous, this is a bug, this is hardware related, or we aren't sure, have to look into this one.

I think we all want the same things a kick a** 721.

I have now, gotten off the soap box.. goodnight :)
Bill

[Bob Haller]

Get a uninterruptiple power supply from Best buy or other locations. With reboots at 4 minutes having a stable power supply is a real plus. They arent expensive for ones good for 30 minutes of operation.

[dgah]

Hi,
Man, I wish I would have found this forum yesterday! My 721 had the same problem earlier this week, stuck in infinite reboot, and Tech Support ended up sending me another receiver.

Got it today, got it to work beautifully, so I started to put on all my timers. I guess I got a little bit carried away, and hit the 65 mark, and could not get into the PVR area any more.

Called Tech Support again, they helped me run a few tests, and then told me to reboot. I warned them that when I tried rebooting my previous box, it got stuck, but they said do it anyway, "we'll see what happens". So, rebooted, and got stuck in endless loop...

Now I have two 721's sitting on my floor with RA numbers, waiting for a third one to arrive :)

I just with that the Advance Tech Support was more educated about this issue, and had recommended that I wait until on the the timers fires off, and told me that whatever I do, DO NOT reboot the machine. But they didn't.

PS. When I get my new box, this will be my FIFTH 721 in about two months. The first two were JVC brand, one had a broken tuner, second one had a defective hard drive, right out of the box. Number 3 and 4 came directly from Echostar, and had no problems at all for close to two months, until this week when both of them died of the 65 timers limitation.

Good thing I have my trusty 501 as a backup while I wait for each new 721 box to arrive in the mail. Had it for close to two years without any problems at all.

Thanks
David

[mgavin]

You can perform the "quick-fix" if you want. Power off the unit and remove the 4 screws on the back, slide the cover back abit and then lift it off. Unplug the power cable to the harddrive. Power on the 721, it will say the harddrive has failed. Power it off and plug the harddrive back in. When you power it on again it will detect the harddrive is back and reformat the drive wiping out all of your config info - including the timers. Your 721 will then work again...

[Mike D-CO5]

Why do you keep trying to put more than 65 timers in any way?
I record a lot of network programing and so I just record whole blocks of shows in one timer . For example on Monday nights I record CBS from 7:00 till 9:00 on a weekly timer. Anything else movie wise is a one time timer and I never go past 65 timers. I have had the same 721 since I got it in June of last year and no real problems. Of course I am not trying to make it crash just to see if it will either.

[Scott Greczkowski]

The 65 timer bug is fixed in the new version of the 721 software. I am hopefull that you will see this new software soon. :)

I will post a complete list of bug fixes when the software is released. :D

[dbronstein]

Originally posted by Mike D-CO5
Why do you keep trying to put more than 65 timers in any way?
I record a lot of network programing and so I just record whole blocks of shows in one timer . For example on Monday nights I record CBS from 7:00 till 9:00 on a weekly timer. Anything else movie wise is a one time timer and I never go past 65 timers. I have had the same 721 since I got it in June of last year and no real problems. Of course I am not trying to make it crash just to see if it will either.

We don't even get close to 65 timers, maybe 20-25 tops at any one time. But I can understand wanting to set individual timers for each show instead of recording blocks like that. When you do a block, you only see the first show listed in the PVR listings, which would be really annoying to me because I like to see every show listed so I can easily see what we have.

Dennis

[dgah]

Thanks Mgavin,
It worked like a charm!

[dgah]

Hi Mike D-CO5,
I wasn't trying to break it on purpose :) The first time it broke, I didn't quite make the connection that the Timers were responsible for the system not being able to boot. The second time, I had a feeling it might be, but Tech Support told me to reboot anyway, I didn't think they'd make me do something that would kill my box, I guess they did not know either.

95% of my timers are Weekly timers. I tape a lot of rerun shows, like Sinefeld. I tape two of them or more per day, because I've already seen a lot of the episodes, this allows me to delete the shows I've seen and still have something left to watch. My shows don't really run in blocks that much, they're usually all on different channels at different times. I never watch live TV any more, so I like to have a good list of taped shows to choose from whenever I want to watch TV.

Now I'm counting my timers :) I'll definitley stay tuned to this forum to see when the fix is released :)

[Mike D-CO5]

The reason I use a lot of block programing is because I record a lot premium movies each week and this allows me to never really get close to the 65 limit.
I am glad to hear that this bug will be fixed in the future software. I might go back to recording each show instead of blocks.
This workaround has served me well and I watch a lot of network programs , at least when they are new . Just a suggestion till the new software is released.