View Full Version : That stinks, no D* for me...
Bummer. I live in an area where D* does not provide locals. Tried an antenna on the roof today. Most of the networks came in okay but Fox was horrible. Fox is still analog in our area and hot switches to digital in Feb 09. So maybe I can make the switch next year! My area is DMA 163 so I suspect I will always need an antenna for OTA locals. Hell will probably freeze before we get locals....
raoul5788
06-16-08, 11:01 PM
Bummer. I live in area where D* does not provide locals. Tried an antenna on the roof today. Most of the networks came in okay but Fox was a horrible. Fox in our area is still analog and hot switches to digital in Feb 09. Maybe next year! My area is DMA 163 so I suspect I will always need an antenna. Hell will probably freeze before we get locals....
With D11 going live soon you never know. There will be a lot of new capacity available.
With D11 going live soon you never know. There will be a lot of new capacity available.
That would be cool!
Fox is still analog in our area and hot switches to digital in Feb 09.
I was under impression that all stations had to transmit digital signal by now.
tcusta00
06-17-08, 07:16 AM
I was under impression that all stations had to transmit digital signal by now.
Where did you get that impression? The date is Feb 2009.
so you can't get locals.. then get the national channels. both east and west coast.
they are far better quality then the local channels.
FAR BETTER.
so you can't get locals.. then get the national channels. both east and west coast.
they are far better quality then the local channels.
FAR BETTER.
I wish I could but it is not possible. ABC, NBC, and CBS are available in HDTV locally. It would be impossible to get a signed release stating that I cannot pick up locals with an antenna. May work for Fox since the picture quality is so horrible at my place. Interestingly, the NBC tower is very close to the Fox tower (42 mi away). NBC HD looks great. So its not my antenna...
Stuart Sweet
06-17-08, 08:34 AM
IDRick, I'm curious, did you try analog stations, digital, or both?
IDRick, I'm curious, did you try analog stations, digital, or both?
I used a small HDTV with an ATSC tuner to test antenna location. Since Fox was analog, I also brought out two devices with NTSC tuners (DVD recorder and a computer with a NTSC tuner). Fox was horrible on both tuners. Antenna was pointed at the towers and delivering a perfect HD picture from NBC, located near the Fox broadcast tower.
The problem most likely is interference due to trees. My neighbor across the alley receives a better picture on Fox but does not have trees in the way like I do. My antenna needs to point at 190 degrees which is through a large maple and two large pine trees on neighboring lots.
42 miles away.. may mean waivers.
and why not apply for them and see what happens? I have waivers for my CBS that is my direct area. Why? because of the bluffs that surround my house. now you may need to get a pro signal measurement.. but if you do, and its below the prescribed levels YOU WIN.. no matter what the station says. where I live, I automatically qualified for NBC.. and with HD its going to get worse instead of better.
ziggy29
06-17-08, 12:18 PM
I used a small HDTV with an ATSC tuner to test antenna location. Since Fox was analog, I also brought out two devices with NTSC tuners (DVD recorder and a computer with a NTSC tuner). Fox was horrible on both tuners. Antenna was pointed at the towers and delivering a perfect HD picture from NBC, located near the Fox broadcast tower.
The problem most likely is interference due to trees. My neighbor across the alley receives a better picture on Fox but does not have trees in the way like I do. My antenna needs to point at 190 degrees which is through a large maple and two large pine trees on neighboring lots.
What is your ZIP? I'd be interested to plug your location into TVFool.com and see what it says.
It lists a bunch of stations in Austin for me, mostly -102 to -111 dBm, and I get all of them with a wall-mounted outdoor fringe antenna with no amplification -- 60 hilly miles away and with some trees partially obstructing.
What is your ZIP? I'd be interested to plug your location into TVFool.com and see what it says.
It lists a bunch of stations in Austin for me, mostly -102 to -111 dBm, and I get all of them with a wall-mounted outdoor fringe antenna with no amplification -- 60 hilly miles away and with some trees partially obstructing.
My zipcode is 83402. Assuming I did it right, the tv fool info should be attached.
Hmm, only one of the attachments came through. The Fox tower is very near the NBC tower.
ziggy29
06-17-08, 01:04 PM
A complicating factor here is that you need antennas pointed at 270 and at about 190.
You mention testing on 190; do you know what kind of antenna this is? Or the size of it? I would think a decently high-gain combo UHF-high VHF antenna pointed at 190 would work okay despite the trees. How strongly is NBC coming in on the digital signal? If it's really strong, I suspect you'll get adequate reception from the Fox station (and the CW nearby) after 2009. And since you say the NBC reception is great, so that's promising...for the future. TVFool says Fox should be a bit weaker, but it still looks more than sufficient to get a good digital lock.
But if you need a solid, watchable Fox local, you may be stuck with cable until Feb 2009. At that time you can probably test the digital signal on Fox (and the other stations coming from 270), and if they are strong and reliable, then you could more comfortably make the change. But yeah, if a suitable, powerful antenna can't pull in a watchable analog signal for Fox, you're stuck for a few months.
[Edit to add: Alternatively, you might be able to get baseline cable with local broadcast channels only for a few bucks a month, which could satisfy the Fox fix until February.]
OK, I'm confused, the title of the thread is "That stinkgs, no D* for me". I haven't seen anything yet that says why the OP can't get D*, am I missing something?
tcusta00
06-17-08, 01:15 PM
OK, I'm confused, the title of the thread is "That stinkgs, no D* for me". I haven't seen anything yet that says why the OP can't get D*, am I missing something?
He can get DirecTV but he wouldn't have locals and therefore doesn't want it.
ziggy29
06-17-08, 01:17 PM
OK, I'm confused, the title of the thread is "That stinkgs, no D* for me". I haven't seen anything yet that says why the OP can't get D*, am I missing something?
The point is that he needs better reception of locals than he can get OTA (particularly the Fox affiliate, at least before February), so presumably he can't cut the cable cord until and unless he can get acceptable signals from broadcast locals in another way. The signal from his FOX affiliate may be better after it goes digital, but until then, it's apparently not acceptable.
A complicating factor here is that you need antennas pointed at 270 and at about 190.
You mention testing on 190; do you know what kind of antenna this is? Or the size of it? I would think a decently high-gain combo UHF-high VHF antenna pointed at 190 would work okay despite the trees. How strongly is NBC coming in on the digital signal? If it's really strong, I suspect you'll get adequate reception from the Fox station (and the CW nearby) after 2009. And since you say the NBC reception is great, so that's promising...for the future. TVFool says Fox should be a bit weaker, but it still looks more than sufficient to get a good digital lock.
But if you need a solid, watchable Fox local, you may be stuck with cable until Feb 2009. At that time you can probably test the digital signal on Fox (and the other stations coming from 270), and if they are strong and reliable, then you could more comfortably make the change. But yeah, if a suitable, powerful antenna can't pull in a watchable analog signal for Fox, you're stuck for a few months.
[Edit to add: Alternatively, you might be able to get baseline cable with local broadcast channels only for a few bucks a month, which could satisfy the Fox fix until February.]
Thanks for taking a look Ziggy! I originally was going to purchase a Winegard 7695, based on recommendations from an antenna pro on the AVSFORUM. However, I stopped over at a nearby neighbor's and was talking to her about PQ with her antenna. She said PQ was great with the antenna but she was no longer using it (switched back to cable). Did I want it? Sure! Can't beat a free antenna. It's 80 inches long and has a front end head like the Winegard 7695. Not sure of the brand... The Winegard is a high gain antenna and may do a better job. But, it's not available locally ($110 + shipping).
Unfortunately, I didn't test signal strength. My HDTV would display it if one used the menu but I neglected to do that... :(
Good thought on potentially going baseline cable! Just checked. Yikes, cableco wants $42/month for basic! We're a small market and they're losing market share. Cable subs were 74% of our market 5 years ago, now down to 50%. Dish is making a killing here because they provide locals. D* could take over, if only they provided locals.
42 miles away.. may mean waivers.
and why not apply for them and see what happens? I have waivers for my CBS that is my direct area. Why? because of the bluffs that surround my house. now you may need to get a pro signal measurement.. but if you do, and its below the prescribed levels YOU WIN.. no matter what the station says. where I live, I automatically qualified for NBC.. and with HD its going to get worse instead of better.
You raise a great question. Last winter, I exchanged several e-mails with one of the engineers at our local NBC/Fox affiliate. I was looking for recommendations on antennas (they are 45 miles away). She offered to have one of her techs check tv reception at my home. This tech was doing several tests for potential D* waivers.... Based on the testing at my curb, the tech was able to pick up all the digital locals + Fox with a 35 mile basic combo antenna. The key is they checked at the curb not on my roof. According to their records, I'm good to go... Defintely worth calling for a potential retest.
ziggy29
06-17-08, 01:42 PM
This tech was doing several tests for potential D* waivers.... Based on the testing at my curb, the tech was able to pick up all the digital locals + Fox with a 35 mile basic combo antenna. The key is they checked at the curb not on my roof. According to their records, I'm good to go... Defintely worth calling for a potential retest.
The thing is, for these waivers the magic term is "grade B contour." I dare say that most of the people on a board like this one are rather "fussy" about picture quality, and for them, "grade B" contour standards are unwatchable. Their hand-held equipment may be able to pick enough signal for reception in the grade B contour, and if so, waivers would likely be refused even if it's fuzzy, ghosted and snowy as all heck.
The good news longer-term is that I suspect you'll be okay with Fox once it goes digital.
Paul Secic
06-17-08, 01:44 PM
I was under impression that all stations had to transmit digital signal by now.
February 17th 2009 is the firm date.
The thing is, for these waivers the magic term is "grade B contour." I dare say that most of the people on a board like this one are rather "fussy" about picture quality, and for them, "grade B" contour standards are unwatchable. Their hand-held equipment may be able to pick enough signal for reception in the grade B contour, and if so, waivers would likely be refused even if it's fuzzy, ghosted and snowy as all heck.
The good news longer-term is that I suspect you'll be okay with Fox once it goes digital.
Great point! Gotta have NFL football on Fox! I was really hoping to make the change this year... But, I am making progress!
Best,
Rick
Dish is making a killing here because they provide locals. D* could take over, if only they provided locals.
No joke - where I work (SE Illinois, in the Terre Haute DMA) it's the same situation - Dish started offering locals a few years back and the % of D* dishes took a nose dive - it's got to be a 50:1 ratio now, just eyeballing things.
I'd be surprised if the DMA didn't get MPEG4 locals this fall, though. If #152 Bangor has them, #151 Terre Haute should.
Good thought on potentially going baseline cable! Just checked. Yikes, cableco wants $42/month for basic! We're a small market and they're losing market share. Cable subs were 74% of our market 5 years ago, now down to 50%. Dish is making a killing here because they provide locals. D* could take over, if only they provided locals.
Check with them again. I believe all cable co's are required to have a tier of service which is just the local OTA channels and public access channels which is bellow what they call their basic package. For me it's under 8 bucks a month from comcast and saves me 10 bucks a month on my cable internet. It's not listed on Comcasts website but when you get more specific about what you want they know exactly what you mean and I had no problem switching to it.
ziggy29
06-17-08, 01:59 PM
Check with them again. I believe all cable co's are required to have a tier of service which is just the local OTA channels and public access channels which is bellow what they call their basic package. For me it's under 8 bucks a month from comcast and saves me 10 bucks a month on my cable internet. It's not listed on Comcasts website but when you get more specific about what you want they know exactly what you mean and I had no problem switching to it.
Good point, and I should have been more explicit. Cable companies may be required to *offer* this programming tier when requested, but they are not required to advertise or promote their existence. And for obvious reasons, they don't.
Hey for what its worth, I would get MY OWN TEST.
there has to be some TV repair place around with a couple of old gezzers' working there..
have one of them come on out and do the test adjacent to YOUR HOUSE.
my guy was like.. you shouldn't fail the test until he took the test.. and then Couldn't believe it.. distance should be perfect.. but .. I have a hill of iron in my back yard.. FLUNKED THE TEST BIG TIME.. all in my favor. ALL IN MY FAVOR.
he took six different checks and the first one was the best.. and it wasn't even close.
call around. get the true answer and it may surprise you..
No joke - where I work (SE Illinois, in the Terre Haute DMA) it's the same situation - Dish started offering locals a few years back and the % of D* dishes took a nose dive - it's got to be a 50:1 ratio now, just eyeballing things.
I'd be surprised if the DMA didn't get MPEG4 locals this fall, though. If #152 Bangor has them, #151 Terre Haute should.
Oooh, I didn't know that they were providing locals up to the 150's! Hopefully both of our markets get locals this fall! :)
Good point, and I should have been more explicit. Cable companies may be required to *offer* this programming tier when requested, but they are not required to advertise or promote their existence. And for obvious reasons, they don't.
Thank you Evan and Ziggy! I simply checked the cableone webpage rather than calling directly. I'm calling now... :lol:
Just got off the phone. Yep, they sell a very basic tier with locals (SD only) for $20/month. They do deliver a pretty good SD version of Fox, better than the other locals in SD. Cableone's HD locals are outstanding. Too bad they don't bundle HD with the SD versions.
The point is that he needs better reception of locals than he can get OTA (particularly the Fox affiliate, at least before February), so presumably he can't cut the cable cord until and unless he can get acceptable signals from broadcast locals in another way. The signal from his FOX affiliate may be better after it goes digital, but until then, it's apparently not acceptable.
That makes sense but I didn't see anywhere in his post that he had cable now.
That makes sense but I didn't see anywhere in his post that he had cable now.
Sorry Rad, I should have been more explicit in my original post. These guys are really good guessers! :)
Thank you Evan and Ziggy! I simply checked the cableone webpage rather than calling directly. I'm calling now... :lol:
Just got off the phone. Yep, they sell a very basic tier with locals (SD only) for $20/month. They do deliver a pretty good SD version of Fox, better than the other locals in SD. Cableone's HD locals are outstanding. Too bad they don't bundle HD with the SD versions.
IIRC, they also need to provide the HD locals in that package, at least on the wire. So if your TV has a QAM tuner in it you might also get those channels in the clear.
IIRC, they also need to provide the HD locals in that package, at least on the wire. So if your TV has a QAM tuner in it you might also get those channels in the clear.
Good point! They do provide the HD locals in clear QAM and I am able to record several other HD clear QAM stations on my computer. Oops, I should have remembered that aspect! Thanks! One HDTV has a qam tuner and the other does not. Interesting short term possibilities here. If I move the desktop upstairs, the wife can record her network programming on the computer. Little bit more tedious than a motorola dvr but not really too difficult.
Where did you get that impression? The date is Feb 2009.
I'm not talking about analog cut off date. I'm taking about law requiring all stations to transmit digital signal by now additionally to analog.
I'm not talking about analog cut off date. I'm taking about law requiring all stations to transmit digital signal by now additionally to analog.
Apparently our local fox did not get their paperwork in on time. Therefore their only option is a "hot flash" switch to digital on February 17th. 2009. At one time, I had the link to their FCC filing but couldn't find quickly. That's KFXP's plan and it has the blessings of the FCC.
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