Digital stations going back to VHF next Feb.

[Tiger62]

Two of my digital OTA local channels (UHF now) will be going back to their "original" VHF channels next February. www.tvfool.com already has this information on their website and I'm wondering if Directv will switch these channels over at the appropriate time so that the AM21 will tune them and the proper guide information be displayed. What are the chances, and who will I need to contact if it doesn't happen? Thanks.

[say-what]

As long as the proper guide info is provided to Tribune by your local station, things should go fine.

A couple of our locals had been sharing towers and operating from frequencies other than their assigned frequencies since Hurricane Katrina. Those stations recently switched to their own towers and frequencies. There was no problem with OTA reception with the DirecTV receivers (HR20 or HR21/AM21), the frequency change was seemless.

[ke3ju]

Two of my digital OTA local channels (UHF now) will be going back to their "original" VHF channels next February. www.tvfool.com already has this information on their website and I'm wondering if Directv will switch these channels over at the appropriate time so that the AM21 will tune them and the proper guide information be displayed. What are the chances, and who will I need to contact if it doesn't happen? Thanks.

It's not going to be a problem. Feb 2009 is when ALL full power stations stop simulcasting their HD/Digital on a different channel, and start broadcasting it on their actual channel.

Regards,
Ed

[micky76ag]

It's not going to be a problem. Feb 2009 is when ALL full power stations stop simulcasting their HD/Digital on a different channel, and start broadcasting it on their actual channel.R

Regards,
Ed

Thanks Ed,

I have not been following this as closely as I should have.

Right now I can get my HD locals with a UHF only antenna.

I don’t really need to because I also get them by satellite, but I’d like to keep the option.

So after Feb next year, will I need a VHF antenna to get some (all?) of the local digital broadcasts?

For some reason, I though the digital was going to stay UHF and the VHF bandwidth given back to the government to allocate to other uses besides TV.

Thanks,

[sptrout]

Thanks Ed,

I have not been following this as closely as I should have.

Right now I can get my HD locals with a UHF only antenna.

I don’t really need to because I also get them by satellite, but I’d like to keep the option.

So after Feb next year, will I need a VHF antenna to get some (all?) of the local digital broadcasts?

For some reason, I though the digital was going to stay UHF and the VHF bandwidth given back to the government to allocate to other uses besides TV.

Thanks,

I live in Spring, TX so we have the same issue. Yes, you will need both a VHF & UHF antenna to receive all local Houston stations. (Even today channel 8's digital channel is on channel 9.) After the final conversion next year there will be a mix of VHF & UHF channels. A couple examples: channel 2 will keep their new UHF channel, while channels 11 and 13 will keep their VHF channels (give-up their current digital UHF channels). The attached FCC Document lists all the channel assignments in the US.

[micky76ag]

Thanks!

Something else to add to my to-do-list.

[texasbrit]

Thanks Ed,

I have not been following this as closely as I should have.

Right now I can get my HD locals with a UHF only antenna.

I don’t really need to because I also get them by satellite, but I’d like to keep the option.

So after Feb next year, will I need a VHF antenna to get some (all?) of the local digital broadcasts?

For some reason, I though the digital was going to stay UHF and the VHF bandwidth given back to the government to allocate to other uses besides TV.

Thanks,

It depends where you are located. Stations had the choice of going back to their VHF frequency or staying on their UHF one, or in some cases moving from one UHF channel to another.
If I go to tvfool.com and key in a zip code of 77429, which is probably your zip code (or close to it) I can see a list of all the stations and their real frequencies both now and post-transition. It shows me that right now you have two digital stations on VHF - KUHT-DT on real channel 9 and KPXB-DT on real channel 5. After the transition, you will only have one VHF station, KUHT-DT is moving back to its analog channel 8, KPXB is moving to UHF. So basically you should not have any additional problems receiving digital TV after 2009.

To tiger62: you are right to be concerned, but it's a big problem everywhere. Since the AM21 and the HR20 both use guide data for OTA, unless there's a correct guide available on transition day reflecting all the frequency changes, the receiver's won't be able to get all the OTA channels correctly. I assume there is a big project inside Tribune who supply the guide to try to make sure that this is done correctly.

[sptrout]

If I go to tvfool.com and key in a zip code of 77429, which is probably your zip code (or close to it) I can see a list of all the stations and their real frequencies both now and post-transition. It shows me that right now you have two digital stations on VHF - KUHT-DT on real channel 9 and KPXB-DT on real channel 5. After the transition, you will only have one VHF station, KUHT-DT is moving back to its analog channel 8, KPXB is moving to UHF. So basically you should not have any additional problems receiving digital TV after 2009.

This is not correct. Per the FCC, both analog channels 11 &13 (CBS & ABC) will keep their VHF channels not their current digital UHF channels. From what I have read in other places both of these TV stations are using temporary UHF transmitter equipment (side-mounted antennas for one), which is causing reception problems throughout the Houston area. After the final transition, there will be three VHF TV stations in Houston: 8, 11, & 13.

[micky76ag]

Thanks,

I checked out the tvfool.com site.

I am in zip code 77429, but if I’m reading the chart correctly it looks like the five channels I’m most interested in make these “real channel” transitions:

KPRC-DT (NBC): 35 to 35
KHCW (CW): 38 to 38
KRIV-DT (Fox): 27 to 26
KTRK-DT (ABC): 32 to 13
KHOU-TV (CBS): 31 to 11

I have the Winegard SS-1000 Squareshooter UHF only antenna.

So it looks like I will have a problem with ABC and CBS.

I guess I need to research merging (is it called diplexing?) a VHF signal into my current UHF signal on the same cable.

[wilbur_the_goose]

The worst is WPVI-DT in Philly. They're moving to VHF channel 6, which is really tough to get due to it's location on the spectrum near FM radio.

They're NUTS

[msmith]

So, for those of us who have the Zenith/Phillips Silver Sensor, are we screwed when they go to VHF?

[macmantis]

The SS-1000 can do VHF, but just not as well. Here is a link to the product information, (pdf (http://www.winegarddirect.com/pdf/spec_SS1000-SS2000.pdf)). Just be happy your channels are not below channel 7. My only channel in Austin going back to VHF is FOX and it is going to channel 7.

MacMantis

[sptrout]

Yes, you will have a problem micky76ag. I would recommend that you do I what I did a couple years ago. Since you are in Cypress, and I live in Spring we should have similar issues.

I bought the highest gain VHF/UHF antenna I could find (I do not remember the brand) and mounted about 15' above ground on the back of my house. I am using a Channel Master (mast mounted) pre-amp which drives several TVs, both analog and digital, throughout the house. A mast-mounted pre-amp is key; you want the amplifier before any downstream cable losses.

I have one hi-def TV that is connected to a DirecTV HR20 DVR. I built the house 12 years ago with two RG6 drops from the attic to this TV believing that I would never need more than two (1 @ - OTA & DTV). The HR20 requires three drops (OTA, and 2 DirecTV), but DTV could not add another drop due to all my walls having fire brakes in the middle of the 10' walls. Therefore, I am diplexing the OTA feed with one of the two DTV feeds. This all works fine and next Feburary should come and go and I will not know the difference!

For others of you around the US, I think there is going to be a lot of unhappy people next year when they find out that their OTA antenna is in the wrong band. Unless you know for sure exactly the frequencies that you will need next year, I would go with a VHF/UHF antenna to make sure. Check the FCC document that I attached earlier, it does have the FINAL frequency assignents.

[Upstream]

So, for those of us who have the Zenith/Phillips Silver Sensor, are we screwed when they go to VHF?

The Silver Sensor is UHF only (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/silver.html), so you will not be able to get VHF channels without adding a VHF antenna.

Whether you are pointing to Philly or NYC, you have a lot of VHF channels in Hamilton:

12 Wilmington
6 Philadelphia
60 Bethleham moving to 9
58 New Brunswick moving to 8
13 Newark
7 New York
11 New York

[Stuart Sweet]

To the original poster, I can tell you that DIRECTV is working very hard to make the transition as seamless as possible.

[micky76ag]

Thanks for the link, MacMantis.

I may be OK. Looking at the PDF, I guess I have the 2000 because I have the amplified version.

It is mounted pretty high on my chimney, and my stations are about 31 miles away and I only need channels 11 and 13.

[msmith]

Does anybody have any experience with the Phillips HDTV3?

Phillips HDTV3 (http://www.amazon.com/Philips-PHDTV3-Indoor-Amplified-Antenna/dp/B000B58VNM/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1213714845&sr=1-14)

[Smuuth]

Most quality UHF antennas will receive VHF-High (7-13) channels without a problem.

[arxaw]

msmith,
Buy an antenna that looks like one.

[msmith]

msmith,
Buy an antenna that looks like one.

OK, do you have a recommendation for an indoor, VHF/UHF directional antenna?

I already have an amp that I'm using with the Silver Sensor and it works great. The one upstairs doesn't even need the amp.

[Mikey]

Does anybody have any experience with the Phillips HDTV3?

Phillips HDTV3 (http://www.amazon.com/Philips-PHDTV3-Indoor-Amplified-Antenna/dp/B000B58VNM/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1213714845&sr=1-14)I use it on one TV. I only have one VHF digital station, and they suppress power in my direction. I'm about 15 miles from the tower, and reception with the Phillips is borderline. Reception with the SS-1000 is nil.

[msmith]

Most quality UHF antennas will receive VHF-High (7-13) channels without a problem.

Yeah, but I'm gonna need channel 6, too.

[arxaw]

Smuuth, many of them will. Almost all of them will if you're not far from the towers (where a piece of wire or coathanger will even work).

VHF chs 9 thru 13 are usually the easiest to get with a UHF antenna. And the larger the UHF antenna, the more likely it will probably work for VHF.

To test VHF reception with your UHF antenna, try using an analog tuner to view analog stations currently on (or near) the channels in question. If you get a half-assed picture, it's fairly likely you'll be able to use the same antenna after 2/17/09.

For a list of stations that will be moving or making changes between now and 2/17/09, go to:
http://www.rabbitears.info/dtr.php

[Upstream]

msmith -- check the specs of your current amplifier to see if it is just a UHF amplifier or VHF/UHF amplifier. If your current amplifier is VHF, then you just need a pair of rabbit ears (which is what the Philips HDTV3 is giving you).

If you need an amplified VHF indoor antenna, buy one at retail from a store which will let you return it. Try something inexpensive, and if it doesn't work, return it (you can use analog picture quality to see if you'll get a DTV signal on VHF channels).

[msmith]

msmith -- check the specs of your current amplifier to see if it is just a UHF amplifier or VHF/UHF amplifier. If your current amplifier is VHF, then you just need a pair of rabbit ears (which is what the Philips HDTV3 is giving you).

Assuming that it's a VHF/UHF then I need a splitter to combine the Silver Sensor with the rabbit ears before the amp, right?

[myselfalso]

Where do you go on tvfool.com to see the changes? I can't seem to find it.

[Tiger62]

Where do you go on tvfool.com to see the changes? I can't seem to find it.

After you fill in your address, on the next page, select "Current FCC database" or "Post-Transition" and compare the two. You'll probably want to select Digital Only, also.

[Tiger62]

For others of you around the US, I think there is going to be a lot of unhappy people next year when they find out that their OTA antenna is in the wrong band. Unless you know for sure exactly the frequencies that you will need next year, I would go with a VHF/UHF antenna to make sure.

In my case, I'll have 3 UHF and 1 VHF channels in one direction and 1 VHF channel 105 degrees from that direction. I'm planning on constructing two single-channel yagi antennae, one for Ch. 9 and one for Ch. 12, combining them with a Channel-Master Join-tenna, then combining that with a DB8 UHF antenna by way of a CM7777 UHF/VHF preamp. I can build each of the yagis for about $25 worth of materials and an hour of labor. If I'm lucky, this antenna farm will all go in the attic and I have about 8 months to actually do it. :) I'm already using the DB8 and CM7777 in the attic and it works nicely. All 5 channels are currently UHF and 45 to 60 miles away.

[Upstream]

Assuming that it's a VHF/UHF then I need a splitter to combine the Silver Sensor with the rabbit ears before the amp, right?

Yes, you would need a splitter-combiner to combine the VHF and UHF signals before the amp. (That might be an advantage to buying an amplified VHF/UHF antenna, to reduce wires and clutter.)

[ziggy29]

There are a fair number of current digital UHF stations going back to VHF. In the Austin market, KTBC is going from 56 back to 7.

It's not so bad if they are sticking to high VHF, channels 7-13. It's the ones stuck on low VHF that may suck.

[texasbrit]

This is not correct. Per the FCC, both analog channels 11 &13 (CBS & ABC) will keep their VHF channels not their current digital UHF channels. From what I have read in other places both of these TV stations are using temporary UHF transmitter equipment (side-mounted antennas for one), which is causing reception problems throughout the Houston area. After the final transition, there will be three VHF TV stations in Houston: 8, 11, & 13.

You are absolutely right. When I did this a second time, I got the same results as you. So either tvfool screwed up, or I had a senior moment!

[sptrout]

You are absolutely right. When I did this a second time, I got the same results as you. So either tvfool screwed up, or I had a senior moment!

Thanks Texasbrit! The main reason that I knew about the mess here in Houston is that it has been written about over on AVS several times (mainly the poor reception on the temporary transmitters/antennas).

Next Feburary is really going to be interesting. To quote a current movie "There is going to be Blood."

[texasbrit]

mickey - do you receive KUHT-DT OK at the moment? If so, that may indicate your antenna will work OK for the VHF stations after transition, even though it's basically only a UHF antenna.

[micky76ag]

I'm on the road in DC right now, and I don't watch much PBS -- so I'm not sure.

But I think I do.

I'll check out channel 8, PBS and use as a "first cut" indicator when I get home.

Thanks!

[Kansas Zephyr]

It's not going to be a problem. Feb 2009 is when ALL full power stations stop simulcasting their HD/Digital on a different channel, and start broadcasting it on their actual channel.
Not all stations will return to their "old analog" channel, some to most, will stay put.

For all of those that do change their digital RF channel at the stroke of midnight on February 18, 2009, unless/until the databases in all of the HR2x/AM21 are updated, they will not have the proper channel mapping, and will not receive those OTA stations.

The HDTVs and IRDs that scan, will need to re-scan for OTA to update their internal mapping databases, at that time too.

[n3ntj]

As long as the proper guide info is provided to Tribune by your local station, things should go fine.

A couple of our locals had been sharing towers and operating from frequencies other than their assigned frequencies since Hurricane Katrina. Those stations recently switched to their own towers and frequencies. There was no problem with OTA reception with the DirecTV receivers (HR20 or HR21/AM21), the frequency change was seemless.

So at midnight or 6pm next Feb 19th, the IRDs will know to switch and the PSIP info the local digital stations transmit will make it all go smoothly?

[Kansas Zephyr]

So at midnight or 6pm next Feb 19th, the IRDs will know to switch and the PSIP info the local digital stations transmit will make it all go smoothly?
The ones that scan for OTA will only need to be forced to rescan by the user. Easy.

The market database ones must get an updated database download. That's the issue with the biggest SNAFU potential, since it's out of the users control.

The PSIP by the OTA station will not change. The PSIP only tells an HDTV tuner the number of virtual channels, within the single data-stream, and their labels (13-1, 13-2, etc.), the tuner "knows" which RF channel it is currently tuned to, and then updates its internal mapping database matching the RF and virtual channels. So, until you tune to the "new" RF channel first, it can't read the PSIP of a station that moves its digital signal to a new RF channel. The ATSC tuner must scan, and find it. Or, the user must manually tune to the RF channel.

FWIW...the last day for full-power analog TV is February 17, 2009. So, at the stroke of midnight on the 18th the "big digital RF move" and analog cut-off must be finished, or risk being fined by the FCC.

[ziggy29]

The market database ones must get an updated database download. That's the issue with the biggest SNAFU potential, since it's out of the users control.
That's what I'm thinking. I have a Zenith DTT900 which 'scans' all channels from 2 to 69 for a signal. Any changes can be caught on the fly by just having it rescan.

But I think our HR20-700 uses a database that has to be uploaded into the box, and you can't "scan" for signals it doesn't think exist.

[TomF]

My local CBS affiliate, KFMB, has already switched from their UHF frequency to the VHF frequency they requested for post-Feb 2009. They were broadcasting on UHF 55 and switched to VHF 7 in March.

I'm using OTA on both my HR10-250 and my HR20-700. I had a lot of problems getting the HR10-250 to pick it up correctly and it took a spontaneous reboot and several days, some of which were due to the fact that Tribune Media hadn't been notified on the transition day and it took awhile before the station realized this and had it corrected.

On the other hand, my HR20-700, which has a much more "hidden" channel scan process than the HR10, picked everything up correctly, including the guide data, the first time I scanned after the transition.

My CM-4221 picks up the VHF channel with 8-mile line-of-sight distance just fine.

[Kansas Zephyr]

My local CBS affiliate, KIFM, has already switched from their UHF frequency to the VHF frequency they requested for post-Feb 2009. They were broadcasting on UHF 55 and switched to VHF 7 in March.

I'm using OTA on both my HR10-250 and my HR20-700. I had a lot of problems getting the HR10-250 to pick it up correctly and it took a spontaneous reboot and several days, some of which were due to the fact that Tribune Media hadn't been notified on the transition day and it took awhile before the station realized this and had it corrected.

On the other hand, my HR20-700, which has a much more "hidden" channel scan process than the HR10, picked everything up correctly, including the guide data, the first time I scanned after the transition.
Did the HR10-250 (TiVo based) scan and get the RF signal, decode the PSIP...then wait for the guide data to be updated to become usable?

The HR20-700 (DirecTV based) uses a mapping database.

I'm confused by your post, since the HR10-250 scans for OTA and the HR20 doesn't. Also, KFMB is the CBS station...KIFM is a radio station...and KFMBs VHF assignment is channel 8.

[rynning]

The PSIP by the OTA station will not change. The PSIP only tells an HDTV tuner the number of virtual channels, within the single data-stream, and their labels (13-1, 13-2, etc.), the tuner "knows" which RF channel it is currently tuned to, and then updates its internal mapping database matching the RF and virtual channels.
So on February 18th, will everyone still have to tune to 13-1 and 13 will be snow? Or will both tune to the digital channel after a re-scan?

the user must manually tune to the RF channel.
At least on my TV, OTA digital channels can only be mapped to their analog counterparts all at once, which is bad for me since channels I should be able to get are in multiple directions. Are you saying I should be able to tune to a digital channel's "real" frequency? I've tried that before and it doesn't work. Any suggestions?

[Kansas Zephyr]

So on February 18th, will everyone still have to tune to 13-1 and 13 will be snow? Or will both tune to the digital channel after a re-scan?


At least on my TV, OTA digital channels can only be mapped to their analog counterparts all at once, which is bad for me since channels I should be able to get are in multiple directions. Are you saying I should be able to tune to a digital channel's "real" frequency? I've tried that before and it doesn't work. Any suggestions?
For example:
If 13-1 is actually RF channel 50, now.

A)...and they keep their digital signal on RF channel 50 after 2/18/09...then nothing changes.

B)...and they "move" their digital signal back to RF channel 13 after 2/18/09...if you turn on your ATSC tuner TV and punch in 13-1 on the remote you will get a black screen (since it's "looking" at RF channel 50...and nothing is there for the tuner to lock onto). You will either need to rescan for OTA, or punch in 13, no -1 or .1, the tuner will select RF channel 13, read the data-stream and then update its internal non-volatile mapping database.

This is assuming that you've already been using the TV. A new out of the box, after 2/18/09, ATSC tuner TV will simply scan and find where everything is.

Every ATSC tuner that I've played with using OTA can be manually told to tune to an RF channel, "see" the digital signal, and then display the virtual PSIP channel information. If your tuner can't do that, then how will it work after the analog cut-off, since there will be no "analog counterpart"?

[arxaw]

So on February 18th, will everyone still have to tune to 13-1 and 13 will be snow? Or will both tune to the digital channel after a re-scan?If you have a NTSC/ATSC tuner (analog & digital), it will still see snow. On some (but not all) ATSC-only (digital) tuners, entering the one or two digit channel number will cause the tuner to look for a digital channel on that physical channel number.


At least on my TV, OTA digital channels can only be mapped to their analog counterparts all at once, which is bad for me since channels I should be able to get are in multiple directions. Are you saying I should be able to tune to a digital channel's "real" frequency? I've tried that before and it doesn't work. Any suggestions?Many tuners have a "channel add" or "manual add" feature. The channel add will rescan and add any found channels to the list of channels it previously found. Same for manual add.

Most Sony HDTVs and the Zenith/Insignia digital converter boxes have this feature. If you must rotate your antenna to get all channels, this feature is a must.

[Kansas Zephyr]

On some (but not all) ATSC-only (digital) tuners, entering the one or two digit channel number will cause the tuner to look for a digital channel on that physical channel number.
Even on all of the NTSC/ATSC tuner TVs I've used for OTA, if you punch in the channel number only, without any -1 or .1, it looks for either an analog or digital signal on that RF channel and displays whichever is present.

The only difference is for a digital signal the PSIP virtual channel info replaces the RF channel info.

For example: A TV station's digital signal is on RF channel 50, but it is "PSIPed" as 13-1.

You punch in 50 on the remote...it changes the channel...it "sees" the digital data-stream...the station's digital broadcast appears...the 50, on the TV screen, is then replaced by 13-1.

[rynning]

Thanks for the quick replies.

For example:
If 13-1 is actually RF channel 50, now.
Should the TV (a Sony) tune to same digital channel whether I type in 13-1 or 50?

I have some things to try out when I get home!

[rynning]

and they "move" their digital signal back to RF channel 13 after 2/18/09

Wait a second, I thought the analog frequencies had been auctioned off. How can a station reclaim it's old frequency?

[Kansas Zephyr]

Thanks for the quick replies.


Should the TV (a Sony) tune to same digital channel whether I type in 13-1 or 50?

I have some things to try out when I get home!
Yes!

If you have already scanned for OTA, and it already "knows" that 13-1 is RF 50, then punching in either 13-1 or 50 should take your TV to the same place.

Don't punch in 50-0 or 50.0 however, the -0 tells some NTSC/ATSC tuners to look only for analog signals.

[drx792]

well according to TV fools im in the clear, the only VHF for Orlando is WESH-2 (VHF hi 11)
I get that now and it'll be the same after the Digital Switch, thank god cause i cant pick up the VHF low analog channels with my antenna now for the life of me. (IIRC its a SS-1000 as well)

I dont get why the FCC would give the option to switch back to VHF though. PSIP eliminates all the confusion about real channel numbers and what not to average consumers so why bother?
Oh, and tvfools listed all the digital channels as 2.1 and 6.1 after the transition arent they just going to be 2 and 6 now since we wont have 2 of each?

[ziggy29]

Wait a second, I thought the analog frequencies had been auctioned off. How can a station reclaim it's old frequency?
My understanding is that the frequencies corresponding to channels 52 through 69 are being auctioned off -- and that when stations no longer need two RF channels, there will be room to move those currently above channel 51 to something lower.

[Kansas Zephyr]

Wait a second, I thought the analog frequencies had been auctioned off. How can a station reclaim it's old frequency?
Channels 52-69 are going bye-bye.

2-51 are still for TV. There are no "analog frequencies" or "digital" ones, there are only TV channels. An NTSC or ATSC signal occupies the same bandwidth.

[paulh]

I dont get why the FCC would give the option to switch back to VHF though. PSIP eliminates all the confusion about real channel numbers and what not to average consumers so why bother?
Oh, and tvfools listed all the digital channels as 2.1 and 6.1 after the transition arent they just going to be 2 and 6 now since we wont have 2 of each?

I believe the lower the channel #, the bigger the wavelength and the less power (electricity) required to broadcast for a certain distance. Generally stations want to save on their utility bills and use the lower frequency

[Kansas Zephyr]

I dont get why the FCC would give the option to switch back to VHF though. PSIP eliminates all the confusion about real channel numbers and what not to average consumers so why bother?
It's cheaper to run a VHF transmitter. You get the same/better coverage with less power. VHF slots are highly coveted. With the exception of VHF-Lo (2-6) which has multi-path problem potential.

IMHO, I think that PSIP virtual channels have added to the confusion. If a station would ID itself as KRAP-TV 4 / KRAP-DT 23 people would know where to tune without scanning.

If you are trying to aim an antenna, it's better to tune directly to the RF channel and tweak, that scan, and hope you get it.

[TomF]

Did the HR10-250 (TiVo based) scan and get the RF signal, decode the PSIP...then wait for the guide data to be updated to become usable?

The HR20-700 (DirecTV based) uses a mapping database.

I'm confused by your post, since the HR10-250 scans for OTA and the HR20 doesn't. Also, KFMB is the CBS station...KIFM is a radio station...and KFMBs VHF assignment is channel 8.
Sorry, my typo, KFMB is the correct station, KIFM is a Smooth Jazz radio station that I listen to, I confused the two.

KFMB has switched to and is currently using VHF channel 7 and will continue to do so. Here's a post by Bill Lawrence, Assistant DEO of KFMB, in a local HD forum:

"KFMB-TV, Channel 8, is pleased to announce that KFMB-DT, will be switching channels for our over the air digital broadcast from UHF 55 to VHF 7. We expect to change to Channel 7 on (or about) March 6, 2008. If you receive our digital signal over the air, you will be required to retune your receiver at the time of the channel change. If you receive our digital signal from cable or satellite, no changes are necessary to continue receiving our digital broadcasts. As we approach the cutover date, additional information will be available on our web site at www.cbs8.com and here on the HD Forum."

The entire thread can be viewed here (http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/77/6432.html?1212820416). KFMB sold their rights to VHF 8 to Qualcomm to use for their cell phone TV technology.

The specific posts about the problems that I had getting this change to be recognized on both DVRs are on Monday, March 17 and Tuesday, March 18 (primitive forum system, no post numbers).

On the HR10 I re-scanned for OTA stations and on the HR20 I repeated the antenna setup. I hope this clears up any confusion.

[Kansas Zephyr]

On the HR10 I re-scanned for OTA stations and on the HR20 I repeated the antenna setup. I hope this clears up any confusion.
OK...so did the HR10 "get it" the first time after scanning...and the HR20 took a while until the database was updated?

Thanks.

[TomF]

OK...so did the HR10 "get it" the first time after scanning...and the HR20 took a while until the database was updated?

Thanks.
Umm, did you read the posts (posted under Tom, username TomF)? :confused:

I had a lot of problems with the HR10, including a spontaneous reboot and loss of all channels, guide data and account de-activation. After re-doing everything, it finally picked up KFMB-DT on 7.3. At that point, I had KFMBDT and KFMB-DT in the guide, both showing channel 8. KFMBDT was UHF 55 and had guide data, but didn't tune. KFMB-DT was VHF 7 and tuned, but had no guide data, at least not initially, until KFMB notified Tribune Media. The final result is that KFMBDT shows up in the guide as channel 8, with picture and guide data. A check of the signal strength shows it is picking up VHF 7.

On the HR20-700, I re-did the Antenna Setup. I was then able to tune to channel 8 in the guide, got a picture and it had guide data. Can't tell what happened behind the curtain.

[Kansas Zephyr]

Umm, did you read the posts (posted under Tom, username TomF)? :confused:
Sorry...but no, thought it would be a quick concise reply from you instead. Thanks.

[SandyEggo]

KFMB has switched to and is currently using VHF channel 7 and will continue to do so. Here's a post by Bill Lawrence, Assistant DEO of KFMB, in a local HD forum:

"KFMB-TV, Channel 8, is pleased to announce that KFMB-DT, will be switching channels for our over the air digital broadcast from UHF 55 to VHF 7. We expect to change to Channel 7 on (or about) March 6, 2008. If you receive our digital signal over the air, you will be required to retune your receiver at the time of the channel change. If you receive our digital signal from cable or satellite, no changes are necessary to continue receiving our digital broadcasts. As we approach the cutover date, additional information will be available on our web site at and here on the HD Forum."

The entire thread can be viewed . KFMB sold their rights to VHF 8 to Qualcomm to use for their cell phone TV technology.


KFMB will move their digital signal to channel 8, when they turn off their analog signal next Feb.

KFMB was transmitting their digital signal on channel 55. They moved to channel 7, so Qualcomm could get the use of channel 55 early. Qualcomm has the right to channel 55 next Feb, but they wanted it earlier.

KFMB is transmitting on channel 7 at a low power level and a null to the north, to reduce interfence to channel 7 (KABC) in L.A.

[Kansas Zephyr]

KFMB will move their digital signal to channel 8, when they turn off their analog signal next Feb.

KFMB was transmitting their digital signal on channel 55. They moved to channel 7, so Qualcomm could get the use of channel 55 early. Qualcomm has the right to channel 55 next Feb, but they wanted it earlier.

KFMB is transmitting on channel 7 at a low power level and a null to the north, to reduce interfence to channel 7 (KABC) in L.A.
Now that makes sense, since channel 8 is now, and will be for TV only.

The spectrum covering channels 52-69 is being removed from the TV service and sold to others.

[TomF]

KFMB will move their digital signal to channel 8, when they turn off their analog signal next Feb.

KFMB was transmitting their digital signal on channel 55. They moved to channel 7, so Qualcomm could get the use of channel 55 early. Qualcomm has the right to channel 55 next Feb, but they wanted it earlier.

KFMB is transmitting on channel 7 at a low power level and a null to the north, to reduce interfence to channel 7 (KABC) in L.A.
Absolutely right! Boy, I screwed up that story! You've both managed to correct everything that I had wrong, even though I knew the right info, but my typing hands just had a mind of their own. Sorry 'bout that!

The only thing I'd add is that fortunately, I'm still able to get their signal in spite of being almost directly north of them, but only eight miles away, on a canyon, with direct line-of-sight and no obstructions, although my signal has dropped from the upper 90's to the low 50's . Others farther north or lower in elevation have not been so fortunate.

[SandyEggo]

The only thing I'd add is that fortunately, I'm still able to get their signal in spite of being almost directly north of them, but only eight miles away, on a canyon, with direct line-of-sight and no obstructions, although my signal has dropped from the upper 90's to the low 50's . Others farther north or lower in elevation have not been so fortunate.

I am about 7.1 miles from KFMB transmitter site. About .5 miles NE of intersection of Mira Mesa Blvd & Camino Santa Fe.

I don't have any HDTV yet. I get my locals from DirecTV. I just purchased 2 Zenith DTT901 converter a week ago. I connected a 6 inch wire as an attenna. I didn't get any signal for KFMB, but did get KGTV, KSWB, KPBS, KUSI, and KNSD. I then changed to a 8 foot wire. Still no signal for KFMB, but now get a weak signal for KCBS, KTLA, KNBC, KOCE, and KDOC (these are 104 miles away). None of these get a strong enough signal for the box to consistantly display station ID. I also get an indication on the signal meter for some other LA stations, but not enough signal to get a picture. This is from my first floor. I use to watch the analog LA station on rabbit ears upstairs in my bedroom. I will have to try a digital box up there.