The mystery of rain fade...

[saleen351]

Here in Lauderdale, some days it pours like a hurricane and no rain fade, other days just some clouds and she's out then some channels work and others don't..

I've given up on trying to predict it,


:grin:

[bwaldron]

Here in Lauderdale, some days it pours like a hurricane and no rain fade, other days just some clouds and she's out then some channels work and others don't..

I've given up on trying to predict it,


:grin:

Not a mystery -- it's the (water filled) clouds in the signal path that get you. If the rain is coming from the "right" direction, it can be raining quite hard (as you note) without signal loss...if there is rain in the "wrong" direction, you can lose signal even when clear and sunny directly over you.

And MPEG2 (Ku-band) is much more resistant to rain fade than the newer MPEG4 HD (Ka-band) channels.

[JeffBowser]

And don't forget to have a good aim. It is possible to have 101's all at 97-100, and 103c's at 95-99 in this area. This will help.


Here in Lauderdale, some days it pours like a hurricane and no rain fade, other days just some clouds and she's out then some channels work and others don't..

I've given up on trying to predict it,


:grin:

[davring]

During the summer months it always rains when I want to watch the evening news, a simple OTA antenna cured that problem. Bwaldron is correct, line of sight is the issue, if it is storming over the Town of Davie(SW) I always loose the signal, but it can be pouring directly overhead with no loss.

[bonscott87]

It's not the rain on top of you that causes rain fade typically. It's the thick thunderstorms to the southwest and their rain that causes it.

[JeffBowser]

Exactly, and SW of most of us in this area is the Everglades, where the sea-breeze from the west collides with the sea-breeze from the east, building up some really massive thunder-boomers in the middle. They don't usually last long, though.

It's not the rain on top of you that causes rain fade typically. It's the thick thunderstorms to the southwest and their rain that causes it.

[Jhon69]

The rule is the larger the reflector the less the "rain fade".;)

[houskamp]

yep.. it's not whats on top of you it's whats southwest.. I consider it my early warning system.. all my weather comes from the southwest.. when it goes out it's time to batten down the hatches time... when the storm actualy hits it's back on already..

[RarefiedAir24]

Here in Lauderdale, some days it pours like a hurricane and no rain fade, other days just some clouds and she's out then some channels work and others don't..

I've given up on trying to predict it,


:grin:

You're preaching to the choir my friend.... Amen..

Yesterday, some nice clouds must have rolled in around this time, didn't rain but that didn't matter, lost the HD locals, the SD locals came in though..

[dreadlk]

I have the same problem, some channels like StarzW, CNN and Sprout TV and others drop out as soon as the rain starts up. I looked at my transponders and one's like 23, 27 and 31 go down as soon as the rain starts to fall. Normally they are in the high 80's low 90's while the rest are all in the high 90's. Hard to believe that the 10 point difference between those transponders make them drop out so easily.

[MIAMI1683]

Sorry to be off topic, but WOW theres alot of people here from S. FLA. I think thats great! On the rain fade thing. The people here are correct. It is all about the positioning of the clouds. Rain fade was not that bad when I lived there. It did happen though.

[dcowboy7]

im sure there is someone from san diego here saying "whats this rain fade thing ?"

[JeffBowser]

It's one of Comcast's favorite slams down here (rain-fade). One needs to say to them "yeah, but what happens when one of your line amplifiers gets stolen (frequent occurrence), shorted by torrential rain, or fried by lightning. Then the follow up question is "how long does it take you to repair\replace it". The resounding silence you get is all the answer you need.

[bonscott87]

It's one of Comcast's favorite slams down here (rain-fade). One needs to say to them "yeah, but what happens when one of your line amplifiers gets stolen (frequent occurrence), shorted by torrential rain, or fried by lightning. Then the follow up question is "how long does it take you to repair\replace it". The resounding silence you get is all the answer you need.

Yea, I had a cable salesman pull that on me once. I then asked him why I would trade my 5 minutes of rain fade for a 4 day outage with cable with it goes down because the wind blows a little. He really didn't have an answer for me. :D

[dgordo]

And don't forget to have a good aim. It is possible to have 101's all at 97-100, and 103c's at 95-99 in this area. This will help.

I don't agree with this anymore. I have 90-100 across the 103c and it loses signal every time it rains hard.

[bonscott87]

I don't agree with this anymore. I have 90-100 across the 103c and it loses signal every time it rains hard.

KA sats will go out before KU. Just a nature of the technology. A 90 on a KA isn't the same as a 90 on a KU. But again, I'll take that 5 minute outage vs. a week with cable any day.

[MIAMI1683]

KA sats will go out before KU. Just a nature of the technology. A 90 on a KA isn't the same as a 90 on a KU. But again, I'll take that 5 minute outage vs. a week with cable any day.

When we had our last hurricane (Wilma). Cable went down for 6 weeks in West Browrd. D* had emergency trucks rolling replacing lost dishes. I hooked up to a generator, and whola TV again. D* responded really fast. My dish was back up in like 4 days. Cable said "we don't know" but sent out bills anyway. :nono2:

[JeffBowser]

That's a pretty hard absolute - every time ? At any rate, it's not a cure, just a help. You'll not lose the signal is as light a rain as you would if your signals were already low, alternatively, it will go out less quickly, and come back that much faster. I think I have a pretty good feel for it, having had satellite in S. Florida for over a decade.

I don't agree with this anymore. I have 90-100 across the 103c and it loses signal every time it rains hard.

[JeffBowser]

I take my reflector down, so all I had to do was put it back up and fire my generator after the wind passed. After Wilma cable was down in my neighborhood for two months and bad for 3 months more past that.

When we had our last hurricane (Wilma). Cable went down for 6 weeks in West Browrd. D* had emergency trucks rolling replacing lost dishes. I hooked up to a generator, and whola TV again. D* responded really fast. My dish was back up in like 4 days. Cable said "we don't know" but sent out bills anyway. :nono2:

[CJTE]

im sure there is someone from san diego here saying "whats this rain fade thing ?"

We call it humidity fade :lol:

In vegas... Its "sand fade" (as almost every time the wind kicks up some dust I seem to get a little pixellization. Thankfully its a rare occurance.

[ziggy29]

im sure there is someone from san diego here saying "whats this rain fade thing ?"
Could be worse. Here in Texas these days, we're asking "what's this thing you call rain?"

[tadtam]

When I owned a General Store in Vermont the signal would start to pixlelate and in 10 minutes +/- 2 minutes it would pour. I would tell my customers, "Better get to your car, it will be pouring in about 10 minutes."

They thought I was psychic not just psycho :grin:

[Upstream]

After Wilma cable was down in my neighborhood for two months


Two months? That's obscene.

[Upstream]

When I owned a General Store in Vermont the signal would start to pixlelate and in 10 minutes +/- 2 minutes it would pour. I would tell my customers, "Better get to your car, it will be pouring in about 10 minutes."

They thought I was psychic not just psycho :grin:


My wife considers DirecTV to be our weather prediction system. That's how we know when to bring the dog inside.

[JeffBowser]

That's funny!

Upstream - yes it was obscene. However, we didn't have power for 5 weeks. Wilma was quite strong through here, and we had major transmission lines laid flat. Comcast's problem was their poles and lines were down, and most of their line amps were gone. They were ill-equipped and ill-funded for something of the magnitude of Wilma.

When I owned a General Store in Vermont the signal would start to pixlelate and in 10 minutes +/- 2 minutes it would pour. I would tell my customers, "Better get to your car, it will be pouring in about 10 minutes."

They thought I was psychic not just psycho :grin:

[RunnerFL]

When we had our last hurricane (Wilma). Cable went down for 6 weeks in West Browrd. D* had emergency trucks rolling replacing lost dishes. I hooked up to a generator, and whola TV again. D* responded really fast. My dish was back up in like 4 days. Cable said "we don't know" but sent out bills anyway. :nono2:

I brought my dish inside during Wilma, and the hurricanes before that as well. If it weren't for being without power for 2 weeks I could have had TV when the rain stopped.

My next door neighbor didn't have cable for 2 months. AND they charged him for those 2 months.

[SPACEMAKER]

I've lost signal due to heavy raing 3 or 4 times over the past month. But it's only because the storms were pretty severe.

[FireMedic8039]

Every storm is different. Some thick clouds. Nada. Some rain. It's ok. Sometimes switching to another sat feed is ok. Since every afternoon lately has been pouring. It's a crapshoot. There's no method. Heck I get a hiccup when a jet is landing through my spot beam at PBIA.

[MartyS]

When we had our last hurricane (Wilma). Cable went down for 6 weeks in West Browrd. D* had emergency trucks rolling replacing lost dishes. I hooked up to a generator, and whola TV again. D* responded really fast. My dish was back up in like 4 days. Cable said "we don't know" but sent out bills anyway. :nono2:

After Hurricane Wilma ComCrap was out of service in Boca for about 10 weeks. Power was out for 9 days. Power came up... fired up my old D* TiVo and I had all the TV I needed. So, I agree... and I pretty much dumped Comcast over the last year as I had the house re-wired for D*. I'll live with the short rain fade, but probably need to have my dish re-aligned, since it was installed before the new signals came out.

A little tweaking may go a long way!

[saleen351]

Every storm is different. Some thick clouds. Nada. Some rain. It's ok. Sometimes switching to another sat feed is ok. Since every afternoon lately has been pouring. It's a crapshoot. There's no method. Heck I get a hiccup when a jet is landing through my spot beam at PBIA.

When they switch to the cross wind runway at Hollywood/Lauderdale, my signal drops for a second when a plane lands.

[dshu82]

Good to see all my "neighbors" around here!

Good idea taking the dish in if hurricane coming (only been here 2 years). Luckily I have it in a spot where I can get to it easily.

[K4SMX]

I don't take my dish down during hurricanes, because it's in a very protected spot on the west side of the house, which itself is shielded by a very high and close hedge. Running on generator during the direct hit from Hurricane Jeane, I had my longest total rain fade time to date - one hour on each side of the "eye." It was several months before Comcast was restored in most locations here, which is why I don't use them for an ISP either. BellSouth DSL was 24/7, because it's all buried around here, and they have some serious battery back-up. :)

<- - - And that's the source of the avatar.

[dgordo]

That's a pretty hard absolute - every time ? At any rate, it's not a cure, just a help. You'll not lose the signal is as light a rain as you would if your signals were already low, alternatively, it will go out less quickly, and come back that much faster. I think I have a pretty good feel for it, having had satellite in S. Florida for over a decade.

Yes, every time. I have had directv since 1997 and never had the rain faid issues like this until they started using the 103c.

[JeffBowser]

Yeah, Stew, I wince everytime I see your avatar. Wilma wrecked my neighborhood - my stupid neighbor has these giant ficus trees reaching into our house supply lines, and they ripped them right out of the transformer, rendering a group of 4 houses powerless 3 weeks beyond the time the rest of the neighborhood was restored. FPL won't do anything because they aren't up into the high voltage lines.
Good point about BellSouth DSL - that stayed up for me the entire time, too.

I don't take my dish down during hurricanes, because it's in a very protected spot on the west side of the house, which itself is shielded by a very high and close hedge. Running on generator during the direct hit from Hurricane Jeane, I had my longest total rain fade time to date - one hour on each side of the "eye." It was several months before Comcast was restored in most locations here, which is why I don't use them for an ISP either. BellSouth DSL was 24/7, because it's all buried around here, and they have some serious battery back-up. :)

<- - - And that's the source of the avatar.

[rey_1178]

Yea, I had a cable salesman pull that on me once. I then asked him why I would trade my 5 minutes of rain fade for a 4 day outage with cable with it goes down because the wind blows a little. He really didn't have an answer for me. :D

correct. they're not immune to outages. rather face the rain fade with sat.

[ziggy29]

I don't take my dish down during hurricanes, because it's in a very protected spot on the west side of the house, which itself is shielded by a very high and close hedge.
We lived in Houston when Rita came close by. As it turned out, the only damage to our house -- other than a ridiculous amount of branches in the yard -- was that our dish fell over.

I was able to reposition it temporarily until we could get an installer to come by and re-secure it. He mentioned that the first guy who did the install did a half-assed job and didn't secure it with the proper bolts. The first really strong winds were destined to knock it over.

[bwaldron]

I don't take my dish down during hurricanes, because it's in a very protected spot on the west side of the house, which itself is shielded by a very high and close hedge. Running on generator during the direct hit from Hurricane Jeane, I had my longest total rain fade time to date - one hour on each side of the "eye."

My dish is also very well protected and low to the ground, and I have always kept it up during storms. Jeanne did a number on my fences and trashed my 10-foot BUD (installed in a less protected area), but my DirecTV (Phase III dish at the time) worked like a champ throughout the storm -- because of the path the storm took and our location on this side of the state, I never had a single moment of fade.

[bwaldron]

Yes, every time. I have had directv since 1997 and never had the rain faid issues like this until they started using the 103c.

Yes, the new Ka-band channels definitely are more susceptible to fade. It's a bit of a PITA this time of year...but not enough to make me think of moving to cable or even FIOS.

[dduitsman]

I don't take my dish down during hurricanes, because it's in a very protected spot on the west side of the house, which itself is shielded by a very high and close hedge. Running on generator during the direct hit from Hurricane Jeane, I had my longest total rain fade time to date - one hour on each side of the "eye." It was several months before Comcast was restored in most locations here, which is why I don't use them for an ISP either. BellSouth DSL was 24/7, because it's all buried around here, and they have some serious battery back-up. :)

<- - - And that's the source of the avatar.
Ahhh, I always wondered what the story was behind your "radar map" avatar.

dd

[K4SMX]

That hurricane was a personal experience I'll never forget. Having near continuous TV reception through the whole ordeal was quite reassuring, since I was alone and it was real noisy outside. Watching the SD local 101/tp 28 signal strength come back up from zero as the eye passed over was a great sight.

It was a good thing I was there, because a set of French doors in an otherwise-protected location blew open, and I was able to grab a 2 x 4 and some ring-shank nails from the garage and board them up. It was quite a struggle. Then I drilled deck screws through the doors to the board from the inside. It was a project to get that board loose later.:)

[Dan Burgess]

You Florida people are amazing. During winter, you love how warm it is down there compared to up north. But it seems like in the summer it rains daily, sometimes causing rain fade, and in August and September hurricanes destroy complete houses and entire neighborhoods.

Here in Chicago we've had a wet and cool spring, my lawn is green as can be (though it has to be mowed every five days), my rain barrels are full of water, and the satellite signal hardly ever goes out. And the Cubs (and White Sox, for now) are in first place. The autumn promises to be even more pleasant. Life is good!

[Grentz]

Never had any major issues with rainfade. Honestly in 12 years of having directv it is not a very common occurance and when it does go out, it is usually only for a little bit and only during very severe storms.

We still have an attic mount OTA antenna that we can switch too for watching the news when the weather really goes sour.

Overall the new 5LNB dish has helped the issue as well, barely goes out at all anymore. The HD stations occasionally will with a bad storm, but the 101 and such stay pretty darn solid unless it is REALLY bad out.


People who complain or say rain fade is a negative of satellite have never honestly owned satellite IMO or they have a badly aligned dish. Cable goes out MUCH more often and for MUCH longer periods of time from what I have seen/heard from friends near me that have cable that goes out a lot.

Also remember many cable centers are feed via satellite downlinks, they are much larger dishes usually so less susptible to rain fade, but it can still happen in VERY severe storms.

[bwaldron]

People who complain or say rain fade is a negative of satellite have never honestly owned satellite IMO or they have a badly aligned dish.

No, I wouldn't go that far. For those of us down here in Florida (and some other places as well), fade is a real issue during rainy season, and it is a negative of satellite -- even with a very well-aligned dish, and especially on the new HD (Ka-band) channels.

However, it is (for me and many others) not so much of a negative as to outweigh the many positives of DirecTV vs. the competition. They have their own negatives, as you note.

[JeffBowser]

You think backwards. Our summer is our equivalent to your winter. The pansies among us down here stay inside during the summer because they don't like heat or humidity, and it does rain just about every afternoon for a bit. So, it's no different than you being cooped up inside during the winter, only more tolerable. Our garden and outdoor season here starts around November, just about when you all up there are giving up, getting fat, and going into hibernation.

That being said, summer is great down here from my perspective. All the tourists have gone back home, no more lines for dinner, and I don't mind heat and humidty one bit, I was raised in it.

You Florida people are amazing. During winter, you love how warm it is down there compared to up north. But it seems like in the summer it rains daily, sometimes causing rain fade, and in August and September hurricanes destroy complete houses and entire neighborhoods.

Here in Chicago we've had a wet and cool spring, my lawn is green as can be (though it has to be mowed every five days), my rain barrels are full of water, and the satellite signal hardly ever goes out. And the Cubs (and White Sox, for now) are in first place. The autumn promises to be even more pleasant. Life is good!

[mystic7]

Sorry to be off topic, but WOW theres alot of people here from S. FLA. I think thats great! On the rain fade thing. The people here are correct. It is all about the positioning of the clouds. Rain fade was not that bad when I lived there. It did happen though.

What's even greater, to me, is that I USED to live in Fort Lauderdale :D

[mystic7]

You Florida people are amazing. During winter, you love how warm it is down there compared to up north. But it seems like in the summer it rains daily, sometimes causing rain fade, and in August and September hurricanes destroy complete houses and entire neighborhoods.

Here in Chicago we've had a wet and cool spring, my lawn is green as can be (though it has to be mowed every five days), my rain barrels are full of water, and the satellite signal hardly ever goes out. And the Cubs (and White Sox, for now) are in first place. The autumn promises to be even more pleasant. Life is good!

I'm not as far north as you but I agree. I lived in S. Florida for 17 years and, after the novelty of year round summer wore off, I hated it. And their winters aren't all that great. Once you get "used" to the heat there, winters are too cold to go to the beach, even when it's 65-75*, if you're even lucky enough to get that cool.

The only benefit to living in S. Florida is if you're such a beach bum that the lifestyle appeals to you. Frankly the beaches aren't all that great. Jones Beach in NY is much nicer than any beach in S. Florida (except for Haulover Beach, heheheheh...)

[JeffBowser]

That's just one opinion, one which I disagree with.

I'm not as far north as you but I agree. I lived in S. Florida for 17 years and, after the novelty of year round summer wore off, I hated it. And their winters aren't all that great. Once you get "used" to the heat there, winters are too cold to go to the beach, even when it's 65-75*, if you're even lucky enough to get that cool.

The only benefit to living in S. Florida is if you're such a beach bum that the lifestyle appeals to you. Frankly the beaches aren't all that great. Jones Beach in NY is much nicer than any beach in S. Florida (except for Haulover Beach, heheheheh...)

[PressureContent]

I look at it as an early warning system. When the fade happens, I have just enough time to go outside and close the car windows. And this has happened only once since upgrading to HD in Jan. Other than that, it would happen several times throughout the summer since '99.....I must of had a good install.

[dgordo]

You think backwards. Our summer is our equivalent to your winter. The pansies among us down here stay inside during the summer because they don't like heat or humidity, and it does rain just about every afternoon for a bit. So, it's no different than you being cooped up inside during the winter, only more tolerable. Our garden and outdoor season here starts around November, just about when you all up there are giving up, getting fat, and going into hibernation.

That being said, summer is great down here from my perspective. All the tourists have gone back home, no more lines for dinner, and I don't mind heat and humidty one bit, I was raised in it.


I agree with your thinking. I love Chicago winters. Not nearly as many tourists because they cant handle the cold and snow but I have no problem with the winter weather, I was raised here. My only issue is I live in Chicago, not the suburbs, so between thanksgiving and Christmas half of Wisconsin and Iowa show up to shop because they have the same weather.:mad:

[FireMedic8039]

That hurricane was a personal experience I'll never forget. Having near continuous TV reception through the whole ordeal was quite reassuring, since I was alone and it was real noisy outside. Watching the SD local 101/tp 28 signal strength come back up from zero as the eye passed over was a great sight.

It was a good thing I was there, because a set of French doors in an otherwise-protected location blew open, and I was able to grab a 2 x 4 and some ring-shank nails from the garage and board them up. It was quite a struggle. Then I drilled deck screws through the doors to the board from the inside. It was a project to get that board loose later.:)

I know what you mean. I came home after 35 hours straight in the ER. Make a long story short. I have a new roof. I had to pick up insulation and roof tile from the apts. 1/2 mile up the street from the front yard that was wrapped around the trees.

And yes rain fade is more often than the old single and 3lnb days. I dont have one TS under 96%, and it still happends. But I'm out west where the boomers like to form before they head to the beach.

And being a native. Wilma ranked up there with Cleo, Betsy and Donna for me.

[dreadlk]

Rain fade on certain channels is a very real here in south florida, it's not just very heavy rain that does it. Yes it's worst with the Ka but it also affects some of the weaker Ku band channels and thats with dishes that have 100's on many of the Ku transponders during normal days.



People who complain or say rain fade is a negative of satellite have never honestly owned satellite IMO or they have a badly aligned dish. Cable goes out MUCH more often and for MUCH longer periods of time from what I have seen/heard from friends near me that have cable that goes out a lot.
.

[hdtvfan0001]

Round and round we go....

Here's another thread on this...perhaps they can combine them?

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=132031

There's not enough rain to go around anyway.... :lol: :lol:

[JeffBowser]

:lol: Nothing better to do lately.

Round and round we go....

Here's another thread on this...perhaps they can combine them?

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=132031

There's not enough rain to go around anyway.... :lol: :lol:

[hdtvfan0001]

:lol: Nothing better to do lately.
It must be rainin' on many people's minds today... :D

[curt8403]

It must be rainin' on many people's minds today... :D


better than enduring William Shatner singing Mr Tamborine Man.

[hdtvfan0001]

better than enduring William Shatner singing Mr Tamborine Man.
We need to let that image fade for sure.... :D