DISH Serious About HDTV

[Steve Mehs]

EchoStar CEO Charlie Ergen told DISH Network viewers this week that HDTV is a priority for the satellite TV company.

Ergen, during his monthly "Charlie Chat" with DISH Network customers Monday, said his company is always eyeing new HDTV programming. "We want to have those discussions" with programmers that are creating high-def content, he said.

While no specific HDTV programming additions were announced during the chat this week, Ergen pointed out to viewers that ESPN is readying launch of its HD fare, HDNet continues to attract attention, and that NBC is ready to expand its HDTV slate.

The DishPVR 921, a new personal video recorder (PVR) set-top box that can record HDTV programming, should be available for consumers in late summer or early fall, Ergen said.

From SkyReport (http://www.skyreport.com/skyreport/mar2003/031203.shtm#four) (Used with Permission)

[RAD]

If he was really serious he'd have the boys in the labs working 24x7 to get the 921 and other HDTV STB's they're supposed to be working on out the door. Dish needs something to compete with all those nifty STB's that DirecTV has to offer the consumer. TIVO's also talking about a PVR late this year, Dish had been saying the 921 would be out this month, then that month and so on. Charlie has a chance to really become the leader but if he waits too long DirecTV might surprise him.

[sampatterson]

I think he does have people working 24/7 on the 921 (and 721/921 software). One of the delays may be price of components. If they are trying to get the price sub 1K then a few month wait before they start manufacturing in bulk could mean several hundred dollars off the component prices.

[Scott Greczkowski]

The 921 WILL beat any HD Tivo product to the market.

No Specs on the HD TIVO have been announced as of yet and no manufacturers have be announced as well.

For the most part the 921 has finished specs and final touches are being put on the unit before it goes into production.

My feeling was that DirecTV and TIVO threw together a demo unit for the CES show just so Dish did not one up them on the floor with a HD recordable PVR unit.

[Karl Foster]

Let's be realistic here. My question is how many subs actually have (need) HD service. I know many here do, as this is a pretty technical, cutting-edge forum, but for the average joe subscriber like my parents, what is all this research and effort into HDTV doing for them? Is E* expending so much time and money into HD development that the average sub is being left behind? Are there any new standard receivers with new features coming out, something with a better, faster guide and DD? The 301 is pretty sub-par from what I have seen compared to what I own from the competition (RCA and Mitsubishi). What new is coming down the pike for them? Just a thought.

[Kagato]

I guess it depends on how far sighted Dish is. Some industy articles think that this year will be HD's first big year as prices are now in the consumer range. Retailers like Best Buy are devoting huge ammounts of floor space to HD. 482 stations are broadcasting DTV, cable is finally stepping up to the plate in major markets. HD sales are up, and will continue to be up. I'd say go ahead full steam, at worst it will cost you a 1/1000 of the failed merger penalty. At best you'll be in great position if the market hits critical mass.

[LarryH]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
My feeling was that DirecTV and TIVO threw together a demo unit for the CES show just so Dish did not one up them on the floor with a HD recordable PVR unit.

I was at CES. The DirectTV HD-PVR display was pathetic. Their box wasn't even plugged in! When I asked the rep to demo it he said that it wasn't functional (he wouldn't even turn it on). When I asked about availability, he said "hopefully" late 03. On the other hand, Dish had a fully functional 921 on display. They even let the customers operate the unit themselves. At that time, it appeared that Dish was at least 6 months ahead of DirectTV on the HD-PVR front.

[JohnH]

BTW: ESPN-HD was found on C band yesterday. There is an Alternate ESPN-HD as well.

[BobMurdoch]

Originally posted by karl_f
Let's be realistic here. My question is how many subs actually have (need) HD service. I know many here do, as this is a pretty technical, cutting-edge forum, but for the average joe subscriber like my parents, what is all this research and effort into HDTV doing for them? Is E* expending so much time and money into HD development that the average sub is being left behind? Are there any new standard receivers with new features coming out, something with a better, faster guide and DD? The 301 is pretty sub-par from what I have seen compared to what I own from the competition (RCA and Mitsubishi). What new is coming down the pike for them? Just a thought.

I resisted upgrading to a HD capable monitor as I felt that there were still standards being argued against. I usually wait for the third generation of a new technology before I jump onboard.

I just got a Sony KP-57WV600 for our household this Christmas as I felt that the price had fallen and the standards stabilized sufficiently to get in. The DVI HDCP input insures that I will be able to see the content regardless of what Hollywood does, and the price had fallen below the $3000 barrier that I set for myself (I got it for $2699 at Circuit City via a price match, thanks to "The Wiz" for doing one more good deed for me before they fade into oblivion.)

Now that I have the HD monitor I am chomping at the bit to feed it a HD signal. Not enough to get me to dump my PVR, but enough that I REALLY want to get it. I'm planning on buying one the day it becomes available, unless it is $1400 or more.

No, Joe SixPack does not have one yet, but there are a LOT of people buying HD capable monitors, with most of them only being used to watch DVDs and standard TV. As we are mostly well versed early adopters here, we need some content to help pull our friends and neighbors into the future with us. DBS needs to do this NOW, before Cable retakes the lead. For years, DBS has had the technological advantage with more channels, digital quality (no flames please about pixelation and compression issues -- I'm referring to the lack of ghosting and multipath interference), and Dolby Digital sound (I wish more would offer it). They are rapidly in danger of becoming obsolete if they don't maintain that lead.

Once they rest on their laurels, the subscriber growth rate will stop and maybe even reverse as the cable guys remove most of the competitive advantages they have enjoyed.

To get back to your point, I agree that they need some more midrange receivers. But the 301 should be suitable for most people looking to just plug a receiver into the coax port on the back of their 20" TV . People have become more attuned to Home Theater over the last few years, mostly due to the explosion in popularity of DVD's driving Home Theater sales. In the last 5 years, my parents and my sister invested in Home Theater systems with 5 speakers and a subwoofer, and they never had anything but a VCR plugged into a TV before that point. My inlaws are next on the list as they just bought a 53" rear projection TV and are shopping for Home Theater in a Box systems (I'm trying to get them to upgrade, actually, to a more robust system than these prepackaged setups). So yes, I do think that mainstream America is coming around to the higher end.

[JohnH]

Bob, some outfit is buying the WIZ from Cablevision. Maybe it won't fade into oblivion.

[Jacob S]

Charlie had better get things going and make a big big effort because if he is going to be the HD leader, then he better have more channels than ExpressVu or CableVisions New Rainbow Satellite Service launching at the end of the year, but I guess Charlie is talking about being the leader just in the US, but it would still be hard to compete against Rainbow if they offer as many channels as they said they were going to offer. Charlie better get on the ball.

[jeffwtux]

To Kagato: the problem with cable as always is fragmentation. What is a large market to one company can be a tiny village to another. For instance, here in Farmington Hills, Mich, a wealthy inner suburb of Detroit, we have Time Warner Cable. Time Warner views the entire metro Detroit area as a tiny market, because they only have 4 suburbs in the entire state of Michigan. Fragmentation is always the #1 problem with cable. Some suburbs/towns would be better off if there was only 1 cable company nationwide that owned everything. So, while all the surrounding Comcast suburbs and Detroit, already have HDTV or will have within a couple of months, we won't for over a year.

[dishrich]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
The 921 WILL beat any HD Tivo product to the market.

No Specs on the HD TIVO have been announced as of yet and no manufacturers have be announced as well.

For the most part the 921 has finished specs and final touches are being put on the unit before it goes into production.

My feeling was that DirecTV and TIVO threw together a demo unit for the CES show just so Dish did not one up them on the floor with a HD recordable PVR unit.

Scott - UNTIL those 921's hit the streets, (which for all you know might be ANOTHER year) you DON'T know how good/bad it's gonna be. And let's NOT even talk about all the bugs that have been inherent in EVERY SINGLE E* receiver, every time they first come out! (seems you have posted a bug or two about your own 721...;) ;) ) AND, Tivo's has an excellent track record of NOT introducing units until they have been throughly beta-tested, means that a "working" (as opposed to a buggy) HD-PVR might just come from D* first.

Oh BTW, if the 921 STILL does NOT do "name-based" recording (a la Tivo) like it's E* predecessors, it'still a poor-man's Tivo. :lol:

[Kagato]

That's true, jeff, but I think that plays into being forward thinking with DBS. In the Minneapolis/St. Paul area it's the oppisite. Time Warner is ahead of the game, ATT comcast is still thinking about rolling HD (And we're the 14th largest media market). DBS will only become stronger from Cables misteps.

Eventually cost of the STB will drop. Bandwidth will always be an issue though. HD leader may only mean national channel HD leader, and not local.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
The 921 WILL beat any HD Tivo product to the market.

How do you know that for sure, Scott? Do you have some info we don't?

IMO, it's too early to tell which HDTV PVR will be better.

[JohnH]

When I win one I'll let you know how it works. :)
If it is a 921, it had better support 4-sat legacy setups from the get go.

[Jerry 42]

Adding my 1-1/2 cents.

1- I think HDTV will be the next 'hot" item for the home just as DVD now is.
2- DBS can take the lead over cable in HDTV IF it acts fast enough. This could mean more subs and $$$ to them. There is the old saw 'It's all about programming"
3- I have just seen a HD PVR which will be in stores this month I think the target price is $799. E* could lose here as you can record HD from any HD source E* or D* or OTA on the machine. If there are more of these type HD PVR units by others in the pipeline and out before the 921 - E*could lose out.
4- While the Dish PVRs have good features, as I am away on locations a good deal of time, the TiVo season pass option and being able to call-in recording requests is great. For my wife - non teckie - TiVo is just plain easy. I think Dish should think about some type of TiVo deal or TiVo like functions for its PVRs
5- TiVo says it will have a HD Tivo shortly, who knows what shorty is. If it is before the 921, for me it will take the 921 off my must have off list. I am on the 921 pre order list but a HD PVR with TiVo like functions would make me cancel.

Well this might have been 2 cents worth not 1 - 1/2. Sorry

[Scott Greczkowski]

Originally posted by raj2001


How do you know that for sure, Scott? Do you have some info we don't?

IMO, it's too early to tell which HDTV PVR will be better.

I can't say which HDTV PVR will be better, but I feel very safe to say that I expect the 921 to be the first HD Satellite PVR Receiver to the market. :)

[raj2001]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski


I can't say which HDTV PVR will be better, but I feel very safe to say that I expect the 921 to be the first HD Satellite PVR Receiver to the market. :)

Oh, okay. That's probably a safe assumption, given the fact that E* had a working model at CES.

[gpflepsen]

Originally posted by Jerry 42
3- I have just seen a HD PVR which will be in stores this month I think the target price is $799.

:confused:

Who what where???

[Jerry 42]

I work at a Paramount - the video post production department had it. The guys are checking it out for me and will let me know.

[Ken_F]

I have just seen a HD PVR which will be in stores this month I think the target price is $799.

Who what where???Zenith has the first HDTV PVR coming out in mid-May. It has a MSRP of $999 but only offers PVR functionality (pause, instant replay, recording, etc) for over-the-air broadcasts. It has one tuner and only a 80Gb hard drive, for a 8-10 hours HDTV recording time. That said, a Korean-language version of this model has been selling for quite some time (yes, its actually shipping outside US), and that version can be upgraded by the end-user to at least a 120Gb drive--for about ~14 hours recording time.

Here's a recent article (http://www.newsalert.com/bin/story?StoryId=CpM6:0bWbq0DxmdeY&Topic=Digital%20TV&Nav=pr-prmynews-). From the Zenith press release (http://www.zenith.com/sub_news/news_Display.asp?action=view&id=485&cat=&year=):HDR230 HDTV Receiver/Personal Video Recorder combines Zenith’s latest-generation ATSC terrestrial tuner with an 80-gigabyte hard disc recorder — allowing storage and playback of more than eight hours of HDTV programming — for an irresistible marriage of performance and convenience. Features include basic on-screen navigation using a PSIP-based (Program System Information Protocol) electronic program guide, Dolby Digital® recording, live pause, variable rate trick play, a variety of fast- and slow-motion capabilities, record file management, aspect ratio control and high connectivity via RGB, Component, S-Video and A/V outputs. The HDR230 is expected to be available from Zenith dealers in the second quarter at a suggested price of $999.

HD-PVR330 HDTV Receiver/Personal Video Recorder with the new TV Guide® on-screen interactive program guide, is a versatile next-generation HDTV-PVR designed to provide an enhanced viewing/recording experience. It is equipped with a high-gain ATSC tuner for HDTV terrestrial reception and a QAM (Quadrature Amplitude Modulation) tuner for unscrambled HDTV cable reception, as well as an NTSC tuner for standard-definition analog reception. A generous 80-gigabyte hard disc drive allows viewers to record and play back more than eight hours of HDTV programming while taking full advantage of the advanced, intuitive on-screen navigation system and program listings service from TV Guide. The service instantly delivers seven days of listings of all shows, with a new service that “tags” favorite shows for easier surfing –– plus news, sports and weather information –– all at the push of a button. Additional features include Dolby Digital recording, a video browser using thumbnail images, live pause, drag and play, smart skip, a 300X fast-forward speed, and a jack package with DVI + HDCP (Digital Visual Interface with High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection), RGB, Component, S-Video, and A/V outputs for super connectivity. The HD-PVR330 is expected to be available in the third quarter at a suggested price to be announced.

Of course, if you work in the broadcast industry, there are already a number of HD PVR-type devices costing many thousands of dollars. But the Zenith model looks to be the first consumer HD PVR product; however, again, it will not support satellite HDTV.

[Frank Z]

Originally posted by Steve Mehs
EchoStar CEO Charlie Ergen told DISH Network viewers this week that HDTV is a priority for the satellite TV company.



That's all fin and dandy, now if he would get more than 2 HD-PPV movies a month...that would be progress!

[Mike123abc]

DirecTV was voted best in HDTV... I wonder if Dish will try to get the award next year!

http://www.ce.org/press_room/press_release_detail.asp?id=10175

[jerryez]

I read the article and it looks to me like they were best in DTV. Isn't that digital TV, and all their channels are digital. Right? I do not see HDTV mentioned.