Yes and Cablevision Settle [Archive]

spanishannouncetable

03-12-03, 05:00 PM

from the article -

“It clearly is something that NY fans care about,” Bloomberg said during a 6:30 p.m. press conference. “The important thing is that no matter what cable system you have, you will be able to watch two great major league baseball teams play.”

Unless your "cable system" is Dish Network :p

"Cablevision lost 39,400 subscribers last year."

Now we know how many subs Directv picked up because of this one channel. Echostar could have had half of them, but noooooooo...

Should we start a pool, guessing what day Charlie caves in and adds YES now that Cablevision is on board ?

Dgenx321

03-12-03, 05:21 PM

He'll still claim it is too high and will never add it or not for years. Case in point FSW2

It\'s_time_charlie

03-12-03, 05:56 PM

Charlie better add the YES network because I am going to give it great consideration to switch to cablevision or digital cable.

I think if Charlie does not add this station now that Cablevision will get it he is going lose many more customers not just to Direct TV but to cablevision as well, Digital cable.

I’m a Nets and Yankee fan and he only reason I did not switch to DTV was that I just did not want it, but cablevision is going to get yes, so I will have no problem switching to it.

Ronmort

03-12-03, 05:56 PM

It's too high for him. He started a rift among many of his customers by exaggerating the cost of YES. Yeah, he's very interested in pleasing his subscribers with his low profit margin, and yet he continues to be listed among the richest people in the world. I wonder where he gets his personal profit while he tells us that adding YES will cause a price hike for the subscribers of his poor struggling company. Give me a break!

As far as Cablevision is concerned, that company had a personal vendetta against YES because the Yankees were previous to last year on MSG. Does anyone really believe this was over the fees Yes was demanding? Ergen used this ploy to jump on the bandwagon with Cablevision to make himself look like a hero with some of his sports hating subscribers who passed around all his B.S. all over forums like this. He wouldn't want to cut down on his piece of the pie for many of his subs who wanted their sports networks like everone else across the country.

rolou21

03-12-03, 05:59 PM

Well since I have heard the news this evening....I made several calls to E* and clearly explained that now this dispute to that cheap Charlie to get off his butt and get this channel signed. I have had it with this company......I said "3 weeks" and counting or I will get a Hdvr2 and watch some real programming!

rolou21

03-12-03, 06:01 PM

Well since I have heard the news this evening....I made several calls to E* and clearly explained that now this dispute is over to have that cheap Charlie get off his butt and get this channel signed. I have had it with this company......I said "3 weeks" and counting or I will get a Hdvr2 and watch some real programming!

motjes2

03-12-03, 08:26 PM

Well. I am a Yankee Fan but I'm not ready to dump E*. Cablevision is my IP and I still have two cable boxes with them. So I will be getting Yes no matter what Charlie decides. However, it will be good if could add it since I can use my pvr otherwise I have to watch it live.

Charlie get over it and say yes to YES. Are you the only one who is not going to carry it? It is a regional network. What are you going to do when the Devils also move to YES?

TNGTony

03-12-03, 08:40 PM

Remember folks, that $2 a subscriber (I know just from the NY/NJ/CN market, but that is a cost of $1.85 to $2.30 per subscriber (from that area) additional each and every month! That money has to come from somewhere. And I know that if you defray the cost throughout the country it's more like $.40 per Dish subscriber. But that is another price hike you will all be complaing about next year! This whole thing could be settled if YES would have accepted the very reasonable terms that Dish layed out. It's an a la carte channel and YES gets to set the price and keep EVERY dime of the subscription fee. Yes turned that down. So it's not "cheap Charlie", it's "stubborn George" that's responsible for this.

And now the Cubs as thinking of starting their own channel. Where does it stop? How many more sports channels do I have to subsidise? Where is the line drawn? Charlie picked his spot and is sticking to it. Great!

BTW I don't know what the regional gains were last year, but nationally, Dish gained more subs last year than ANY other pay service in the country without YES.

See ya
Tony

Ronmort

03-12-03, 09:07 PM

Here we go again!

spanishannouncetable

03-12-03, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by TNGTony
Remember folks, that $2 a subscriber (I know just from the NY/NJ/CN market, but that is a cost of $1.85 to $2.30 per subscriber (from that area) additional each and every month! That money has to come from somewhere. And I know that if you defray the cost throughout the country it's more like $.40 per Dish subscriber. But that is another price hike you will all be complaing about next year! This whole thing could be settled if YES would have accepted the very reasonable terms that Dish layed out. It's an a la carte channel and YES gets to set the price and keep EVERY dime of the subscription fee. Yes turned that down. So it's not "cheap Charlie", it's "stubborn George" that's responsible for this.

And now the Cubs as thinking of starting their own channel. Where does it stop? How many more sports channels do I have to subsidise? Where is the line drawn? Charlie picked his spot and is sticking to it. Great!

BTW I don't know what the regional gains were last year, but nationally, Dish gained more subs last year than ANY other pay service in the country without YES.

See ya
Tony

And over the last year there have numerous reports of Dish Network salespeople flat-out lying to both potential subs and current Directv subs about Directv's status ("we bought Directv","we merged with them","you need new equipment now", etc). How much of Echostar's growth is accounted for by this we may never know, but I bet the sales numbers a year from now will show a swing back to about equal sub # increases.

Why would it be $.40 per subscriber ? Let's suppose for a second that all 40,000 of those unhappy Cablevision-droppers signed up with Directv. TC+ & locals would be the package of choice (all televised Yankee games), so 40000 x $40 = $1.6 million in new sub revenue a month for Directv. Out of this, Directv pays YES about $800,000 (maybe 400,000 total YES subs in NY/NJ x $2), about $.072 per customer per month spread across the nationwide subscriber base of 11 million. If E* had jumped in and claimed half of these, the national per-sub price increase would have been $.15 a month. Directv saw the potential, and if they got even half of that I bet they would have been happy.

As many as 20,000 new subs, sending in additional revenues of $750,000 or more per month, forfeited because E* wouldn't pony up fifteen cents a month per subscriber. "Cheap Charlie" indeed.

(edited to correct math. I really shouldn't post 5 minutes before quitting work - I always forget something :D )

Fresco

03-12-03, 10:40 PM

Charlie is a billionaire!

Give me YES you cheapskate!

Wait a minute I am probably going to cancel my subscription to dish network. All I have to say is that Dish Network will be a thing of the past here in the NY/NJ area. What if the Mets decided to get there own RSN. Dish would probably not pick that up either.

I got the dish because I thought that it was the best thing for sports fans. I thought that was the purpose of having a Dish.

Well I’m sure that many sports bars in the NY/NJ area will have nothing to do with dish network. Especially now that Cablevision has the YES network.

I hope Dish Network gets YES before the NETS playoff games start. IF they don't then I will cancel my sub. I really don't want to but Charlie is leaving me no choice, especially now that cablevision (yes cablevision) is about to get the YES NETWORK!

If Dolan can work out a deal with YES then Charlie can as well.

Mike123abc

03-12-03, 11:24 PM

Well you read the article they really did not reach a deal... They agreed to negotiate until Feb 1, 2004 then go for arbitration. The reason CV refused intitally is that the rate for the channel could go up to $7/sub by 2007. YES also wants it in the most basic package so everyone that has a subscription gets it.

It is a bad situation. Before long every sports team will want to get their own network. But, now that CV gave in I bet Dish will be next to give.

TV38

03-12-03, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by TNGTony

And now the Cubs as thinking of starting their own channel. Where does it stop? How many more sports channels do I have to subsidise? Where is the line drawn? Charlie picked his spot and is sticking to it. Great!

BTW I don't know what the regional gains were last year, but nationally, Dish gained more subs last year than ANY other pay service in the country without YES.

See ya
Tony

That is the real issue - where does it stop? Are some of you the same people who were screaming about the $2 increase? There is going to have to be a way to charge those who are actually able to watch it to pay for it. What happens when three, four or five or more of these regionals start up?
Charlie said they gained more new subs than all other pay tv companies combined this past year. Guess they are doing something right.

TNGTony

03-13-03, 12:12 AM

Thanks table and fresco for COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT!!!

Charlie is a billionaire so he should buy is everything we want and not charge us for it! Otherwise he is a cheapskate.

So why doesn't that apply to George? HE is the one wanting to shove this channel down the throat of people who DONT WANT IT! HE is the one that REFUSED ANYTHING other than carriage on the most basic package. HE is the one that refused all alternatives and refused any compromise? This channel could have been carried by all involved from day one if GEORGE had been willing to deal. So why is it "Charlie's" or Cablevision's fault? I'm still waiting for some one to explain this to me with some reasonable arguments. Not emotional outbursts from grief-ridden sports fans suffering the DT's from Yankees baseball withdrawl who think that it's okay that people all over the country should pay more for their service (even if it's a penny!) so they can get an additional channel that would not be available to anyone outside the Yankees area. And if YES is added we WILL be paying more. There is no doubt about that.

See ya
Tony

Ronmort

03-13-03, 04:36 AM

I just thank the Lord everyday that the merger failed. I really like everything about Dish Network except that I live in the sports region of both Comcast Sports Net and YES. Comcast refuses to allow its signal on satellite, and no one in Washington has the guts to make a ruling which would end this anti-competitive arrangement. In the case of YES, I have a provider who just won't put it on its line-up. Even though I like the Philadelphia sports teams even more than New York's, I can live without that channel provided I see a reasonable amount of sports either through a sports package or other RSNs. Withour YES, I strike out again. The final straw is being carried toward the camel. DTV is providing my local channels in May, so it looks like I'm left with little choice. I really don't like leaving Dish, but I would have stayed if YES was on its line-up. I could get my locals through other means. The attraction of both locals and sports is jut too much for me. I am only one customer, so why should anyone care?

Richard King

03-13-03, 07:13 AM

Ah Tony, the voice of reason. I think half the problem is the extreme hatred of Charlie simply because he has been so successful. The fact that he is one of the wealthiest persons alive has no bearing on the negotiations for this or any other channel. His wealth is derived from the fact that he owns approx. 50% of the STOCK in Echostar, not from the fiction that he is draining so much money from the company that they can't afford programming. But then, anyone with a high school knowledge of economics would know this.

cnsf

03-13-03, 07:42 AM

Tony,

I agree with your comments on Charlie and George.

The real issue though is that there are many professional sports teams in NY. They are all carried in the locals package or on a basic cable package. It doesn't seem fair that the fans get shafted because of a personal dispute.

What should happen is that YES is carried as part of the NY locals package and is considered a loss leader. The increase in subs (the loss of 40K subs does not account for those who decided to sign w/D*, not CV) would help Dish overall in subsidizing that loss. They make money on the other packages and NYers tend to get the bigger packages. I say this because we have such high cable rates, people are willing to pay the same amount ($60+ for just the AT100 equivalent) for more channels and better quality signals. The only tough borough to get subs is Manhattan.

ClearCom

03-13-03, 07:54 AM

OK, here is the deal, according to Charlie.
I spoke directly to him at last years Team Summit and flat out asked what the deal was with YES. The reply was very simple.
He told me, "that if Cablevision signs on, so will DISH. I do not want to be the lone standout to not carry YES."

Lets see if he puts his money where his mouth is!

dbronstein

03-13-03, 07:58 AM

cnsf,

Why should Dish have to carry it as a loss leader? What is wrong with them wanting to cover their costs on it? Direc has been carrying sports as a loss leader for several years now (the Sunday ticket being the primary one) and they lost $900 million last year. Why should Dish have to take losses like that just so you can get YES?

Steinbrenner wants YES to be in a basic package, and IMO that's completely unreasonable given what he wants to charge for it. Dish offered reasonable alternatives, and he turned them all down. So because Steinbrenner is because a jerk about it, Dish should just carry the channel and lose money on it? That's just stupid.

Dennis

cnsf

03-13-03, 08:34 AM

Dennis,

Well, for one, NY is the largest DMA in the country and poses a great profit potential for Dish. Indirectly, costs will not only be covered on it by the increase in revenue, but surpassed easily; hence the term "loss leader."

D* profits are an inappropriate agrument. If you read the numbers in detail and with a financial background, the loss was due to extraordinary charges, not regular operating loss. This has been discussed in detail in many older threads.

If Dish decided to make FSNY and MSG additional pay channels, then I would agree with you. Absent of that, it is only a smart business move to not be the only TV provider in NY not carrying YES. Using the personas of George and Charlie only makes for an emotional argument, and I guarantee this is all about business on all sides.

This issue will soon be moot as my bet is on Dish carrying YES by game 1 of the season, March 31. And no increase to non-NY subs. You may see the NY locals package go up a buck or so.

Cory

Mike123abc

03-13-03, 09:41 AM

The problem is that Dish likes to have flat pricing nationwide. If they have to start putting little asterisks on the the brochures for the cities they have to charge more because of a RSN, it will drive them and their sales people crazy.

Dish will probably pick up YE$ now and absorbe the cost increase. But, when other teams start doing the same thing after seeing the success of YE$, an overall price increase would probably be forced in. Especially if YE$ does go up to $7/sub in 2007 as cablevision was claiming it would go up to.

motjes2

03-13-03, 10:11 AM

An increase will eventually happen whether we like it or not (whether is today or a few months from today). The cost of life does not goes down but tends to stay at given level or increase (basic economics). That's life! Add YES and be done with it.

P.S. Charlie would have loved to grab the NFL Ticket whether he would make money or not.

Greg Bimson

03-13-03, 10:33 AM

Direc has been carrying sports as a loss leader for several years now (the Sunday ticket being the primary one) and they lost $900 million last year.DirecTV didn't lose $900 million. Hughes did. Big difference.

Hughes also includes Hughes Network Systems, DirecTV Latin America (which bleeds money like a stuck pig), DirecTV DSL (which had taken a good part of those losses to be closed), and DirecWay (which incurs losses).

cnsf

03-13-03, 10:52 AM

Greg, spot on.

Ronmort

03-13-03, 10:58 AM

Directv is still in business, and is doing fine. They must especially enjoy counting $600 million from Charlie. Gee, I wonder what our share of that fiasco is in our monthly bills.

I know when I started down the DBS trail, I have spent a lot more money for tv than I ever did for cable. I have AT150, HBO-Max package, sports channels, NBA LP, etc. I am certainly not going to worry about some token payment for YES. I bet some of the money I fork over goes to someone else's favorite channel, which I may never watch. That's OK with me!

By the way, I wish we did have to pay for the programming on RSNs because I would pay the going rate instead of having to read these ridiculous statements from these know-it-alls with their questionable facts and figures.

I am actually complainging because otherwise I like Dish Network, and I don't want to go to another service. It's not that I'm unhappy with the rest of the offerings, I just feel I should get what the local cable customers and the Directv customers get for relatively the same prices. I don't think this is any way unreasonable.

cnsf

03-13-03, 11:35 AM

Ronmort.... Hear! Hear!

dbronstein

03-13-03, 12:16 PM

How many subs will Dish lose at this point if they have YES this season? Most of the people who really wanted it left last year.

And you guys still haven't explained why it's all Charlie's fault they don't have it and Steinbrenner is completely blameless.

Dennis

DCSholtis

03-13-03, 12:24 PM

According to what is being reported now it depends on what you have in your Cablevision area as to IF youd pay monthly for it.....Example I guess in certain areas subs pay for MSG and/or FSN NY....so you would pay a fee for YES as well...but if you were in an area where the other two were on basic.....YES would be added to that tier.

cnsf

03-13-03, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by dbronstein
How many subs will Dish lose at this point if they have YES this season? Most of the people who really wanted it left last year.

And you guys still haven't explained why it's all Charlie's fault they don't have it and Steinbrenner is completely blameless.

Dennis

Not true. Many subs stuck it out until this year. Count me as one who left for that reason...this year. I gave them over a year to make a deal.

No one is laying blame. It's really the fault of both sides for not being able to compromise. The argument should be business based, not blame based.

Dish will carry YES. The question now is how they will price it (or not price it). I see a "we managed to get YES and have tweaked our costs so there will be no impact on your monthly bill" for non-NY subs. For NY subs, I see a $2 increase for locals.

If I'm wrong, too bad, so sad.....

ClearCom

03-13-03, 02:11 PM

Charlie does not want to be the lone standout with YES, so expect it soon, and expect a cost increase that will only irritate current DISH customers, again!
We have now lost the edge in selling DTV product, unless Cablevision raises the prices to compensate for YES.
Without HSI we will go down in flames!!

mjschuyler

03-13-03, 05:33 PM

The reason YES wants to be on the basic cable tier or satellite package is so they get a fee from every subscriber in that market for the service even if they do not watch Yes network programming. I do watch sports mostly Hockey. I subscribe to NHL Center Ice so I can see almost any game that is broadcast. I do watch an occassional Red Sox game but I am not interested in the Yankees.

The fees will enable the Yankees to keep buying up the best players and force all regional sports networks to follow the YES plan. This will be the end of "free" sports networks.

motjes2

03-13-03, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by mjschuyler
The reason YES wants to be on the basic cable tier or satellite package is so they get a fee from every subscriber in that market for the service even if they do not watch Yes network programming. I do watch sports mostly Hockey. I subscribe to NHL Center Ice so I can see almost any game that is broadcast. I do watch an occassional Red Sox game but I am not interested in the Yankees.

The fees will enable the Yankees to keep buying up the best players and force all regional sports networks to follow the YES plan. This will be the end of "free" sports networks.

"free" sports networks--are you kidding me? The last time I checked msg and foxsportnet was not free. Let me ask you if you the situation was reversed and your regional channel that provided your hockey games was not offered by Dish, wouldn't be you asking for the same thing? It is only fair and square that a regional sport network such as YES that currently carries not only the Yankees but the New Jersey Nets plus will carry the New Jersey Devils next year be carried by Dish. MSG and FOXSPORTNET are in the same region as YES. This is not about how I feel about the Yankees. This is more about being fair to a population of people that in a DMA as big as NY will not be able to watch any of these three franchises.

mjschuyler

03-14-03, 12:38 AM

When I started with E* in 1996 only one regional sports net was allowed. CT could have either MSG or NESN. I choose NESN because at that time the Hartford Whalers were on it. We were also allowed NE FOX when it broke from NESN.

I also subscribe to the regional sports package ($4.99) that has most of the rest of the Fox sports nets. Most live games are blacked out so I used to record rerun games on my Dishplayer.

When the Whalers left CT the NY Rangers moved their minor league team to Hartford. I asked E* to change NESN for MSG the CSR said I could have both. I am not sure if this is correct but I have had both since 1997.

Why not go back to one regional sports net included in the AT100 or higher packages and charge $2.00 for any other local sports net in your local area?

Since I get MSG, NESN, and FOXNE my bill would go up $4.00 unless I drop two of them. A subscriber could choose from either MSG, NESN, NE FOX or YES in their AT100 or higher package. This way if you want sports you would pay but not force all subs to support all the local nets.

I subscribe to NHL Center Ice so I can see almost all the NHL games. E* also carries the NBA. Why can't E* carry MLB & NFL are these leagues asking so much that there is no profit for E*? Does D* have an exclusive? It would seem with over 8 million subs E* would be a source of much need money for these leagues. If only 1 million subscribed @$169 each wouldn't this help cut some of their loses?

motjes2

03-14-03, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by mjschuyler
When I started with E* in 1996 only one regional sports net was allowed. CT could have either MSG or NESN. I choose NESN because at that time the Hartford Whalers were on it. We were also allowed NE FOX when it broke from NESN.

I also subscribe to the regional sports package ($4.99) that has most of the rest of the Fox sports nets. Most live games are blacked out so I used to record rerun games on my Dishplayer.

When the Whalers left CT the NY Rangers moved their minor league team to Hartford. I asked E* to change NESN for MSG the CSR said I could have both. I am not sure if this is correct but I have had both since 1997.

Why not go back to one regional sports net included in the AT100 or higher packages and charge $2.00 for any other local sports net in your local area?

Since I get MSG, NESN, and FOXNE my bill would go up $4.00 unless I drop two of them. A subscriber could choose from either MSG, NESN, NE FOX or YES in their AT100 or higher package. This way if you want sports you would pay but not force all subs to support all the local nets.

I subscribe to NHL Center Ice so I can see almost all the NHL games. E* also carries the NBA. Why can't E* carry MLB & NFL are these leagues asking so much that there is no profit for E*? Does D* have an exclusive? It would seem with over 8 million subs E* would be a source of much need money for these leagues. If only 1 million subscribed @$169 each wouldn't this help cut some of their loses?

If this is the case, being able to carry only the regional channel you want, then it is a way out of those that do not want to see a fee for YES. But I am afraid that it does not work that way. Once you locked into a package, the package determines the channels you are going to watch. This is my understanding but correct me if I am wrong.

As far as MLB and NFL. E* would love to carry both of these but D* has exclusive coverage to MLB (for small dish) until 2004. The NFL package is exclusive to D* for more years. Charlie is not dumb and he knows that these packages brings more subscribers and more $$$.

Scott Greczkowski

03-14-03, 07:37 AM

From www.cablevision.com:

Cablevision's plans for carrying YES include the following key elements:

Cablevision plans to offer a comprehensive regional sports tier, allowing customers to elect whether to receive the YES Network, MSG Network and FOX Sports Net New York for a low combined monthly price of $4.95. Customers may also choose to receive each of the networks individually as an a la carte option for a monthly price of $1.95 per channel. These choices will be available to all Cablevision customers, including Broadcast Basic subscribers. Cablevision customers who do not choose to receive the YES Network or New York's other regional sports networks will not be forced to pay for them.

The YES Network will also be added to existing Cablevision premium programming packages that currently include regional sports services. Cablevision's premium programming package rates will not change. This includes Cablevision's iO Silver and iO Gold digital cable packages. More than one million Cablevision customers in the New York metropolitan area currently choose to receive such premium packages.

To make the service as affordable as possible for all interested customers, Cablevision is charging customers less than what it is paying the YES Network.

Cablevision will offer the YES Network in the same manner it offers MSG Network and FOX Sports Net New York to its customers.

Cablevision will make the YES Network available to its customers no later than March 31, in time for the opening of the 2003 baseball season and the final few weeks of the 2002-2003 basketball season. The company will release more particulars as the plans for launch are finalized throughout the month.